Grim reality starting to bite the N Gauge market?

[joe cassidy]

or had a vast garden where you could model a main line with live steam pacifics ?

Ah - now there ya got me     Oh, the joys of having a fleet of garden LNER Pacifics !!!     If it weren't for winter, why bother with anything else ?  (other steam fans, please insert your preferred Company if it's not LNER  )

Mike
[/quote]

If I was a millionaire living in Shropshire with the east coast main line in my garden I might still have an N gauge layout in my study/library for the winter months.

I've heard that Shropshire is the coldest place in England in winter ?

Best regards,


Joe

[MikeDunn]

If I was a millionaire living in Shropshire with the east coast main line in my garden I might still have an N gauge layout in my study/library for the winter months.

Yeah ... you need something to keep playing with   Mind ... the winter could also be for deep maintenance of the Pacifics !

I've heard that Shropshire is the coldest place in England in winter ?

Feels it sometimes, up this hill !!!  Makes me glad I'm on the southern slopes - the northern ones get really hit hard !  Just one of the joys of living in the sticks 

But I think Cumbria or Northumberland are likely colder, being further north.

[Papyrus]

Having had a break from railway modelling for a good few years, I was a bit dismayed at first by the prices of locos and stock these days, but I've been doing a bit of research. When I started in N gauge in the 1980s, you could buy something like a Farish Jinty for a bit under £20, or about the price of a tankful of petrol. I've fished out a RM from 1998 where a Jinty is advertised for £35, perhaps a bit more than a tank of petrol in those days. A current RM has a price of £60 for a Jinty in Jan 2014 ......... about the price of a tank of petrol! Considering the way prices of other commodities fluctuate, I think N gauge has stayed remarkably stable over the years.

(Incidentally, I think simonprelude's memory is playing him tricks - A Minitrix loco wouldn't have been anywhere near £100 in the early 80s. A 9F is advertised for that price in the 1998 RM.)

At the end of the day, we buy what we can afford and the manufacturers have to price their products accordingly.

Chris

[Adam1701D]

I tend to wait until the big box-shifters clear out old stock...still very smug about my £40.00 Class 86.

At least we haven't got to the Hornby coach level with some of their recent LNER suburbans going for around £40.00 a pop.

[EtchedPixels]

Likewise Adam, I've basically given up buying stuff when it first comes out. If the dealers and vendor want to have some cozy deal where the prices are not far below RRP for a while then I'll just wait, and quite possibly forget and never buy the product.

I think my entire spend on new RTR this year has been the lowest for many years despite somehow acquiring a blue pullman.

I did buy another 86. I figure the Dapol ones are going to eventually need spares and that was a good price for a full set of spare parts

[ParkeNd]

There are probably a lot of places that work can be moved to before that happens though.

Not really. China right now is a special case. They have enormous experience in the field, specialist tooling expertise, and considerable efficiencies through scale. It's also a country which has relatively good infrastructure.

Setting all that up somewhere else is hard. Most of the places you could set it up are not politically stable (in areas your expensive factory may be  seized, turned into a crater or other things of that nature) and/or have endemic corruption problems way beyond those China has.

It also doesn't fix your transport costs (which are soaring) and the problems caused by long turnarounds, lack of control, and of language and culture.

Also you don't bring it back "as is", you look to bring it back smarter and more mechanised with less staff making more products with better machinery.

Alan

Turkey, Taiwan, India, Mexico, Poland, Malta, Tunisia, Southern Spain, Bulgaria, -------------

[OwL]

As the Chinese become more affluent and demand more wages, you will see production move to India, then somewhere else after.......
Eventually things will go full circle and i'm sure manufacturing of model railways will return to the UK.

Already happening - Hornby have moved their Humbrol paint range back to being made in UK and it's reported their Airfix aircraft kit range is heading back to the UK too.

Cheers,
Alan

Good

[Pengi]

Likewise Adam, I've basically given up buying stuff when it first comes out. If the dealers and vendor want to have some cozy deal where the prices are not far below RRP for a while then I'll just wait, and quite possibly forget and never buy the product.

