Base board tops

[geoffc]

I am starting to build a new layout, it will be 3 boards 4' x 31" joined to give a length of 12'
I have decided due to my limited carpentry skills to make the frames from 4" x 3/4" softwood cross braced every 16". The bracing pieces every 16" will have lightening holes drilled in them to save weight and make it easier for wiring.

The layout will be in the lounge.

I am after some suggestions regarding the top.
Should I use Sundeala either 6, 9 or 12 mm thick, MDF or ply?
Would a sheet of 6mm ply or MDF with with 6mm Sundeala glued to it give a quieter layout?
Has anybody used ply or MDF with a thin 3mm thick foam board on top to quieten the layout?

Geoff

[Malc]

Speaking from personal experience, decide on your track plan before fixing the cross bracing in place, otherwise it may foul the point motors. You may have to move one a cm or two.  I used 6 ml  MDF for the top and as the base is fairly rigid, you don't get too much noise, especially if you stand it on rubber feet.

[geoffc]

Thanks for that Malc, I had planned to fit the baseboard to the outside frame and longitudinal brace, and then mark where the points motors etc fit before fitting the transverse bracing. Did you get your MDF from a diy store or a proper timber merchant?

Geoff














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[Malc]

My layout is 6 x 4 so I just bought 3 of. 2ft x. 4ft pieces from B & Q. I needed to build it in panels to get it into the railway room loft

[Newportnobby]

This one uses 9mm Sundeala as it is easily cut and readily accepts track pins without drilling. Beware - before use it does need conditioning as per the instructions if the layout is likely to be subjected to extremes of temperature. If the layout will be permanently in the lounge you shouldn't suffer that problem but if cut, for example, in a relatively cold garage I'd suggest the pieces are stored in the lounge afterwards for 48 hours.
Whatever surface you use, cross bracing will, in effect, create a 'drum' so you may wish to consider some sort of underlay for the track. In my case I used 1.5mm commercial grade rubber (and suffered for my art with many ribald comments!). Hope this helps.

[kirky]

Personally I've tried Sundeala, MDF and ply. Without a doubt the most successful for me is ply. 6mm ply to be exact. And in fact 6 mil ply usually measures about 5.4 mil!
Sundeala just warps too easily, it's too soft and not a good material for model railways. MDF on the other hand is stable, but too hard. It's difficult to drill and then it doesn't hold screws, pins etc well either. Ply is light ish, it's strong, it's stable and accepts pins screws etc well. All of course IMHO.
For an underlay, on top of the ply, under the ballast, you would do worse than to consider plastazote. It's discussed in the Northallerton thread, link in my sig.

[Bealman]

I have always used ply. It doesn't like track pins and is noisey, but to be honest, noise from running trains has never bothered me!

It's strong and with suitable framing, will not warp.

[Sprintex]

I used 6mm MDF this time, but have gone to great lengths to prevent it warping. However, the general concensus last time we had a poll on this was that 6mm or 9mm ply was the most popular choice for reasons already stated by others and therefore I will probably go with that for the next one

If you're worried about noise then you'd be better going with ply and using either cork or rubber under the track, preferably gluing the track down with something like Copydex as pinning the track will only transmit noise to the board. If you're planning to ballast your track then again, the usual PVA/water mix used will set rock hard and transmit noise, so you may need to extend the cork/rubber beyond the track boundary? Some people even go as far as covering the complete board in cork or similar to achieve a quiet layout. Personally I think trains should be noisy as they are in real life


Paul

[weave]

Thanks for that Malc, I had planned to fit the baseboard to the outside frame and longitudinal brace, and then mark where the points motors etc fit before fitting the transverse bracing. Did you get your MDF from a diy store or a proper timber merchant?

Geoff

Hi Geoff,

I'm using 6mm MDF at the moment as doing a small layout and find it easier to cut neatly than ply.

For your original board I would recommend a proper timber merchant. DIY stores are expensive and Builders Merchants who sell 8' x 4' sheets tend not to cut it for you.

Ring round as I found a place that will cut the big board to whatever you like. Think £1 a cut but well worth the no hassle neat finish.

I use homebase cork tiles on the board but only really to raise the track as do continental and we have low platforms. Whether it stops noise...who cares!

Cheers weave

[Newportnobby]

Sundeala just warps too easily, it's too soft and not a good material for model railways. .

On my 4th layout now with Sundeala and no warping issues experienced, although all the layouts have been 'house bound'. Yes it's soft, but that allows easy cutting/shaping and track pins can be just pushed in with a pair of small nosed pliers. Providing it's braced well I just can't fault it, although beware inhaling dust when cutting with a saw (wear a suitable mask). As has been said, the 'normal' ballasting method will create noise anyway.

[jonclox]

I used Sundeala on my 1st layout and wasn't impressed with the results even though it was well supported it still managed to sag in time.
This time Im using a much lighter and stronger sub frame with a 9mm sheet of ply top with 1.5mm cork under the track. It seems to be ok and the noise isnt great.

[Bealman]

Yep, that's exactly my method. Of course, the ballasting negates the cork, but like Paul, the sound doesn't bother me.

[macwales]

Hi

I am on my 5th layout (4x because of house moves). I have had 2 x spare bedroom layouts, 1 x garden shed (unheated), 1x garage layout (unheated) and a shed in a garage (present and heated).

In all, I have used scrap chipboard or mdf sheets on a minimum softwood frame with softwood legs for support or an old chest of drawers, table etc. On top I have always used Sundeala. Some of the original Sundeala from the 1980's is still in use (after years of storage at times in the loft). I have generally cut the Sundeala to the shape I want for the track and sometimes placed it on similarly shaped (with a jigsaw) chipboard / mdf pieces as an easy way to  construct a lower level embankment. To keep costs down only the trackbed and stations / sidings areas are Sundeala covered. This requires a lot of cutting so an electric  table saw and jigsaw help a lot.

I would recommend using plenty of strut supports for the chipboard rather than mainly tables, chests, etc if a lot of building  lighting is to be installed so access underneath is maintained. However channels can easily be made in the surface of Sundeala to allow for a 'ring main' of wires. The channels can then be hidden with card or other scenic coverings.

All my layouts have had an upper level constructed from the same shaped  cut chipboard with Sudeala on top or just Sundeala - all well supported on 2x1 inch cut softwood battens every 10 cm or so glued to the lower level with PVA and screwed or nailed to the upper chipboard with the Sundeala covering the nail / screwheads. When only Sudeala was used I fix it to the batten supports with flat head long tacks.

The supports allow for tunnels on the lower and wiring for the upper level to be accommodated and allows access to the tunnels in case of derailments.

I have even built slopes (some curved as Sundeala will bend a little) like this but it did involve complex filing of the chipboard and Sundeala to get slope starts and tops rounded so as to allow the track to start from level onto the slope properly.

I have never had much running noise but I do use foam underlay ballast.

It has always proved non sagging and robust but all layouts have been permanent - not portable. However when dismantled I have kept most of the cut pieces (chipboard and Sundeala separated) and reused them in the next layout. All the layouts have been different designs.

Cheers

Mac 

[kirky]

Sundeala just warps too easily, it's too soft and not a good material for model railways. .

On my 4th layout now with Sundeala and no warping issues experienced, although all the layouts have been 'house bound'. Yes it's soft, but that allows easy cutting/shaping and track pins can be just pushed in with a pair of small nosed pliers. Providing it's braced well I just can't fault it, although beware inhaling dust when cutting with a saw (wear a suitable mask). As has been said, the 'normal' ballasting method will create noise anyway.

Yes, it amazes me that some people have this experience, but they most certainly do. They fully support Nobby's experiences. Its just not my experience.
Ive got a feeling that Sundeala, like most sheet materials come in different grades. Perhaps I managed to get hold of some poor grade Sundeala and its ruined my impression of it?

Actually Im wondering whether or not you (Nobby) used it as a sheet or whether used openframe construction and cut it as a track bed?

Cheers
kirky

[Bealman]

Hi kirky

I'm going off topic, but...

Living where you do, are you going to Hartlepool show? If so, please take piccies - I'm a way always at moment!

Back to topic...