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Author Topic: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons  (Read 42433 times)

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ScottyStitch

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2016, 10:51:49 AM »
Getting back to the KFAs (I know, guilty as charged), I'm curious. Knowing not that much about such modern skeleton wagons, are these different from those that carry the Tesco and Asda containers from Mossend to Aberdeen and Inverness?

Offline njee20

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2016, 10:54:28 AM »
Getting back to the KFAs (I know, guilty as charged), I'm curious. Knowing not that much about such modern skeleton wagons, are these different from those that carry the Tesco and Asda containers from Mossend to Aberdeen and Inverness?

Dunno about Asda, but the Tesco/Stobart flow uses IKA Megafret wagons, which Dapol make. They're in permanently coupled pairs. Quite different to the KFAs.   

ScottyStitch

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2016, 10:56:53 AM »
Getting back to the KFAs (I know, guilty as charged), I'm curious. Knowing not that much about such modern skeleton wagons, are these different from those that carry the Tesco and Asda containers from Mossend to Aberdeen and Inverness?

Dunno about Asda, but the Tesco/Stobart flow uses IKA Megafret wagons, which Dapol make. They're in permanently coupled pairs. Quite different to the KFAs.

Thanks, I'm sure the Asda ones are on the same as Tesco are.

Online Ben A

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2016, 12:01:34 PM »

Hi there,

The megafrets were introduced when hi-cube containers, that are 9'6" tall, started to become widely used.  They are too high for our loading gauge, so wagons were needed with lowered decks.

The first solution was the pocket wagon, and this is still in use but limited to 40' containers due to the length of the pocket.  Megafrets, euro-twins and other similar wagons can carry longer 45' hi-cube containers.  I think the Asda containers are this type.  Recently I believe some 50' containers were introduced.

Having said that, key intermodal routes from Southampton and Felixstowe have been adapted to the larger European gauge which allows wagons with the "normal" deck height to carry high cube containers.

The position of the ISO twistlocks on KFAs limits them to 40', 30' and 20' containers.   This isn't a huge problem at the moment because for deep sea containers by far the most common is the 40'. 

There seem to be very few 30' containers in use; those I have seen are predominantly specialist tank containers such as the Rugby Cement ones.

cheers

Ben A.



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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2016, 12:04:39 PM »
Hello all,

Mickster:  The wagons were built in two batches.  The first 40 came in 1987 and were used initially to take contaminated spoil from Chatham docks to Stewartby refuse site in Bedforshre.   They were coded PFA and had pale blue GPS bogies. 

Cheers

Ben A.

Hey good luck with these guys, at least you're getting closer to my era of 75-85  ;) ;)

Cheers

Neal.

Online Richard G Dallimore

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2016, 01:32:25 PM »
Look I know how much time and effort Ben and Mike put into this I have done it on my own. I lost several 100 hours of my life on the mermaid plus hard earn't cash. I personnel think they are on the right path sticking to what they know, problems always occur when you try to be a Jake of all trades. Which is why I returned to what I knew and choose the mermaid i.e. GWR/WR. But I priced it very low to encourage backers, kept my goal as low as possible, signed up 3 retailers, was likely to make no profit and may have had to find any short fall myself. The mermaid covered the whole of the late GWR region the whole of BRWR area traveled, spread out over the Midland, Scottish, Eastern and possible Southern regions, into Sectorisation, EWS and into preservation. Yet models were still very reluctant to back it and once DJ Models announced theirs would be on sale by April this year several cancelled pledges and pledging stopped. This is despite mine being cheaper, DJ Models having produced nothing in N Gauge at the time.

So yes I think Ben and Mike are right the Transition era and before modelers are reluctant to put money up front for model unseen (that was quoted to me several times). Stick to what you know, I certainly won't be back as I have better thinks to waste my time on. :(
Regards
Richard
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Offline Arrachogaidh

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2016, 04:25:49 PM »
Definitely think the ICI wagon would be one to look at.  It would appeal to so many.  I agree that transition modellers are fairly well stocked in N for private owner wagons etc, however, it would be nice to see a Ferry Van and also a cartic as well.  Maybe even a rectangle tank wagon as these aren't produced in N scale.  I could even suggest some nice Pullman Coaches as the only ones we have at present are the MK1 pullmans.  Not sure how they'd fair though with regards to licensing with the crests etc?


As I first mentioned Pullman Cars, here is a listing of various generations :~

http://www.britishrailways.info/pullman_cars.htm
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Offline CaleyDave

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2016, 11:00:13 PM »
For the record here's some prototype information from the book titled Wagon Recognition Volume 1 by Martin Buck and Mark Rawlinson.

Details following are operator, TOPS prefix and range(s) of running numbers

Roxby binliner - GMC - 92500 to 92542 and 92580 to 92588
Freightliner/MOD - RLS - 92547 to 92562 and 92611 to  92651
Avon binliner - AVON - 92563 to 92579
Freightliner/MOD - TIPH - 93292 to 93489
Edinburgh binliner - EDC - 95240 to 95431

HTH

Oh dear just when I thought I may be able to get away with 1 or 2 in Freightliner to add to the end of the rake and keep things cheap.
Will see if I am able to catch the Edinburgh binliners next week and get some photos or a video to confirm this is the case!

Considering my justification for the TEA's was they operated 'locally', at around 25 miles away, I guess I will need to get a few given they operate only about 2 miles away. This may just have gotten more expensive.

:NGFWagonTour:

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #68 on: March 29, 2016, 02:44:42 PM »
the ones we are doing (TIPH prefix) are those listed with Freightliner and MOD, but are also in use with DBS and GBRf.

Ben,

From your earlier statement would I be right in saying that you're only doing the TIPH prefixed wagons? 

If so that means for anyone wanting a binliner rake e.g. CaleyDave they'll need to invoke Rule 1 in addition to finding a source of containers.  Rule 1 would really be required for the Edinburgh ones as the real things have TOPS panels and handwheels in different positions.

Nigel

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #69 on: March 29, 2016, 03:07:40 PM »
Hi Nigel,

Yes, we are doing the Tiphook (Finnish built) versions as they are the most numerous, and from my research have seen the most varied use.

I think it also depends on your definition of Rule 1.  Using a Farish freight liner flat - wrong TOPS code, no buffers, wrong (fictional) bogies, is what I would consider Rule 1.

Using a flat with the same TOPS code, shape and bogies, albeit from a different batch, is considerably less of a compromise in my view!

The differences that I have spotted between the Standard Wagon and the Rautaruukki built versions are the buffer shape, handbrakewheel type, presence of ferry hooks, shape of deck strengthening fillets and positioning of some elements of air brake equipment

I think fitting new buffers, changing the brake wheel, removing the ferry hooks and moving the TOPS panel, while fairly simple, would create a wagon that satisfies 99% of viewers.

Of course, if you're in the 1% who can't accept those compromises then fair enough!

Also I understand the Tiphook wagons have been used on spoil/waste traffic, though I am not sure which specific flows yet.

Cheers

Ben A.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 03:09:07 PM by Ben A »



Offline njee20

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #70 on: March 29, 2016, 03:43:54 PM »
Quote
I think it also depends on your definition of Rule 1.  Using a Farish freight liner flat - wrong TOPS code, no buffers, wrong (fictional) bogies, is what I would consider Rule 1.

Using a flat with the same TOPS code, shape and bogies, albeit from a different batch, is considerably less of a compromise in my view!

+1

Unless you want to model the exact fleet numbers on a given day, with the correct loco, that's a bloody close offering!

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #71 on: March 29, 2016, 05:09:30 PM »
As Buzzard pointed out, the wagons are slightly different. The proposed "Version 1" As delivered look to be the closest.

Long story short I found my self up town today and made my way East to see if I could catch the Binliners. I Got lucky as when I approached the wall I found them behind a 67 in Caledonian sleeper Livery just starting to pull away from a signal.

http://youtu.be/K9xnST46OCc


Look forward to further research and information.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 05:10:49 PM by CaleyDave »

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #72 on: March 29, 2016, 05:15:55 PM »
A very uniform spacing of containers, 2 per wagon with the front position empty, or is it that 3 containers won't fit?

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline acko22

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #73 on: March 29, 2016, 05:29:10 PM »
Not sure if there is a difference in the containers but I know the Northernden Bin flats and the ones from Salford always go full may be a case of there wasn't a full load of c  :censored: p this weekend it was a bank holiday after all!

Although Mike and Ben wouldn't be able to tell it was a bank holiday after York  :'(
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 05:30:19 PM by acko22 »

Offline jpendle

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Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
« Reply #74 on: March 29, 2016, 05:40:38 PM »
Hi Acko,

I was referring to the Edinburgh bin liner in the video.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

 

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