. . .

Same for me too

[EtchedPixels]

Taiwan has a minimum hourly wage of $3.50 so way above the current Chinese option, Turkey is about $500/month (and not exactly politicially stable) minimum wage - you are looking at places like Bangladesh.

Alan

[silly moo]

This is a very interesting topic.

I've taken a very big breath and ordered a blue Tornado, which will be my main purchase for the year. When prices go up and when I have limited funds, I buy less and think very carefully about each loco purchase. I don't think this is a bad thing, as I appreciate the locos more.

I expect prices to rise and that I will have to spend wisely in future but I won't give up the hobby, I will just be buying fewer new locos.

Having said all that I find it hard to resist a secondhand bargain often with dire consequences   

[pape_timmo]

The last couple of weeks I've been looking through my older models and I've realised just how much 80s/90s era stock I have, and how much up to date stuff too.

I've been really lucky in that I've been able to buy things recently, not necessarily immediately, but within a couple of months.

But I do have bills to pay, and other expenses, and after those are paid, then models can be bought.

I think for most people, save up if you see something you want. One less Costa or Starbucks, or whatever your other pleasures are, cigarettes, beer, whatever.

You wouldn't expect to earn minimum wage and go buy a new car every 3 years, you'd have to save a long time, or buy second (third, fourth, fifth) hand.

Hobbies are expensive and are a luxury, and the priority is food on the table and a roof over your head. After that, enjoy yourself.

Just my thoughts. Cheers, Timmo

[Mr Sprue]

As the Chinese become more affluent and demand more wages, you will see production move to India, then somewhere else after.......
Eventually things will go full circle and i'm sure manufacturing of model railways will return to the UK.

Already happening - Hornby have moved their Humbrol paint range back to being made in UK and it's reported their Airfix aircraft kit range is heading back to the UK too.

Cheers,
Alan

Good

For what its worth, when I had lengthy chat with Joel at TINGS about Dapols manufacturing cost's, he mentioned that plans were being made to bring some production back in house as some things would cheaper to produce here.

Go's to show if UK company's are stroking chins over Chinese labour prices, that can only be good for our economy if the work returns to our shores.

[Newportnobby]

As someone who retired early and must live off my savings for the next 5 years, the cost of new locos is becoming quite prohibitive for me, especially as I have so many pre-orders
However, I am always concerned about missing out on something that fits my era/location if I don't pre-order in case it never becomes available again
Although I have never been a devotee of Rule 1, the sheer fact is I couldn't afford to go down that track( ) now, although I did buy a Blue Pullman before I retired (sorry to mention that Bealman)
For the same reasons I cannot afford DCC due to the cost of chipping my fleet so will have to remain a DC old fart.
I've even got to the state where I cast my eyes around the house to see what I don't use and ponder selling it (just as well I'm not married any more )

[silly moo]

I also pre order so as not to miss out on the newer locos. Costs will also see me remaining DC old fart as well, quite a few of my locos are not worth converting to DCC.

What I am doing at present is what a friend calls 'streamlining my collection' I will be sitting at a collector's fair this weekend with a fair amount of old 00 stock to sell with the hope of boosting the model railway piggy bank.

If I'm lucky I will raise enough to fund the Tornado. 

With quite a few of us saving up and waiting patiently for locos, it becomes very frustrating when quality is not up to scratch but that's been discussed many times before.

What I don't agree with is the idea that returns and repairs are pushing up costs and we should attempt to repair faulty locos. I think it is more a case of manufacturers using their customers as quality controllers. They've probably done the maths and it works out cheaper to use us for quality control.

[pape_timmo]

I do agree on the quality control side, no we should not be the manufacturers QC department. Whatever method you have of funding your hobby, you should expect a quality product that works straight out of the box, and doesn't break after two minutes use.

How many cars would Ford sell if every one was sent back after 2 hours cos bits dropped off, or the engine smoked and seized up?

Dave Jones has obviously listened to this point from modellers, and it's about time other manufacturers did too.

Cheers, Timmo