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Author Topic: Questions on scenic effects  (Read 966 times)

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Online springwood

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2019, 01:39:59 PM »
Thanks for your responses so far. You are quite right to be concerned about access and, indeed, that was my top priority before starting any construction and I should have mentioned it at the start of the thread! I literally have a 1" gap between baseboard end and wall on the right-hand side and just less than a foot at the other end so these tunnels simply had to be removable in case of maintenance, derailments and the like.

To that end, they will be taken off the baseboard for the next stages, i.e. newspaper stuffing and plaster cloth work as well as applying the scatters and vegetation etc. Before all that I am thinking of attaching some fine clear fishing line to the tops of a few of the card formers (on each tunnel). This can hopefully be coiled up and hidden discretely behind a bush or tree on the finished hillside. Should the need arise, I can hold both lines and literally lift the tunnel off the baseboard. So, they will not be attached in any way to the baseboard.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 02:18:44 PM by springwood »

Online crewearpley40

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2019, 02:32:30 PM »
Thanks for your responses so far. You are quite right to be concerned about access and, indeed, that was my top priority before starting any construction and I should have mentioned it at the start of the thread! I literally have a 1" gap between baseboard end and wall on the right-hand side and just less than a foot at the other end so these tunnels simply had to be removable in case of maintenance, derailments and the like.


would strongly recommend this

i would not use anything but a couple of small blocks of strong wood made into handles to lift up and then slide the removeable piece and then use both hands to slide out and up

Online The Q

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2019, 09:41:37 AM »
Tunnels,  I make them with a removable top or back for track access.
I like polystyrene hillsides coated with j cloths soaked in pollyfilla mixed with water and PVA. PVA makes the pollyfilla hard so you don't get a chalky soft surface.

Static grass guns,  this isn't the one I use but it should work..  Only £15
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Static-Grass-Applicator-Tufts-Wargaming-Railway-Scenery-Terrain-Loco-Flock-/131741700211

Static grass can be bought in 1mm and 2mm lengths that's only six inches and a foot tall used appropriately, that's not a bad length, certainly I've got longer in my garden jungle at home. You do need to vary the colours and lengths  by obersvation of nature.  Often darker longer grass in hollows  corners and along fence lines and taller straw coloured strands.

I tend to use a pollyfilla water PVA mix to imitate concrete or rocks,  then just paint as appropriate.

Using that sort of cardboard hillsides construction  often people make the next layer a woven from cornflakes boxes skin, before bandaging up. Though traditionally newspaper  strips glued with wallpaper paste were laid over the cardboard weave it does produce a hard shell hillside.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 09:51:35 AM by The Q »

Online springwood

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2019, 12:12:48 PM »
Plucked up a bit of courage this morning and made some good progress with left-hand tunnel. I was a bit nervous about using the ModRoc (plaster cloth) but after a few strips found it very easy, progress was pretty rapid and it was good fun!

First layer is drying and you will see 'my method' for gaining access to the track is by way of two small wires coming through the surface, which have been attached to the top of two of the card formers. Tested and it works perfectly. May shorten these slightly and ultimately hide them in bushes or behind trees. Is it worth doing a second layer of plaster cloth?

Happy enough with the look but I think it may be a bit too 'mountain-like'?? Could always do a mix of polyfilla/PVA (as The Q suggests) and smooth the first third to half from portal to be a bit more like open grassland.

Robin

What do you think?










Offline NeMo

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2019, 12:25:41 PM »
Plucked up a bit of courage this morning and made some good progress with left-hand tunnel. I was a bit nervous about using the ModRoc (plaster cloth) but after a few strips found it very easy, progress was pretty rapid and it was good fun!
This is the most fun part of making the scenics, I think! Very little can go wrong, and when it does, it's easily fixed with another layer of ModRoc.

What do you think?
Couple thoughts. Yes, it's a big steep mountain rather than a gentle hill, so think about the context. If you add some exposed rock pieces -- the plaster mouldings you can make with Woodland Scenics moulds are perfect for this -- then you can create something like the limestone crags you'd see in Derbyshire or Fife. With a bit more care chalk exposures like you'd see in Kent or Sussex would be doable too, but chalk, being softer, tends to slip and weather more easily, so rather than crags, you'd be looking at flatter exposures.

On the other hand, if this was the rolling hills of West Somerset or the flat landscape of Norfolk, you'd want to tone the gradients down a bit. Stuffing steeper areas with trees can work, but alternatively, just build up the edges with sloped banks of ModRock over newspaper balls. Air-drying clay is really useful for doing small areas, but it's expensive and heavy, so not the best choice for larger areas.

Second thought is to get painting on the tunnel front! That'll help you establish your 'palette'. Those Peco tunnels look really good if you pick out different bricks with a range of similar, but different, colours. Three or four shades of grey for limestone, different ochres and buffs for sandstone, and so forth. The railway companies tended to use local stone where possible, so if your tunnel front is sandstone, say, then you can use shades of those colours on your rocky crags and other exposures. Ideally, you'd give the soil colour some of this colour too, as the rock underneath the soil tends to creep into overlying soils, especially if those rocks are easily weathered. So soils over chalks tend to be off-white, soils over sandstones are pale brown, and so on.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2019, 12:27:32 PM »
Yep coming along fine by the look of it. 

I usually find two layers of plaster bandage applied in one go is enough, cross-crossed for strength. I apply in small pieces so it's easier to work with.  One tip: make sure you rub over the wet pieces with your finger to spread the plaster and close up the holes.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Online crewearpley40

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2019, 12:45:14 PM »
I would also add pieces of wood to aid lift up if this is the removeble structure piece

Online springwood

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #37 on: September 29, 2019, 01:27:09 PM »
Thank you for your very full - and informative - reply, NeMo! Yes, I do need to think about the context and supposed location of the layout. Subconsciously, I have always thought I would have the layout 'based' in the north west. I actually live 8 miles or so north east out of Chester and the local hills and many older buildings (including stations) are all sandstone so my portals will certainly have that look/appearance you describe..

ntpntpntp - you say 'two layers applied in one go'. Is that important as the plan was to leave this first layer to dry and harden. Is it difficult to get a second layer to bond if it is going onto a fully dried first one? To 'tone the gradients down' would the best approach be to make a stiffish mix of polyfilla/pva and mould it with my fingers, then follow that up with more modroc? I'm tempted to leave the higher third or so as is and create one or two rocky outcrops.

I want to achieve flatter, more hill fields look on my right hand tunnel. To that end, would I best to create a criss-cross of thin card pieces over the tops of the formers, then go in with a layer or two of modroc?


Online crewearpley40

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #38 on: September 29, 2019, 01:32:57 PM »
I want to achieve flatter, more hill fields look on my right hand tunnel. To that end, would I best to create a criss-cross of thin pieces over the tops of the formers, then go in with a layer or two of modroc?


probably this is the way to go after what nemo has said. take it your not modelling the pennines / lakes ?

good luck with this

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2019, 02:14:22 PM »

ntpntpntp - you say 'two layers applied in one go'. Is that important as the plan was to leave this first layer to dry and harden. Is it difficult to get a second layer to bond if it is going onto a fully dried first one?

Yes you will get a better bond between the layers if they are applied at the same time and the plaster can intermingle and set as one "lump".

Quote
To 'tone the gradients down' would the best approach be to make a stiffish mix of polyfilla/pva and mould it with my fingers, then follow that up with more modroc?

That should work, though you don't need to go too stiff with the mix or it will set too quickly. It's good fun to experiment and develop techniques which work best for you.

To form rock faces I use more plaster of paris, making sure it is pre-coloured to a suitable base colour using powder paints (in case of future damage). I apply using old knives, paint brushes, wooden stirrers or whatever is to hand! Once I've got the basic look of the rocks I like to tip the whole face back at an angle and sprinkle more dry plaster/powder paint mix onto the face whilst still wet, allowing it to stick in places to add texture and also collect at the bottom as scree. I keep a fine spray bottle of water to hand to moisten the dry mix if necessary.

When fully dried off I'll then use airbrushed colours and thin washes to highlight some areas, darken crevices, add soil and dirt to others etc.



Quote
I want to achieve flatter, more hill fields look on my right hand tunnel. To that end, would I best to create a criss-cross of thin card pieces over the tops of the formers, then go in with a layer or two of modroc?

To be honest I find using scrap polystyrene from packaging gives better support than card and scrunched up newspaper etc., it's light, easy to glue pieces together with PVA and simple to shape with a sharp knife. If necessary you can create a single removable piece of scenery which is robust enough to be lifted away, and being a solid mass it protects track in tunnels from any plaster and glue leakage etc.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 02:16:06 PM by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline Bealman

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Re: Questions on scenic effects
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2019, 11:14:04 PM »
As in:



One chunk of removable scenery!

« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 11:18:02 PM by Bealman »
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

 

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