!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's  (Read 1424 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online GrahamB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 994
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« on: October 07, 2018, 08:44:57 PM »
Not sure if I've put this in the right thread but couldn't find a better home.

I visited the Folkestone show today where Bachmann had a stand. They were showing off their latest OO EPB variants and I asked if they would be producing it in N.

Sadly the short answer was "No". It seems the 4 CEP in N was viewed as a commercial flop and they don't want to repeat the "mistake". Given that they are going to produce the 319 I view that as an odd view.

I believe N Train is intending to produce the 2 HAP as a 3D printed body. If that takes off perhaps it would be easier to move into the EPB space - perhaps even the 205/207 Thumpers?

Discuss?

Online njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 4769
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2018, 09:12:35 PM »
To my mind the problem with third rail SR EMUs is that there's nothing to run them with. Now that's obviously very chicken and egg, but until a manufacturer comes out with an entirely cohesive range I'm not sure it'll change. It's the sort of arena Revolution may enter - insofar as it's something the mainstream manufacturers are unlikely to touch, and a prime candidate for crowdfunding - if the market exists it's a safe bet, if not nothing happens.

I'd have thought EPBs would be among the better choices, but still can't see much of a market, IMO it's quite 'dilute'; there's no really obvious candidate. Farish doing the unrefurbished CEP was a curious choice - a refurbished one would have opened them up for far more liveries and a broader time period.

Online GrahamB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 994
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2018, 11:17:31 AM »
I'd disagree that there is nothing to run with them. Whilst some of it is currently out of production we have;

33's
73's
08's

4 CEP's

Mark 1 coaches for the loco hauled routes,
Maunsell coaches if modelling earlier electric,
Bullied coaches if modelling earlier electric,
Maunsell brake vans,
Maunsell CCT's,
Mk1 CCT's,
GUV's,
PLV's,
Bogie B's.

Then of course there is the pure freight traffic where a wagon or van is exactly that, regardless of region.

There are also the interlopers, 31's 35's and 47's.

A test launch could be the class 416 (2EPB). If that was a success the 415 (4EPB) would only require the development of the two middle carriages and an unpowered brake van.

As regards liveries, off the top of my head we have;
Green,
Green with SYP,
Green with yellow end,
Blue,
Blue/Grey,
NSE,
Departmental.



Online njee20

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22598
  • Posts: 4769
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2018, 01:10:50 PM »
So many grocers apostrophes in one post ;)

I do know what you mean, I'd love to see more SR EMU layouts, and I don't think manufacturers have helped themselves with piecemeal releases which don't go together - Farish's Southern 170 springs to mind! Our time periods of interest are obviously quite different so I defer to your superior knowledge on things like Maunsells - as I wouldn't know one if it ran me over. I certainly think if a manufacturer came out with an NSE EPB it would be at risk of floundering without obvious models to accompany it (although amusingly there's an NSE 33 in the classifieds right beside the reply box as I type!). Conversely if we had the CEPs in NSE that may have been better.

There's then also the threat that Bachmann have done a OO gauge EPB, and whilst they've not got plans to scale it down it would be a brave move to go head to head with them, in case they got the jump on any parallel project.

Not trying to be down - like I say I'd love to see more modern SR layouts, and I'd have a 442 in a heartbeat if one was released.

Online GrahamB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 994
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2018, 02:34:29 PM »
I think the fact you're the only person to reply says a lot for the lack of interest sadly.

I've no special knowledge apart from growing up in Bermondsey between the Bricklayers Arms branch and the main drag to London Bridge does help.

Oh well.

Offline snitchthebudgie

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 2mm Association Number: 4489
  • Posts: 219
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2018, 03:29:03 PM »
Sorry, Graham, I'd better chip in.  I'd be second in line to buy a number of 2 & 4-EPB's and 2-HAP's.  I grew up in Petts Wood on the Victoria-Orpington line, and also grew up with these units.  It took a trip to London to see something exotic like a SUB (or even BEL's, PAN's and the like).

It seems that no-one wants to shrink down 'OO' electrics.  I did wonder about the DJM '71', but he seems to have been diverted onto boring GWR steam locos (dive for cover.... :o)  Jon

Online Intercity

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 430
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2018, 04:24:07 PM »
Iíve only seen a handful of SR layouts in both N and that other gauge, they have been very well modeled but needed scratchbuilt MUs, I see many people feel that once an MU has gone around the layout they see the next one as just another MU (the same as the last one, even though it could be an EPB followed by a 4CIG).

