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Author Topic: Marton Hinmarche  (Read 308263 times)

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Offline Innovationgame

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4350 on: June 30, 2020, 07:52:14 PM »
Today, we began with our weekly trip to J Sainsbury and then continued with a walk into the back end of Hessle returning via the river.  After dinner, I manage another session in the Train Shed, where I continued with the magnet project.  First, I found my strip of Peco frets, together with the bogie to be modified and some Superglue gel.  I added one of the tiny magnets to one of the frets (two actually, because it is easier to add more that one and then remove the other(s) later).



Here’s the fret with the two magnets added.



I removed the coupling from the bogie and fixed the spring in position with a tiny spot of Superglue.  Then I added the fret to the coupling.



However, that was when my problems began.  I found it impossible to replace the coupling into the bogie housing with the fret in place.  So in the end, I had to remove the fret to be able to reinsert the coupling into its housing.  Worse was to follow.  I then couldn’t get the fret back onto the coupling because the magnet was about a millimetre in from the end and wouldn’t fit over the end of the coupling housing.  But, as usual, it is a question of two steps forward and on backwards, which is better than one forwards and two backwards.  I have prised magnet away from the fret and refitted it, but I will wait until tomorrow for the Superglue to cure fully.

It was then that I was able to turn my attention to the special excursion to North Cornwall.  Here are the first two coaches of the train.  The first is a standard class Mk1 BR coach in crimson and cream, while the second is a BR Mk1 restaurant car, also in crimson and cream.



The final two coaches are a first class BR Mk1 coach in WR livery, followed by a full brake (the guard’s van) in crimson and cream, which will convey the ample luggage of Baron Tiverton and his party.



I hope they reach North Cornwall without too much of a delay.  Tomorrow, I will soldier on with the couplings.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4351 on: July 01, 2020, 05:41:47 PM »
It was a damp start today, but we managed to walk to the butchers and back without any real rain.  We had planned to have a couple of U3A members around this afternoon to play table tennis on the back lawn but, because we had a lot of rain overnight and we were promised more this afternoon, we called it off by mutual agreement.  However, I didn’t get down to the Train Shed this morning because I have been trying to get all my ducks in a row for the council meeting this evening.

The council website has to be WCAG 2.1 compliant by September (WCAG stands for Website Content Accessibility Guidelines).  Because of my familiarity with website design and construction, I have been tasked with requesting and evaluating quotes for the work.  So I have been busy this morning ensuring that I had got to grips with Zoom screen sharing and getting all the relevant documents ready to display to the committee.

After dinner, we went off to a garden centre to have a look at obelisks for the sweet peas.  At the moment, they are growing up wigwams of 8ft canes, but we would like something more attractive and permanent.  We saw the sort of thing we would like, although getting them into the car might have proved difficult.  However, after we returned home, I found the same ones online at more or less the same price with free delivery, so I ordered them.  I was then able to visit the Train Shed before it was time for a cup of tea.

I decided that I would remarshal a couple of trains before setting about the coupling again.  This time, I decided to take it very slowly and simply add the fret to the coupling and apply a little cyanoacrylate gel.  Here’s a side view of the bogie, showing the fret placed on the coupling after the adhesive was applied.



And here’s another view, from the top.  In this picture, if you look carefully, you can see the tiny magnet at the tip of the fret.



At this point I thought I would leave the Train Shed to avoid the temptation of trying to operate the coupling before the Superglue had cured fully.  I did check that the coupling would move freely, allowing the fret to lift away from the body of the bogie (although, in reality, it was upside down and so, when used in anger, it would move downwards towards the track).  So I returned to the house and had a cup of tea.

Tomorrow, I hope to be able to move on to the next phase, where I will start experimenting with the magnets embedded in the track.  I may need to use magnets that are less powerful, because the original ones were to operate frets with no magnet attached.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

Offline Hailstone

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4352 on: July 01, 2020, 06:20:55 PM »
I prefer the Gaugemaster arms as they are longer and the pull point is directly below the axle, which is even more important on wagons (but they must be annealed before you bend them)

Regards,

Alex

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4353 on: July 02, 2020, 06:41:02 AM »
I have Gaugemaster frets as well, but I find the Peco ones a bit easier to fit.  Also, because I have added a magnet to the end of the fret, I need to keep it away from the steel axles, otherwise it might prefer the axles to the buried magnet.  It's all still an experiment at the moment, but I think I'm gradually getting closer to a final solution (don't mention gassing the badgers - with apologies to Private Eye).
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4354 on: July 02, 2020, 07:58:51 PM »
Thursday is our play day, but today dawned wet and cold and it was forecast to continue raining all morning.  So we decided to stay in this morning and try for a little adventure after dinner.  By time the rain eventually stopped, I had recorded m less than 18.6mm, making a total of 24.2mm for the first two days of the month.  That gave me a little time to venture down to the Train Shed in the rain.  I was able to fit the modified bogie back onto the coach and test the lift of the coupling over one of the embedded magnets.



