Should I buy a Class 25 ?

[Chris in Prague]

Quite simply because the OP asked for our opinion - and the thread is titled "should I buy a class 25?".

H.
[/quote]

Ah, but that was not my answer: my answer was that the decision should not be made because it does not have the level of detail that can only be appreciated if held up to a 'rivet counter's' eye. My apologies if 'rivet counter' seems derogatory. My point was that if the current model looks like a Class 25 (which it does) and gives pleasure it should, IMHO, be bought and enjoyed, today. Yes, there may well be a higher spec/quality Class 25 coming but when? and at what price? Fine details really can only be appreciated at very close distances, hence my comments about 00 and 0 gauge. If someone wants to pay the extra and admire the model close up, fine. I'd rather be running trains that look right at a normal viewing distance and, judging by the pictures of his excellent layout, that is what the original poster does.

[ParkeNd]

If this was a photography forum and locos were expensive like camera lenses or camera bodies then the wait until you have a bit more money or wait until something else comes out arguments have a place. There is always a £250, £475, and £800 version of a spec of lens and if you spend your £250 you will inevitably find it's limitations and then the £475 version you really needed has cost you £725 less a paltry trade in allowance.

But model rail is much less expensive and thus £45 new bargains are more about opportunity than anything else IMHO. Once they are all sold then the opportunity is gone. The price of ultimately having three Class 25s is very low taken over say a couple of years and given that the £45 Class 25 is under half price and it runs very well then the opportunity afforded by its low price outweighs the possible sense of shame you may experience if a more knowledgeable person finds out you are running a loco which has oversize grungeing rods or the window glazing isn't quite right.

BR have more than one of each type of loco on their layout and once the £45 ones have gone they are gone.

[Chris in Prague]

Exactly, ParkeNd.

To me they look like Class 25s and I remember the real things from my trainspotting days in the Midlands.

BTW, Hattons have 371-079
Graham Farish
Class 25/3 diesel D7638 in BR two-tone green
N Gauge
£45 BARGAIN List price: £94.05
More than 10 in stock

IMHO, the two-tone livery and 'cleaned up' bodysides of the Class 25/3 variant looks very nice. If I could justify running one, I'd buy one but my modelling period ends at 1969 so I cannot. But that's my decision. Others can invoke 'Rule One'! 8-)

[H]

My point was that if the current model looks like a Class 25 (which it does)

Sorry, but IMO it doesn't look very much like a real class 25 at all. And I guess that I'm not the only one who thinks that; Truffles commented "maybe if I squinted and stood on my head, then it just might look like something that resembles a 25" and EP suggested "Detailing the Farish 25 is at a certain level "turd polishing" - no matter how much you polish at the end of the day its still s...".

It's not just a matter of fine details but the overall shape and proportions which is obvious even at distance. Plus, of course, the Bachmann version will also have modern specification improvements like being DCC ready, working directional lighting, NEM coupler pockets, etc., as well as hopefully being more accurate and having finer details. But if you think the Poole version looks like one then so be it. I won't loose any sleep and it won't convince me that it does or to recommend that people buy it.

H

[Truffles]

This is all getting a little ridiculous and to label anyone a 'rivet counter' for pointing out that the current 25 is terrible is laughable. It is not a case of a bit of flush glazing or moulded detail, it is EVERYTHING and starts with the fundamental shape of the thing. 

The original question, as H pointed out, was 'Should I buy a Class 25', well quite frankly I would not buy one for £5 let alone £45 particularly when you can get much better models for similar prices in various sales such as 03,04,08,37,47 etc.

To paraphrase a line from one of the great classical songs of the 20th century:

'it's a 25, Jim, but not as we know it'   

[ParkeNd]

Sorry H but waiting until GKW for the Dapol will lose the OP the opportunity of a bargain. And if he does wait for the Dapol he will by then  almost surely know that a Farish with even finer detail and DCC2 is imminent if he only waits another 12 months and pays £145.

