Sorry, another plea for info on prototypical working

[Caz]

I have just come across a an August 1963 copy of an article, in my guess would be Railway Modeller (see link below) and I have now realised where my son got his ideas for the layout of Claywell terminus.

My question is, how would the trains be worked in such a terminus when using the central release road?

1/   Would they arrive and proceed to the head of the platform and once passengers had alighted, shunt the coaches back past the release road points, uncouple, move forward again and then go down the central release road

2/  Arrive and stop short of the release road point and once passenger have alighted, uncouple and move forward to the headshunt and then back down the release road.

3/  Something else?

The article:

Link (in case the photobucket picture doesn't load: http://s285.photobucket.com/user/tony-daly/media/Layout%20Room/CJF-TERM.jpg.html?sort=2&o=20




My track plan (terminus is on the right hand side)

[Newportnobby]

I seem to recall solution 2 is the one commonly used at smaller termini although in most larger cases the original train engine ran right to the buffers, was decoupled and then the train taken out/to carriage sidings by another loco so release roads didn't come into the equation.

[port perran]

I think that the first two suggestions could both be right depending on the length of the train.
Both options would, I think, be commonly utilised.
Other options would be for a tank engine to release the carriages (which may be taken away for servicing/cleaning/storage) and thus releasing the train engine to move off to the shed.

[Chatty]

Caz

Sydney Central Station a lot of the platforms had a similar centre release road.  It seems the movement permutations were almost endless.

Generally speaking, the loco would stop short of the points, uncouple and then move forward and then out into the centre road.  All would be controlled by the signal box.

However, I have seen on occasions when there is a longer train the loco runs all the way to buffers and then after a suitable interval  is uncoupled and carriages moved back and then loco moved out into the centre road.  But occasionally, the coaches have been taken all the way out to the cleaning shed and the loco has moved up the platform road a little latter.

On other occasions, I have seen the locomotive crew leave the loco before the points or at the buffers and a while later another crew remove the train and its locomotive.

I note with interest that CJ Freezer is using the term OOO and not N Gauge.

Kind regards

Geoff

[Bealman]

I actually have that issue here on the shelf beside me, which I bought myself at the time - I'd just turned 11!

The term "N Gauge" had not been invented in August 1963. The only commercial stuff available was Lone Star "Treblo" developed from their push along models. There were only a couple of generic diesels available, with the motor driving the wheels by means of rubber bands!

[Chatty]

Gee George your old but I am a couple of years older.   

When I left the RAAF many years ago I had a conversation with a young WRAAF who, upon hearing of my pending discharge asked how long I had been in the service.  After I replied 12 years she thought for a moment and said "you must be old, you must be at least 29".  From that point I realised I was downward slope.

I would also point out that the time of the magazine's publication my attention was being diverted by other interests, including the young lady in the Newsagency stand on Central Railway.  Probably, I bought the same issue there.  All three long gone, sigh.

So Caz, you may have to factor that into my observations.   


Kind regards

Geoff

[Malc]

FWIW, I thought moving the stock around was the job of the station pilot loco, so I agree with Mick as I would put Claywell in the large terminus category.

[Caz]

Thanks guys for the info, it's times like these I regret not taking more notice of what my brothers were doing in observing locos but at the time I had no interest in trains other than they took us on holiday.   

I actually have that issue here on the shelf beside me, . . .

George, PM sent.

[NeMo]

FWIW, I thought moving the stock around was the job of the station pilot loco, so I agree with Mick as I would put Claywell in the large terminus category.

Absolutely. So the answer to the original question will depend a lot upon the era being modelled and also the type of train.

Will the locomotive be working back to where it came from? Quite possible for electrics and the larger diesels. In this case all the loco needs to do is run around the train.

Or will it be replaced by another, freshly serviced locomotive? More probable in the steam era. It's usually a lot easier to refresh carriages at a station than a steam locomotive (though of course in the steam era most larger stations and many smaller ones had basic servicing facilities such as coal and water available). Even so, servicing a steam loco takes a while, so the original locomotive might be uncoupled while a fresh locomotive backs onto the carriages and takes them on to their next destination (a station pilot for shunting or trips to carriage yards, or another locomotive for a return journey to wherever the train is going next).

As others have said there are plenty of permutations. At Euston in the 1980s for example it was common to see coaching stock uncoupled from the locomotive, hauled by a station pilot (such as a redundant class 82 or 83) to the carriage yards at Stonebridge Park, and then the locomotive would move itself either to Willesden for servicing or else to one of the waiting tracks (like a stabling point) inside Euston itself.

Cheers, NeMo

[martyn]

Hertford East (ex GER) had a centre release road; I'm not sure if Felixstowe Town did as well. 'British Railway Journal' (Wild Swan Publications) did a GER special edition with an article on Hertford East written by Mr Dave Taylor of the GER Society; it might be worth an email to the Society to see if they know.
FWIW, in my opinion, if the incoming train engine was released by the station 'pilot', or a second engine took the outward working, what was the point of the centre road? I think either 1 or 2 could happen-but, unfortunately, I have no proof. Hertford East actually had a three-way symmetric point connecting the two platform roads, and the third, centre, road went to a short 'dead end' which seems to have been used for stock storage.
HTH
Martyn

[Dorsetmike]

Another use for the centre road apart from loco release was for access by a gas tank wagon to replenish the gas for catering vehicle cookers and in earlier days for replenishing gas lighting. The gas tank wagon would be parked on the centre road dead end as mentioned in Martyn's post above.

Another movement for the station pilot (or the released loco) to keep interest up at exhibitions.

Thought; how did they replenish water supply for coach toilets and catering vehicles? (hose from stand pipe or water tank wagon?)

[martyn]

Mike;
I think you're right about a possible use of the centre road dead end; a wagon with replenishment gas supplies was stored here, though the only photo I have shows two 4-or 6-wheel coaches on it.
Water would have been by standpipe-think about it, you can't free-flow water from a lower level to the coach roof  .
As an aside,I think, at least in much later years, there could have been a steam-heat pipe from the platform to the lead coach. I'm sure there was one (or two) at Parkeston (Now Harwich International) to heat the stock. Presumably, this was not installed until diesel days. I might be suffering from poor memory, though. I'm sure I have also read somewhere that the LNER electrically-powered catering vehicles were plugged in to station supplies at termini, and it was not unknown for the plug to be forgotten on departure.....
Martyn

[Octavian30]

Further to the comments about Sydney Central - I spent many an evening there while there were still steam pilot engines and the occasional steam passenger train.
The few times a steam tender engine arrived it generally stopped short of the crossover then advanced and was released onto the middle road. This also happened with the big overnight named expresses with a variation listed below. Also sets that were earmarked to go back out later were usually handled this way to, the same serviced engine or a different one coming back from 'loco' to head out with the departing train later int he day/evening.
Other trains went right the buffers. The carriages were towed out by  the pilot and distributed to the carriage sheds/parcels sheds.
The only exceptions were the big named overnight expresses which were towed out of the platforms by their engine(s) running around and towing them to their special storage sidings some distance away. The variation on this for the really long ones (and for ordinary trains at holidays) was for a sort of rolling workout. Train A arrives and carriages  towed to ordinary carriage sidings by pilot. Train engine idles away till train B (long) arrives. It then is used to tow those carriages to the special sidings leaving Train engine(s) B to wait for the next special long train. sometimes there stayed where  they were and other times they moved to middle track to free up the platform face for an incoming train. When Train C arrives they tow the special carriage set off leaving train engine(s) C for train D and so forth.
Another wrinkle was that these special sets were usually brought to the platform by their train engines - which stop short, run round using the centre track then push the set fully into the platform. Alteratively on busy nights Set A would be brought by Engine (B). Which would uncouple and after engine A had tacked on the front and then departed - would wait for engine C to bring set B to another platform and do the same - or for the pilots to make up set B from ordinary stock and they would then depart at the head of that.
Hope all this helps

[steve836]

Hertford East (ex GER) had a centre release road; I'm not sure if Felixstowe Town did as well. 'British Railway Journal' (Wild Swan Publications) did a GER special edition with an article on Hertford East written by Mr Dave Taylor of the GER Society; it might be worth an email to the Society to see if they know.
FWIW, in my opinion, if the incoming train engine was released by the station 'pilot', or a second engine took the outward working, what was the point of the centre road? I think either 1 or 2 could happen-but, unfortunately, I have no proof. Hertford East actually had a three-way symmetric point connecting the two platform roads, and the third, centre, road went to a short 'dead end' which seems to have been used for stock storage.
HTH
Martyn

Have just checked my G.E.R. track plan, Felixtowe didn't have a central release road, Yarmouth South Town had a central track but no points at buffer end to release locose.
Liverpool street did have release roads between platforms 9 & 10. These persisted into B.R. days. I well remember that the station pilot often stood there between duties. Lots of smaller termini had release roads, or sometimes if there were a pair or tracks there would be points to release trapped locos, usually a scissors crossover. The release facilities were there so that it was possible for the train engine to run round its train and then take it on to its next destination, but when things were busy it was often better to have another engine back onto the train thus releasing the first one. An interesting arrangement on the G.E. section of B.R. was at Cromer where a train would run into Cromer, then reverse out of the station onto the wye and then go to Sheringham.