As can be seen, it all worked very well, but there was a drawback.  The end of the fret was pulled down so far that it wouldn’t clear the cutaway in the sleepers for the buried magnet.  The next plan was to insert a piece of 0.5mm Plasticard over the magnet, which prevented the fret from catching on the next sleeper.  However, the pull from the buried magnet was so great that the loco did not have enough umph to pull the coach away from the buried magnet.  So another rethink was required.  I tried progressively weaker magnets, but they were all too strong.  In the end, I fixed one of the larger tiny magnets between two sleepers.



The reason you can see two is that I have found that it is best to use a couple of them to apply the adhesive and then remove the surplus one later, when the cyanoacrylate has fully cured.  That completed the morning’s escapade in the Train Shed.

After dinner, the rain stopped and we ventured out to Mappleton, which is south of Hornsea.  The council put a sea defence scheme in place some thirty years ago, comprising hundreds of boulders of between one a two tons each, to protect the cliffs, which are made of little more than mud and had been eroded massively in the preceding years.  We had a nice walk back and forth along both the beach and the cliff before we walked around the village.  Prior to our move to Yorkshire, we had looked at a house in Mappleton, although we never made an appointment to view it.

When we returned home I made a cup of tea and then returned to the Train Shed for another short visit.  I checked the magnet that I had installed between the sleeper but, unfortunately, the Superglue hadn’t worked its magic and had to be redone.  Then I started on the next coupling.  I removed the bogie from the coach, which you can see in its cradle (a sort of inverted lifting shop) and cut a new fret from the Peco former.  I added a tiny magnet to the fret and left it, weighted down, for the cyanoacrylate to cure.



While all this was going on, I left 9744 and 6417 to tail chase.  9744 now seems OK with the acceleration set back to normal although, in the interim, I did clean its wheels with IPA and kitchen roll.  6417 still needs some attention and I may finish up cleaning its wheels as well.  Tomorrow, I hope to be able to test the hidden tiny magnet system.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

Online chrism

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4355 on: July 03, 2020, 06:41:07 AM »
As can be seen, it all worked very well, but there was a drawback.  The end of the fret was pulled down so far that it wouldn’t clear the cutaway in the sleepers for the buried magnet.  The next plan was to insert a piece of 0.5mm Plasticard over the magnet, which prevented the fret from catching on the next sleeper.  However, the pull from the buried magnet was so great that the loco did not have enough umph to pull the coach away from the buried magnet.  So another rethink was required.  I tried progressively weaker magnets, but they were all too strong.  In the end, I fixed one of the larger tiny magnets between two sleepers.

When using the fret arms as intended, you're supposed to bend them into a curve so that when the coupling's pulled right up the end of the arm is horizontal and just rests on any sleepers without digging in.

That said I never succeeded in getting the angles and curves just right, as well as having difficulty getting the things stuck securely to a coupling, which is why I switched to magnets. I do have the advantage over you, though, in that my below track ones are electromagnets so only work when the switch is held down. However, that doesn't make for automatic operation which you are trying to achieve.

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4356 on: July 03, 2020, 07:51:52 AM »
When using the fret arms as intended, you're supposed to bend them into a curve so that when the coupling's pulled right up the end of the arm is horizontal and just rests on any sleepers without digging in.

That said I never succeeded in getting the angles and curves just right, as well as having difficulty getting the things stuck securely to a coupling, which is why I switched to magnets. I do have the advantage over you, though, in that my below track ones are electromagnets so only work when the switch is held down. However, that doesn't make for automatic operation which you are trying to achieve.
Thanks Chris.  I still have some frets without magnets and they are curved and doubled to produce enough attraction.  But they are unrelieble and, often, I have to reverse the train back over the magnet to effect uncoupling.  However, I can't bend them once I have fitted a tiny magnet otherwise the magnet won't fit behind the coupling housing and the coupling will never couple up.  But I think my current development programme will produce the result I want.  Watch this space.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4357 on: July 03, 2020, 08:13:30 AM »
Thanks Chris.  I still have some frets without magnets and they are curved and doubled to produce enough attraction.  But they are unrelieble and, often, I have to reverse the train back over the magnet to effect uncoupling.  However, I can't bend them once I have fitted a tiny magnet otherwise the magnet won't fit behind the coupling housing and the coupling will never couple up.  But I think my current development programme will produce the result I want.  Watch this space.

