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Poll

Would You Buy a Crowd Funded Electrostar 377/2 in N Gauge?

No
Yes, at least 1
Yes at least 2
Yes, more than 2
Yes Depending on Liveries proposed

Author Topic: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Electrostar 377/2  (Read 25233 times)

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Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2015, 11:29:36 PM »
One more picture to show the cab end differences within the class 377/1.


Offline acko22

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2015, 01:29:41 AM »
Well there is lots of different design variants to the fleet.

Would it not be worth looking into how many people would be interested in the model?
While a kick start may not be sought after as a method of getting the model going but with the current publicity and the fact that no matter the want for modern N gauge passenger fleet EMUs is really there.
Like previously said its a case finding a a variant that could be most sought after and proving a sound financial case for it either by declarations of interest or maybe pledging

Offline gc4946

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2015, 09:31:29 AM »
I'd go for one of the dual-voltage variants as they will have more appeal and a wider geographical spread - a Southern 377/2 would look great alongside a LM Desiro or Pendolino as well!
"I believe in positive, timely solutions, not vague, future promises"

Offline captainelectra

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2015, 11:58:36 AM »
I would recommend the 377/2 in Southern Livery as a good first choice - they worked on the WCML until very recently and could also double up as Thameslink 377/5s.

SouthEastern operate the 375/8 which also has the later light clusters but is single voltage.
Best Regards,
Adam Warr
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Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2015, 03:38:35 PM »
Well there is lots of different design variants to the fleet.

Would it not be worth looking into how many people would be interested in the model?
While a kick start may not be sought after as a method of getting the model going but with the current publicity and the fact that no matter the want for modern N gauge passenger fleet EMUs is really there.
Like previously said its a case finding a a variant that could be most sought after and proving a sound financial case for it either by declarations of interest or maybe pledging


There was some discussion around this a while ago on this thread...

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=24586.0

I would recommend the 377/2 in Southern Livery as a good first choice - they worked on the WCML until very recently and could also double up as Thameslink 377/5s.



I'd go for one of the dual-voltage variants as they will have more appeal and a wider geographical spread - a Southern 377/2 would look great alongside a LM Desiro or Pendolino as well!


Indeed, the 377/2 would have a wider appeal (and I believe they are identical to the 377/5; they are also compatible together, I travelled on a service formed of 377207 and 377514 the other day), but it is a small sub-class (15 members). That said, you will see them anywhere between Southampton and Hastings; Brighton and Bedford...along with Milton Keynes and (I believe) Sevenoaks.

Oh yes, and they used to operate as far as Rugby.

Offline acko22

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2015, 04:13:41 PM »
Claude has great points about how the set runs and what is a massive geographical area the 377/2 run which would make it a good candidate for production as it has a wide appeal and multiple sale possibilities.
Then it has the plus point that the variations in design and liveries could again increase follow on sales in the future

Its a case of would there be anyone willing to push it forward? I know Mike and Ben who have pushed the Pendolino have positions of status if you like within the N gauge world and the contacts that go with that.
Also how would the funding be sourced Kick start is one idea but it would be a case of finding a manufacturer who is willing to come in with what ever funding / idea that comes forward.

Offline red_death

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2015, 04:23:49 PM »
Chaps and chapesses

Without letting the cat too much out of the bag if you can wait until after 10pm tonight then I am sure a mechanism can be found  :D

The only difference between DC and dual voltage variants seems to be the fitting of a pantograph - is that right (assuming window/light variations etc are covered).

From a manufacturing point of view, I'm looking at what you could do with 2 bodyshells (driving car and trailers). In this case a wide variety of liveries is good (provided you can et them all from the same tooling). So things like pantographs can be added, but it probably means settling on one type of light cluster and window frame type (though that might be more flexible if we could use inlay type arrangements).

Cheers, Mike



Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2015, 05:35:03 PM »

Without letting the cat too much out of the bag if you can wait until after 10pm tonight then I am sure a mechanism can be found  :D

The only difference between DC and dual voltage variants seems to be the fitting of a pantograph - is that right (assuming window/light variations etc are covered).


If we are talking the about the difference between the class 377/1 (377140 - 164) and 377/4, and the dual-voltage 377/2 and 377/5 is, I believe, just the addition of the pantograph (as well as the liveries).


377204 at Haywards Heath with a Littlehampton train

I understand the pantograph used is the Brecknell Willis high-speed type...the same as this offering from Dapol?

http://dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=910


From a manufacturing point of view, I'm looking at what you could do with 2 bodyshells (driving car and trailers). In this case a wide variety of liveries is good (provided you can et them all from the same tooling). So things like pantographs can be added, but it probably means settling on one type of light cluster and window frame type (though that might be more flexible if we could use inlay type arrangements).



The two intermediate trailers have a difference in their roof details; one has a pantograph well (all the units have these). I also suspect there may be a minor difference in window configuration, as one of the trailers has a disabled toilet...which is considerably larger than the standard toilet unit (although inlays would easily counter this difference).
« Last Edit: January 18, 2015, 05:45:52 PM by Claude Dreyfus »

Offline captainelectra

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2015, 09:15:13 PM »
By introducing slides into the tooling, it should be possible to cover both end light-cluster types, though probably a taller order to replicate the newer body types with "normal" glazing.

If lighting was introduced, then you would also need to consider different circuitry for both headlight types as well.

For those who say it is just a box on wheels, take a look at the picture below, particularly the elaborate bogie-mount casting at frame level...

Best Regards,
Adam Warr
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Offline red_death

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2015, 10:08:18 PM »
Depends entirely if slides would work for that shape and position.

If you have to do the windows as inlays anyway (to avoid lots of tooling) then I don't see the difference between ribbon and new windows as being difficult. The ones you can't do are the ones with recessed doors (378 and one other IIRC).

Cheers, M



Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2015, 10:13:35 PM »
Depends entirely if slides would work for that shape and position.

If you have to do the windows as inlays anyway (to avoid lots of tooling) then I don't see the difference between ribbon and new windows as being difficult. The ones you can't do are the ones with recessed doors (378 and one other IIRC).

Cheers, M

The 5-car South Eastern class 376 is the other type with recessed doors. Like the 378 they do not have the corridor cab connections.

Offline edwin_m

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2015, 08:22:18 AM »
The 5-car South Eastern class 376 is the other type with recessed doors. Like the 378 they do not have the corridor cab connections.

There are also significant differences between the 376 and 378.  The 376 has a window but no door in the middle of the front end, the 378 has a door but no window.  I believe the 376 is also not air conditioned so it may not have the aircon vents on the roof, but I can't find a photo to confirm this.  So it sounds like doing either class would be tricky.

Online NeMo

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2015, 08:37:31 AM »
I would recommend the 377/2 in Southern Livery as a good first choice - they worked on the WCML until very recently and could also double up as Thameslink 377/5s.
Sounds good to me. Certainly, price depending, a Southern, pantograph-fitted one would be the one I'd buy.

But what are the Southern EMUs currently working on the WCML? A different subclass of 377? Or something else entirely?

Cheers, NeMo
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Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2015, 08:54:34 AM »
Sounds good to me. Certainly, price depending, a Southern, pantograph-fitted one would be the one I'd buy.

But what are the Southern EMUs currently working on the WCML? A different subclass of 377? Or something else entirely?


Both the 377/2 and the new 377/7 crop up on the southern WCML.

Offline Ben A

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2015, 10:43:08 AM »

Hi all,

So if we ignore liveries and limit ourselves to 4-car gangwayed versions, the main body tooling issues are light clusters and ribbon/standard glazing? Is this correct?

Which gives us:

377/1 - small clusters, ribbon glazing, Southern, 3rd rail only, 64 built
377/2 - large clusters, ribbon glazing, Southern, Thameslink, dual voltage, 15 built
377/4 - large clusters, ribbon glazing, Southern, 3rd rail only, 75 built
377/5 - large clusters, ribbon glazing, Thameslink, dual voltage, 23 built

Seems 377/2/4/5 best option.  And according to Wikipedia the formation of all these units is:

DMOC-MOSL-PTSOL-DMOS

The next question, and speaking purely in terms of mouldings, not liveries, are there any differences between the two driving cars and the two centre cars other than panto well?

Cheers

Ben A.



 

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