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Author Topic: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane  (Read 71197 times)

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Offline daveg

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2014, 10:22:51 AM »
I have zero knowledge on the 3D processes but the drawings look amazing.

One of these would go down a treat but obviously cost must come into it.

I shall watch the developments with great interest.

Dave G

Offline AndyGif

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2014, 10:23:54 AM »
I wonder if it would be possible to have the sides, ends and top made in FUD and then attached to an inner core chassis of a more cheaper material.
Though in doing this we would be opening up the chance that distortion of flat parts occurs.


Offline RussellH

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2014, 11:29:29 AM »
Hi Guys

All useful replies - thanks.

As its designed for FUD it not directly compatible with FD. FD would take some of the price (~25%?) off the but still no where near SLS. Would require going right back through the whole design and increasing thickness to make it work in FD with some detail loss. Thinking about workload vs savings vs yet another option to deal with - I dont think its worth while.

Etch - The vast majority dont like etch (not that many actually like kits at all) so we are trying to keep this as easy as possible to build to make it suitable for as many as possible. Look how easy the MPV is and how many have we sold - barely worth the time and effort involved. Depending on the combination of etch and print it could be a kept reasonable size but this is heading towards a worsley works style kit. If you go that way it could be astonishing (an etched underframe with stick on detail, solder the parkside bearings to a brass underframe etc) but much as I can build things like this it excludes so many thats not what we want to do. Keep it Simple - effective - affordable.

Thinking about a split chassis - I would hope shapeways might be able to print something thats only 55 mm long actually straight but somehow I dont feel that lucky considering how many MPV chassis I'v had to straighten. If its big lumps theres a better chance its straight. Once the prototype in SLS is finished and has been debugged by sufficient people We'll make the final design work in FUD.

My personal fav is a mix of SLS and FUD  - the mix is depending on your personal choice.

Meanwhile - PLEASE have a long detailed look at all the pics and get any problems aired now - not later.

Regards
Russ
Repairs - not everything has to be sent away - you can fix most thing's yourself. Ask and help will be provided.

Waiting for the RTR version? - why not try a kit?

My layout, Bridgebury Gate now has its own website...
www.bridgeburygate.com

and the 3DR shop where you'll also find the NGF MPV, assorted cabs etc...
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/3dr_designs_for_n_gauge

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2014, 10:35:57 PM »
My experience with FUD is that long thin objects don't come out flat but that if you have removable structure to support them then the results are a lot more reliable. Ditto for avoiding inward bowing on sides of things like railcar shells.

You can also get wheels into a lot of FUD chassis by heating them to about 60C where they begin to go rather flexible, fitting the bearings and axles and then letting it cool back down.

If you go a bit above that (use a bowl, add hot water and use a food thermometer then put the model in) you can even "edit" models, doing things like adding curves to straight 3D printed FUD walls!


"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline RussellH

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2014, 11:23:50 PM »
Hi EP,

Yep - anything flat might not be once printed in FUD. Support structure idea noted for when we work on the FUD chassis version of the Cowans.

Heating and bending etc - presume this has to be done before painting?

As were using water that hot might I recommend nitrile marigolds with double cotton liners for better heat protection.

Regards
Russ

Repairs - not everything has to be sent away - you can fix most thing's yourself. Ask and help will be provided.

Waiting for the RTR version? - why not try a kit?

My layout, Bridgebury Gate now has its own website...
www.bridgeburygate.com

and the 3DR shop where you'll also find the NGF MPV, assorted cabs etc...
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/3dr_designs_for_n_gauge

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2014, 10:28:12 AM »
I've always done the heating/bending before painting. I don't see why it wouldn't work (within limits) after.

"Knowledge has no value or use for the solitary owner: to be enjoyed it must be communicated" -- Charles Pratt, 1st Earl Camden

Offline RussellH

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2014, 03:41:48 PM »
Hi Guys

Can you spare a moment to have a look at the pic in this link to check the wheel sizes against each other?

http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/var/albums/Cowans-Sheldon/ADRC96703-Album/96703%2C%20Waiting%20to%20go%20into%20Derby%20Works%20for%20conversion%20to%20diesel%2C%20Dec%201976%20-%20John%20Woolley.jpg?m=1304409432

It looks to me like the main crane section has smaller wheels (5.1mm equivalent) and the relieving bogies have bigger wheels (6.2mm equivalent). Cant make my mind up about the match truck wheel sizes but would be helpful if they were of the bigger (6.2mm variety). Not a lot of difference our end (0.5mm height) but that extra 0.5mm makes it all line up nicely.

Regards
Russ
Repairs - not everything has to be sent away - you can fix most thing's yourself. Ask and help will be provided.

