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Poll

Would you be interested in helping to Crowdfund a Catfish engineering ballast hooper?

Yes, I'd pledge for 1 or 2.
7 (12.1%)
Yes I'd pledge for 3 or 4.
20 (34.5%)
Yes I'd pledge for 5-10.
20 (34.5%)
Yes I'd pledge for more than 10.
0 (0%)
No, I wouldn't support this model.
11 (19%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: February 06, 2019, 04:20:26 PM

Author Topic: Catfish - Crowdfunding Suggestion for Revolution Trains &/or Sonic Models  (Read 1224 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NGS-PO

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Poll now added.

After building several designs of small ballast hoppers in its early years, BR settled on the 19-ton ‘Catfish’ and 24-ton ‘Dogfish’ from 1955 onwards for its fleet of PW engineering hoppers in that size range.

The first of these to appear was a batch of Catfish built by Metro-Cammell to lot number 2682.  These are sometimes quoted as being built in 1953 but this is most likely the lot issue date, whilst actual construction took place in 1955.

Built to diagram 1/586, the Catfish had a shallow but fairly conventional looking hopper with a single chute discharging between the rails, unlike the later, and larger capacity, Dogfish which released it's load either side of the "four foot". At one end of the 14ft wheelbase wagon was a platform with a single door control wheel, the vacuum cylinder being mounted at the opposite end.

Over the subsequent six years, a further five lots were built, all by Metro-Cammell and all to the same diagram number, although later deliveries had roller bearings (instead of plain) and Oleo buffers (instead of the self-contained type). Wagons that were overhauled or repaired would also have been upgraded in the same way.

Livery was initially black, evolving to olive drab and finally grey with a yellow top band (“dutch”).  Under TOPS these wagons were coded ZEV-A with design codes ZE500A-C being issued to cover minor differences
Outwith those mentioned above, the Catfish underwent very few changes during their long careers.  In the early 1990s at least four Catfish were recoded ZSV (design codes ZS152A/B) falthough the reason for this is not known (the ZSx code covers types such as crane runners, match wagons and brake force vehicles.)

By 1999 there were still 289 ZEVs listed on TOPS, although by this date Catfish were all either withdrawn or in ”no maintenance” pool use.  In 2001 the numbers in stock had dropped to 63 ZEV (all stored).

Diagram D1/586 and were numbered:

1955:

Lot 2682/3 DB992531 - 650
Lot 2775 DB992651-710


1958:

Lot 2929 DB993508 -

566 built. (152 were still in service at 2/94)

(These were all built with oil axleboxes & self-contained buffers)

1960/61:

Lots 3039/3331 (DB983376 576/627)

These had Oleo buffers & roller bearings.

896 built (353 were still in service 2/94)

Catfish were originally allocated to the LMR, but from the late 60s spread onto the ScR & ER. Some were loaned to the SR in the 70s. Catfish worked with most other types of ballast hoppers, but were rarely seen in SR and WR areas.

Pros - Numerous examples produced, with minimal differences between batches
        - Three official liveries
        - Appropriate for layouts set from BR Early Crest through to late 90's post-privatisation
        - Very suitable for preserved railway layouts
        - Would compliment Dapol's Dogfish, NGS' Seacow, Revolution Sturgeon, DJM's Mermaid, NGS'/DJM's Shark (particularly the
           shark since the Catfish drops ballast in between the rails), etc
        - Equally realistic in ones or twos in a train or in a long rake
        - Despite being similar to the Dapol Dogfish, the latter is out of production now and Dapol have said it is uneconomic for them
           to assemble their current tooling the in current climate.

Cons - Struggling to think of any......... (watch this space)
        - Possibly too similar to the Dapol Dogfish (see above)


Best

Scott
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 04:37:10 PM by NGS-PO »
PLEASE NOTE: Unless where obviously posting on behalf of the NGS, all posts and views are my own and not connected/endorsed by the Society.

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Offline NGS-PO

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PLEASE NOTE: Unless where obviously posting on behalf of the NGS, all posts and views are my own and not connected/endorsed by the Society.

“Having anxiety and depression is like being scared and tired at the same time. It's the fear of failure, but no urge to be productive. It's wanting friends, but hate socializing. It's wanting to be alone, but not wanting to be lonely. It's feeling everything at once then feeling paralyzingly numb.”

We're not crazy, or insane, we're just people living with a condition.

Offline NeMo

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Mixing Catfish and Dogfish in the same train seemed to happen a lot in real life, so I think this proposal is a welcome one.

On the other hand, they do look something like a simpler Dogfish, so perhaps a possibility for an NGS kit rather than an expensive RTR?

Cheers, NeMo

Offline NGS-PO

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PLEASE NOTE: Unless where obviously posting on behalf of the NGS, all posts and views are my own and not connected/endorsed by the Society.

“Having anxiety and depression is like being scared and tired at the same time. It's the fear of failure, but no urge to be productive. It's wanting friends, but hate socializing. It's wanting to be alone, but not wanting to be lonely. It's feeling everything at once then feeling paralyzingly numb.”

We're not crazy, or insane, we're just people living with a condition.

Offline exmouthcraig

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Mixing Catfish and Dogfish in the same train seemed to happen a lot in real life, so I think this proposal is a welcome one.

On the other hand, they do look something like a simpler Dogfish, so perhaps a possibility for an NGS kit rather than an expensive RTR?

