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Poll

Would You Buy a Crowd Funded Electrostar 377/2 in N Gauge?

No
Yes, at least 1
Yes at least 2
Yes, more than 2
Yes Depending on Liveries proposed

Author Topic: Suggestion for RevolutioN - Electrostar 377/2  (Read 24722 times)

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Offline Brooksy

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2015, 07:30:48 AM »
Hi

I think you need to be realistic. I would agree with the comment above that £160 would be about right the same as the Desiro.

Cheers

Paul

It depends on whether you are talking RRP or actual price paid. For instance the Dapol Arriva 66 + 2 coaches + DVT has just gone on sale on Hattons for £131. If the price was a lot more than this than I'm sure I'd get one but multiples will be out of the question.

Offline NeMo

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #76 on: January 24, 2015, 09:04:23 AM »
Personally speaking, depending on the spec, I would consider £100 - £150 for a 4-car unit.
Sounds right to me, but honestly, towards the lower end of that range.

It's your classic conundrum: lower the spec to keep the price accessible to the biggest number of purchasers, or raise the spec, but with the understanding the high price will turn away a proportion of possible purchasers.

The Farish Desiro was out there around the £150 mark initially, but probably like a lot of people who own this set, I waited until the price came down a bit, and got mine for under £100.

In fact I can't remember the last time I actually bought any model train at RRP.

Rather than coming up with ideas for liveries and running numbers, perhaps some thought could be given to ways to reduce the cost of the project? I'm not suggesting cutting corners unnecessarily, but are there compromises that could be made without losing the essence of the project? For example: leaving "the bag of bits" to a third party to produce? Or leaving off the pantograph so that the Dapol one could be installed if WCML running is required? Just throwing ideas out there...

Cheers, NeMo
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Offline StufromEGDL

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #77 on: January 24, 2015, 10:34:18 AM »
 Bob,

I hope you continue to concentrate on the pep family of EMUs for now...I'm patiently waiting for the 314...

Later,
Stu in LCRA.
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Offline PaulCheffus

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #78 on: January 24, 2015, 10:40:43 AM »
Hi

I think you need to be realistic. I would agree with the comment above that £160 would be about right the same as the Desiro.

Cheers

Paul

It depends on whether you are talking RRP or actual price paid. For instance the Dapol Arriva 66 + 2 coaches + DVT has just gone on sale on Hattons for £131. If the price was a lot more than this than I'm sure I'd get one but multiples will be out of the question.

Hi

RRP.

Cheers

Paul
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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #79 on: January 24, 2015, 10:41:24 AM »
If you are talking about a project akin to the Pendolino ie backers put the money up to prove a market exists then you are probably looking at a relatively small run and therefore a higher price.  I understand the temptation to compare to the Desiro, but I don't think that is in anyway realistic - a more realistic comparison is the Brighton Belle £200 for 5 coaches.

Detail parts and pantographs are not the main driver of price - that is tooling costs and numbers produced.

RRP or not is a non-discussion for a project where sales are direct (and not via retail channels) like the Pendolino.

Cheers, Mike



Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2015, 10:48:53 AM »
Crudely speaking* that means the Belle is about £40.00 a carriage. That's £160.00 in Electrostar terms...

* I know it doesn't quite breakdown that way as the carriages won't be evenly priced (motor, cab ends etc) and the 'extra' carriage in the Belle would be an unpowered trailer.

If we landed at around the £175-180 mark that would probably be realistic.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 10:50:50 AM by Claude Dreyfus »

Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2015, 10:52:44 AM »
And how late was it tonight Claude?!


Better than before, but still ten minutes down into Pulborough...

Offline Ben A

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2015, 12:04:57 PM »
Hello all,

Thanks for all the input around price - some interesting contrasts in what people are prepared to pay or feel is reasonable.

A couple of observations going forward:

Firstly, as Mike said idea of variable pricing is irrelevant.  For a subscription model the price would be set by the tooling cost combined with the production of a limited number - probably 1000 models.  The manufacturer gets to keep the tooling afterward and can rerun the model, and make a profit, and a specidied time in the future - probably not sooner than 2 years.  Even then, manufacturer RRP is likely to be significantly higher when the model does arrive.

Secondly, only the pre-subscribed number of models would be produced.  This is helpful because it focuses minds and encourages quick pledging (no waiting for the price to "come down later") but also it supports speculative investors who can see that once the models are available they are likely to sell for a premium to those who missed out.

In this instance, speculative investors are beneficial to the hobby as their cash is as good as anyone else's at helping a model get over the threshold to being funded.

I am sure there is a way to manufacture some of these more "niche" products that don't make sense for the big boys, but realistically they are going to cost more.

So the question is:  Do you want another two £90 Class 66 locomotives, or do you want to put that money toward a £180 Electrostar?

cheers

Ben A.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 06:21:02 PM by Ben A »



Offline Claude Dreyfus

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2015, 12:17:44 PM »
Ben,

From my point of view, £180.00 for an Electrostar beats 2x 66s every time. Given the nature of how these units operate, I suspect pitched at around this price many people may go for at least a couple.

On a more general point, if (emphasise IF again) this goes ahead this would be one of the most requested units going into production, and one that will have a very strong barometre on the popularity of EMUs... I don't recall the class 350 topping the polls on any wishlist in the same way the Electrostar has. We have an opportunity to follow-up the Pendolino project with another demonstration that we do put our money where our mouth is when it comes to something we really want.

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2015, 12:55:37 PM »
Like Claude says if it went ahead, I know I would be willing to pay 180 pound for it happily, at the end of the day like any kickstart you have to speculate to accumulate (this time put a little extra cash in to get more models you REALLY want.

From earlier in the thread a mention was made to liveries, I think that all 3 liveries been used would be the best option as it totally opens up the geographical coverage of the Electrostar, plus it allows other to maybe use rule 1.
Personally I am modeling the NW on a Fictional electrified Transpennie route and while there are no 377 classes up this way if there was a model in the Thameslink First colours then it would fit in as First run the Transpennine routes.

If things were to go forward personally with all that to have the models in all 3 colour with a bag of interchangeable bits and Pantograph if you wanted to fit it would be an excellent offering, as it allows everyone who is modeling the era and area to get exactly the right model and rule 1 buyers to adapt it to better suit what they may be looking for.

Offline IST

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2015, 01:34:49 PM »
So the question is:  Do you want another two £90 Class 66 locomotives, or do you want to put that money toward a £180 Electrostar?

Simply question, simply answer:
Electrostar.

Offline UPINSMOKE

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2015, 02:19:52 PM »
I would go for the Electrostar every time but then again I am a big fan, as they run in the region I live in, and am modeling :D :D
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 04:30:54 PM by UPINSMOKE »
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Offline BudgieJane

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2015, 05:13:17 PM »
So the question is:  Do you want another two £90 Class 66 locomotives, or do you want to put that money toward a £180 Electrostar?

cheers

Ben A.

Definitely Electrostar. And as I have said before, I would like a dozen of them, so that would be over £2000 of Electrostars.
Best wishes

Jane

Offline PostModN66

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2015, 05:38:01 PM »
I'll take a couple of Electrostars.

But I've never paid anything like £90 for a 66 - and I have about 10 of them!!

Cheers  Jon  :)
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Offline Ben A

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Re: Electrostars
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2015, 06:25:52 PM »
Hi Jon,

You're right - my mistake.

Hattons are currently listing 371-396 Class 66/9 diesel 66731 'InterhubGB' in GBRf livery at £89.21.

So let me rephrase that:  Would you rather have two of those or a high-spec, laser-scanned 4-car Electrostar for £178.42.    ;)

cheers

Ben A.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 06:26:55 PM by Ben A »



 

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