A Question About Buying Kits

[Karhedron]

I have improvised in the past but a being able to get all the parts I need is definitley prefferable. A complete kit with everything supplied in one box is definitely a luxury. 

[RST]

Have scanned through some of the posts but for me:

• Kit means everything included
  Semi-kit means the intricate parts are there, substitute your own scratch built or common parts

...have to say though I bought a few "kit" or "railway mouldings" last 6 months and I compare them to the model boat scene -they are absolutely shocking in quality.  If this is acceptable in the model rail scene then it needs a shake-up.  This may not be representative of brand new offerings, which aren't really kits in my mind.

[EtchedPixels]

...have to say though I bought a few "kit" or "railway mouldings" last 6 months and I compare them to the model boat scene -they are absolutely shocking in quality.  If this is acceptable in the model rail scene then it needs a shake-up.  This may not be representative of brand new offerings, which aren't really kits in my mind.

There are a lot of very old tools and mouldings about. The costs and the tiny N gauge market (as well as the low prices people can afford) mean they are usually too expensive to replace. In addition just about everything in the tooling world departed to China which made the problem even worse. Even what remains is almost entirely oriented to 'how many thousand do you want, must be fully auto with ejector pins' and expensive high end tooling.

I don't know much about the model boat market, but from the prices I've seen there looks to be a lot more money and volume in it.

Ultimately you get what you (and everyone else) pays for. In N that ranges from
£500 for the masterworks of CJM down to cheap (and often old) white metal locomotive kits. I would definitely keep an eye on reviews and talk to other modellers - there are some quite dire white metal kits out there and equally some (sometimes very old) kits that are beautifully cast such as the old ABS models ones.

3D printing is beginning to change what is possible and commercially viable at N gauge volumes but there is a long way to go yet to solve the current cost problems with low volume plastic moulding and the like.

Alan

[RST]

^^ granted and accepted, but there are some VERY tired moulds out there, we know we're not in the majority.  But when I have to completely remove every detail in a kit and fabricate from scratch or parts, the N gauge world isn't that small.  You do yourself injustice by accepting.

[Karhedron]

You do yourself injustice by accepting.

In many cases there is no alternative. You can accept an old an tired moulding and try to make the best of it or you can scratch-build. At least an old kit is usually the right sort of shape, even if you do end up having to detail it.

Also most of these kits are very much the products of cottage industry. Refusing to buy them will not help spur the development of better kits. People like Alan experimenting with 3D printing probably represent the best hope for better kits but this technology is still in its early stages.

[ParkeNd]

Soft tools would meet the low demand volumes. Much quicker and significantly cheaper.

[red_death]

I don't think people realise just how small some of the demand is for N gauge!

Even soft tooling doesn't solve the issue, we're not talking about a 1000 sales of an item, in some cases you won't even be talking about 100! That isn't the case for everything, but it is the case for many things.

Every time the NGS invests in tooling (either for kit or commissioning a RTR model) we have to face these realities - there are some things that just will not sell sufficient volume to justify tooling and injection moulding. Some more obscure things are barely worth even making a master and casting! If someone has gone to the effort and cost of injection moulding something then they already have a degree of confidence/knowledge that their product is going to sell in significant volumes compared to an etch or casting.

Cheers, Mike

(NGS Product Development Officer)

[CarriageShed]

In fact I'd recommend the Parkwood class 15/16/10800 as an excellent starter for kit locomotives as well. In fact 10800 is a great starter as it fits onto the 20 chassis *and* it's black, with black bits so the only bit of painting beyond a black spraycan is the buffer beam! Modelmaster do the needed numbers for it as well.

And that's exectly what I'll be doing, once I get the body. Apart from a 7 plank wagon it'll be my first kit.

I think the biggest problem area for newbies is working out what's needed. You end up buying these paints but then realise that you also need that paint, those brushes and matt varnish, but then you need gloss varnish for the transfers (and don't get me started on working out which transfers). You work out that you need handrails and vacuum pipes, but then also that a coupling hook could fit, and that you need Klear to represent windows. And that's just skimming the surface.

I'm definitely not happy with RTR stock alone. I want the uniqueness of kits and the chance to model exactly what my layout needs, but working out what's required from a newbie's perspective is a bit of a battle, so I can see why many may take a look and baulk at the level of effort required.

[RST]

Quote from: RST on Yesterday at 22:46:09
You do yourself injustice by accepting.
In many cases there is no alternative. You can accept an old an tired moulding and try to make the best of it or you can scratch-build. At least an old kit is usually the right sort of shape, even if you do end up having to detail it.

...good grief you miss my point entirely.

[EtchedPixels]

The N gauge world isn't that small.  You do yourself injustice by accepting.

The N gauge kit world is pretty small, collectors don't generally build kits (although some collect old ones), most modellers are pure RTR - or venture out no further than things like Metcalfe card kits.

If you think you can do better then go for it. Several people on this forum and rmweb have done exactly that and released models like the Class 128 DPU.

Alan

[RST]

OK, so on my Knightwing DBT:

I can accept rough castings, we all accept squadron putty hides lots of sins.  We do not expect the chassis to be be wider one end and taller at the other though nor can I can accept representations of fittings be just blobs (If the blobs were the same each end and side to side then maybe) but the sales photo shows perfect results.  Things like lamp irons, brake fittings etc if they can't be moulded crisp as in the photos then just remove from the mould as they're useless if mal-formed and unfillable.

Nothing wrong with kit bashing but disappointing when you almost have to start from scratch.  Some moulds are old and tired yet still get punted on as new in the pics.  I know the expense of making parts and maintaining moulds, but some of them need down-grading rather than punting off as good ones.

It's a small market, but we're not cheapskates.  At very least check the mouldings first before they go in the bag.

Imagine you bought a moulding from NGF

[EtchedPixels]

Well it clearly shouldn't have gotten out if it was warped but have you checked with Knightwing as it sounds like a dud casting. I can confirm the one I got a few years back looked like the photo.

If not then I guess irs a nice 3d print project to use a couple of Dapol Gresley bogies   

Alan