is it me or has the world of n gauge lost the plot?

[Railbank]

hi all

I buy quite a few bits off the the inter-web, and second hand off the well known auction site, but 2 recent lots have left me a bit perplexed as to where prices will end. Mind you well done to the seller a terrific result.

I well appreciate that if you can afford it then have it but £300.00 for standard Dapol Class 26's - 2 separate lots - one BR Blue the other Railfreight Red, no dcc chips fitted, no sound, no weathering, no added details just standard out of the box loco's.

Both went to the same buyer, £300.00 on each when finished, 21 & 22 bids, and the buyer even had higher bids registered so must have really wanted these.

Within the last year I bought a Railfreight version off the same site at £50.00, I know sometimes it is just luck & timing but prices at the moment seem to be unreal and I cannot help wondering if they are sustainable.

Last weekend I attended the Shildon model railway show at Locomotion - good mix of trade and exhibits but some of the prices on second hand - £250 for a quite bashed/small baseboard with track - when viewed it looked more like ready for the skip rather than restoration, above list price for used Oxford Die-cast - no boxes, glue on the wheels, RRP on second hand Farish coaches that are still in stock in most model shops.

I like to spread my trade around, some local, some shows, some auction, some internet, bit off box shifters and a bit off the smaller model shops and I will pay a fair price for something I want but even on my modelling budget which I think is reasonable I have come to the conclusion it is now more cost effective to go to an established shop in preference to the internet auctions and second hand traders.

Happy N gauging.

[Bob G]

With the cost of ready to run going sky high for many, the demand on second hand is increasing.
Depending on rarity, some secondhand models attract as new prices or even higher. Brighton Belles in original 1938 livery for £250 - £450 for example. RRP £200. And we are told steam era modellers don't spend money on trains as they are all pensioners. Not true, obviously.
It is all a case of supply and demand.

When Farish sold to Bachmann and Bachmann had not yet recommenced N gauge production in China to any great volume, the price of green diesels went astronomic (for those days) with class 40s costing £80 (2003 -04 prices) when second hand Farish blue diesels were £45 - 50.

What goes around, comes around. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

[Intercity]

Ebay can cause false perceptions on prices, there are a couple of things to take into account, how bad does the buyer want the item, how rare is the item and how easy is the "easy to obtain common item" in the buyers country, for the latter in my case an item may be easy to get in the U.K., but the retail places or most internet sellers may not ship to my country, that means when an item does come up for me to get it I may have to enter a bidding war until I decide I've had enough, the result is a common item selling for crazy prices.

Just one side of the crazy coin

[daffy]

I noted some time ago that some eBay prices were above the retail. Not unusual you might think. But the seller I was looking at is a major European N Gauge seller who lists the self-same items on their main website for the lower, usually retail, price.
The eBay items evidently sell (otherwise the seller would not bother listing on eBay in this way) so the seller is quite aware, and taking advantage of the fact, that some folks using eBay perhaps think they are getting a better deal than they would through the standard shop website. (P&P from the shop or through eBay are identical.)
I have no inclination to check whether other retailers are doing likewise, but it illustrates, perhaps, that some folks are less than astute in their buying habits.

I have used eBay to sell, though rarely to buy, primarily because of incidents where all was not as it seemed. I now stick to retailers I can check on or visit (the latter including at shows) and decide that I will not pay over the odds for anything that I can easily find for a more reasonable price. Nothing, but nothing, is so essential that I must pay an over-inflated price for it and thus help line someone else's pockets.

To date, as far as my n Gauge purchases are concerned, I have only once paid a price slightly over retail for a discontinued, hard to find, item. And like the O.P. I believe my overall approach of using standard retailers has been cost effective in the long run, taking advantage whenever possible of their 'sales', promotions, and other discounts, and using that old standby, the friendly negotiation.

[JasonBz]

It will not be a very popular view ( but it is backed up) There are a lot of "Collectors" in N who will buy anything they like - Put a lot of them together and there will be a hot market for almost anything you can think of.
You only have to see the amount of "Rule No 1" layouts at a show to see that N has a very broad church appeal...which is a good thing - but it does explain why all sorts of stuff goes for silly money (if indeed it is silly)

[PLD]

At Auction, the value of an item is slightly more than the second richest/silliest bidder is willing to pay...

For prices to go that high there must be at least two bidders willing to pay high sums. You can't blame the seller for taking advantage of that. Bidders who then complain need to look at their own behaviours.

[Webbo]

Sometimes the last 10 minutes of an auction are dominated by hysteria from 2 bidders who are determined to win the auction and leave all sense behind.

I once sold on EBay a used locomotive that was damaged and repaired to a guy who had the EBay knick name Cowboy Lad.  He had 1 Ebay transaction to his credit and the guy he was bidding against had 3 so you can just imagine what was going though their heads (or not). The winning bid was 4 times what I could have bought the loco for new. In the end, I asked the winner to pay the price of a new loco; that is, about 25% of his winning bid. This was not entirely altruistic on my part as I was concerned that when he realised he had paid far too much he would not pay at all.

The most important thing when bidding on Ebay is to do some homework beforehand, and stay clear of bidding when you've had a glass of wine or two or three or more. 

Webbo

[Duke62]

It's not just N gauge it applies to just about everything on ebay,a few years ago I sold our old woodburning stove the person who bought it kept being outbid and in the end paid a lot more for it then he could have paid for a new one!(not that I was complaining) I can only assume they get the "red mists" and don't like to be beaten,I have seen the same thing at railwayana auctions they want it and the price seems to be no object.   

[ColinH]

I noted some time ago that some eBay prices were above the retail. Not unusual you might think. But the seller I was looking at is a major European N Gauge seller who lists the self-same items on their main website for the lower, usually retail, price.
The eBay items evidently sell (otherwise the seller would not bother listing on eBay in this way) so the seller is quite aware, and taking advantage of the fact, that some folks using eBay perhaps think they are getting a better deal than they would through the standard shop website. (P&P from the shop or through eBay are identical.)

Daffy you have got to remember that the seller will also have ebay fees of 10% to pay on the final price he gets as either as 'buy it now' or 'auction' and the postage charge he makes to the buyer. If he lists the item at the same price as his retail shop he is then losing 10% of his profit margin presuming that he will pay the same fee for accepting payment via PayPal.

Not all ebay sellers are out to fleece the customer.

[daffy]

Daffy you have got to remember that the seller will also have ebay fees of 10% to pay on the final price he gets as either as 'buy it now' or 'auction' and the postage charge he makes to the buyer. If he lists the item at the same price as his retail shop he is then losing 10% of his profit margin presuming that he will pay the same fee for accepting payment via PayPal.

Not all ebay sellers are out to fleece the customer.

Yes, Colin, I fully understood that and have no issue with the retailers. It is the buyers I am critical of, with an apparent belief that prices an eBay are perhaps lower. Why, I ask myself, would anyone pay £100 for an item sold by Joe Soap on eBay that Joe Soap is selling on his own website for £90?

Perhaps, unlike me, they have money to burn, and as long as this type of buyer exists then the retailers will continue to use eBay in this way. Who could blame them? Not I.

[Newportnobby]

As Daffy has alluded to this, I think it's true some people use EBay with the automatic assumption they are getting a bargain. This is, to a great extent, down to lack of knowledge about the product or laziness in not making any investigation as to other sources. It is often the case relatives/friends know something someone wants for a birthday or the dreaded 'C' word, have no idea of the price and so just buy it from EBay.
Of course, it's not just EBay. Some of the major box shifters can be seen trying to sell used goods at a higher price than new ones
I'm sorry, but if somebody is not prepared to hunt around, no matter what they're buying, then the fault lies with them if they get stung.

[Bealman]

I just go to retailer shops 

[broadsword]

Just market forces at work

[Webbo]

If I see an item on EBay that is being sold through a retail outlet from the UK (not naming any names), I go to their website and buy it there. Living here in Oz I get the benefit of a 20% VAT reduction this way versus 0% reduction through an EBay sale. However, if I'm a private seller on EBay, I'm not allowed to sell things I've advertised on EBay without completing the transaction through EBay and being subject to all their fees. This a policy that I have always complied with.

Webbo

[njee20]

It's interesting eBay seem to be doing more 'reduced fee' weekends, I've had two offers for "pay no more than £1 seller fees" in the last month, which is interesting, and makes eBay selling an extremely compelling prospect.

Totally agree that some people pay over the odds just because it's on eBay, particularly with auctions where people get caught up in the bidding fury.

The 26s in the OP do seem a particularly odd specimen though, that's three times the retail price, which is unusual.