!!

Not Registered?

Welcome!  Please register to view all of the new posts and forum boards - some of which are hidden to guests.  After registering and gaining 10 posts you will be able to sell and buy items on our N'porium.

If you have any problems registering, then please check your spam filter before emailing us.  Hotmail users seem to find their emails in the Junk folder.


Thanks for reading,
The NGF Staff.

Author Topic: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units  (Read 11606 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline REGP

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19246
  • Posts: 1219
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« on: March 29, 2014, 07:52:54 PM »
I have been considering fitting chips to my Farish 101 and  Dapol HST and need to clarify a few points before I start and hopefully someone will be able to advise me.

DECODERS -  Please correct me if I am wrong but I understand 2 chips are needed but they don't have to be the same make (or as expensive) as each other i.e.
      The motorised unit should have the better of the two chips
      The  none motorised unit chip will only have to operate the lights so a cheaper one will suffice.

PROGRAMMING - Do I have to programme both chips in the motorised unit?

ADDRESSES - Do both chips have the same address?
                    (I can't think why not, but not being techie I am asking just in case)

DIRECTION OF TRAVEL - Will the none motorised trailers direction of travel be programmed the same as motorised unit or the reverse?

Sorry to post such basic questions but want to minimise problems as I create enough of my own without trying.

Ray

Offline Only Me

  • Western Destroyer
  • NGF Technician
  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23206
  • Posts: 5921
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Western Destroyer
    • Northants & Cambs Area Group of the NGS
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2014, 08:16:41 PM »
Hiya, yes do put cheap chip in the dummy and a good one such as a Digitrax dz125IN into the power unit. 

Programme both chips to the same address in the motorised unit first.

When you put the cheap chip into the dummy and it runs in reverse the lights will be reversed too :)


Always best to ask... :)



Offline DCCDave

  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 982
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Facebook
    • Instagram
    • Google+
    • MySpace
    • PhotoBucket
    • Twitter
    • Skype
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2014, 08:19:36 PM »
DECODERS -  Please correct me if I am wrong but I understand 2 chips are needed but they don't have to be the same make (or as expensive) as each other i.e.
      The motorised unit should have the better of the two chips
      The  none motorised unit chip will only have to operate the lights so a cheaper one will suffice.

Correct - a good one for motor control, a cheaper one for the lights in the non-motorised car.

PROGRAMMING - Do I have to programme both chips in the motorised unit?

It's generally recommended, although I've never found it necessary to do so, I program the lights only chip in the non-mororised car

ADDRESSES - Do both chips have the same address?
                    (I can't think why not, but not being techie I am asking just in case)

Yes, otherwise you'd need to form a consist

DIRECTION OF TRAVEL - Will the none motorised trailers direction of travel be programmed the same as motorised unit or the reverse?

Sure so that the lights operate in  tandem

Sorry to post such basic questions but want to minimise problems as I create enough of my own without trying.

No need to apologise, we all started from the same place as you!

Cheers
Dave

Online BobB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 27926
  • Posts: 546
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2014, 08:25:20 PM »
Yes, two decoders are required, one for each end of the multiple unit.

It is most convenient for both of them to have the same address, otherwise they need to be run as a consist with all of the attendant complexities.

The unit with the electric motor should have the best decoder (however you decide to rate it !) and the non-motorized unit only needs a decoder to operate the lights.

If you are fitting sound, then look at the prototype engines. For example, a power twin class 101 (or three or four car unit) needs a sound chip and speaker in each end to give the sound of four engines more or less in unison. On the other hand a HST definitely needs two sound chips, one at either end, or else the sound will be just wrong.

(I'm not quite sure how the sound should be for the six car blue Pullman since it had four units with power, two for traction and two for cooking. Try sorting that out ! Extra volume for bacon and egg ?)

The cost of the decoders with or without sound can be significant for dmu's and emu's but in my opinion it is worth it for transition and modern layouts.

Offline sparky

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 755
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2014, 08:28:26 PM »
Just one additional point...if the dmu has 2 motors as some models do then use 2 of the same chip..one in each unit using the same address..... but remember that one will need its normal direction of travel reversed or they will pull in opposite directions !!!..

