New Dapol

[red_death]

Hi could you expand on the 'childish way that both manufactures are attempting to score points off one another' I am genuinely interested to read some examples.

Hi Dan

You do not have to search too far back in time (say in the Yahoo groups) to see what is being referred to - some of the comments and marketing (particularly from Dapol) were quite bitchy at times.  Duplication on things like the 9F, Voyager etc etc (and host of other announcements that both companies made, some of which were later cancelled).

Neither side were/are blameless and it is fair to say that relations seem to have improved.

Cheers, Mike

[H]

Farish have taken a stance of not announcing new products until they are almost at market,

They may have stated that but they still seem to announce, show EPs (at places like the NGS AGM and TINGS) and then take their time getting products to market. For example we're still waiting for the some of the class 101s (announced 10 years ago), the Farish buses (announced at least two years ago) and others plus many of the new products in the brochure published at the start of this year won't be with us until next year at the earliest. But not that Dapol are any better these days. Although to some extent it's understandable.

I don't think it takes a vast stretch of the imagination that Tornado would lead to Farish re-vamping the A3s and A4s (I think this is what people are referring to by potential competition).

Of course the big issue here is when will they re-vamp those models. They have such a large number of old poor quality models in the Farish range that it'll take a good many years to get around to upgrading them (even if they actually bother to do them all). Presumably the class 20 will be next (it's been announced but nothing seen of it yet) but what after that? - there's no guarantee it will be an A3/4.

From a negative viewpoint, and I agree with those who say that this thread has been very negative and knocking in receiving Dapols announcments from the outset, I'm disappointed that the class 92 has been put on the back burner. But the news of new working couplers from Dapol is very welcome. And I'm looking forward to the class 411 4CEP from Farish whenever that arrives.

So to all the moaners and detractors, may your god go with you and your chosen model train arrive on time and in working order.

H.

[elmo]

One thing that has not been metioned yet, and it concerns me is that farish continually re-reease their products but Dapol make a couple of batches then stop. We really need rolling releases such as the farish approach to keep people in the hobby. By way of example, as far back as 1982 our family moved house so had a last visit to our local model shop. Three of us each purchased a farish loco. I had a relatively new then class 37. Still produced and a now with new tooling. My old man and brother purchased a GWR pannier and prairie. Both still being released (but in much need of upgrading). Anyone starting out in N gauge since 1982 could and still can buy these locos.
When dapol brought out the 14xx and 45xx I rubbed my hands and spent some money but someone starting out now cannot do so so could give N gauge a miss and set up an oo layout where these locos are plentiful.
Will dapol continue production of the hall for example? If not it is back to farish, but will they continue production of something that is so lacking by todays standards or would they be likely to do a costly modern rebuild if Dapol could if they wished do a re-run of their model?
With Dapols current short production run policy I can foresee gaps being left in the market where dapol have done a loco then moved onto something else  but farish and potentially other manufacturers not being willing to spend money doing something that has already been done e.g. 9F.
Elmo

[H]

One thing that has not been metioned yet, and it concerns me is that farish continually re-reease their products but Dapol make a couple of batches then stop. We really need rolling releases such as the farish approach to keep people in the hobby.

A couple of points there;

Firstly Farish have already junked some of their older inherited models and will not be re-releasing them. In fact several more were missing from the last Farish catalogue.

Secondly, Dapol have recently been asking which models they previously produced as short runs should they re-produce and re-launch - so I guess they will get around to gradually re-issuing them from their back catalogue.

Thirdly, I doubt that the market is growing as quickly as the number of new product releases we're almost being bombarded with. That means older ones need to drop off from production otherwise there will be an over-supply and huge stocks of unsold products. And that wont encourage manufcaturers to develop new ones.

Finally, the old models have been superceded in quality and fidelity terms. Many old ones are pretty poor and don't really stand comparison with modern production (lights, DCC, finer wheels, NEM coupling pockets, etc). I doubt many of them would sell in todays market. I'm sure there's plenty of stock and choice to attract newcomers and keep people in the hobby. But I certainly wouldn't be attracted by a diet of old and comparitively inaccurate and poor quality models.

H.

[RWJP]

elmo, in a number of cases, Dapol have done rolling releases... 66s were produced over a fair number of batches, including some fairly drastic improvements to things like bogie-sideframes, and DCC socket fitting. 67s are the same, so were the 9Fs and HSTs.

Dapol have always marketed their models as fairly limited editions due to the smaller manufacturing capability they have.

Also, for models like the 14xx and Class 73, they've been so out-stripped by the quality of more recent releases, so they may not sell as well, if at all. I remember picking up my 14xx very soon after release, and thinking how stunning it was. Now we have models like the Terrier, which are even better.

