dapol or farish/bachman

[Alancoulson1]

What are considered to be the better quality models, farish/Bachmann or dapol ??

[Sprintex]

Very much depends on which model.

They've both produced some excellent models and some complete dogs in equal measure, so impossible to answer really. You'd be better reading the individual review threads for the models you're interested in


Paul

[alibuchan]

Or read back through the hundreds of Dapol v Farish threads that have been started over the years.

Basically Farish makes the best models in their catalogue and Dapol make the best in theirs. Any duplicates are all 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other. Each have their positive and negative points.

Alistair

[Karhedron]

You will sometimes find threads where a modeler complains that all their locos from one manufacturer have been lemons to one degree or another. But these threads are roughly split between Dapol and Farish. Even my Peco 2251 went up in smoke (although it was repaired under warranty).

Returns figures from Hattons suggest that overall, both manufacturers are roughly equal on reliability.

[Les1952]

Like almost every modeller I have locos that I swear by and others swear at.

An example- I can't get a reliable Farish A1 and have a significant number of Dapol A3s that are the reliable backbone of my exhibition fleet.  BUT I am well aware that others have no problems with ANY Farish tender drive and can't get an A3 to run at all, let alone reliably.

Our own fleets of any type are statistically insignificant, which means that the experience of ANY one of us can be the opposite of the overall reality.  If 1% are duds then there will be two dozen dud A3s out there or forty dud Farish A1s (bigger production).  Easy to see how I can get two duds from that 40- luck of the draw.

I don't know whether it will happen again this year, but at last year's Dapol open day there were significant numbers of the recent locos for sale to club members that had failed Quality Control, decorative errors, lumpy runners, and one or two that were obviously shop returns. two of the 9Fs I picked up had no mechanical problems at all, one having a slight paint run on the tender top and the other a tiny yellow mark on the boiler that rubbed off with the end of a cocktail stick. (The third had mangled motion but I wanted one to break up).  It felt as if they had been testing the new stuff at Chirk before sending it out, but I never thought to ask.  This year I shall remember to.

Les

[Roy L S]

Hi Les

I completely agree with what you say (please - don't fall off your chair!). Personal experience is very likely to skews perception of the true overall picture.

My two Farish A1s run like proverbial sewing machines and have done many hours. Indeed I am one of those who has had very few problems with Farish Tender Driven locos (and I would be ashamed to admit how many I have!). Others have had it appears more than their fair share.

One of my pair of Dapol A3s failed (drive gear problem) and was repaired and had pickups upgraded by Dr Al of this Parish it now runs beautifully. As it was a renamed one (60041 "Salmon Trout") side lining it was not an option. I personally feel that to date Dapol's A3 is their best model it just captures the look and when running gait of the real loco perfectly.

Conversely I have had no success with the Dapol B1 - one an overheated motor (it actually got so hot it distorted the tender body!) the second had defective loco pickup and would only pick up off of the tender (loco-tender wires were not the problem).

Of recent releases the coreless motor loco drive Farish introduced has been a step change. I have had but one problematic loco (An Ivatt which suffered a broken crosshead) but I know others like Elvinley seem to have been plagued with mechanical problems with some models like the Longmoor Railway variant of the WD. That said I personally have not yet heard of a single actual motor failure which is encouraging. I note that the Dapol WC/BOB will be designed to be pure loco drive with a similar motor so clearly it is seen as the way forward.

There will always be "duds". These locos are (doubtless with the help of a plethora of assembly jigs) hand assembled so human error creeps in. I doubt 100% quality control is a cost effective prospect be it in China, Barwell or Chirk so inevitably a small percentage of "duffers" (whatever it feels like that's all it is) will reach certain people.

Roy

[macwales]

Hi

In my experience its all a bit pot luck. I have had duffers from both manufacturers, some that defy all fiddling with and others that I could easily fix. A B1 from Dapol that required major surgery and another that runs like a dream. As for some requiring return for a repair -  a Dapol A4 (now runs great) and a Farish Black 5 (that is still a poor runner).

A few (e.g. Dapol Q1 and that Black 5) have been disappointing poor pullers, especially  when compared to the real thing

Having said all this most have been good even out of the box. Dapol motors tend to be noisier and the new Farish direct drive almost silent. Colours seem to be in the eye of the beholder but the detail on modern N Gauge is exquisite from both camps.

I love both makes, but agree quality control needs to improve if prices are to continue to rise above inflation.

Cheers

Mac 

[Portpatrick]

Yes,I suspect we all have stories of success and failure.  And I deal with minor adjustments myself - though like cars they are getting rather difficult for DiYers.  I certainly feel that Dapol is much better with its diesels than steam.  I only have a Brit, Ivatt  and M7 (converted to a Caley)  in steam.  They all run OK, though the Brit does have a bit of a wobble.  But I have known friends with more problems - such as lack of controllability with early releases and the leading bogie of early 9Fs, only 1 burn out I can recall.  I am avoiding their tender engines because of the propeller shaft.  Even with careful handling my Brit comes apart  sometimes and they can be a pain to relocate.  I am retaining my older Farish versions of the A3 and A4, and minitrix 9F.  The Ivatt (1st push pull release) is fine.  By contrast my 26,27,66s and 67s are all great.

For me Farish locos of the Chinese era have mostly been OK.  The Peaks have had droopy couplings - solved by gluing a slither of plasticard underneath the coupling's shaft.  The V2, B1s Jubes, Scot 5MT, Ivatt, etc etc are all fine with their varied drive approaches.  Though see another thread re the A1 valve gear failure (c 18 months in).  My 66 motor burned out.  Russ repaired it for me and I keep it as a reserve to the Dapols.  The diesel shunters, 24 and new 25/1 are superb.

[Portpatrick]

Hi


I love both makes, but agree quality control needs to improve if prices are to continue to rise above inflation.

Cheers

Mac 

You sum it up well Mac

[Roy L S]

The trouble is that if time (and therefore money) spent by manufacturers on QC increases prices will be forced up even more than already. Current price increases simply maintain the status quo - there is no extra margin to invest in such things.

Roy

[Portpatrick]

Clearly I (most of us?) have little knowledge of the business model and cost structure of the market for British outline N gauge.  My standard question professionally to a supplier who is demanding higher prices is what are they offering in return in terms of greater efficiency and better quality.  I would sincerely hope Dapol and Bachman take that sort of approach.  We modellers the end customer reasonably expect, and these days are more vocal about, something in return for our hard earned money and quality does seem to be a significant problem.  Of course if quality is higher, then batches could be smaller or better still the same batch size generates more sales and with a given cost more profit.

I fear though that the reality may be closer to what Roy is intimating.  The sad result of that is a hopefully slow but probably steady spiral of decline in the British outline N gauge market.  As the products become dearer, more will become fed up with doubtful quality.  And walk, whether to another scale or out of model railways totally.  I have overheard comments suggesting a few are close to that.  The effect on those of us left is fewer new models, smaller batches meaning higher unit prices and in extremis could spell fewer suppliers.  It is not an easy situation and it is in both modellers and manufacturers interests to break/prevent that cycle.