Of course, I was forgetting that you're effectively increasing the thickness of the arm.

Would it be possible to fit the magnet a bit further forward on the arm and bend the arm upwards beyond the magnet so that, even if the end does drop below the sleeper tops it has a sort of ramp to allow it to slide up and over the sleepers?

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4358 on: July 03, 2020, 11:40:25 AM »
Of course, I was forgetting that you're effectively increasing the thickness of the arm.

Would it be possible to fit the magnet a bit further forward on the arm and bend the arm upwards beyond the magnet so that, even if the end does drop below the sleeper tops it has a sort of ramp to allow it to slide up and over the sleepers?
I'm working on it. Chris.  I'll keep you up to date with progress.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4359 on: July 03, 2020, 07:10:03 PM »
Today began with some rain but, by the time we were ready to walk in to Hessle to the butchers, it had pretty well stopped, so we were OK.  Of course, Friday is domestic chores day and so I didn’t get down to the Train Shed until this afternoon.  Once more, I turned my attention to the magnetic uncoupling system.  The magnet that I had installed in the Shipton loop yesterday worked a treat. 



But it was still too powerful for the loco to pull the train away again.  I even tried adding a layer of Plasticard above it, but the poor loco just sat there with its wheels spinning.  So I need to find a way to reduce the magnetic pull further.  I installed two more test magnets, a very tiny one between the sleepers and one of the slightly larger ones, that I had previously installed between the sleepers, as shown above, but this time in the well that had been excavated for the large magnets that I used with the bare fret system.



Then I turned my attention to adding the fret with the magnet fitted to the bogie of the other coach.



In all three cases, I need to wait until tomorrow to ensure the cyanoacrylate gel has fully cured.  In the meantime, while all this was going on, I continued to run 9744 and 6417 around the mainline.  9744 appears to be OK now with its acceleration set back to normal, but 6417 needed even more running.  I have cleaned the wheels of both using IPA and kitchen roll and I will see how they get on tomorrow.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4360 on: July 04, 2020, 07:36:38 PM »
It was a very disappointing day in the Train Shed today, but the garden news is somewhat better, although there is good news and bad news.  However, we started with a longer than usual walk to deliver a note to one of the U3A group leaders.  Celia sent an Email out to all the group leaders but, unfortunately, there is one who doesn’t have Email, so we had to deliver it by hand.  After coffee, there were still a couple of weekly jobs that needed completing and then, after dinner, I worked in the garden.

The bad news is that our raspberries are very disappointing this year.  I picked a few but several canes have died after initially looking healthy and producing flowers.  Our carrots have been very disappointing also.  They all started really well but, a couple of weeks ago, during the hot weather, about half of them suddenly died, mainly in the rows at one end of the bed.  Those that have survived look really healthy and the parsnips are doing really well.  We have had our first three cherries off our new cherry tree.  We planted it last year and it had some flowers this year and, eventually there were six cherries.  It has grafts of two different varieties and the first three were eaten today.  They were delicious and the other three are of the other variety, but are not ready yet.

We have also had some disappointment with the potatoes.  Two of the first earlies developed Black Leg and I pulled the greenery up and disposed of it.  Then another started to look very sick.  None of the earlies have flowered apart from one of the first earlies, which is much taller that the rest.  However, the main crop potatoes are all in full flower and some are already spawning green seed pods.  But we decided to risk not buying any more potatoes and I got to work with my little fork.  The sick looking plant yielded quite a few potatoes, so I also investigated the two roots of the blacklegs (so to speak).  One yielded some smallish, but useful, new potatoes and the other had a few small ones.  We should have enough to last until next weekend.  So we are having our first new potatoes for tea.

On the good news front, I picked four and a quarter pounds of peas today.  Some of those are for tea as well.  I also picked some more Tayberries and we have now equalled the record for the amount picked since we moved here.  We have also picked more strawberries than for about four years.  Also, we now have quite a few baby runner beans on the sticks so, in a couple of weeks, we should begin to enjoy this year’s new crop.  We still have beans left in the freezer from last year, but we plan to finish those before we start on this year’s beans.

There is also good news from the other root bed, where we have a couple of turnips ready to pull, so we won’t need to buy any this week.  In addition, the Greyhound cabbage are nearing the stage when we can start cutting them, so that’s more good news.  But down at the Train Shed it’s not so good.

For all the work I have been doing on the automatic coupling project, I have been defeated be the inverse square law.  The problem is that, if the attraction between the magnets is sufficient to operate the couplings, once activated, the attraction becomes so great that the loco cannot pull the coupling away from the buried magnet.  So I have given up on that idea and I am returning to repulsion again.  The ordinary frets work OK with the buried magnets, after a fashion, but the uncoupling action is not particularly reliable.  However, the locos are able to pull the couplings back off the buried magnets. 