Having said that Iíd certainly snap up a good amount of MUs if they were produced, but will they be cost effective, for the detailing we expect and the low sales potential the cost of a 4car MU may be quite high.

It will take a huge leap of faith for a manufacturer to commit to SR MUs and produce enough of a variation for it to cover multiple bases/eras, we are seeing that with 25kv MUs (321 struggled, 350 sat on shelves for months/years/319 still waiting, supposedly popular 304/305/308/310 and 312s never made the drawing board)
Support crowdfunding - itís the way forward

Revolutions class 321 needs your help, letís make it happen.

Online GrahamB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 994
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2018, 04:25:05 PM »
My other layout is GWR but I'm afraid a King is just too big for me.

The 71 would also get my vote.

Offline Tank

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+30)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7221
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2018, 04:35:39 PM »
These would be right up my street, and I'd certainly like to buy a few. :thumbsup:

Offline woodbury22uk

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23382
  • Posts: 1832
  • Country: gb
    • Facebook
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2018, 07:32:52 PM »
For simplicity of tooling I would suggest an MLV which is directly compatible with the 4CEP. But that is just me being selfish. My earliest memory of electric trains was being just south of Balham station with worms passing in all directions. That was the day before the Queen's coronation. In spite of living south of the river for several years in the 1970s and in the 4SUB/EPB era, the London suburban scene does not attract me. However I have long had a desire to put the Airfix SRN4 hovercraft in a scene with an imaginary interchange station not a million miles from Dover Marine/Western Docks. I'd need 4CEPs and MLVs to do that.
Mike

Over-user of brackets and quotation marks.

Wondering how many pedants can dance of the head of a pin.


Membre AFAN 0196

Offline captainelectra

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1554
  • Country: 00
  • Gender: Male
    • Facebook
    • Twitter
    • YouTube
    • Electra Rail
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2018, 07:53:09 PM »
Bachmann boobed by introducing the 4-CEP as their entry Southern EMU, which only ran in that format until 1980 so missed out on NSE and all the later TOC liveries. A Class 421 4-CIG would have been a much better choice and could still be offered in the all-important BR Green and last right up until the Electrostar age. A CIG would have real crowdfund potential.

Until then, there's always vinyl....;-)
Best Regards,
Adam Warr
Electra Rail
Peterborough, UK
http://www.electrarail.co.uk
Flick Site: http://www.flickr.com/photos/27017199@N07/

Online Invicta Alec

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 281
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2018, 08:20:46 PM »
...........  I'd be second in line to buy a number of 2 & 4-EPB's and 2-HAP's.  I grew up in Petts Wood on the Victoria-Orpington line, and also grew up with these units.   Jon

Jon, I'd be right behind you in the buying queue. These were the trains that took me to school (Bat and Ball to Bromley South). I'll buy a bag full. Green ones, blue and grey ones, NSE ones, I really wouldn't care  :bounce:

I'd also suggest to the guy at Bachmann that he checks out the sky high prices people are willing to pay for second hand 4 CEPs and then get his finger out and produce the promised 319 that shows as "new" in the 2016 catalogue!

Alec.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2018, 08:21:58 PM by Invicta Alec »

Online Intercity

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 430
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2018, 08:27:53 PM »
If they wanted to revisit the market they could rerelease the CEP in NSE, pretty sure that would be the most popular choice (Jaffa cake and Connex wouldnít hold the same appeal as a traditional NSE liveried SR EMU)
Support crowdfunding - itís the way forward

Revolutions class 321 needs your help, letís make it happen.

Online PostModN66

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 17980
  • Posts: 1990
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • YouTube
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2018, 09:25:26 PM »
So many grocers apostrophes in one post ;)

.....grocer's apostrophes?  ;)

Couldn't resist!

Cheers Jon  :)
ďWe must conduct research and then accept the results. If they don't stand up to experimentation, Buddha's own words must be rejected.Ē ― Dalai Lama XIV

My Postmodern Image Layouts

Lofthole http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14792.msg147178#msg147178

Deansmoor http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=14741.msg146381#msg146381

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+63)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 31255
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: 2/4EPB's 415's and 416's
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2018, 09:37:08 PM »
So many grocers apostrophes in one post ;)


.....grocer's apostrophes?  ;)

Couldn't resist!

Cheers Jon  :)


As 'so many grocers' are plural should that not be "grocers' apostrophes"? :D

@Southernboy could you supply details of your EMUs please?

 

Please Support Us!
May Goal: £55.00
Due Date: May 31
Total Receipts: £55.00
Below Goal: £0.00
Site Currency: GBP
100% 
May Donations


Advertise Here