Nelevation - an automatic smart fiddle yard

[georgehgv]

Given the right length for our own fiddle yards, I wonder how many would seriously commit to £600 (price being bandied about) for a Nelevator
If, for example, Allen was to ask for 50% deposit (like the Pendolino), would there be enough players prepared to do this?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea with huge potential, but I reckon Allen needs some solid evidence of commitment before proceeding too far.

Mick there is tremendous support for this and also enquiries about a OO version elsewhere. Remember one of the reasons for modelling N Gauge is space saving, this addresses that issue in freeing up Fiddle Yards, also I like to see my models and they would be visible in the Perspex case. Double whammy and then I could sell all those boxes back to JB :-)

[Michael Shillabeer]

£600 sounds reasonable, even better if £300 deposit then £300 balance later.

Have I read correctly that the £600 doesn't include track?

Is this going to be a crowd funded project?

I'd be interested in a DCC version, if not produced could we design/build our own DCC to Nelevator interface to replace the handset? Is the handset a 'dumb terminal'?

With one of these I'll be able to fit even more of Royal Wootton Bassett's town buildings into the model!

Rather glad that my layout building has slowed to a stop - let's me build one of these in from the "beginning"

Best regards
Michael

[Newportnobby]

Given the right length for our own fiddle yards, I wonder how many would seriously commit to £600 (price being bandied about) for a Nelevator
If, for example, Allen was to ask for 50% deposit (like the Pendolino), would there be enough players prepared to do this?
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea with huge potential, but I reckon Allen needs some solid evidence of commitment before proceeding too far.

Mick there is tremendous support for this and also enquiries about a OO version elsewhere. Remember one of the reasons for modelling N Gauge is space saving, this addresses that issue in freeing up Fiddle Yards, also I like to see my models and they would be visible in the Perspex case. Double whammy and then I could sell all those boxes back to JB :-)

I'm not querying its reason for existence, George
Merely wondering just how many are carried away by the euphoria of its potential but when it comes to parting with the dosh would find a reason not to buy.
Taking things to an extreme, it would be pointless 1000 people expressing an interest but only 20 willing to cough up when it comes to crunch time.
Please don't think I have a downer on this at all.

[georgehgv]

I understand exactly what you mean Mick, it may well take a little while for the full potential to be realised by potential purchasers, however there appears to be good support at this stage, how else can the project progress? Everything in life is a risk. I don't expect everyone to get excited about it and there will of course be critics. Possibly one of the holdbacks of this is the disruption to existing layouts.

[georgehgv]

In case you guys still want to know the full dimensions, here they are :-


[smg id=29366 type=full size=800 align=center caption="N'ELEVATOR DIMENSIONS"]

Baseboard Cut-out: 1,500 mm x 120 mm

It should be noted these are only the dimensions of the existing prototype not a production model.

[Vonzack]

I think it would be better if the elevator beds didn't need to have track installed, it should either come pre-installed or the aluminium extrusion should be split in half and profiled so that it provides a rail head, then each half could be powered appropriately by the pickups. If the owner is expected to install track then there could be running or operational problems that might not be down to the Nelevator hardware itself.

I'm also worried that the Nelevator is being pitched at two roles, being a space saving device or a glorified display cabinet. I think it should be pitched clearly as a space saver and the design should be tweaked so that the stock is protected from damage while inside. The elevator beds need to have sides, imagine knocking one of these things that's fully loaded, where is the stock going to end up?

[georgehgv]

I think it would be better if the elevator beds didn't need to have track installed, it should either come pre-installed or the aluminium extrusion should be split in half and profiled so that it provides a rail head, then each half could be powered appropriately by the pickups. If the owner is expected to install track then there could be running or operational problems that might not be down to the Nelevator hardware itself.

I'm also worried that the Nelevator is being pitched at two roles, being a space saving device or a glorified display cabinet. I think it should be pitched clearly as a space saver and the design should be tweaked so that the stock is protected from damage while inside. The elevator beds need to have sides, imagine knocking one of these things that's fully loaded, where is the stock going to end up?

Off the rails but still inside the display unit. How clumsy are you? If you knock your layout what happens?

[MikeDunn]

I think it would be better if the elevator beds didn't need to have track installed, it should either come pre-installed or the aluminium extrusion should be split in half and profiled so that it provides a rail head

Queue all the "I want Code xxx", "no, I want Code yyy" issues    How many variants would he need to make, hmmm ?  Remember - this is a kit, not a 'take it out of the box & use' product ...

Off the rails but still inside the display unit. How clumsy are you? If you knock your layout what happens?

Non-secured things can fall over.  Vonzack, like others earlier in the thread, is making a perfectly valid design point.    happens, no-one can guarantee they (or others) will never knock against the layout with enough force to make things rock and potentially fall over, and are within their rights to ask that this is considered and mitigated.

[Vonzack]

I think it would be better if the elevator beds didn't need to have track installed, it should either come pre-installed or the aluminium extrusion should be split in half and profiled so that it provides a rail head, then each half could be powered appropriately by the pickups. If the owner is expected to install track then there could be running or operational problems that might not be down to the Nelevator hardware itself.

I'm also worried that the Nelevator is being pitched at two roles, being a space saving device or a glorified display cabinet. I think it should be pitched clearly as a space saver and the design should be tweaked so that the stock is protected from damage while inside. The elevator beds need to have sides, imagine knocking one of these things that's fully loaded, where is the stock going to end up?

Off the rails but still inside the display unit. How clumsy are you? If you knock your layout what happens?