Cheers, NeMo

Sounds like an episode for the 'troublesome truucks' or do Catfish and Dogfish not fight???

 :uneasy:

Offline Newportnobby

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Yep. I'd be in for a couple of triple packs if they were done, and can see this selling pretty well.
They'd go well with the 16 Dogfish I have.

Offline red_death

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I think that Catfish would be a great model (and I hope that others do as well!). Some of the best pictures (IMHO) of engineers trains are a mix of Dogfish and Catfish (and Sharks/Mermaids etc).


@Nemo - as to the question of kit vs RTR.  RTR outsells kits by a considerable factor and I'm not convinced that a. a Catfish would be that simple a kit or b. that it would be much cheaper as a kit.  What you gain on assembly/production costs from a kit you lose on lower sales (tooling costs won't be radically different as you're still tooling the same parts!).

Cheers Mike



Offline Thorpe Parva

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I've gone for 5-10. Will complement my Dogfish, Mermaids, Grampuses etc. Also I wish that Dapol would produce more Dogfish. DJM really needs to produce the RTR Sharks ASAP.

Offline NGS-PO

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PLEASE NOTE: Unless where obviously posting on behalf of the NGS, all posts and views are my own and not connected/endorsed by the Society.

“Having anxiety and depression is like being scared and tired at the same time. It's the fear of failure, but no urge to be productive. It's wanting friends, but hate socializing. It's wanting to be alone, but not wanting to be lonely. It's feeling everything at once then feeling paralyzingly numb.”

We're not crazy, or insane, we're just people living with a condition.

Offline JBQFC

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i voted for 3 or 4 but looking at the photos i think i would go for 7 or 8 now
would look good mixed in with the Dapol dogfish and DJM mermaids

John

Offline NGS-PO

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Re: Catfish - Crowdfunding Suggestion for Revolution Trains &/or Sonic Models
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2019, 05:17:52 PM »
This web page has a wealth of Catfish images on Penmaenmawr stone workings:

http://www.6g.nwrail.org.uk/stonetrains.html
PLEASE NOTE: Unless where obviously posting on behalf of the NGS, all posts and views are my own and not connected/endorsed by the Society.

“Having anxiety and depression is like being scared and tired at the same time. It's the fear of failure, but no urge to be productive. It's wanting friends, but hate socializing. It's wanting to be alone, but not wanting to be lonely. It's feeling everything at once then feeling paralyzingly numb.”

We're not crazy, or insane, we're just people living with a condition.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Catfish - Crowdfunding Suggestion for Revolution Trains &/or Sonic Models
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2019, 06:02:02 PM »
@Nemo - as to the question of kit vs RTR.  RTR outsells kits by a considerable factor and I'm not convinced that a. a Catfish would be that simple a kit or b. that it would be much cheaper as a kit.  What you gain on assembly/production costs from a kit you lose on lower sales (tooling costs won't be radically different as you're still tooling the same parts!).

True, @red_death, but the NGS did do an etched brass Sealion (or Seacow, can't remember off the top of my head). It was really difficult to make, and I gave up mine about halfway through. Probably wasn't the best choice of first ever wagon kit!!!  ;)

Cheers, NeMo

Offline bees

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Re: Catfish - Crowdfunding Suggestion for Revolution Trains &/or Sonic Models
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2019, 08:00:42 PM »
@Nemo - as to the question of kit vs RTR.  RTR outsells kits by a considerable factor and I'm not convinced that a. a Catfish would be that simple a kit or b. that it would be much cheaper as a kit.  What you gain on assembly/production costs from a kit you lose on lower sales (tooling costs won't be radically different as you're still tooling the same parts!).

True, @red_death, but the NGS did do an etched brass Sealion (or Seacow, can't remember off the top of my head). It was really difficult to make, and I gave up mine about halfway through. Probably wasn't the best choice of first ever wagon kit!!!  ;)

Cheers, NeMo

I have a few of the NGS Seacow and a Sealion, they were already built when I bought them, they have been very well built by somebody else and after looking at them I can see how awkward they would be to build. I have however recently bought a few of the Salmon Kits, I must say what great kits they are and very enjoyable to build too, I would highly recommend them to you for building your confidence for making kits.
I like to start each day the same, sit up and take a deep breath!
First objective for the day achieved, woohoo!!!

Offline NeMo

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Re: Catfish - Crowdfunding Suggestion for Revolution Trains &/or Sonic Models
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2019, 08:25:41 PM »
I have a few of the NGS Seacow and a Sealion, they were already built when I bought them, they have been very well built by somebody else and after looking at them I can see how awkward they would be to build. I have however recently bought a few of the Salmon Kits, I must say what great kits they are and very enjoyable to build too, I would highly recommend them to you for building your confidence for making kits.

Thanks for the tip! Have built a few other kits since, but still not sure I'd go back to the Sealion any time soon. But the Salmon looks interesting, and as/when NGS kits are all back on sale, I'll might well try that one out. Always like a good departmental!

Cheers, NeMo

Offline Roy L S

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Re: Catfish - Crowdfunding Suggestion for Revolution Trains &/or Sonic Models
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2019, 05:26:20 PM »
Three or four would find their way onto my layout for sure. Ideal companion for the DJM Shark if and when it goes into production (or failing that the NGS kit one that is already available).


Roy

 

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