I tried repulsion before moving to attraction, but I found that to be less reliable.  However, I now have some stronger magnets.  But the acid test will be to see if the Farish couplings twist under the influence of repulsion.  If so, I may have to think about installing a different type of coupling.  But that will be a problem for the small prairies because their pony trucks are not particularly stable and, if the couplings are changed, it may be impossible to get the pony trucks to stay on the rails.

However, there was some good Train Shed news today (yesterday, actually, but I forgot to mention it).  The precision cut plywood that I ordered at the end of May will be delivered on Monday morning.  Of course, I have a Zoom committee meeting on Monday morning but, if the wood arrives during the meeting, I will simply have to leave the meeting and get on with offloading and storing the wood.  Then I will be in a position to start on my test track baseboard.  I should have enough track but I’m not sure about points.  I think I have the two that I will need for the first board.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4361 on: July 04, 2020, 07:46:20 PM »
Enjoy those potatoes Laurence. To my mind, new potatoes cannot be beaten straight from the ground.
We’ve been eating ours for three weeks or so now.
Tomorrow we’ll have the very first runners plus second picking of broad beans (which I particularly enjoy when young and tender).
Our man concern this season is butternut squashes. We normally do really well with them but for some reason ours are not really developing this time.

If it looks right then it most probably is right.


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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4362 on: July 05, 2020, 06:28:31 AM »
Enjoy those potatoes Laurence. To my mind, new potatoes cannot be beaten straight from the ground.
We’ve been eating ours for three weeks or so now.
Tomorrow we’ll have the very first runners plus second picking of broad beans (which I particularly enjoy when young and tender).
Our man concern this season is butternut squashes. We normally do really well with them but for some reason ours are not really developing this time.
Well that's gardening for you!  It's also been a strange year for weather, so who knows.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4363 on: July 05, 2020, 07:02:15 AM »
For all the work I have been doing on the automatic coupling project, I have been defeated be the inverse square law.  The problem is that, if the attraction between the magnets is sufficient to operate the couplings, once activated, the attraction becomes so great that the loco cannot pull the coupling away from the buried magnet.  So I have given up on that idea and I am returning to repulsion again.  The ordinary frets work OK with the buried magnets, after a fashion, but the uncoupling action is not particularly reliable.  However, the locos are able to pull the couplings back off the buried magnets. 

Even with my magnets set up to be repelled by electromagnets, I have to be careful not to use too strong a magnet or combination of magnets otherwise the blighters attract themselves to a de-energised electromagnet and stop the loco dead  :(

Quote
I tried repulsion before moving to attraction, but I found that to be less reliable.  However, I now have some stronger magnets.  But the acid test will be to see if the Farish couplings twist under the influence of repulsion. 

If you put the magnets on the shanks of the couplings they should be on the centreline so, in theory, shouldn't twist the couplings - although I'm not sure if you'll get a straight lift where your uncoupling magnets are on curves.

Quote
If so, I may have to think about installing a different type of coupling.  But that will be a problem for the small prairies because their pony trucks are not particularly stable and, if the couplings are changed, it may be impossible to get the pony trucks to stay on the rails.

I've had to accept that some locos simply can't be done without modification. My Farish Ivatt 2MT mogul is a prime example. At the front, if I apply sufficient magnet power to lift the coupling, it throws the pony truck off every time, whilst the tender coupling won't lift high enough at all. I think it's fouling either on the buffer beam lower edge or on the drawhook and/or vacuum hose.

It's on my "to do" list to investigate that end, whilst I've accepted that it can't be done at the front. If I can fix the tender end I'll simply put it on the track smokebox towards Coniston and not use it for any shunting at the smokebox end without a "barrier" wagon that can remain attached to the loco and drop the rest by splitting the train.

Provided the 2MT can take a train to Coniston and uncouple from it that'll be sufficient. It can then take a train back to Broughton and beyond tender first and be manually uncoupled in the fiddle yard


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Re: Marton Hinmarche
« Reply #4364 on: July 05, 2020, 07:27:49 AM »
Thanks @chrism

I can't put magnets on my branch locos, at  least not the small prairies, because the pony trucks just won't work with them.  So I'm puttng therm on the coaches.  I also have trouble with the paniers because the arms won't physically lift far enough to decouple, with or without a magnet.  So, if I eventually get a reliable system, I will need to put some lead in the end brake vans to keep them on the track.  It's all good fun.  :no:
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
Coventry Corporation Transport Society: www.cct-society.org.uk
Hessle: www.hessle.org.uk

 

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