Scale Timetable

[chicky365]

I have read that some people like to run their model railway to a timetable so they have a challenge in moving the stock around and keeping trains to time.

As I have no knowledge of this, it got me thinking about how I would do it. I worked out that an average "playtime" would be around an hour, so if I modelled a day between 6am - 12pm, that would give me 18 hours to scale model.

I worked out that if i made each hour equal to 3 minutes in real time that would make about 54 minutes of playtime. This also scales down well as 20 minutes equals to 1 minute in realtime.

I have been looking to see if I can find some sort of scale clock (digital or analogue) , either as an online one or as a download that could run a clock to these times but I cannot find anything i could use.

Does anyone know of anything or how does everyone else use scale time to run their timetable or do you just estimate the departure times?

[Newportnobby]

@Innovationgame

It looks like Laurence has gone a fair way down the timetable route so maybe he can help you.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34324.msg399203#msg399203

[PLD]

As I have no knowledge of this, it got me thinking about how I would do it. I worked out that an average "playtime" would be around an hour, so if I modelled a day between 6am - 12pm, that would give me 18 hours to scale model.

I worked out that if i made each hour equal to 3 minutes in real time that would make about 54 minutes of playtime. This also scales down well as 20 minutes equals to 1 minute in realtime.

Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that - you can't 'scale down' time...

Either Distances are scaled down and time stays constant, or Distance is constant and Time is scaled up.

For example a Prototype train travelling at 60mph travels one mile in one minute. To travel at a matching scale 60mph the N-gauge model needs to travel 1 real mile in 148 minutes (2 hrs 28) or 1/148th of a mile in 1 real-time minute.

If you try to equate 3 minutes on the model to one real time one hour, your model needs to travel 60/148 of a real mile (approx 0.4 miles) in 3 minutes which is just over 8 real miles per hour or the equivalent of the prototype doing a speed of approx 1200 mph...

[austinbob]

As I have no knowledge of this, it got me thinking about how I would do it. I worked out that an average "playtime" would be around an hour, so if I modelled a day between 6am - 12pm, that would give me 18 hours to scale model.

I worked out that if i made each hour equal to 3 minutes in real time that would make about 54 minutes of playtime. This also scales down well as 20 minutes equals to 1 minute in realtime.

Unfortunately it doesn't quite work like that - you can't 'scale down' time...

Either Distances are scaled down and time stays constant, or Distance is constant and Time is scaled up.

For example a Prototype train travelling at 60mph travels one mile in one minute. To travel at a matching scale 60mph the N-gauge model needs to travel 1 real mile in 148 minutes (2 hrs 28) or 1/148th of a mile in 1 real-time minute.

If you try to equate 3 minutes on the model to one real time one hour, your model needs to travel 60/148 of a real mile (approx 0.4 miles) in 3 minutes which is just over 8 real miles per hour or the equivalent of the prototype doing a speed of approx 1200 mph...

My brain hurts!! I'm gonna watch Back to the future again and see if I can figure this out!!

[MJKERR]

Simple answer
Do NOT Scale down time
There is NO need to scale down time

If you want to run in real time, then your layout MUST be reliable and/or have the ability to "stop the clock"

Alternatively, run a clock card or card sequence
That way you can run for as little or as much time as you have

My (Monday to Saturday) timetable for Glasgow Queen Street starts at 04:00 and ends at 00:30 (20 hours and 30 minutes)
In real time there are spells when nothing happens, so using a clock card will work best
Equally, there are times when I want lunch or a rest!

[Greybeema]

I started to work through a 24hr timetable for Northfleet. It's not that easy.

I took the real timetable (inc non passenger movements) that was available on the web somewhere (can't remember but google it) and lodged in into a spreadsheet. 

I then tidied it up so that the trains represented the trains I had.  I have added the loco I prefer to use and the next step would be to add the starting storage siding and the final storage siding.

The longest break between trains on the main line, Up & Down, was 8 minutes  which if you have to stage another train doesn't give you anytime.

I never finished it as I came to the conclusion I need more storage, so that's where Northfleet stands at the moment - awaiting it's redesign...

