Correct wheel sizes, from older pizza cutters to appropriate replacements?

[mickster04]

Hey team. I had a search around and rather than zombifying a really old thread or two that sort of cover the topic, I thought I'd create a new thread that really gets to my issue.

Firstly my assumptions, I assume that all pizza cutter wheels are one size (so poole and early china?) for most wagons? I have PGAs, HEAs, 100t tankers, FFAs and various mk1/2 coaches. I want to replace older wheels with newer ones, mostly for looks, but also for improved running (the flanges are giving me issues) and I assume they are all one size pretty much (coaches might well have bigger ones).

So then I would appreciate a list of current wheel suppliers. I know of N-train, Graham farish do wagon wheels and coach wheels. Parkside Dundas used to do wheels, but they've changed now and their website doesn't let you order for N anymore, and the peco website doesn't let you order either.

Also, if anyone has any good definitions of various wheel diameters for various wagons, also is there a rule about spoked vs holed vs solid wheels?

MK1 coaches should have 7mm?
FFA (container wagons) should have 5.1? tankers too?
what about the two axled wagons, where they all the same? I see lots of posts asking about a specific wagon or coach so I'd be interested in a more collative approach.

What resources are there regarding this kind of information in regard to prototypical specifications?

Thanks all!

Mike

[NTrain]

I still have stocks of my 5.1mm wheels and I have a further batch of the 6.2mm disc wheels being manufactured now.

I have never looked at 7mm wheels, mainly because I have had no requests for them, and the expense of a new range of wheels would have to be factored in.

[Skyline2uk]

Another source of wheels is Peters Spares (Bachmann Farish wheels).

I have just replaced all the old "pizza cutter" wheel sets in my Poole 159 with newer finer equivalents.

Skyline2uk

[martyn]

I used to use Parkside wheels to replace Poole Farish and Peco wheels, but have now changed to using Farish ones; I think they run freer than the Parksides.

If you use 7mm wheels as replacements on coaches, this raises the overall height of the entire coach, and looks wrong, especially against the latest Mk1s or other makers' vehicles; they may also foul the underframe. I use 6.2  plain discs (or even in extremis, 3-hole discs.....)

HTH

martyn

[CarriageShed]

I've used 7.0mm wheels for Farish carriage upgrades and rebuilds with no problems at all. The carriage height seems fine against other rolling stock (no Mk1s though, as I'm modelling 1930). Suppliers have been BR Lines, Etched Pixels, and Graham Farish, mostly based on the best price at time of ordering.

[red_death]

Some common wheelsizes:
BR1/Commonwealth bogies 3ft6 or 3ft7 ie 7mm (most Mk1s and some other stock)
B4 or B5 bogies 3ft ie 6.2mm (all (?) Mk2s and a few Mk1s)
BT10 bogies 3ft or 3ft1 ie 6.2mm (Mk3s)

Mk1 based DMUs all/mostly had 3ft wheels ie 6.2mm

Wagons are much more varied. Some have incredibly small wheels - IIRC the LTF 13 bogies under some FLAs have 540mm discs ie 3.6mm (I don't think anyone does anything that small - possibly some American wheels). The most standard will be 6.2mm but there were plenty that should ideally have 5.1mm wheelsets (eg FFA/FGAs, Cartics etc).  Then there is the question of disc, 3 hole disc etc!

Cheers, Mike

[Jameswgm]

Would the MK4 BT41 be similar to the BT10 at 6.2mm diameter?

[Papyrus]

I'm glad you started this thread, Mike, as I am planning to replace wheelsets on some of my wagons and coaches. However, if I may ask what is probably an obvious question - does the quoted dimension, 5.1mm or 6.2 or whatever, mean the part of the wheel that sits on the track or does it include the flange as well?

Cheers,

Chris

[koyli55002]

Across the wheel only, excluding flanges.
I used to replace my "pizza cutters" with Parkside, but for whatever reason, found the tyres coming off and leading to a lot of derailments. So now it's either Bachfar or else the "speedrollers" from N-Train.

[PLD]

Across the wheel only, excluding flanges.

Being pedantic; yes, but the quoted diameter should be at the point where the tread transitions into the flange... Rail wheels are normally conical so are slightly smaller diameter at the outer face (around 0.4-0.8mm on a typical N gauge wheel set)

[NTrain]

Hope this explains the 6.2mm wheel sizes

[PaulinSouthMidlands]

But there are two different new profile blackened Farish wheel sizes available. 6.2mm (with flanges 7.1) for the older farish stuff  and the 7.1mm wheels with 8mm flanges used on Bachfarn Blue Riband, so which part number is which?

[PLD]

But there are two different new profile blackened Farish wheel sizes available. 6.2mm (with flanges 7.1) for the older farish stuff  and the 7.1mm wheels with 8mm flanges used on Bachfarn Blue Riband, so which part number is which?

Not quite...

There are two different wheel sizes available for products of all parentage...
6.2mm [379-410] for stock where the prototype was fitted with 3ft wheels (including mk3 coaches and most wagons) & 7.1mm [379-412] for stock where the prototype was fitted with 3ft 6in wheels (including Mk1/2 and most older coaches)...

[PaulinSouthMidlands]

But there are two different new profile blackened Farish wheel sizes available. 6.2mm (with flanges 7.1) for the older farish stuff  and the 7.1mm wheels with 8mm flanges used on Bachfarn Blue Riband, so which part number is which?

Not quite...

There are two different wheel sizes available for products of all parentage...
6.2mm [379-410] for stock where the prototype was fitted with 3ft wheels (including mk3 coaches and most wagons) & 7.1mm [379-412] for stock where the prototype was fitted with 3ft 6in wheels (including Mk1/2 and most older coaches)...

Thank you for this. Most useful.

I would contend though that older poole models originally fitted with Pizza cutters had 6.2mm wheels regardless and 7.1mm wheels might cause problems on sharp curves with the wheel clashing with the underframe?

[PLD]

But there are two different new profile blackened Farish wheel sizes available. 6.2mm (with flanges 7.1) for the older farish stuff  and the 7.1mm wheels with 8mm flanges used on Bachfarn Blue Riband, so which part number is which?

Not quite...

There are two different wheel sizes available for products of all parentage...
6.2mm [379-410] for stock where the prototype was fitted with 3ft wheels (including mk3 coaches and most wagons) & 7.1mm [379-412] for stock where the prototype was fitted with 3ft 6in wheels (including Mk1/2 and most older coaches)...

Thank you for this. Most useful.

I would contend though that older poole models originally fitted with Pizza cutters had 6.2mm wheels regardless and 7.1mm wheels might cause problems on sharp curves with the wheel clashing with the underframe?

No, because although the diameter over the tread is larger, the diameter over the finer flange is roughly the same...