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Author Topic: Speeding  (Read 1845 times)

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Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2018, 08:34:31 PM »
I used to live in Pennsylvania and commute to New Jersey which presented two different sets of challenges:

Jon

My overwhelming memory of travelling regularly between Philly and Atlantic City, NJ in the early 1990s was that there were loads of old NJ police left on the median. Until you got close telling whether they had live occupants or not was not going to be possible. Seemed to be an effective deterrent except for trucks and buses with higher seating positions and better route kniwledge. :-)
Mike

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Wondering how many pedants can dance of the head of a pin.


Membre AFAN 0196

Offline PLD

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2018, 09:33:41 PM »
Speed does not necessarily kill, but speed differential can and does. That differential can be minor, say 2 or 3 mph faster or slower than the driver in front and behind, or major, say 70mph faster than that stationary vehicle or concrete wall in front of you.
I certainly agree with that - rather than absolute speed it is inappropriate speed (either high or low) and the resulting differential to others that causes danger. The only (thankfully) collision I have actually witnessed on a Motorway was when one car doing 60-65 swung straight from lane 1 to lane 3 to go round another doing 50ish in the middle lane and was hit from the rear by a third vehicle doing 75+ in lane 3...

The subsequent investigation apportioned blame to all three, though personally I thought the primary cause was the inappropriately low speed and lane choice of the middle lane hogger.

Often think the Peugeot doing 50 in the middle lane (and it is usually a Peugeot or a Kia) is more of a danger to others than the Audi/BMW doing 80 in lane 3...

Offline Bealman

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2018, 08:27:24 AM »
High school physics. Conservation of momentum. Momentum:

p = mv

Where m = mass in kg, v = velocity in m/s, p = momentum in kgms-1.

Damage and injuries in collisions are the result of sudden changes in momentum. A loaded coal train could be travelling very slow, so v in the equation is low. However, m is a huge value, so the train has huge momentum.

Likewise, in a fast moving car, m is nowhere near the value of a train, however, v is a large quantity. Hence big momentum again.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Online daffy

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2018, 09:10:30 AM »
More High School physics :

Inertia - Inertia is the resistance of any physical object to any change in its position and state of motion. This includes changes to the object's speed, direction, or state of rest. Inertia is also defined as the tendency of objects to keep moving in a straight line at a constant velocity.

But when it comes to motoring, another, simpler, definition is frequently also at play:

Inertia - a tendency to do nothing or to remain unchanged.

This latter definition describes the mental state of many drivers on the roads these days who are apparently oblivious to the inherent dangers of driving, and are content to sit, often in the middle lane of a motorway, or sometimes three inches from the vehicle in front, in a seeming state of trance as they hurtle along, unaware that they are in fact in charge of a potentially lethal weapon.

So we have the new probability equation: Accident = momentum x Pillock acting under inertia with inertia.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 09:11:36 AM by daffy »
Mike

Sufferin' succotash!

Offline Bealman

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2018, 09:14:58 AM »
That's funny, but really it's not.  :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2018, 09:51:00 AM »

Often think the Peugeot doing 50 in the middle lane (and it is usually a Peugeot or a Kia) is more of a danger to others than the Audi/BMW doing 80 in lane 3...

Please let's not get into stereotyping the cars/drivers as I'd end up infuriating a lot of people :D

Offline NeMo

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2018, 11:11:23 AM »
Please let's not get into stereotyping the cars/drivers as I'd end up infuriating a lot of people :D

Absolutely.

This is a fascinating read:

https://www.trafficsafetystore.com/blog/who-causes-accidents/

It's American, but the basic facts probably hold true for the UK. Men cause more accidents than women; teens and pensioners cause the most; married men cause fewer accidents than single men; people with risky careers have higher insurance premiums than people in more staid occupations; the more educated you are, the lower your premiums; and perhaps most controversial, cyclists cause as many accidents as motorists!

Cheers, NeMo

Offline Fardap

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2018, 11:27:48 AM »
I drove from South Bucks to Leicester on Saturday (on the way to Trent Bridge for the Cricket  :'( )  It is more than annoying that on that journey I made the following observations...

Police vehicles seen - 0

Speed Cameras seen - dozens - especially these new ones fixed to the side of the road on motorway gantries, slimline and sneaky...

Average Speed restrictions - 2 of several miles

Cars travelling in lane 2 of 3 or lane 3 of 4 - TOO B :censored: Y MANY it is a joke that they have these revenue making speed cameras and yet the most dangerous thing on the journey were moving chicanes of zomboid drivers - I didn't see anyone on a phone which is a first as usually see several on a normal 30 min commute.
As others have said it is the 65mph lane hogger that casues the main issue on the motorways, keep left seems beyond their understanding even when vehicles pass them and cross three lanes to move back left.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 08:49:49 AM by Fardap »

Offline Philip.

