Windows 10 latest update.

[ntpntpntp]

...they should design the upgrades that in the event of a conflict it doesn't completely destroy your operating system and all your data......whilst messages appear on screen saying "leave it to us" and "almost done".

Windows updates/upgrades have never lost any of my user data so that seems very odd if you've had that happen.  A scratch install might lose track of the user folder associations with system accounts but even then they're probably still there on the disk unless you get it to format the drive as part of the install.

[njee20]

"just an I-D-10-T fault" he replied, with a smile.

took me ages to work out what he meant 

Also known as a PICNIC error; problem in chair, not in computer.

[BlythPower]

Windows 10 updates aren't too painful for me (but I still try to put the biggies off as long as possible). However, when W10 forced it's way onto a perfectly good Win 8.1 system, it's constant attempts at downloading trashed the hard drive.  :'( 

[njee20]

That literally makes no sense.

[guest311]

"just an I-D-10-T fault" he replied, with a smile.

took me ages to work out what he meant 

Also known as a PICNIC error; problem in chair, not in computer.

[PostModN66]

...they should design the upgrades that in the event of a conflict it doesn't completely destroy your operating system and all your data......whilst messages appear on screen saying "leave it to us" and "almost done".

Windows updates/upgrades have never lost any of my user data so that seems very odd if you've had that happen.  A scratch install might lose track of the user folder associations with system accounts but even then they're probably still there on the disk unless you get it to format the drive as part of the install.

Hi Ntpntpntp,

The data might be (have been) there for somebody with the expertise and time to track it down;  but in practical terms for a well-intentioned basic user of Windows (me) without hours to spare Googling solutions or using up the goodwill of friends in helping, the data did not exist.  Certainly not at 7:30 AM in a hotel room in Germany with an hour to have breakfast, set up the room and get my presentation started!  And of course, I couldn't Google solutions or e-mail anyone for help because.....I didn't have an operating system.....!!

Cheers Jon 

[Bikeracer]

It seems nearly impossible to buy a PC today that doesn't have Windows and all it's bloatware pre installed.
Microsoft seems to decide what people have software wise whether they want it or not.

It's the same with the Xbox, I buy a game but I still have to log in to be able to play it.

I don't want to start any debate but I've been using a Mac for over five years without being locked out while the frequent updates load and install that I had as a Windows user.
It just worked out of the box.

Allan

[red_death]

Yet I've had issues with both Macs that I've had or family have had - particularly around access to networks and file sharing - so it is swings and roundabouts!

Mac should be able to ensure (in a way that MS never can) that software and hardware work flawlessly with no conflicts as they control both parts and only have a limited amount of hardware to support.  MS don't have that luxury.

Like others I normally wait a short while to see if there are any reported problems with Updates.  The last set of W10 updates were clearly a large update but installed flawlessly on my MS Surface - it required several reboots but that all happened automatically.

Most of the problems seem to be bizarre software or hardware combinations that are not the fault of MS (nor could they be reasonably expected to have tested every combination!).

The past few versions of Windows have been marked improvements in stability (from W7 on and even before that with XP).

Cheers, Mike

[BobB]

I disagree with you red_death

If Microsoft got the operating system correct in the first place there would be no need for all of the updates and the so called enhancements (bloatware as it has been named in this thread) could be optional - even paid for if they're worthwhile.

Whatever the excuse, Microsoft is forcing us to accept software which damages the computer's usability. This is not acceptable. How would you feel if your decoder was updated and then the loco would either not move at all or would do what it wants regardless of your instructions - maybe turning lights on or off, running at full speed rather than at the top voltage setting you want (Are you reading this Bachmann !)

If I had the money I would sue them.

[PostModN66]

Hi Mike,

Yeah but.........!

As someone who just wants an easy life; how do I know if my software is bizarre?  On my laptop, I had Microsoft Office, Anyrail, AVG Virus checker,......and that's all I can remember cos it has all gone now!!

Whenever something goes wrong with my computer my friends all blame it on me....I have used the wrong setting, installed or not installed the wrong software etc.....but they can't tell me before it happens!  And I try and stick to the most vanilla low-stress approaches exactly 'cos I fear this kind of meltdown, and rely on my computer "live".


A month ago, I went down to my garage and found the engine had been ripped out of my car.  It turned out to be  a team from Ford who had broken into my garage to modify my car, and found that they couldn't reinstall the engine afterwards.......

Not really, but it's the same thing as happened on my computer 

Hope all going well with you Mike and various RevolutioN projects.

Cheers Jon 

[austinbob]

Of course many of the updates are to address new security threats which hackers are always coming up with. Some of the 'bloatware' may appear to be as such to us but many of the new features are welcomed by some users and were probably identified as new requirements by Microsoft's market research.

As for updates causing problems with usability with some PC's/laptops or whatever, as red_death said earlier its impossible to test all the possible combinations of hardware and software, both new and legacy. So some problems are inevitable.

Unfortunate but inevitable.

[Snowwolflair]

Hi Mike,

Yeah but.........!

As someone who just wants an easy life; how do I know if my software is bizarre?  On my laptop, I had Microsoft Office, Anyrail, AVG Virus checker,......and that's all I can remember cos it has all gone now!!

Whenever something goes wrong with my computer my friends all blame it on me....I have used the wrong setting, installed or not installed the wrong software etc.....but they can't tell me before it happens!  And I try and stick to the most vanilla low-stress approaches exactly 'cos I fear this kind of meltdown, and rely on my computer "live".


A month ago, I went down to my garage and found the engine had been ripped out of my car.  It turned out to be  a team from Ford who had broken into my garage to modify my car, and found that they couldn't reinstall the engine afterwards.......

Not really, but it's the same thing as happened on my computer 

Hope all going well with you Mike and various RevolutioN projects.

Cheers Jon 

I like your analogy but its the wrong way round.

The engine is the computer hardware and the engine management software is the OS, and guess what if you take your car in to Ford for a service they will change the engine management software without telling you.


OK time to stand back and explain what is going on.

Microsoft has to design one package of individual programs that together make up windows.  This pack of software has to work with every different hardware configuration by every stupid hardware manufacturer or Microsoft know they will be blamed for it not working.  Some years also Microsoft started to issue compliance certificates for hardware that they warrant will work with their software and these designs are allowed to be labeled as compliant and are pretty bomb proof.  So what did the Chinese do, they printed their own fake labels and carried on fooling the market with badly designed machines that fail and are the cheap ones a vast number of people buy.

Windows works with the properly designed and Microsoft tested computers - there are tens of thousands of pages of compliance specifications - and these machines don't fall over due to non malicious errors (malicious viruses etc. will kill any computer).  They may be life limited due to software version upgrades but that's inevitable.  For instance, my best computer is a Dell that wont upgrade from windows 7 to windows 10 as its BIOS wont support it.

Where I disagree with Microsoft is forced upgrades.  My windows 7 machine gets told to upgrade to windows 10 every quarter with the quarterly security updates, it cannot be stopped and they need to sort this out. 

As I understand it Widows CORE OS (you heard it here first) will take a different approach forcing the hardware manufacturers to leap well ahead of this new OS so as the software is upgraded it wont hit a hardware buffer.  The hardware requirement will be completely different so there will be no upgrade path form our current PCs, resulting in a new tightly specified architecture that manufacturers will need to adhere to and CORE OS will only be available as a pre-installed OS certified by Microsoft.  this is why Windows 7 onward all user software and programs can no longer talk to the hardware, rather talking through the OS meaning the hardware structure is slowly becoming irrelevant.

[emjaybee]

Of course many of the updates are to address new security threats which hackers are always coming up with. Some of the 'bloatware' may appear to be as such to us but many of the new features are welcomed by some users and were probably identified as new requirements by Microsoft's market research.

As for updates causing problems with usability with some PC's/laptops or whatever, as red_death said earlier its impossible to test all the possible combinations of hardware and software, both new and legacy. So some problems are inevitable.

Unfortunate but inevitable.

Ok...

...please explain how the first 'system' update on a new Win10 laptop with a new copy of MS Office resulted with Word crashing every time I opened a document that had been created on the same machine?

Backed the update out, everything fine again.

System updates are now disabled (yes you can, it's easy to do and easy to undo), laptop is stable.

MS are second rate, they just have a monopoly which can't be broken and deep pockets so can get away with it and just pay any fines with their loose change.

[PostModN66]

I like your analogy but its the wrong way round.

The engine is the computer hardware and the engine management software is the OS, and guess what if you take your car in to Ford for a service they will change the engine management software without telling you.

A fair point, Snowwolflair but if it were Ford that destroyed the engine management software, I would expect them to fix it.  Microsoft are completely unaccountable.

My Laptop is a Lenovo, not a cheap budget model.  Ironically my second-spare £150 "e-machines" laptop was apparently unaffected.   

I don't normally get pulled into these discussions, but I feel increasingly frustrated by Microsoft and the rest of the computer industry...  .    Letting off a bit of steam!!!


Cheers Jon 

[Snowwolflair]

I like your analogy but its the wrong way round.

The engine is the computer hardware and the engine management software is the OS, and guess what if you take your car in to Ford for a service they will change the engine management software without telling you.

A fair point, Snowwolflair but if it were Ford that destroyed the engine management software, I would expect them to fix it.  Microsoft are completely unaccountable.

My Laptop is a Lenovo, not a cheap budget model.  Ironically my second-spare £150 "e-machines" laptop was apparently unaffected.   

I don't normally get pulled into these discussions, but I feel increasingly frustrated by Microsoft and the rest of the computer industry...  .    Letting off a bit of steam!!!


Cheers Jon 

I think Lindi has the answer.