!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)  (Read 6285 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Innovationgame

  • Larger Gallery
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 26531
  • Posts: 3715
  • Country: gb
    • The innovationgame
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #135 on: April 05, 2020, 06:41:37 AM »
I laid my track over three years ago and, from your description, the fish plates were the old style.  However, I have found that with the track laid using Copydex, over a period of time, the joins on curves have tended to creep into angled joints.  I addressed the problem by inserting two or three track pins through the sleepers either side of the join, which has held it together nicely.  Of course, you may not like the appearance of the track pins, although I don't mind them.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1181
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #136 on: April 05, 2020, 08:59:39 AM »
Thanks for that Laurence.  The track in the storage loops is pinned down, but even with three pins through closely spaced sleepers either side of the joins they still kinked slightly with the new fishplates.  Minimum radius here is 12" so it's not that I am flexing the track beyond its design limit.

Richard

Offline Webbo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1890
  • Country: au
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #137 on: April 05, 2020, 09:21:09 AM »
I think that preventing track joins from kinking at least a little on 12" curves is a pretty big ask even with pinning lots of sleepers on both sides of the joint. The solution is to solder the rail sections together and it's not that hard.

Webbo

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1181
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #138 on: April 05, 2020, 10:54:39 AM »
I'm a bit wary of soldering the sections together due to the risk of the track buckling in hot weather.  On the other hand the track is pinned rather than glued which might allow it to move sideways a little if the expansion gaps at the rail ends aren't big enough to accommodate the expansion.  The room where I will have to store the loop boards can get very hot in summer. I'd be interested to hear other people's experiences in this area.

Richard

Offline Innovationgame

  • Larger Gallery
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 26531
  • Posts: 3715
  • Country: gb
    • The innovationgame
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #139 on: April 05, 2020, 01:31:23 PM »
My minimum radius in the storage loops is about 250mm (10" in old money).  I have designed my follow on layout, which will be largely what I have now, but with a lot of lessons learned.  One of the design mods I have made is, for the storage loops, to have quadrant curves with short straight connecting them.  The idea is to ensure that any track joins in the storage loops are on the short straights, rather than on curves.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

Offline Roy L S

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2073
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #140 on: April 05, 2020, 01:57:13 PM »
I have always used Code 80 in my fiddle-yards as I find it easier to work with. For the very sharpest curves I use Peco set-track (available in four different radii) which then removes any risk of kinking at joins and ensures consistent radius.

Roy

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1181
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #141 on: April 06, 2020, 10:22:49 PM »
Electrics have been making steady progress, until I got to the stage of starting to wire up the servo and relay boards and hit a snag.  Both boards run on the same principle: when the relevant signal pin is connected to earth, this operates the servo or relay associated with that pin.  This makes point switching very simple, using an on-off switch with one terminal connected to the signal pins (relay and servo) and the other to earth.  I used the system on Longframlington but it is a while since I did the electrics on that layout. 



I ordered 12 volt relay boards, since the servo boards use a 12v supply.  What I failed to foresee is that the signal pins on the relay board are at 12v, whereas those on the servo board are 5v.  When I linked the two together the relay board interpreted this as a voltage drop on the signal pin, so the relay was permanently on.  I had a spare 5v relay board which i connected up the same way as the 12v one (apart from the power supply) and it behaved perfectly.  So I now have 5v relay boards on order.

Getting there, slowly.

Richard

Offline kirky

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 18171
  • Posts: 1770
  • Country: 00
  • Gender: Male
    • Facebook
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #142 on: April 07, 2020, 11:15:51 AM »
Thanks for that Richard, thats useful info. On my finetrax boards Ive been using mechanical micro switcheds to change polarity but a relay seems a sensible idea (if you select the correct voltage  :D)
Would you mind posting a link to your 5v relay supplier?
Thanks
Kirky
Northallerton will make its next public appearance sometime after LOCKDOWN

Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1181
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #143 on: April 07, 2020, 12:58:30 PM »
Thanks for that Richard, thats useful info. On my finetrax boards Ive been using mechanical micro switcheds to change polarity but a relay seems a sensible idea (if you select the correct voltage  :D)
Would you mind posting a link to your 5v relay supplier?
Thanks
Kirky

Available all over but I have been buying them from here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5V-1-2-4-8-Channel-Relay-Board-Module-for-Arduino-Raspberry-Pi-ARM-AVR-DSP-PIC/252051910091

Best wishes, Richard

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1181
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #144 on: April 07, 2020, 01:04:42 PM »
Thinking about it, when I wired up Longfram I had to remove a jumper from the relay boards as they had 12v relays and 5v sensing (presumably a manufacturing error), so I ended up using a 5v supply piggybacked off the servo boards.  That's why I didn't realise that using 12v relay boards would cause problems.

Offline kirky

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 18171
  • Posts: 1770
  • Country: 00
  • Gender: Male
    • Facebook
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #145 on: April 07, 2020, 01:42:37 PM »
Thanks Richard, thats very helpful. I often find that having too much choice is not a good thing and end up spending a tenner on something that is the wrong type. Always helpful to get something that is known to work. When it goes wrong then it has to be a fault at my end!
Cheers
Northallerton will make its next public appearance sometime after LOCKDOWN

Layout: Northallerton: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1671.msg16930#msg16930

www.northallertonngauge.co.uk

Cleveland Model Railway club website: www.clevelandmrc.club

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1181
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #146 on: April 10, 2020, 10:59:22 AM »


Shankend board now fully wired, tested and working 100%.  I built a small control panel for the points - not as neat as some I have seen on here, but it does the job.



