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Author Topic: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's  (Read 16628 times)

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Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2013, 09:18:21 AM »
Does that apply only to the 101; I have in front of me a Grafar class 25 with brass gears and a 5 pole motor.
It has never been meddled with.

Applies to all I believe - the 5 pole armature did not come in until 83/84 with the white nylon gears. These were only used for a couple of years and then the same armature was used with black plastic gears until the early 90s when it was retooled to a similar 5 pole unit, but with balanced windings and a silver commutator.

Either your model is being mis-identified (the 5 pole unit has 5 coils on the armature, the 3 poles look very similar at a glance but have 3 coils), or it's been changed at some stage. Or it;s a very rare oddity  :o but I think that's unlikely.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Online NinOz

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2013, 11:39:25 AM »
Applies to all I believe - the 5 pole armature did not come in until 83/84 with the white nylon gears. These were only used for a couple of years and then the same armature was used with black plastic gears until the early 90s when it was retooled to a similar 5 pole unit, but with balanced windings and a silver commutator.

Either your model is being mis-identified (the 5 pole unit has 5 coils on the armature, the 3 poles look very similar at a glance but have 3 coils), or it's been changed at some stage. Or it;s a very rare oddity  :o but I think that's unlikely.

Cheers,
Alan
Has 5 poles, brass gears, bought it new from Hattons way back, Grafar stamped, never been altered to my knowledge, little run.
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
I tried so hard to be snobbish and haughty.

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Offline siriushardware

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2013, 06:58:12 PM »
Thanks for the info about how to get into the unit - turns out that this one is the type with the motor bogie suspended from an inverted 'U' bracket which clips into small holes in the sides of the lower frame of the 101 motor car - I don't think I would have worked that out.

On first inspection there are some things I notice immediately -

-3 pole (not five pole) motor. The commutator looks quite dirty.

-One side of the aforementioned bracket is flecked with brass powder / filings, presumably from the brass worm on the end of the armature.

-The insides of the body frames are wet with brass-coloured paste - I presume grease previously located on the worm was flung off it onto the frames, and then the worm was run dry for a while, causing brass filings to follow and embed themselves in the grease. Despite all that, the worm does not look too bad.

I'll take some photos before I do anything with it and I'll upload them (if I can master the system for doing that on this forum).

Offline oreamnos

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2013, 07:11:21 PM »
This is a fascinating thread.  I'm particularly intrigued by the 5 pole, brass geared 25.  If it was meddled with (and I'm not saying it was) I wonder if brass geared bogies were swapped into a 5 pole chassis, or if a 5 pole armature was swapped into a 3 pole chassis with brass geared bogies.  My money would be on the former - it's a much easier job than changing the armature (one screw to unscrew instead of several) and would have been a quick fix for a loco that had split gears.  I seem to remember swapping a spare 5 pole armature into a chassis (I don't remember what loco, might even have been a steamer) that originally was 3 pole and having to deal with clearance issues because the diameter of the 5 pole is slightly greater than the 3 pole armature.  But my memory is not what it used to be.

Matt


Online NinOz

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2013, 07:42:24 PM »

"One side of the aforementioned bracket is flecked with brass powder / filings, presumably from the brass worm on the end of the armature.

-The insides of the body frames are wet with brass-coloured paste - I presume grease previously located on the worm was flung off it onto the frames, and then the worm was run dry for a while, causing brass filings to follow and embed themselves in the grease. Despite all that, the worm does not look too bad."

I had two merchant navy chassis from this period just slowly grind the worms and gears away despite lubing frequently so be alert.  Strangely none of the other brass gears have gone this route.

This is a fascinating thread.  I'm particularly intrigued by the 5 pole, brass geared 25.  If it was meddled with (and I'm not saying it was) I wonder if brass geared bogies were swapped into a 5 pole chassis, or if a 5 pole armature was swapped into a 3 pole chassis with brass geared bogies.  My money would be on the former - it's a much easier job than changing the armature (one screw to unscrew instead of several) and would have been a quick fix for a loco that had split gears.  I seem to remember swapping a spare 5 pole armature into a chassis (I don't remember what loco, might even have been a steamer) that originally was 3 pole and having to deal with clearance issues because the diameter of the 5 pole is slightly greater than the 3 pole armature.  But my memory is not what it used to be.

Matt
The 25 was released in 1983. This was the transition period for brass to plastic gears and for 3 to 5 pole.  They were not at the same time and the 25 is an example of the transition.  I have a Class 50 and 55 which were released in 1984 these are 5 pole and have white plastic gears.
I have been running Farish from 1973 so I have a collection which spans the years.
Amazed that you guys can't accept a simple fact. :hmmm:
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
I tried so hard to be snobbish and haughty.

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Offline oreamnos

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2013, 09:22:52 PM »
I never said I didn't accept it.  I am just intrigued because I've never heard of one of these mix-and-match examples before.  It seems like Poole was doing its own "meddling" with what was left in its parts bin during this transitional period.

Matt

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2013, 11:25:26 PM »
Some of the brass gear motor bogies definitely had problems with wearing gears if the motor worm and gears in the motor bogie were all brass, and that was confirmed by Farish. Fix is plastic for the gear the worm drives.

It doesn't seem to be a problem with the other all brass setups hoewever - or at least not so much.

Alan
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline colpatben

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2014, 12:56:05 PM »
Hi all
Just got an old 101 (Farish 8143) with the motor in the frame, driving the two bogies through a worm at each end. It Runs well and has good slow speed in both directions, although it 'Growls' it doesn't click (indicative of split gears).

Mucky with grease in the gears and need to be dissembled for cleaning and thorough inspection.
Do I need to remove the bogies first to get to the screws that hold the longitudinal drive shaft and motor, and if so how?

Many thanks
We never have problems, only solutions!

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Offline JonathanC

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2014, 05:51:22 AM »
I've got one with split gears. It has never worked from day one. I have obtained replacement gears from BR Lines, but there is one I can't supply. If anyone has other suggestions on where to source them from, please let me know.

Online Bealman

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2014, 05:54:13 AM »
Mate, I have THREE sets of green ones, all with split gears. Very common fault.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline PaulCheffus

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2014, 09:03:57 AM »
I've got one with split gears. It has never worked from day one. I have obtained replacement gears from BR Lines, but there is one I can't supply. If anyone has other suggestions on where to source them from, please let me know.


Hi

Which gear is it as the N Gauge Society also supply some of the gears.

http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=ngs-shop-ngs-3-14

SSP011 FARISH 12 TOOTH GEARS X 10 (S00126546) £6.50
SSP012 FARISH 16 TOOTH GEARS X 10 (S00126546) £6.50
SSP013 25 TOOTH REPLACEMENT GEARS £3.25

Cheers

Paul
Procrastination - The Thief of Time.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2014, 09:04:28 AM »
I've got one with split gears. It has never worked from day one. I have obtained replacement gears from BR Lines, but there is one I can't supply. If anyone has other suggestions on where to source them from, please let me know.

Apparently Martin Richter of Lytchett Manor Models is doing a new run of his own tooling of gears, including the elusive 16 and 25 tooth type 2 (as used internally in the chassis block of the 101).

Not sure when they'll come on stream.

You may also beable to source from the NGS (their gears are also Martin's), but when I enquired they frustratingly would not split sets into individual types of gear, instead you'd have to buy a set consisting of every type Farish made.  :doh:

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Dr Al

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2014, 09:06:38 AM »
SSP011 FARISH 12 TOOTH GEARS X 10 (S00126546) £6.50
SSP012 FARISH 16 TOOTH GEARS X 10 (S00126546) £6.50
SSP013 25 TOOTH REPLACEMENT GEARS £3.25

It'll almost certainly be those on the armature and driveshafts which are 16 and 25 tooth, BUT are of a different type and therefore the ones above won't fit (the type you need, called 'type 2' by Bob at BR Lines is long out of stock and has a smaller diameter central hole).

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.” – Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline JonathanC

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2014, 09:41:24 AM »
Thanks for the replies. It's what Alan said, the gear with the smaller diameter hole. I will check out the NGS -  I am in the process of joining.

Offline DesertHound

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Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2015, 09:26:03 AM »
Thanks for the replies. It's what Alan said, the gear with the smaller diameter hole. I will check out the NGS -  I am in the process of joining.


I'm a bit late to this discussion but was just reading through it for some information.

Jonathan, you might wish to read through my thread here on a fix for the split gear problem with the DMU's.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25303.0

It might not be to everyone's liking, but it worked well for me on the first occasion. Admittedly I did repair a second one (from memory I installed a new armature) and this one is drawing 110mA in one direction and 150mA in the other. Therefore I need to investigate and see if the issue lies with my alignment of the intermediate gears. Not a shocking reading, but I would expect equal(ish) readings from both directions.

Feel free to PM me or ask on here if you need further help with this. As you say, there are no press-fit gears available, so it's a case of working out another method for repair.

Best

Daniel
Visit www.thefarishshed.com for all things Poole Farish and have the confidence to look under the bonnet of your locos!

 

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