[Innovationgame]

I've not produced a model timetable from a real timetable but from my experience of constructing a working timetable you need to do the following:

1. List all the trains you want to run - try to have nearly the same number of UP movements and DOWN movements.
2. Decide at what scale speed you would like each train to run (1mph in the real world equates to 0.3 cm/s in an N-gauge model)
3. Decide on the time for acceleration and deceleration. - in the real world, it takes about 2 minutes but, unless you have a very,VERY, large layout, I would suggest about 10 - 20 seconds
4. Work out the distance from your hidden sidings (or fiddle yard) to the station and from the station back to the hidden sidings
5. Calculate the time for each train to reach the station and to get back to the hidden sidings, allowing twice the time for each acceleration and deceleration
6. Timetable the trains to keep things on the move, preferably with an up and down movement happening at the same time (although not necessarily synchronised)

This may sound complicated, but it should work and be a challenge to produce a working timetable

[chicky365]

Thanks for the advice, I hadnt really considered scale speeds etc....

In my mind I was going to try and run trains to a fixed time, I wasnt that bothered about being accurate with the speed/distance.

My layout is a loop with 4 stations, so I was going to have trains leaving the main terminus at set times. As i have Eurostars I would have them leaving at 6am and then they would disappear off the layout. I would then need to have one return about 4 hours later (12 minutes real time) so arrive back, hopefully) at the right time. If I hadnt kept to time with other trains in between, then the Eurostar could be late back in.

I dont have a fiddle yard so I was thinking I would need to design a timetable where all the trains are already on the layout, whether in a station or sitting in sidings. I have a branchline for preserved steam and these tranis would need to arrive at a station at the right time to meet up with a mainline train. Think I will need to test it, as it the only way to see if theres too much going on at once.

[NinOz]

If you want a fast clock for running to a time table then there are a few options.
Logitec fast clock for loconet (what I use)
Free one for a PC, laptop
Cheap one for ipad, iphone
More expensive one for for ipad, iphone
Free one for Microsoft phone
JMRI
Plus others

[chicky365]

Brilliant thank you

Now Ive found out they are called "Fast Clocks" I managed to find this excellent one that lets you add your timetable entries as events.

It does run on Windows 7 but you may need to run it in XP compatibility mode

http://www.dotric.com.au/trains/FastClock.htm

[edwin_m]

A fast clock can be useful when you have one station and trains in reality wouldn't be really frequent, so for example a half-hourly service would run every 3min if the clock ran ten times fast. 

It can also be used on a layout with several stations but (as with most layouts) not the scale distance of track between them.  Consider for example two stations five miles apart in reality or imagination, but with only 0.5 scale miles of track separating them on the layout (about six yards).  The "real" timetable could have trains taking 5min between stations, an average speed of 60mph, but with your fast clock a train could run at approximately the same average speed (scaled down) so look realistic in terms of the time it takes to travel its own length etc.  But going by the fast clock it would still take about five minutes to get from one station to the next.  If you didn't use a fast clock you'd have to run the train at a snail's pace for it to spend that long, or perhaps stop it on a hidden section in between, or accept that the timetable isn't realistic in how long it takes to get between stations. 

What the fast clock can't do is represent actions of the same train within the same station.  Say the train was scheduled to wait 1min in the station - reducing this to 6 seconds would just look silly!  Even more so if say the loco was scheduled to take 2min to run round the train.  So it's probably best just to schedule the departure time on the clock and carry out the other actions going by what looks right. 

[Greybeema]

I would suggest you work out a sequence for you trains first. Then just practice running them in that sequence. 

Once comfortable then try running it to time working out what sort of timing you are happy with.  When you are happy with all that try running to time against an ordinary clock.

If you want a tighter time table then compress the time between each train. 

[Caz]

I know I keep sounding on about the Railroad & Co Train Controller software but it is absolutely superb as amongst other things in has a variable clock and timetable operation built in. 

You can set the scale time to anything you want, I've set my to one tenth so 1 hours works out as six minutes.  For instance, all I did was input a Fairford timetable with the actual times, the software scales it all down and all I have to do is pre select which trains (you can even do this automatically if you want) and off it trundles, starting and stopping all the trains in all the right places at the right times.  Once it reaches its destination, say Fairford, the shunting schedules take over and the train is spilt up and parked in all the right places plus the loco goes off to the shed to be turned etc. 

When the loco or train is needed again, again the schedules do it all, bring the loco out of the shed, move the carriages/trucks and push them into the station ready for the off.  Bloody brilliant.

Yes, it does take a lot of forethought but the end result in my opinion is well worth it.

Calms down and goes back to sleep   

[Newportnobby]

Stuff Rule 1, but is there a Rule 2 - "I'll run what I want when I want?"

[Bealman]

Electronics freaks can build their own fast clock. There's a few designs out there.

My hero, the legendary Peter Denny was a genius at this sort of thing. In 1972 he built an electromechanical computer out of Meccano and electric motors which used a roll of punched paper to despatch and receive trains from and to the fiddle yard, ring the appropriate bell codes, and more!

Pure genius.