Change to authentification of online payments in the UK and EU

[The Q]

I assume that a retailer, who normally works from home and therefore will have to use this two stage system. Will when attending a show, use a machine and having the card present and typing in the pin in also counts as two stage clearance..

Meanwhile there is another very good reason to pay cash, you can slowly accumulate modelling tokens, so that when you come home from a show you can claim... I got it a huge discount dear...

[njee20]

It's funny isn't it, because I'd never view cash as the "easy alternative"; I can carry one tiny piece of plastic which will enable me to buy a coffee at the station, my ticket, my lunch, and do some shopping. I don't have to visit ATMs, it doesn't run out, it doesn't have incorrect denominations, nor do I have to worry that someone won't have the correct change, it doesn't take up lots of space in my pocket/wallet, I don't have to rifle through a whole stack to get the right one. Faffing with apps consists of moving money around between accounts which I'd want to do anyway - I don't want my savings in cash under the mattress.

It's obviously a cultural difference with Japan (particularly the notion that losing cash will result in your getting in back - no chance in the UK, I can't comprehend the idea it's preferable to lose a wad of cash versus dropping a card which is frozen after one phone call, or a tap in an app), and I expect a generational one in the UK, but I personally can think of no reason why cash is easier (although I fully accept that cash will still work without any infrastructure as that's relevant to Japan).

Our cleaner used to want cash, and having to find £22 every time was a massive pain. She invariably got £25 one visit and £20 the next, or £30 one visit and £20 the subsequent two visits, which actually cost me more. Now I can go into my app and pay her £22 every single time in less time than it takes to get my wallet, assuming I even had the cash. There's one ATM in my village, which is regularly empty, because of which the supermarket only do up to £20 cashback to limit demand, so if I didn't have the cash I'd have to drive a 14 mile round trip to go and get some, which would then still only be either £20 or £30, leading to the exact same problem above.

I assume that a retailer, who normally works from home and therefore will have to use this two stage system. Will when attending a show, use a machine and having the card present and typing in the pin in also counts as two stage clearance..

Meanwhile there is another very good reason to pay cash, you can slowly accumulate modelling tokens, so that when you come home from a show you can claim... I got it a huge discount dear...

I just don't lie to my wife, I find that easier!

[PaulCheffus]

I just don't lie to my wife, I find that easier!

Hi

Neither do I.

My wife years ago made a comment that "If you never lie you never have to remember anything"

Cheers

Paul

[joe cassidy]

In spite of the growth of new methods of payment, and anti-cash lobbying by the likes of Visa and Mastercard, the number of banknotes in circulation is increasing by at least 3% per year on a global basis.

The demand for cash is driven by growth of GDP, population, and currently by low interest rates - why keep money in the bank if it's not earning interest ?

The preference for cash is definitely a cultural phenomonen. Cash is the preferred payment method in Germany for example.

Finally, be aware that if cash is done away with then the government will be able to impose negative interest rates on money in your bank account !

Best regards,


Joe

[njee20]

I imagine there are vast regional variations for sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if cash were becoming more popular globally. Of course that's not the same as the number of notes in circulation being greater.

The German credit market is definitely different to ours, for a country one would consider similar, they don't have the casual use of credit that we tend to.

The government can already impose negative interest rates if they want. But they don't. They could do all sort of things, but I don't really see the point in worrying about it.

[joe cassidy]

The government can already impose negative interest rates if they want.

And you can still withdraw cash from your bank account if you want to. For now.

[ntpntpntp]

Standing behind some girlie in the queue to post a parcel..... "oh me applepay don't work, I'll 'ave to go ousside and try to get it workin', I never 'ave no cash" and this is after the guy behind the counter has already started the process and it's tricky to back it out.        Aaaaargh!!!!!   

Modern tech all very well but for heaven's sake have some cash on you!   

[njee20]

Or a card. I'm not a massive fan of ApplePay, have used it a couple of times in emergencies when I've not got my wallet, but it's not really any easier than a card I don't think. For every example of someone failing to get that work there are a lot more examples of "sorry I've only got a £20", or "hang on, I've got the change here somewhere", "do you want the 20p?" etc etc.

Joe - you could still move money elsewhere, you don't need to hide it all under your matress in cash, which is potentially worthless in the event there's been some colossal economic destabilisation which has led the population to withdraw all their cash en masse. But that's right into the realms of paranoia.

Cash will continue to exist for a very long time, but its use within the UK will likely continue to decline IMO.

[Jon898]

Two thoughts:

1.  If I lose my (non-existent) smart phone linked to a credit/debit card and a thief finds it and uses it (yes, how many PIN's are 1234?), the bank will send a code to the phone (text or email)...how is that secure?

2.  I went to log onto my online bank this morning and they wanted to have me change the security questions and answers.  The drop-down menu of questions for the three challenges consisted of 10 possible questions each, 9 of 10 of which were things that are public record and/or obtainable online (paternal grandfather's middle name, city of birth, city of marriage, etc.)...how secure is that?

Jon

[Bob Tidbury]

Cash only for  me ,  cash or debit card  for my wife .
We don't have a credit card or do online banking and never will as long as we can hold out and it becomes the only method .
It's the safest way .
Bob Tidbury

[Newportnobby]

There are still some establishments in the area who refuse a card payment for anything less than a fiver. Whether this is legal or not I have no clue.

[njee20]

Two thoughts:

1.  If I lose my (non-existent) smart phone linked to a credit/debit card and a thief finds it and uses it (yes, how many PIN's are 1234?), the bank will send a code to the phone (text or email)...how is that secure?

2.  I went to log onto my online bank this morning and they wanted to have me change the security questions and answers.  The drop-down menu of questions for the three challenges consisted of 10 possible questions each, 9 of 10 of which were things that are public record and/or obtainable online (paternal grandfather's middle name, city of birth, city of marriage, etc.)...how secure is that?

1. what do you mean they'll send a code to the phone? One call to your provider gets your phone blocked, if your PIN isn't 1234 (and I don't know anyone's whose is) then many phones will erase all content after 10(ish) consecutive failed attempts. Furthermore every banking app I've got requires a second code to get into, and you can't set up new payees without secondary authentication requiring a bank card. So, what's the concern...?

2. obviously that depends on the provider, it's often first car/first school/favourite place etc here, which are more personal, but again, there should be provision in place if you repeatedly get those questions wrong, and if someone's sufficiently dedicated to look at that information up then good luck to them! I'll just claim against my bank for any fraudulent transactions.

Cash only for  me ,  cash or debit card  for my wife .
We don't have a credit card or do online banking and never will as long as we can hold out and it becomes the only method .
It's the safest way .

Really glad you're happy with your chosen methods, but I disagree that cash is safer. As an end customer you're far more likely to have cash stolen (for which there's no recourse whatsoever) than lose out to any sort of card fraud (for which you'll get the money back anyway), and you're losing a lot of protection that comes with debit, or particularly credit card purchasing.

[njee20]

There are still some establishments in the area who refuse a card payment for anything less than a fiver. Whether this is legal or not I have no clue.

Yep, totally legal. Minimum thresholds are not a charge.

[daffy]

Quote from njee20:

.....if your PIN isn't 1234 (and I don't know anyone's whose is)

Er, so how many PIN codes of other people do you know?   Aren't they supposed to be private and individual?

[njee20]

I've seen enough people put PINs into their phones to know that I've never seen anyone type 1234. Why would you? It's literally no less effort.

But you know it's a "personal identification number", not private or individual!