To Truffles, spot on! The fact that this thread deteriorated into the usual Dapol-Bashing so quickly is what got me so riled in the first place. For whatever reason, people seem to have latched on to the idea that bashing Dapol is the cool thing to do, and will make them more respected amongst their peers, or whatever.

Why do we not see more people bashing Farish about their 9F, the 101s, 222s, LMS 2MT Tender locos (I preordered one something like 3 years ago!), new micro-trains style couplings etc etc. It seems that people will forgive Farish all their mistakes and issues without a moments thought, yet apparently Dapol deserve absolutely all the criticism for doing exactly the same thing...

On the comments regarding the Magnificent 7 models, that when they were originally announced Dapol stated that they would bring them to market when they decided that there was a place for them, taking various things into account.

Also, people seem to have forgotten which models were actually on the magnificent seven list. The Magnificent 7 were: Pendolino, HST, Class 153, B1, Class 26, 28xx and the Class 56. Of those, the HST, Class 153, Class 26 and B1 have all been released. The Pendolino was officially put on hold a fair while ago, so out of the original 7, only the 28xx and 56 are missing. The Class 92 and Class 142 were not announced until at least a year later (Class 142 was announced 2010 IIRC), and of course, the 92 has also been put on hold. Beyond that, we have also had the Britannia, Class 86, Class 58, Terrier, Class 67, DVT, Class 156, Class 121, Hall all released as well. So OK, we're missing 4 models that were announced. But we've been given 10 other models instead! And that's excluding releases like the Silver Bullets and Mk3s.

At least with Dapol, if one item doesn't appear, something else will.

That's why I think the moaning about Dapol releases jumping each other is utterly pointless and a waste of air. What is announced will come out eventually, and if it doesn't, it means Dapol probably have something else up their sleeves anyway.

Ross

[red_death]

Ross

I am not sure why a thread about Dapol would contain criticism of Farish! Needless to say on here (and plenty of other forums) there has been strong criticism of Farish as well at different points.

No one is pretending that at times Farish have not had problems. FWIW I don't think that Dapol bashing is any more prevalent than Farish bashing. 

Comparing what has come out from Dapol with the Magnificent 7 is more than a little disingenuous - I don't think Dapol ever claimed that the Mag 7 were the only things that would be worked on!

Cheers, Mike

[elmo]

Regardless of the 14xx etc not being as detailed as newer locos such as the terrier, if you want a  GWR layout you might like a 14xx, you will very probably need a pannier but you are not likely to need a terrier, so a new GWR modeller will wish to see GWR models. The pannier, although outdated is still produced and still sells. Dapol have 'asked the audience' and re-runs could happen. If Farish did not make a profit from rereleasing old items they would not do it. The fact that the pannier & prairie still sell after all this time shows that a market still exists, and this will no doubt  will include numerous new N gauge modellers.
With the costs of finely detailed models continuing to rise there needs to be a cheap alternative to bring new people, generally kids into N gauge. Hornby created the 'Railroad range' with their old and acquired models and it is aimed at getting the youngster into the hobby. I dread to think how much I have spent on railways. It runs into thousands of pounds and it all started with a bright red clockwork loco that came with a bright yellow truck and a bright blue truck.
I was in a model shop in Plymouth a couple of Decembers ago and watched as some horrified grandparents looked at the cost of model locomotives and left the shop without buying little Johnny that train set. The hobby needs kids to keep it going, and N gauge needs a 'railroad range'.
I donated an N gauge test layout to a mate in work for his 11 year old grandson. He is still at the age of wanting to race trains in circles. Granddad looked at a sales area on a web site and purchased a dapol class 73 and 45xx. Good models but lots of breakable parts. Both are well used but the 73 is now minus a couple of buffers and the 45xx has lost its coal. With granddad moaning about the breaks and the cost of locos I gave him an old farish 08. This inaccurate old mechanism loco is now the pride of the fleet and the lad is still at the stage of being happy running a shunter around in circles at 100mph but things will progress as now granddad and grandson are going to build a proper layout.
One for you H, we went to the Salisbury model railway exhibition last year where Hedges Hill Cutting was making an appearance. This was grandsons favourite layout and he was allowed around the back to have a go! He still wanted the trains to faster though!!!
Elmo

[Richard @ N'Tastic Scale Models]

Magnificent 7 was a list put together at short notice to announced new items at the open day because BRA sent the new catalogue out early. It was understood at the time that it would be a few years before we saw them.

[longbridge]

Sorry lads but this one has run long enough, the topic is now locked