It is fair to say I had a few problems getting to this stage.  Faced with a constant stream of electronic bleeps from one or both of the district cutouts it would be easy to blame DCC, but all the problems were wiring errors which would have had exactly the same effect on a DC wired layout. After struggling for a while I had to disconnect all the bleepers as they were upsetting the dog.  In my defence there is an awful lot of wiring under the board here - nine servo-operated points each with a frog switching relay, two districts, wire droppers to each rail section, and another pair of relays to change the polarity on one of the districts when the points are reversed on the crossover. I was bound to get a couple of things wrong. 

The biggest mistake I made was misreading the markings on the relay board - I got the common and normally closed pins the wrong way round on all eleven relays and had to reconnect the lot.  There was also a spurious wire connecting two of the frogs together (no idea what I thought I was doing there) and a metal fishplate instead of a plastic one on one of the crossover points which had me scratching my head for a while until I realised what I had done wrong.

The only thing I have to watch now is that if a metal wheelset bridges the rail gap between the two boards while the crossover is reversed I get a dead short as the board joint is the boundary between the two districts.  The crossover is solely used for releasing banking locos, but the operator will have to be careful about where exactly he brings the train to a halt as the last couple of wagons will be straddling the board joint.

Tasks for Easter - finish the wiring for the Stobs Camp board which is about 30% done at the moment, and see if I can fit my DCC system components into a metal case. It's all a bit messy at the moment: I am still having problems with the handset display, possibly a dry joint on one of the tiny connecting pins.



I have a dead computer which I have gutted apart from the power supply which will give me 12v and 5v: it's a pity the DCC system needs 15v or I could run the whole layout off the computer power supply. 

Stay home everyone, stay safe and keep modelling.

Richard

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1181
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #147 on: April 11, 2020, 08:01:54 PM »


Another day of electrickery and the Stobs Camp board is now pretty much finished, just a few cable ties and some insulating tape needed underneath to tidy things up.  In contrast to Shankend this board just powered up and worked perfectly from the start.



Underneath the completed Shankend board, showing the main elements.  Five bus wires - Up and Down districts, and a common return for the servo and relay boards.  All marked and colour coded so I stand a fighting chance of repairing any faults that develop.



Interboard connection will use these DB25 sockets, same as Longframlington.  I am using two pins for each track bus wire: with 1.5 amp overload protection on each district that should be enough to handle the loads.  The 8 way screw connector allows power to be fed direct to the board: normally the DCC track feeds and the 5 and 12 volt supplies will come in via one of the scenic boards, as close to the centre of the layout as possible.



On the Shankend board I managed to put one of the turnouts directly above a board crossmember, hence this rather convoluted linkage from the tiebar to the servo unit.  It works very well at the moment: time will tell whether wear in the linkage creates a problem in future,

Now that I have made up the control panels I'm not happy with them: selecting the route into any given loop is not as easy as I thought it would be.  It will probably get much easier with practice, but I am tempted to replace the toggle switches with a push-button routing system if I can find something suitable.

Not much more to do on the storage loops.  My Land Rover is now back on the road, so I can swap the loop boards for the scenic boards while making my normal journey to and from work rather than having to make a special trip.  I don't think railway modelling is included in the Government's list of permitted reasons to leave the house...

Richard

Offline belstone

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1181
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #148 on: April 12, 2020, 08:02:19 PM »
Bashing on... I thought I would make a start on my DCC control and power centre. This is the starting point: an ancient IBM desktop which should have gone to the council tip long ago.



And here's why I hung onto it: a really well-made case with hinged lid.



I stripped out everything except the power supply, and added a separate 15v supply from a Toshiba laptop.  This gives me 3.3v (for LED lighting), 5V (relay boards), 12v (servo boards) and 15v (DCC).  I still need to add some resettable fuses to the outputs from the PC supply as these things pack a big punch, 30 amps or more at 12 volts.

The next stage will be to fit the circuit boards.  I tried mounting them on squares of MDF glued to the bottom of the casing: the less said about this the better.  I now have some proper threaded spacers on order.  I still need to build the booster board but there is plenty of space to fit everything in.  The casing had a couple of small cooling fans at the front: I threw these away but may have to retrieve them as the DCC station and booster can run quite hot. Then I just have to put a couple of sockets on the back.

Having come to a halt on this job I thought I would cheer myself up by running a train (admittedly only from one end of the loop to the other).



The first proper Waverley Route train to run on the layout: the up "Waverley" (10.15 Edinburgh - St Pancras) passes Stobs Camp Sidings behind an "A1" Pacific.  60162 Saint Johnstoun was a Waverley regular in the early 1960s, after the Deltics had displaced Haymarket's A1s and A4s from most of the East Coast expresses.

Richard

Online cornish yorkie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3077
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #149 on: April 13, 2020, 11:16:29 AM »
 :hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
  After all your trails & tribulations with the electrickity watching trains run is well deserved  :thumbsup:
  stay safe regards Derek

 

Please Support Us!
May Goal: £60.00
Due Date: May 31
Total Receipts: £95.00
Above Goal: £35.00
Site Currency: GBP
158% 
May Donations

SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal