!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives  (Read 10105 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Arthur

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22957
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Hello again. Here is a link to my N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol BR Standard 9F class locomotives which I hope you will find useful. My apologies for the length of this video but though that inclusion of the Minitrix variant would be popular.
http://youtu.be/yNxfOYIB51M
Happy Modelling
Arthur

Offline MalcolmInN

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2290
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2014, 12:03:14 AM »
Thanks for the interesting review, very informative

Sorry if I've missed this somewhere along the line but , what radius curves are those ?

Thanks,
Malcolm.

Offline Arthur

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22957
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2014, 09:51:03 AM »
Hi Malcolm
Thanks for your feedback. The curves are 10" radius at both ends of the track. With three sets of dead frog points immediately after bends, this is a poor design for normal running but good testing ground for loco stability and pick up.
HTH
Arthur

Offline Roy L S

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2070
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2014, 10:09:34 AM »
Hi Malcolm
Thanks for your feedback. The curves are 10" radius at both ends of the track. With three sets of dead frog points immediately after bends, this is a poor design for normal running but good testing ground for loco stability and pick up.
HTH
Arthur

Hi Arthur

Than you for the review. Of course I appreciate that the scoring is merely your personal view of the product.

I notice that on the test-track you have a loop with what appear to be Set track points each end. The filming only show it negotiating the straight, not curved route over the points - how does it cope with the sharp reverse curves through the loop itself?

Second point relates to slow running. You ran the loco at quite a rapid speed for a 9F, and I know that on "Windcutters" on the GC they would frequently achieve 50mph plus, but how does it perform (1) as a more realistic freight speed of say a scale 30mph (2) at a dead-crawl, sleeper to sleeper for coupling up, shunting etc in comparison the (say) the Farish WD which is superb in both respects?

Third and finally, I appreciate your haulage test was an indicator, but in reality seven coaches (or say 17 wagons) would be nothing to the prototype, which on the above mentioned "Windcutters" would be expected to take 60 empties. How would it cope with (say) 30-40 wagons. The Farish WD can be a little light on it's feet here, mine are ok with about 30-35 free running wagons, do you think it has capacity to manage that kind of train?

I ask all of the above because I have two 9Fs from the first batch. They look fantastic, but slow running is pretty poor (especially dead crawl) and they run out of puff and start slipping with about 30 wagons. Also they will not negotiate Set track points (used in my fiddle-yard which all my Farish locos including the WD can). I am tempted to get a weathered one from the third batch, but only if performance in these respects is better.

Regards

Roy
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 10:54:20 AM by Roy L S »

Offline NeMo

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23720
  • Posts: 2678
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2014, 10:45:17 AM »
Arthur, I enjoyed your review, but like Roy, my subjective opinion was definitely different to yours. Perhaps this shows how we look for different things in model locomotives?

I have two 9Fs. In general terms they run well. But as Roy said, slow speed movement isn't great, and some of that I put down to the lack of weight over the driving wheels. This lack of weight presumably affects their haulage too, which I find adequate rather than impressive. There's a debate to be had whether we should expect model locomotives of powerful prototypes to be especially strong. After all, most Farish and Dapol models use (more or less) the same motors and voltages. So if you accept they will all be comparably strong, then you'll find the smallest engines stronger than they should be, and the biggest engines weaker. The 9F, unfortunately, sits at the top end of that range, hence its unimpressive haulage compared to the real thing.

Other annoyances: These models are also rather noisy. The connecting rod between the motor in the tender and the locomotive is flimsy and easily broken. External detail is very delicate; forgivable, perhaps, given the scale, but still scares me off from handling them much! Less forgivable are the weakly soldered wires between cab and tender that carry electricity. These come loose very quickly, and I end up sending them to BRLines for repairs a little too often! Derailing through some points is persistent, even with the front/pony truck spring upgrade thing.

As you said Arthur, in terms of looks they're lovely. Both of mine are weathered ones (one single chimney, one double) and they sit at that turning point at factory weathering when things went from simple airbrushed grime-coloured paint across everything towards a real attempt at prototypical, artistic weathering using multiple colours and methods.

One thing I'd suggest about review videos is that I'd prefer they were done after, say, 3 or 6 months of ownership. I know the temptation is to be the first to review a new model. But if you look at a lot of those online, they're extremely superficial, concentrating on livery, detailing, sometimes even packaging (who cares!). Waiting a few months will let the flaws of the model come through, if it has any.

I'd also like to see reviews of the train running through a landscaped model railway. Why? Because in my experience most/all trains run well (and quietly) along clean bits of Flexitrack or freshly laid Setrack. Things get more complicated when the train is negotiating complex sets of points, clanking over less than perfectly laid ballast (which is most ballasting, I'd wager) or track that's picked up a little grime or dust after a few weeks of running since the last clean. In other words, a realistic trial rather than a easy one.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline MalcolmInN

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2290
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2014, 11:21:15 AM »
I will have to play Arthur's review again to get all the batch information into my poor limited brain cell :)

Are some of the previous batches still commonly on sale from the major vendors ?
Sorry for the newby question, but if they are I would have to make careful note of Arthur's numbers before buying :(

Roy, good point about the points !

NeMo, which batch are your two from ?

If anyone has these locos running on Kato curves and No4 points that would be an interesting read as well :) :) did you spot the big hint folks :) :)

EDIT a few moments later !
 I have just spotted the thread "Dapol 9F first and second batch", gosh 102 replies in it, that takes care of my lunchtime reading :) see you all later , , , :)
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 11:26:45 AM by MalcolmAL »

Offline NeMo

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23720
  • Posts: 2678
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2014, 01:52:49 PM »
NeMo, which batch are your two from ?
One of the later batches; ND090m and ND090n I believe.

If anyone has these locos running on Kato curves and No4 points that would be an interesting read as well :) :) did you spot the big hint folks :) :)
Mine derail consistently on "as supplied" Kato No.4 points; manage the curves fine though.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline Arthur

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22957
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2014, 01:58:45 PM »
Hi Malcolm
The Batch information is from my own observations and not from any official source so there may be errors. Perhaps if there are, some kind soul will publish an 'Official' list on this Forum for all to use. There may be old stock in new condition out there but probably not the major shops. I suspect that the Auction sites are the best source of older batch models, should you be after a particular loco.
Cannot help on Kato, have you tried the American N Scale forums?
Regards
Arthur

Offline Newportnobby

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+98)
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 21962
  • Posts: 34434
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2014, 04:04:53 PM »
Problems with Kato #4 points have oft been reported on the forum so please don't blame your poor old 9F for derailing on them :no:
I believe there is a solution to many kinds of loco dropping off the Kato #4's but it involves some judicious filing of the tracks to allow the point blades to sit better in the stock rails.

Offline MalcolmInN

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2290
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2014, 06:09:53 PM »
on "as supplied" Kato No.4 points
Thanks NeMo, I 1/2 expected to hear that, it's the no4 problem that is causing me to sit back and scratch my head instead of buying a load of Kato tomorrow ! :(

NPN > all noted thanks and that is prob. why NeMo put the  "as supplied"  in
I am still reading up on the mods needed but it is a terrible thing to have to do to 20squids of new point !

I'm not even sure if it can be done to the newer moulding of Kato ballast ? The American sources seem to show the older printed in type ballast.
All I know so far is that in the straight and curved bits of Kato that I had for a brief time the rails were a very tight fit, so I'm not sure the rails could easily be pushed out of the new No4s to do the fileing needed.

I'm reading NeMo's threads before I ask him about No6s and  moded4s :)

Sorry for the diversion,
back to 9Fs,
they do look very nice and would well fit into my "window" of sometime between (dont mention)The War and '69 :)



Offline Toneeze

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 11231
  • Posts: 137
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2014, 06:11:53 PM »
Having watched the 9F video,I thought the review wasn`t thorough enough.The last batch of 9Fs derailed on my electrofrog points, nearly every time.I would have thought that the reviewer would have run these through his points to see if there was any improvement.I have 5 9Fs and all are waiting for me to replace the front pony wheels and spring. :thankyousign:

Offline NeMo

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23720
  • Posts: 2678
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2014, 08:30:43 PM »
I'm not even sure if it can be done to the newer moulding of Kato ballast ? The American sources seem to show the older printed in type ballast.
All I know so far is that in the straight and curved bits of Kato that I had for a brief time the rails were a very tight fit, so I'm not sure the rails could easily be pushed out of the new No4s to do the fileing needed.
Hmm... the No. 4 Kato points I have are relatively new (12-18 months old?) and I didn't have a huge problem pulling the rails out. But I only did one of them. By the time I learned about the trick I'd already glued and ballasted the points in place! So in the end decided to have one 9F friendly oval around the layout without any points in it at all. But that said, there's plenty of discussion about fixing No. 4 points online, especially on US forums where the problem is well known. The No. 6 points don't seem to have this flaw, by the way, so could be used instead if you have the space.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline Arthur

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22957
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2014, 10:36:16 PM »
Hi Roy and Nemo
Thanks for your feedback and points raised.
Roy correctly observed the Set track loop which I did not send the 9f's through, either on camera or not. You could put that down to old age and no script.

Scale Speed is a whole subject area but Malcolm notes the high speed in the video,agreed.Very train set of me. I also remember the windcutters, it wasn't the loaded trains, which were still fast by normal freight standards, but the Northbound empties that were impressive. The noise of these trains, high speed and loose coupled, going over the Birdcage Bridge at Rugby was something else. If you were lucky you could observe this phenomena whilst a Northbound freight on the London Midland lines below, dragged itself past you at well below 20 MPH, hauled by a Stanier 8F or maybe even a G2A. I digress!

I share the general concerns expressed by NeMo about lack of weight, maybe these models are being built to the same standards as washing machines where the motors and drive trains will stop working in precisely two years? I certainly expect to see some modified/butchered transmissions in future as I believe that the 9f is too popular a locomotive to disappear from our layouts.

I plead guilty to mentioning packaging in the videos. I own N gauge locomotives getting on for 50 years old. The locos are fine but the packaging has suffered the ravages of time. I have a pet hate of plastic based windows/inserts etc that become brittle, cracked or detached at the first opportunity. Both Peco and Graham Farish were equally guilty. Does this qualify as a rant?

Reading further comments, perhaps a follow up review in 6 months time is warranted but then again, with batch production,the most popular variants may be sold out by then.

I heartily thank Roy and NeMo for their constructive comments.

Offline MalcolmInN

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 2290
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2014, 11:19:25 PM »
NeMo, thanks for the followup / info, all good grist for the mill :)
I had sort of been thinking along similar lines, an outer (or other) oval/region that would take the 'express' or big boy locos with a No6 or two into the station area. Then the yards/goods/coach servicing areas off the station would have No4s with a wee loco ( 'station pilot' ? is that the correct terminology) to do the Inglenooking :)

I have initially only about 5ft by 30ins on a table top in a spare room (maybe 6ft if I build a superstructure baseboard to overhang the ends, but that is from choice so as not to get too carried away to start ! Later, maybe next summer, another spare room has 9ftx3ft available or  I could move into the attic room and loft space that would give me about 30ftx20ft, eeek ! not for a while yet ;) it would need some serious throwing away of centuries of accumulated stuff !
But now I am straying into Layout Planning territory, sorry.

Arthur, "Scale Speed is a whole subject area but Malcolm notes the high speed in the video,agreed.Very train set of me."
Actually, I think that was one of the others who posted that, but yes, I know the feeling, but there you go we're all just big kids at heart ! I bet everyone here has wound things up first off before giving themselves an adult slap on the wrist and a sober attempt to measure a scale speed of 30mph, lol!

Offline Arthur

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 22957
  • Posts: 24
  • Country: gb
    • Awards
Re: N Gauge review No 3 of Dapol of BR Standard 9F class locomotives
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2014, 12:06:09 AM »
Hi Toneeze
Sorry to hear about your problems. Five locos off roster is no fun but you forgot to mention the radius of your points.

I believe that a recommended minimum radius of 10 1/2 inches in N Gauge exists.  As previously stated my 'toy' test track has 10" radius curves. These feed directly in three instances into points with a radius of 9". The fact that most steam models will get round this non prototypical route is a tribute to their manufacture but asking a 2-10-0 to do this is a step too far, in my estimation.

If you want totally foolproof running sessions then points should all be off straights, and curves have the maximum radius that you can achieve say15" or so.


 

Please Support Us!
May Goal: £60.00
Due Date: May 31
Total Receipts: £95.00
Above Goal: £35.00
Site Currency: GBP
158% 
May Donations

anything
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal