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Author Topic: N gauge vs OO gauge  (Read 1909 times)

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Offline KR Models

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N gauge vs OO gauge
« on: March 20, 2019, 12:24:10 AM »
We have noticed that there are a lot of manufacturers that don't make an N gauge version of their OO model.  We would like to change that philosophy.  If we make a OO gauge model, then we would like to make an N gauge version too.  Otherwise, you will miss out on one.  However, if there is no demand then it's not commercially viable.  We only have 15% of what we need to make an N gauge version of the GT3.
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Offline rusticged

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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2019, 08:07:11 AM »
These things take time, particularly when people are already committed to other crowdfunded projects. Also, for some reason, I don't think messages get around the N Gauge fraternity as quickly as they do in 00. Let's hope you have the patience to keep the EOIs open for quite a while.
Cheers,
Ged.
Rusticged

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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2019, 08:23:50 AM »
I think N gauge is brilliant and allows lots of layout designs that are not feasible in 00. Unfortunately the reality is that the N gauge market is much smaller than 00. We get less models simply because it is so much harder to be sure of a return on investment.

If the King project can't get sufficient backing (in people putting their money where their mouth is) then it isn't surprising that this project hasn't either. Somehow we need a way to encourage more people into N gauge. At the moment the shift is very much in the opposite direction.
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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2019, 08:55:16 AM »
We have noticed that there are a lot of manufacturers that don't make an N gauge version of their OO model.  We would like to change that philosophy.  If we make a OO gauge model, then we would like to make an N gauge version too.  Otherwise, you will miss out on one.  However, if there is no demand then it's not commercially viable.  We only have 15% of what we need to make an N gauge version of the GT3.

That's a great statement, but unfortunately it's a flawed concept.

If you really want to produce an N version of your OO models then you've got to find a model that's far more appealing to the consumer.

Over the years there have a countless 'wishlists' published, and I don't recall seeing the GT3 on any of them. The first I was aware of the loco at all was seeing your stand at Warley last year. Whilst the 'keener' N gauge modeller may have been aware of the prototype, you've got to appeal as much, if not more in the case of N gauge, to the 'average' modeller who wants something they can relate to, or at least looks interesting or spectacular.

The GT3 doesn't. At first sight I thought it looked bloody ugly. It's not elegant like an A4 or a Coronation, it's not seen anywhere like a Black 5 or The Flying Scotsman, it's not in living memory like a 52 or a Deltic, and it's not interesting like The Twins or the Leader.

I wish you every success, as the more manufacturers the better, but I think you need to pick your battles.

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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2019, 09:08:55 AM »
Iím not sure thatís quite fair. Few people (there will be some) will buy a model purely because it looks interesting despite knowing nothing about it.

People do know about GT3, and may want a model of it. Just because you hadnít heard of GT3 doesnít inherently make it a poor choice. Yes itís a bit of an esoteric prototype, but so are lots of things, ironically most modellers seek the more esoteric models rather than the mundane, because variety is interesting.

Iím not interested in GT3 any more than I am the LMS twins or a Deltic, but I can see why it would be a success. Personally I think a bigger issue is that youíre a total unknown and people are naturally risk averse. OO gauge being so much bigger means that if only 25% of people are prepared to take a punt thereís still a market, not so in N.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 10:01:54 AM by njee20 »

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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2019, 09:27:03 AM »
I don't agree I think GT3 is an excellent choice, unusual colour fits in with the popular transition period and is within my living memory which the twins were not, and I hope that you have my expression of interest, but I cannot check.

BUT I think the N gauge modellers are just either uninterested in forthcoming projects or completely cynical after all the promises over the years that have not been fulfilled. I doubt that two major manufacturers in OO have promised the same loco and then both withdrawn like the J72 in N and this goes back for years to the days when Dapol promised a 205 that has never appeared ( I must get my half completed kit out to finish it off). I have already got into trouble over the Cavalex wagon which does not seem to be going anywhere now. I know several modellers who have N gauge exhibition layouts and if I were to put this to them as I have with other project they will ask "When is it due?" At present I have £250 invested in forthcoming products and have nothing to show for that money and no real idea when I will have something to show for the investment. How many others are in a similar position?

Offline Thorpe Parva

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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2019, 09:44:05 AM »
GT3 has always been a wishlist item for me as I saw the loco in the flesh during its trials on the GC & it is a perfect fit for my planned GC early 60s layout.

I think one problem faced by KRM is that many N Gauge modellers will be unaware of the proposed model. Not everyone uses Facebook and/or participates in forums. Given that the NGS has around 5,000 Members then an ad in the NGS Magazine might have more impact.

I really hope that this goes ahead.

David

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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2019, 10:09:53 AM »
I have already got into trouble over the Cavalex wagon which does not seem to be going anywhere now. I know several modellers who have N gauge exhibition layouts and if I were to put this to them as I have with other project they will ask "When is it due?" At present I have £250 invested in forthcoming products and have nothing to show for that money and no real idea when I will have something to show for the investment. How many others are in a similar position?

Whoíd be a manufacturer eh?!  No idea how you ďgot into troubleĒ, but give Cavalex a chance, things arenít instant, not sure itís fair to say anything of theirs isnít going anywhere.

