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Author Topic: Manchester to Liverpool - diesels  (Read 344 times)

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Offline themadhippy

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Re: Manchester to Liverpool - diesels
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2018, 04:16:45 PM »
I read a report some time back that reckoned electrifying  a line in scotland  would produce more pollution,taking into account the manufacturing and transportation of all the bits needed ,along with the construction vehicles etc, than running a "clean" diesel on the existing line.
As for the neuclear/renwables debate,in 25 years time solar and wind plant can be removed leaving the land almost the same as the day it was installed,were as a nuclear plant will still be an environmental hazard for many 100's of years into the future

Online njee20

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Re: Manchester to Liverpool - diesels
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2018, 05:09:18 PM »
Wind turbines do not require to be buried underground encased in concrete for a indeterminate number of years ,and while the nuclear industry has a relatively good safety record the waste is particularly toxic and difficult to dispose of.

You totally missed my point. You cite (basically every major) incidents as examples of how polluting nuclear is. You wouldn't use the Exxon Valdez as an example of how ships are polluting...! Nuclear waste is hard to dispose of and very unpleasant yes, but that's not what you said.

As Mike says (and clearly he's far more knowledgeable than me) there's a pollution aspect to anything, there's clearly no panacea.

Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Manchester to Liverpool - diesels
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2018, 07:50:22 PM »
Well if someone with knowledge of a less 'shambolic' state of our railways only complaint is that we're using diesel it can't be as bad as all the commuters and statistics state.

It's hard to comment without it becoming political, our railways require investment BUT if we ever take a train journey i don't get annoyed with the fuel of the power car, I want it to be on time and cheap.

Sure we'd love ultra clean environmental trains BUT where does the 999999billion of investment to supply that come from, let alone the time to replace it all without annoying the poor people paying for the current upgrades???

Online jpendle

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Re: Manchester to Liverpool - diesels
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2018, 02:33:05 PM »

In case there is any doubt, my question is not meant to be provocative. I am honestly curious about this and as you can tell i'm a bit shocked to hear that diesels (DMU) are being operated on such routes - i'll refrain from further superlatives other than this strikes me as grossly inappropriate for 2018.

In case there is any doubt, you are being provocative, so please stop.

In your other post, referring to Farish as a 'secondary' manufacturer doesn't help either.

Welcome to the Forum

John P

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Re: Manchester to Liverpool - diesels
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2018, 06:17:15 AM »
Hi @kurita  and welcome aboard! :wave:

The answer to why UK railways aren't greener, is rooted in a (World) war (II) that bankrupted us, followed by decades of repaying loans we'd taken out to fund the war. To go into greater detail would draw us into discussing (the forbidden) politics.

Allied to that (pun not intended), I would suggest that unlike many european countries and, relevantly for the OP, Japan, UK railways were not as a rule too adversely affected by combat during the war, and hence they weren't seen as the highest priority for rebuilding. If we had been building a railway from scratch again, in 1946, (and of course we hadn't been bankrupted by 6 years of combat) perhaps the whole network would be electrified by now.

Umm, the Japanese railway network was not exactly rebuilt from scratch post-war; while it received some damage particularly in urban areas during the last few month when Japan was within range of US bombers, it would have been reasonably intact, my impression is the main problem was lack of rolling stock.

What Japan did have is a national network which was developed in large parts by the state (i.e. not fragmented between different competing companies), and nationalized by the 1920s, and electrification (1500V DC) of the national network was an early priority, which was continued after the war, meaning Japan went more-or-less straight from steam to electric, with diesel traffic limited to less heavily trafficed routes. The privately-owned suburban lines which mainly came into being in from 1920s were electrified from the start. While the national network is now "privatized", that was done by splitting it up into regional companies, which are fully vertically integrated, i.e. they own track, trains and stations, no "Network Rail" or rolling stock leasing companies or whatever.
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

Birmingham Knotmore Street - (ex) GWR mainline through the Midlands


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