We forget how expensive N gauge used to be!

[Roy L S]

I really wonder what kind of profits GF are making per loco, surely it must be well over 50% so realistically if Kato can pass fare prices for there Locomotives why can not the likes of GF.

Unlikely to be 50% of trade prices never mind RRP I would think.

Factory gate prices may be pretty low per unit but still have to factor in amortisation of tooling costs over relatively short production runs. Added to that will be cost of shipping, duties, taxes etc. Then deduct UK overheads and shipping costs to retailers.

Dealer margin against full RRP ? I would think no more than 30-40% which may look a lot but against relatively low volumes they will sell really isn't if they want to cover overheads and eat!

Roy

[Agrippa]

This topic is beginning to sound like a cost accountants' convention,
someone will be applying  discounted cash flow techniques to their
old locos at this rate....

[Rabbitaway]

All

A few more prices on boxes

Green Class 25 - £51.95
Green Class 20 - £54.95
BR Midland Crab - £59.95

All bought in 1997 or 1998

These were discounted prices at shows so looking expensive considering I remember paying £34 from that Liverpool shop for new desiels when when I started back with the hobby in 2008

[Zunnan]

I remember back in the '90s when I still had a 00 gauge railway my dad built, looking at the N Gauge stuff in the cabinet at the Lichfield Train Shop and baulking at the £90+ price tag on the larger Farish stuff. Its taken 15 years to exceed the prices we used to pay, admittedly coaches and wagons blew through that point long ago, and the recent Polybulks and Covhops have set a pretty high new benchmark...comparable to Minitrix prices of the '90s 

[Skyline2uk]

I clearly remember the days when the original style 08's from Farish were £28.00.

I got (and still have) a triple grey one for my birthday in 1994. A few years back I got the new style outside-frame example (again triple grey) for £45.00 from one of the box-shifters at a show.

Side by side there is absolutely no comparison between the two. The modern version is a quantum leap in looks, detail and running qualities. I know they are now getting much more expensive, but I think the improvements are there to see.

I have also done side by side comparisons of the Farish (vintage 1993) Poole 56 vs Dapol 56 (pictures on my layout thread) and again the improvement is vast. I will shortly be putting comparison pictures up of the new 37 against a Poole Era brother.

The same can be said (though I can't do as easy comparisons) of rolling stock, but there perhaps the prices are more pronounced. Going back to the £28.00 Class 08, you can't get a Polybulk for that now. Personally speaking (without actually holding one, only seeing it through glass), I think the Polybulk quality is hugely impressive, but I would maybe think twice if the asking price got much closer to £50.00 each.

Just my views, a good discussion thread this one.

Skyline2uk

[railsquid]

The same can be said (though I can't do as easy comparisons) of rolling stock, but there perhaps the prices are more pronounced.

I'm fairly new to N-gauge after a 25-year hiatus from model railways (previously 'Orribly Oversized). I was kickstarting my British collection when I was there last year - not knowing much I picked up a couple of Farish Mk1 coaches for around a tenner each, thinking I'd got a bargain, but I later realized they were the old design and very primitive (flat sides, no interior, massive gap between vehicles). The newer versions I bought for twice the price are at least twice as good look very convincing as models.

[Rabbitaway]

All

We have had a period of about 10 years when we were getting great models at so affordable costs - coming to an end due to production costs in China

This has really spurred the hobby on in both 00 and N - high costs of models could cause a relapse to the days of decline, remember the 70s and 80s for the hobby! 

I paid £36 for my detailed outside frame Class 08 a few years back - now these are at least £50

We are still getting deals if you keep watching when stock needs to be disposed off!

MK3 coaches at £10, Class 86s at £45, GF A1 for £79 etc, etc

[railsquid]

We have had a period of about 10 years when we were getting great models at so affordable costs - coming to an end due to production costs in China

I wonder if anyone's ever considered outsourcing production to... Japan? The Japanese manufacturers seem to be able to produce a lot of stuff domestically at very reasonable prices and excellent quality; though there is a lot of stuff made in China, I don't think they're so dependent on China's uncertanties.

[Newportnobby]

The exact year I started in N gauge is lost in the mists of time but I've just checked some of my old stock:-

Ref 8133 2 car green 101 cost me £38.35
Ref 1905 8F 2-8-0 steamer cost me £39.95
Ref 1445 Castle class 4-6-0 cost me £33.20

so it was obviously post decimalisation and these were retail prices from a model shop in Northampton. The 8F is surely destined to be updated by someone (pretty please) but will now cost at least 3 times what I paid for the old one but no doubt someone can translate the old prices into what they would be now

[railsquid]

The exact year I started in N gauge is lost in the mists of time but I've just checked some of my old stock:-

Ref 8133 2 car green 101 cost me £38.35
Ref 1905 8F 2-8-0 steamer cost me £39.95
Ref 1445 Castle class 4-6-0 cost me £33.20

so it was obviously post decimalisation and these were retail prices from a model shop in Northampton. The 8F is surely destined to be updated by someone (pretty please) but will now cost at least 3 times what I paid for the old one but no doubt someone can translate the old prices into what they would be now

I can't help you with the prices, but this site indicates your 101 was first produced in 1982.

A couple of years after that I remember paying somewhere between 20 and 30 hard-earned quids for various 'Orribly Oversized locos (Hornby and Lima, still got them). I also recall thinking seriously about going to N at one point but being put off by the prices, lack of variety and relatively crude detailing.

(Fast forward 25 years, me wanders into random Japanese shop, picks up a single car from my local line from the junk box for very little money, is impressed by its quality and detail, and the rest, as they say, is history).

[railsquid]

Just for the hell of it, as I seem to have acquired a very short stretch of HO/OO track recently, I gave my Hornby 25 a brief back-and-forth spin. Now, it's been in storage for about 25 years so one has to make some allowances, but it did still run. well enough to remind me how mediocre it was. It gives off a distinct electrical/ozone smell and has a pronounced wobble, running qualities which brought back memories from a long time ago. My BachFar 25 is way better (apart from a slightly annoying gronk-gronk noise); it  costs GBP 84 in 2014 vs the Hornby 25's GBP 28 (IIRC) in 1986 (again, IIRC). An inflation calculator says that GBP 28 is the equivalent of GBP 74 today; the Bachman OO 25 seems to retail for GBP 71 or so.

So in real terms, it seems the BachFar 25 is not that much of a premium over the historical and current OO versions, in a market where N is still a bit of a minority. Compared to the historic OO version it's definitely a huge improvement from a mechanical point of view, and also has directional lighting and a DCC socket. Unfortunately I don't recall any N-gauge price details from back then apart from a vague memory of them being 50% ~ 100% more than the OO equivalent.

[Komata]

Raisquid

Re: '...A vague memory of them being 50% ~ 100% more than the OO equivalent'.

Summed up in the well-known phrase 'The smaller it is, the greater it costs', with 'Z' being a classic example of this dictum in application.

BTW: If  the statement is correct (and casual observation indicates that it is), then that would seem to explain why 'T'-scale is so horrifically expensive.  'Nice to look at, costly to own....'

[DesertHound]

The exact year I started in N gauge is lost in the mists of time but I've just checked some of my old stock:-

No it's not ... you just don't want to tell us how old you are Mick 

[Newportnobby]

The exact year I started in N gauge is lost in the mists of time but I've just checked some of my old stock:-

No it's not ... you just don't want to tell us how old you are Mick 

That's because I can't remember how old I am..............or even who I am

[DesertHound]

The exact year I started in N gauge is lost in the mists of time but I've just checked some of my old stock:-

No it's not ... you just don't want to tell us how old you are Mick 

That's because I can't remember how old I am..............or even who I am

Who? ... What? ... Where? ... When? ... Why? Oh yeah, I'm on the train forum ... Ok, here we go, 1978 vs 1999!

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