Iím heavily Ďinvestedí (terrible choice of word really) in products that are in various stages of gestation, well over £1000, but Iím happy with that. No oneís forcing you to buy toy trains. Iím sure if you ask any of the manufacturers with whom you have orders you can have your money back.

Clearly crowdfunding models is a popular mechanism at the moment, Iím not  sure itíll last forever, but itís undeniable that itís helping deliver models youíre not otherwise going to see. If youíre not comfortable with it, then donít back projects.

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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2019, 10:38:15 AM »
BUT I think the N gauge modellers are just either uninterested in forthcoming projects or completely cynical after all the promises over the years that have not been fulfilled.

Hi

Or have absolutely no interest in the specific offered model.

I personally have cut right back on rule one purchases to concentrate on stock actually required for my planned projects.

Cheers

Paul
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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2019, 11:27:04 AM »
GT3 has always been a wishlist item for me as I saw the loco in the flesh during its trials on the GC & it is a perfect fit for my planned GC early 60s layout.

I think one problem faced by KRM is that many N Gauge modellers will be unaware of the proposed model. Not everyone uses Facebook and/or participates in forums. Given that the NGS has around 5,000 Members then an ad in the NGS Magazine might have more impact.

I really hope that this goes ahead.

David

we have 6600 members and a significant crossover between the groups.

it would be worth an email to the Ngauge group at Groups.io ??
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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2019, 11:48:21 AM »
We have noticed that there are a lot of manufacturers that don't make an N gauge version of their OO model.  We would like to change that philosophy.  If we make a OO gauge model, then we would like to make an N gauge version too.  Otherwise, you will miss out on one.  However, if there is no demand then it's not commercially viable.  We only have 15% of what we need to make an N gauge version of the GT3.

Just a suggestion: I see you've started two threads here on the same subject, neither of which contain information which would be very useful for anyone who might be interested:

  • Who are "KR Models"?
  • Where is their website and the form for expressions of interest?
  • What is a "GT3"?

Please don't assume that everyone knows what a "GT3" is - my own mental bookmark reads "Gas Turbine??? Something early BR, experimental". Your website (which I note someone else provided a link to, otherwise I may not have made it that far) says:

Quote
The GT3 was designed and built in 1958 by English Electric at their Vulcan Foundry works in Vulcan Village, Lancashire.  Built on a strengthened steam chassis and tender with a Gas Turbine power source.  The locomotive had a designed maximum speed of 90 mph (140 km/h), weighed 123.5 long tons (125.5 t), and was painted in a lined Beech Leaf Brown Livery, earning it the nickname "The Chocolate Zephyr" amongst railway enthusiasts. Underframes, grilles and the front access and cab doors were painted Brunswick Green with lettering and lining in Orange.

So where did it run? How long was it in service? What kind of trains did it haul? Was it successful? Is it preserved? Where can I find more information?

Sure, I could find out that information without much difficulty, but the more you provide, the more chance you have of piquing interest and maybe triggering someone's Rule One impulse.

Just saying, like.
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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2019, 11:57:47 AM »
As someone who has been in the same position as Keith not that long ago, I don't think the answer is particularly simple.

Some factors to think about:

- is the prototype interesting enough to get sufficient customers interested (one-off prototypes have an inherent problem that customers are only ever likely to buy one)? ie is there a market?
- N gauge depending on who you listen to is somewhere between 15-20+% of the size of the OO gauge market.
- is the marketing being done to the right people in the right way?
- when you're starting out people like to know: who they are dealing with and what experience is available to produce a decent model without going bust midway through the project. Tell people who is doing the manufacturing and give examples of models they've already made (doesn't have to be British).

I'm sure there are more factors that I've missed out but the fundamental one is the first one ie do enough people actually want a model of XXX? We've all got ideas that we think would be brilliant but the reality is for a loco unless 1000 people agree with you then you're a bit stuck (or fewer if you can sell more than one)!

Cheers, Mike



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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2019, 12:26:56 PM »
For example, the RHTT that Hattons are about to release in OO is not available in N.  Now they are way more established than KR Models.  Why are they not making it in N, is purely because of the lack of customers.  The reason behind any EOI in N is to generate interest.  Yes, it was a bold move to launch a company with an experimental prototype loco.  Was it the smartest move, time will tell.  As of today, it's a very small success.

Here is the link again for the EOI for the GT3 in N.  https://krmodels.co.uk/gt3-gas-turbine   Please use Google Chrome, the link doesn't like Apple or Microsoft Edge to open it, not sure why my tech guy has no idea either. 
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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2019, 12:34:00 PM »
Here is the link again for the EOI for the GT3 in N.  https://krmodels.co.uk/gt3-gas-turbine   Please use Google Chrome, the link doesn't like Apple or Microsoft Edge to open it, not sure why my tech guy has no idea either.

Works fine with Firefox.

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Re: N gauge vs OO gauge
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2019, 12:47:23 PM »
i read about Hattons producing the RHTT in OO gauge but not N gauge,i have a lovely N gauge model of this produced privately,i was going to put it up for sale,perhaps i better keep it for now it may appreciate in value ;)

 

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