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2018, 11:31:30 AM »
Another problem is the road infrastructure, Motorways, Dual Carriageways, A and B roads are not designed or capable of handling the road traffic we have now.

Motorways and Dual Carriageways were never "future proofed", how the designers never thought that traffic would increase baffles me.

More traffic = more lunatics driving at warp speed =more accidents

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2018, 11:40:22 AM »
Some of the worst speeders I see are those who know their motorway exit is coming up but still sit in lane 2 or 3 and then speed up to make a last minute dash to get off at that junction. It seems a few extra seconds on their journey by getting in lane 1 about a mile from the junction is just too much so they create absolute chaos in their wake.
I dare say there are a lot of motorists out there who've never been in an accident but have caused many.

Offline PLD

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #40 on: August 20, 2018, 12:05:59 PM »
Some of the worst speeders I see are those who know their motorway exit is coming up but still sit in lane 2 or 3 and then speed up to make a last minute dash to get off at that junction. It seems a few extra seconds on their journey by getting in lane 1 about a mile from the junction is just too much so they create absolute chaos in their wake.
I dare say there are a lot of motorists out there who've never been in an accident but have caused many.
to an extent, I agree, but it is in part caused and exacerbated by those who have no idea what a slip road is for and slow down to B-road speeds a mile or more before the junction... That inappropriately slow speed causing the differential to traffic flowing at the normal 70 again...

Offline Fardap

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2018, 01:03:17 PM »

Quote
Yes it is possible, many drivers do so. You just need to press lighter with your left foot. By doing so you'll find that your car doesn't travel so fast.

Right foot?

Quote
The revenue they generate is only because motorists think they are above the law. If motorists didn't break the law by....

Insert any law breaking such as dangerous driving, using a phone, not wearing a seatbelt - NONE of which speed cameras address as they only address ONE aspect of the dangers on the road - I agree if you speed you accept the consequences but there is no parity in the way the road law is being balanced amongst users.

Offline NinOz

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2018, 01:13:45 PM »
The only (thankfully) collision I have actually witnessed on a Motorway was when one car doing 60-65 swung straight from lane 1 to lane 3 to go round another doing 50ish in the middle lane and was hit from the rear by a third vehicle doing 75+ in lane 3...
Thankfully in oz we don't have to do a lane dance to pass as we can pass on either side in any lane.  Found the UK pass-only-on-right a bit of a pain on the odd occasion.
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
I tried so hard to be snobbish and haughty.

Online njee20

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2018, 02:02:10 PM »
The revenue they generate is only because motorists think they are above the law. If motorists didn't break the law by speeding then the speed cameras wouldn't make any money. If they didn't make any money the revenue would have to come from somewhere else, probably taxation (which means I would have to pay more).

As many motorists still think it is Ok to speed maybe they should increase the fines so that the financial punishment is higher to see if this has an effect.   

To be fair they did increase the fines last year(?), to be a proportion of weekly income up to 1500 or something. Switerzland has unlimited fines proportional to the magnitude of the offence and the offender's income, which seems eminently more sensible. It does mean you get stories like this: Swedish man faces 650,000 fine for doing 180mph on Swiss motorway, which I'm all for. Boosts the state coffers nicely!

For me speed cameras should be there to increase safety. Hiding them behind trees does the opposite, because people see them at the last minute and slam on the brakes (invariably even if they weren't actually speeding, because people are terrible at knowing exactly how fast they're going).

It's all very well saying "ah yes, but just don't speed", but actually people don't tend to slavishly look at their speedo, rightly so. Furthermore the car you're driving and the road itself can totally skew your perception of speed. There's a Roman road near me, which unsurprisingly is rather straight. It goes from a long section of NSL down to 30, but obviously is still totally straight, which means 30 feels incredibly slow, frankly. Driving it last week in my wife's car I found myself going slower than I usually do, despite it feeling quicker.

I will also tend to drive quicker at 2am than at 5pm, even given a totally clear road. To me it's madness that you have the same totally arbitrary limits on a deserted motorway as one packed with rush hour traffic, although I accept a truly variable solution would simply introduce new problems.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Speeding
« Reply #44 on: August 20, 2018, 02:41:08 PM »
So if they increased the fines it would be able to pay for more traffic police to enforce other offences such as using mobile phones

You think so? Next you'll be telling me they spend our road tax on the roads :D
But that's an entirely different can of worms.

 

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