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Author Topic: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1  (Read 21964 times)

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Offline NeMo

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2015, 04:45:12 PM »
I think the idea of having no set number / name on and a set of names and numbers on a sheet is a good idea.

I disagree. Not because I don't like the idea; I do.

But an EM1 model will live or die depending on how well it appeals to collectors. Almost nobody models the electrified MSW line, so I doubt there's pent-up demand for the model among the sorts of people who renumber stuff.

Unnumbered models don't sell at the best of times. But they especially don't sell to collectors, who want a finished model they can stick in a display cabinet or let loose on their layout purely for the fun of seeing it run.

FWIW, I'd buy a ready-to-run EM1 in a heartbeat. Love the look of them.

Cheers, NeMo
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Offline Ben Line 457

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2015, 04:49:47 PM »

Minor point 76022 was dual braked not vacuum only.


Hi Paul,

When I said 022 was my favourite 'Vo' I didn't mean vacuum only - although the letters could be mistaken that way - I was referring to the nickname 'Vo's' which I always thought was for all EM1/76's?

Offline PaulCheffus

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2015, 04:50:52 PM »

Minor point 76022 was dual braked not vacuum only.


Hi Paul,

When I said 022 was my favourite 'Vo' I didn't mean vacuum only - although the letters could be mistaken that way - I was referring to the nickname 'Vo's' which I always thought was for all EM1/76's?

Hi

Not heard that one before as far as I am aware they were always called Tommies.

Cheers

Paul
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Offline DJM Dave

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2015, 04:55:30 PM »
Hi mate,

No I wouldn't ask anyone else for their cad cams as to put right what's wrong, would be more time consuming than starting from scratch.

The only person I would ask for help from would be Charlie Petty.
He's the guru with the woodhead electrics in my humble.

Cheers
Dave
N gauge Model Railway locomotive and rolling stock manufacturer.

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2015, 05:03:23 PM »


But an EM1 model will live or die depending on how well it appeals to collectors. Almost nobody models the electrified MSW line, so I doubt there's pent-up demand for the model among the sorts of people who renumber stuff.


Nemo,

I know what you mean, if I was given the option between a numbered version and a non numbered option, I would go for a numbered option. But that bee said in this case with the EM/79 as Dave said he would in reality would only do a small un as it is very niche.

The issue then comes cost and in reality for such a small run even doing a since number will be expensive so then having to split it down again will only add to cost. Now what them costs will be err god knows! So it would help in keeping them costs down.

I do know what you mean from the collectors aspect but with such a small run I would say that this is nullified to some degree, whilst still keeping the model to a price those that want one will happily pay!

Offline 7P5F

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2015, 05:22:27 PM »

Minor point 76022 was dual braked not vacuum only.


Hi Paul,

When I said 022 was my favourite 'Vo' I didn't mean vacuum only - although the letters could be mistaken that way - I was referring to the nickname 'Vo's' which I always thought was for all EM1/76's?

Hi

Not heard that one before as far as I am aware they were always called Tommies.

Cheers

Paul


  Likewise  although i think it was Dutch railwaymen who gave it the the nickname when it was sent to Holland for proving runs & to help out a motive power shortage in about 1947/48.


              Ray.

Offline PaulCheffus

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2015, 05:29:17 PM »

Minor point 76022 was dual braked not vacuum only.


Hi Paul,

When I said 022 was my favourite 'Vo' I didn't mean vacuum only - although the letters could be mistaken that way - I was referring to the nickname 'Vo's' which I always thought was for all EM1/76's?

Hi

Not heard that one before as far as I am aware they were always called Tommies.

Cheers

Paul


  Likewise  although i think it was Dutch railwaymen who gave it the the nickname when it was sent to Holland for proving runs & to help out a motive power shortage in about 1947/48.


              Ray.

Hi Ray

That's how I understand it too. The whole class took the nickname from the prototype which got its name as you describe. That's not to say they didn't have other nicknames.

Cheers

Paul
Procrastination - The Thief of Time.