Accidents happen GeorgeHGV, worst case you're talking about a loco dropping 1m through the cabinet hitting whatever on the way down possibly knocking that off as well, expensive dominos. If I remember correctly from TINGS, the prototype didn't have a closed bottom, maybe you could put some cushions down underneath it ;-)

If I knock my layout, the stock falls on it's side on the baseboard, not on the floor.

[georgehgv]

I think it would be better if the elevator beds didn't need to have track installed, it should either come pre-installed or the aluminium extrusion should be split in half and profiled so that it provides a rail head

Queue all the "I want Code xxx", "no, I want Code yyy" issues    How many variants would he need to make, hmmm ?  Remember - this is a kit, not a 'take it out of the box & use' product ...

Off the rails but still inside the display unit. How clumsy are you? If you knock your layout what happens?

Non-secured things can fall over.  Vonzack, like others earlier in the thread, is making a perfectly valid design point.    happens, no-one can guarantee they (or others) will never knock against the layout with enough force to make things rock and potentially fall over, and are within their rights to ask that this is considered and mitigated.

This thread is developing into an argument so for that reason "I'm out".

I like it, it suits me so I will buy one. The rest can decide what they want or don't want without me.

[Nelevation]

Mmmm. I ponder sometimes. Should Ferrari concentrate on performance or beauty? Should Apple  have a dedicated telephone and a separate camera? Should beer only taste good and it doesn't matter what it smells like or looks like. Good design can accomplish more than one goal. Ferrari, Apple and Adnams seem to do a fine job of it! Rant over!

[Vonzack]

I think it would be better if the elevator beds didn't need to have track installed, it should either come pre-installed or the aluminium extrusion should be split in half and profiled so that it provides a rail head

Queue all the "I want Code xxx", "no, I want Code yyy" issues    How many variants would he need to make, hmmm ?  Remember - this is a kit, not a 'take it out of the box & use' product ...

Agreed Mike, I think asking for which rail to install would leave too many options. When I was talking about making a rail head from the aluminium, I had in mind something like a loco lift you see at shows, made out of two sections of Aluminium angle and an insulator holding the two together. For me it wouldn't matter about the profile of the angle, it just needs to be 9mm apart and high enough to cope with 'pizza cutter' wheels. If stock Aluminium angle was used, it would probably provide the 'knock' protection and might be allot cheaper than the extrusion that was on display in the prototype.

[Ditape]

I don't mind fitting my own track all  I know is I have an idea for a new layout in my head  and I want one of these for it I just want know the dimensions of the production model and when I can get one Oh! and how much the production model is going to cost me.

[Nelevation]

I think it would be better if the elevator beds didn't need to have track installed, it should either come pre-installed or the aluminium extrusion should be split in half and profiled so that it provides a rail head

Queue all the "I want Code xxx", "no, I want Code yyy" issues    How many variants would he need to make, hmmm ?  Remember - this is a kit, not a 'take it out of the box & use' product ...

Off the rails but still inside the display unit. How clumsy are you? If you knock your layout what happens?

Non-secured things can fall over.  Vonzack, like others earlier in the thread, is making a perfectly valid design point.    happens, no-one can guarantee they (or others) will never knock against the layout with enough force to make things rock and potentially fall over, and are within their rights to ask that this is considered and mitigated.

This thread is developing into an argument so for that reason "I'm out".

I like it, it suits me so I will buy one. The rest can decide what they want or don't want without me.

Thanks George. All these points are very good ones and ones that I've considered in depth. Yes, if you knock it hard, trains will tumble but it needs to be hard. It survived TINGS without an upset. One of my earlier designs had Perspex covers attached to the aluminium extrusions making it super safe but access becomes more difficult and of course more cost. The track question is equally valid. I can supply the track no problem but it means I have to get it delivered, pay for postage , stock it and post it on. I'm working really hard to keep costs down and meet our price target . It would be cheaper for the customer to buy there own track. It would be easy to design and build the ultimate elevator with every perceivable feature incorporated. Fantastic ! It would cost £2000 and nobody would buy it, sorry 2nd rant over. I'm off to the bar for a bottle of wine. Can't afford Chatteau so may have to compromise with a wee Rioja. Sorry sorry sorry.

[Ben A]

I'm also worried that the Nelevator is being pitched at two roles, being a space saving device or a glorified display cabinet. I think it should be pitched clearly as a space saver and the design should be tweaked so that the stock is protected from damage while inside. The elevator beds need to have sides, imagine knocking one of these things that's fully loaded, where is the stock going to end up?

Hi there,

I think its potential lies precisely in the fact that it does fulfil two roles - saving space and protecting/displaying stock when the layout is not in use.  I can actually see this not being unacceptable to non-enthusiast family members as an item of "furniture" in a spare room etc.

Also, remember that due to the design up to half of the weight is below the baseboard.  If knocked in any kind of normal operating conditions, I suspect you're talking about a deflection of only a few degrees.  Some stock might be displaced, but I doubt it would be damaged.  And, using the same principle as motorway Armco, the fact that all trains are usually coupled together on the unit would tend to mean they keep each other on the track.  And the side and centre perspex spacers would prevent stock falling between the shelves.  I actually think it would take considerable force to make a complete train - or even part of one - be dislodged enough to actually separate so vehicles can fall.

I think it's good to have these discussions, because these concerns are raised, the more people can consider the options and make an informed decision.

In terms of numbers, I think Allen is looking for an initial production of 50 units.   That really isn't that many, and is eminently achievable given the amount of interest I saw displayed at TINGS.

I certainly want one!

cheers

Ben A.