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Author Topic: Class 68 speed matching  (Read 693 times)

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Offline Graham

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Class 68 speed matching
« on: January 25, 2019, 05:24:31 AM »
hopefully someone can help me with this. Have spent the afternoon trawling the forum to see if there was any previous threads which could help without success.

I have a pair of class 68's which I am trying to double head. they are 68001 and 002, when running on DC they are really well matched, put them on the same circuit about 6in apart and run them round approx. 6 scale miles before they close up, with 002 being the slightly faster of the 2.

However when I run them on DCC 002 runs a lot slower than 001, markedly so, when running 001 on speed setting 20 (128 step) I have to set 002 to speed setting 33 to attain the same speed.

I can then put them into the same double head consist and run them but as would be expected they are trying to run at different speeds.

Anyone any ideas of how I can get them running the same.

cheers
Graham

Online njee20

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2019, 08:00:10 AM »
Same decoders in both?

Do you have JMRI or anything similar? You need to alter the speed curve of one to match the other, most easily done with something like Decoder Pro using POM.

Offline Graham

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2019, 08:13:16 AM »
Hi njee20

yes they both have the Dapol Imperium chips in them and I don't have JMRI, but it is looking increasingly like I need to get this. I am only just starting to dabble in DCC, thanks really to the Pendolino's which persuaded me to go down this path.

I have chipped some 25 loco's at the moment and bought a Prodigy Advance. in my reading it is looking like I need a Sprog2 or 3 plus s/w to achieve the full potential of DCC.
 cheers
Graham

Offline Paul-H

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2019, 09:10:44 AM »
Hi

To start with you could try slowing down the faster one of the two by adjusting the value of CV5  and probably CV6, if the Imperium decoders support it.

Read CV5 on both to ensure they set the same then start reducing it on the faster one till it matches, CV6 can be used to adjust the speed curves mid point for finer tweaking.

I was lucky with my 68's as they had the same sound decoders in and were matched out of the box but needed to do the above on my Midland Pullman which had sound at one end one standard decoder at the other, although that one needed more settings to get the back one to emulate the active braking on the sound card but the basic as outlined above still got a good speed match.

Paul
Please excuse any poor spelling, I am Dyslexic, just think yourself lucky if you can actually read what I typed.

All tiepin as bean spell chequed on mi Pea Sea

Offline jpendle

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2019, 06:21:02 PM »
If you decide to buy a new DCC controller then you should look at the Z21. This supports speed matching by creating a traction profile for each loco and then the controller does the speed matching when in a consist, there is NO decoder programming needed.

You can also drive each loco separately. E.G drive loco 1 to some arbitrary location, drive loco 2 so that it couples up with loco 1. Select the consist and drive them both away together.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline Graham

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2019, 08:51:25 PM »
thanks for the pointers one and all, will keep playing testing and let you know the results. As for buying a new controller, given I only took delivery of the Prodigy 2 weeks ago I don't think this will happen for a while.

Offline Graham

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2019, 10:43:48 PM »
well, I have done some more testing and have found that when running both units on the 28 step setting all runs fine, the problem only occurs when running on the 128 step running. I have been able to double head and both run in sync.

will have to investigate the cv settings more thoroughly.

thanks for the pointers gents.

cheers
Graham

Online Merrylee

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 09:51:57 PM »
Wouldn't it be great if Dapol brought out some as dummy versions.

Then no problem double heading, top n tailing.

Ron

Offline Paul-H

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2019, 10:32:17 PM »
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Dapol had stopped or were going to stop producing dummies as they had to sell them quite a bit cheaper than the powered model, often around half the price but because of the need for lights, they were almost complete models which in many cases were only missing the motor which was sold  on it's own for around 15.  So sneaky buyers were buying dummies and putting a motor in and saving about 40% of the cost of a motored unit.

It was a case of try and sell a dummy at almost the cost of the motored model or stop selling them, and I understand they chose the latter option..

As always happy to be proven wrong. :thumbsup:
Please excuse any poor spelling, I am Dyslexic, just think yourself lucky if you can actually read what I typed.

All tiepin as bean spell chequed on mi Pea Sea

Offline nookfield

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2019, 11:08:42 PM »
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Dapol had stopped or were going to stop producing dummies as they had to sell them quite a bit cheaper than the powered model, often around half the price but because of the need for lights, they were almost complete models which in many cases were only missing the motor which was sold  on it's own for around 15.  So sneaky buyers were buying dummies and putting a motor in and saving about 40% of the cost of a motored unit.

It was a case of try and sell a dummy at almost the cost of the motored model or stop selling them, and I understand they chose the latter option..

As always happy to be proven wrong. :thumbsup:

No that's not correct. The difference in manufacturing cost between a dummy and a motorised version is small

Joel (Dapol MD) explains it in this Dapol Digest post

https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/class-142/5499-class-142-decorated-samples?p=5563#post5563

Offline nookfield

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2019, 11:11:13 PM »
Wouldn't it be great if Dapol brought out some as dummy versions.

Then no problem double heading, top n tailing.

Ron

Just remove the motor or the drive shafts

Offline Portpatrick

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 11:27:07 PM »
I have the 2 Scotrail versions.  Not into DCC but must try them both out together on the club's continuous layout.

Offline Paul-H

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2019, 11:28:49 AM »
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Dapol had stopped or were going to stop producing dummies as they had to sell them quite a bit cheaper than the powered model, often around half the price but because of the need for lights, they were almost complete models which in many cases were only missing the motor which was sold  on it's own for around 15.  So sneaky buyers were buying dummies and putting a motor in and saving about 40% of the cost of a motored unit.

It was a case of try and sell a dummy at almost the cost of the motored model or stop selling them, and I understand they chose the latter option..

As always happy to be proven wrong. :thumbsup:



No that's not correct. The difference in manufacturing cost between a dummy and a motorised version is small

Joel (Dapol MD) explains it in this Dapol Digest post

https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/class-142/5499-class-142-decorated-samples?p=5563#post5563

I thought that was what I was saying!!!!!!!!!
Please excuse any poor spelling, I am Dyslexic, just think yourself lucky if you can actually read what I typed.

All tiepin as bean spell chequed on mi Pea Sea

Offline nookfield

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2019, 05:01:55 PM »
I thought that was what I was saying!!!!!!!!!

you need to get your keyboard checked out as you seem to have a sticky exclamation mark.

Offline davidinyork

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Re: Class 68 speed matching
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2019, 05:58:52 PM »
I thought I remembered reading somewhere that Dapol had stopped or were going to stop producing dummies as they had to sell them quite a bit cheaper than the powered model, often around half the price but because of the need for lights, they were almost complete models which in many cases were only missing the motor which was sold  on it's own for around 15.  So sneaky buyers were buying dummies and putting a motor in and saving about 40% of the cost of a motored unit.

It was a case of try and sell a dummy at almost the cost of the motored model or stop selling them, and I understand they chose the latter option..

As always happy to be proven wrong. :thumbsup:

No that's not correct. The difference in manufacturing cost between a dummy and a motorised version is small

Joel (Dapol MD) explains it in this Dapol Digest post

https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-gauge-models/class-142/5499-class-142-decorated-samples?p=5563#post5563

I was never really sure of the need for lights in the dummy locos (can see the need for DMUs)- in most cases the loco would be used between the leading loco and stock (so no lights needed), or dead on the back (where a tail lamp is normally used). The earlier dummies didn't have lights or circuit boards (66, 67), it was only with later ones such as the 86 and 27 where they started including them, and it must have pushed the production cost up a bit.

 

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