Offline Chris Higgs

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2015, 05:30:02 PM »
As the man behind the Masterclass models Class 76, just thought I would say how that came about, just for the
record. (it doesn't really affect the discussion here, but some may want to know).

My version was based on the Cenpro CAD, which had the following issues

1. It was 5% too big for 1:148. (or 8% too big for 2mm scale) - I think this was so it could be used on a Farish Class 31 chassis
2. The cab windows were not quite right - I think they had been based on those of the original Tommy rather than the production Class 76.
3. One of the side vents was too long.

The Cenpro CAD we were lent was re-scaleable but not editable - it was probably STL format but I don't recall. So we rescaled it down by 8% to be correct size for 1:152. At this scale the Brawa East German E142 model was a near-perfect chassis fit, and even had spoked wheels. Etches were provided for cab side and front to use as overlays to solve the window issue. Item 3 could not be corrected and we lived with it.

I had fifty made, ten for myself and forty to sell. These took an age to shift, but all went eventually. A large proportion of them to Paul Cheffings and Alan Whitehouse.

FYI, the Heljan 4mm EM1 has severe issues with the window proportions and spacing.

It would be great to see this project succeed, and I shall watch with interest. Probably won't model the MSW myself though if it comes about, as one of my motivations was to model something no-one else was!

Chris Higgs

Offline 7P5F

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #68 on: November 22, 2015, 05:44:01 PM »
Thanks for that insight Chris.There aren`t any kits available & the chassis/motor bogies would be difficult to source,I reckon a lot of folk would like a ready to run loco.

  The EM2 used bogies based on the LMS 10000/10001 design but again were were too fast for the line speed which i think was limited to 60mph.

              Ray.

Offline Chris Higgs

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #69 on: November 22, 2015, 07:27:49 PM »
I'll be interested to see just how many 'a lot' is. EM1 maybe, but I'll be very surprised if we see an EM2.

They didn't last long on the route and I have always wondered if the builders had half an eye on selling them on for elsewhere when they designed in that maximum speed. Or perhaps they believed that one day they might have been found plying their trade up and down the WCML - which might have been a possibility if 1500V DC had been chosen to go forward.

Chris

Offline 7P5F

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #70 on: November 22, 2015, 07:37:55 PM »
I'll be interested to see just how many 'a lot' is. EM1 maybe, but I'll be very surprised if we see an EM2.

They didn't last long on the route and I have always wondered if the builders had half an eye on selling them on for elsewhere when they designed in that maximum speed. Or perhaps they believed that one day they might have been found plying their trade up and down the WCML - which might have been a possibility if 1500V DC had been chosen to go forward.

Chris


Eventually,they were sold to Netherland State Railways & ran for many years,i believe there is,or was,a preserved loco in Utrecht transport museum.
They may have been designed to run to London if the OHLE had been installed but it was a non standard voltage & technology but this is just conjecture.

           Ray
                 

Offline 7P5F

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #71 on: November 22, 2015, 07:44:27 PM »
I have seen that on pics but I could never understand why??

There were a lot of level crossings on the line & the contact wire height had to be high to clear traffic.I think the standard height of the contact wire was around 16 ft.

                     Ray.

Offline gc4946

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #72 on: November 22, 2015, 09:12:17 PM »
I'd go for the EM1s to be produced rather than the EM2s.

If the EM2s were made there would have to be a 1:148 version for British modellers and a 1:160 version for those modelling the Dutch scene, which would push production costs up and fragment the market.

"I believe in positive, timely solutions, not vague, future promises"

Online Roy L S

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #73 on: November 22, 2015, 09:32:07 PM »
Definitely has to be EM1s for my money.

There were more of them and they lasted considerably longer. If we are saying that the EM1 should be considered marginal as a RTR project I'd say the EM2 is a complete non starter personally.

Roy


Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Suggestion for MSW/LNER EM1
« Reply #74 on: November 22, 2015, 09:46:58 PM »
Seeing as how they were frequently 'mixed and matched' I'd be down for a green twin pack (motorised/dummy) and a blue twin pack at the very least :drool:

 

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