[H]

will lose the OP the opportunity of a bargain. And if he does wait for the Dapol he will by then  almost surely know that a Farish with even finer detail and DCC2 is imminent if he only waits another 12 months and pays £145.

Erm, but the question was not 'is it a bargain at £45?' - and IMO it is most certainly not. So what matters if he misses that opportunity? There are plenty of other better bargain buys as Truffles pointed out.

And, it's not a matter of waiting for Dapol - the new 'blue riband' quality class 25 is a Farish model by Bachmann. Pictures of the EP model have already be posted on their website. It's been announced and in the pipeline, unlike your fantasy DDC2 version with a made up price.

H.

[Chris in Prague]

It's all down to opportunity cost: paying £45 and enjoying a model which while not perfect does recognisably look like a Class 25, particularly from a distance, or waiting for a much more expensive more accurate one sometime in the future. And THAT is an individual judgement call.

[Truffles]

It's all down to opportunity cost: paying £45 and enjoying a model which while not perfect does recognisably look like a Class 25, particularly from a distance, or waiting for a much more expensive more accurate one sometime in the future. And THAT is an individual judgement call.

Why do you assume that the OP would 'enjoy' the model, it is just as feasible to 'assume' that he would get it home and be gutted with it's comical looks and relegate it to the inside of a depot.

[H]

It's all down to opportunity cost: paying £45 and enjoying a model which while not perfect does recognisably look like a Class 25, particularly from a distance, or waiting for a much more expensive more accurate one sometime in the future. And THAT is an individual judgement call.

It is certainly the OP's final decision on what he spends the money on, but you've rather skewed the two options. IMO they are either waste money on a poor current model that is not representative of the real prototype or put the money toward a better value, better specified, finer and more accurate one that is currently being developed.

H.

[ParkeNd]

It's all down to opportunity cost: paying £45 and enjoying a model which while not perfect does recognisably look like a Class 25, particularly from a distance, or waiting for a much more expensive more accurate one sometime in the future. And THAT is an individual judgement call.

This is very true.

One of the disadvantages of incredible detail on newer models is fragility. The idea of say a long loco with detail as fine as the new 57xx is daunting for fat fingers. The plain sided Class 25/3 is distinctly robust looking much like the two comparatively unadorned Class 47s on current bargain prices.

Purity will require tweezers soon.

[H]

One of the disadvantages of incredible detail on newer models is fragility. The idea of say a long loco with detail as fine as the new 57xx is daunting for fat fingers. The plain sided Class 25/3 is distinctly robust looking much like the two comparatively unadorned Class 47s on current bargain prices.

Purity will require tweezers soon.

Maybe, but it is a different issue and probably worthy of a separate thread to discuss.

Sure fine details can be fragile, but we are talking about a modelling hobby where handling care is often essential. In general scale models are not playthings for kids that can stand being roughly handled or thrown around. If that is the requirement then perhaps N gauge isn't the best option.

Nonetheless, in general, it's not difficult to take appropriate care, after all one would if collecting valuable and fragile glass and china figurines. Once they are on the track there is no need to grab and maul the stock but it can be helpful to be able to undertake a bit of repair modelling in the event of accidental damage and, yep, that does often require the use of tweezers.

I think I'd rather accept and accommodate the fragility of finer models rather than demand chunky robust toys.

H.

[1936ace]

Wow, I'm glad I stumbled across this thread. I was going to buy one for zac due to the price as it said class 25, having never seen one I thought it must be a model of one.
So what does one look like if the current one is not
Bart

[Chris in Prague]

I was going to buy one for zac due to the price as it said class 25, having never seen one I thought it must be a model of one.
So what does one look like if the current one is not
Bart

You can pay £45 for a model which while not perfect does recognisably look like a Class 25, particularly from a distance. IMHO the front windows are the most noticeable difference from the prototype, or you could choose to buy a more recent, more expensive model of something else which is more accurate.

[Newportnobby]

I feel quite sorry for Port Perran now - he's probably cowering in a bunker somewhere