Waiting for the RTR version? - why not try a kit?

My layout, Bridgebury Gate now has its own website...
www.bridgeburygate.com

and the 3DR shop where you'll also find the NGF MPV, assorted cabs etc...
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/3dr_designs_for_n_gauge

Offline Only Me

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2014, 04:00:30 PM »
They definitely look lower on the left wagon.... If I really zoom in, the bogies look the same on the crane body and either end, or is it just the final bogey on either end to have a smaller wheel?



Offline Wild Boar Fell

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2014, 04:13:09 PM »
Having just checked "Railway Breakdown Cranes Volume 2" The diagrams show all wheels being 3 foot 1 inch diameter on the prototype.
Hope this is of use.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 04:54:25 PM by Wild Boar Fell, Reason: Incorrect choice of words (Being a bit thick) »

Offline EtchedPixels

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2014, 04:15:23 PM »
The axle box centres appear to be the same height above the rail looking at the back part of the crane. That to me says the wheels are the same size as the track is flat. The front one is harder to check as the track curves.

If you project verticals from where the sides of the wheels would fall and compare them to the distance between two chairs as near as the wheel as possible it also suggests to me they are the same or at least very close.

You probably want to find someone with a copy of
http://www.noodlebooks.co.uk/product/view/2098

Alan
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Offline talisman56

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2014, 04:50:59 PM »
Having just checked "Railway Breakdown Cranes Volume 2" The diagrams show all axles being 3 foot 1 inch diameter on the prototype.
Hope this is of use.

Axles  :goggleeyes: or wheels  :hmmm: ?
My inspiration - never let a setback get you down...

My layout thread - Hambleside East: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=18364.0
My workbench thread: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19037

Offline RussellH

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #86 on: February 04, 2014, 04:58:42 PM »
Hi Guys

Totally excellent stuff - big thanks all round!

I had all 5.1mm in there and it looked a tad loooow. Spotted that photo and thought the relieving  bogies had bigger wheels so bashed a set of 6.2 into the relieving bogie and match wagon. Looked better but messed up the alignment of the coupling to the main body. Now to find they are all 3'1" = 6.35 nearest is the 6.2mm is good news! Will bash a set of those in the main body later.

Regards
Russ
Repairs - not everything has to be sent away - you can fix most thing's yourself. Ask and help will be provided.

Waiting for the RTR version? - why not try a kit?

My layout, Bridgebury Gate now has its own website...
www.bridgeburygate.com

and the 3DR shop where you'll also find the NGF MPV, assorted cabs etc...
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/3dr_designs_for_n_gauge

Offline Shaun Harvey

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #87 on: February 08, 2014, 10:56:03 PM »
Loving the progress on the crane project. I never thought it would look so good and can't wait to hear what the final price will be. I might have to save up. As I went on so much about it being a project for you guys I better get one at some point in the future to go with my breakdown coaches. Keep up the good work.

Shaun

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Offline bridgiesimon

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #88 on: February 10, 2014, 08:22:51 PM »
For all you guys looking forward to this, I can upset you all by telling you I got my hands on the first set (without jib and cab) last night, cheers Russell.

The print is in SLS but that is NOT noticeable at all and looking most excellent. It is fully fitted with wheels etc and we gave it a running session around our layout as Russel's layout is in store at the mo. It performed faultlessly whether being hauled at various speeds through pointwork as well as being pushed with the loco at the back around curves which are around 10 inch radius. It looks amazing and I am looking forward to getting a full set when available!!!

I took a few videos of it on my phone which I have now left at work so will try and upload them onto here somehow tomorrow.

best wishes
Simon

Offline RussellH

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Re: NGF/3DR Cowans Sheldon Crane
« Reply #89 on: February 22, 2014, 11:15:47 AM »
Hi Guys

Hope those of you who went to Riddlestown meet all saw the Cowans chassis?? Hope they ran ok. Feedback appreciated...

Meanwhile - Prices - got a reasonable idea now as the cab and jib are done (and Iv got them here in SLS - more on that once Iv put some paint on them)

So for just the printed parts (you'll need to add wheels, bearings, couplings, springs, paint, transfers etc)

SLS - 46.50
FUD - 135 (and this still needs to be sorted to allow for wheel fitting)

Etch is in progress so we'll know the price of this soon.

Regards
Russ
Repairs - not everything has to be sent away - you can fix most thing's yourself. Ask and help will be provided.

Waiting for the RTR version? - why not try a kit?

My layout, Bridgebury Gate now has its own website...
www.bridgeburygate.com

and the 3DR shop where you'll also find the NGF MPV, assorted cabs etc...
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/3dr_designs_for_n_gauge

 

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