Offline Only Me

  • Western Destroyer
  • NGF Technician
  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23206
  • Posts: 5921
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Western Destroyer
    • Northants & Cambs Area Group of the NGS
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2014, 08:33:57 PM »
Only the parcels blue/grey farish versions were power twins



Offline sparky

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 755
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2014, 08:37:19 PM »
Yes I have got the parcels class 101 and forgot to reverse the direction in one chip...when power was applied it went no where quickly !




Offline REGP

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19246
  • Posts: 1219
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2014, 08:39:51 PM »
Thanks for the speedy responses guys, its much appreciated.
I now know what to do, just need to do it.
Ray
 :thankyousign:

Offline sparky

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 755
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2014, 08:42:36 PM »
PS...good luck getting the bodies off the 101...a right pain the  xxxxx

Offline REGP

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19246
  • Posts: 1219
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2014, 09:18:40 PM »

PROGRAMMING - Do I have to programme both chips in the motorised unit?

It's generally recommended, although I've never found it necessary to do so, I program the lights only chip in the non-mororised car

DCC Dave

Just a sudden thought when you program the chip in the trailer does the motorised unit have to be on the programming track as well?

Ray

Offline Only Me

  • Western Destroyer
  • NGF Technician
  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23206
  • Posts: 5921
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Western Destroyer
    • Northants & Cambs Area Group of the NGS
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2014, 09:23:20 PM »
Some programming devices need a resistance across a motor to programme a chip hence it is easier to do both chips one at a time in the motorised unit.



Offline EtchedPixels

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16353
  • 2mm Association Number: 4412
  • Posts: 8382
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Google+
    • Twitter
    • YouTube
    • Etched Pixels
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2014, 11:49:04 AM »
Never bothered with dual sound for a DMU as its short.

I do set the lights on the dummy to Fn 1 though so I can turn the lights off midtrain when running in pairs
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline REGP

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 19246
  • Posts: 1219
  • Country: england
  • Gender: Male
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2014, 04:06:06 PM »
I am afraid a bit more guidance is required folks.

Successfully programmed Lenz Silver Mini chip in Dapol HST motorised loco no problems.

Had to programme Bachmann EZ chip in loco as it wasn't detected  when in trailer.

The EZ chip has quite short pins and a thick blue heat shrink round the decoder, which Bachmann say should not be removed.

Getting the EZ chip to stay plugged into the trailers socket which very close to the top of the supporting board is proving to be a problem.

As its to be  fitted in the unpowered trailer is removing the heat shrink an option?

Apart from that or using a smaller and hopefully thinner chip (DZ1251N maybe) I am not sure how to tackle this.

Has anyone else had this problem or able to offer a potential solution?

Thanks

Ray

Offline EtchedPixels

  • Advertiser
  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • N Gauge Society Number: 16353
  • 2mm Association Number: 4412
  • Posts: 8382
  • Country: wales
  • Gender: Male
    • Ebay
    • Google+
    • Twitter
    • YouTube
    • Etched Pixels
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2014, 04:26:26 PM »
As its to be  fitted in the unpowered trailer is removing the heat shrink an option?

They get warm. Without the beatshrink and jammed into place it may damage the model. Better to pick up a cheap non-Bachmann decoder.
"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline Only Me

  • Western Destroyer
  • NGF Technician
  • Trade Count: (+17)
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • N Gauge Society Number: 23206
  • Posts: 5921
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Western Destroyer
    • Northants & Cambs Area Group of the NGS
    • Awards
Re: Guidance Requested when Chipping Multiple Units
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2014, 04:27:58 PM »
I would strongly recommend you do not use this type of chip in a Dapol loco as they get very hot and as they are larger than the DZ125IN they touch the roofs and can and do melt them...paul



 

Please Support Us!
April Goal: £60.00
Due Date: Apr 30
Total Receipts: £5.00
Below Goal: £55.00
Site Currency: GBP
 8%
April Donations


Advertise Here
anything
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal