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Author Topic: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V  (Read 3138 times)

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Online weave

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SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« on: August 22, 2013, 12:46:48 AM »
Hi all,

Have been picking up SNCF Corail coaches on ebay and just wondered what anyone thinks are the best for the 80's/90's. Have got Roco, Fleischmann, Piko and Minitrix. They are all very different (the blue colour and also sort of scale wise) and I think they would look odd together.

Maybe I should concentrate on one brand?

This photo is too modern for me but makes me smile as taken in Lourdes (not by me!) but was there with my dad (irish catholic) and can just imagine him trying to put the decals on like that after the 'proper' HOLY WATER!

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/car/Corail/Corail_plus/bar2_13mai07.jpg

Cheers weave



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Re: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 07:03:24 AM »
I have run Arnold (Vtu opens and VSE compartments) in the same train as Piko day coaches (Vu compartments) in Corail + livery without them looking out of place. I have run night trains from my own conversion kits alongside Arnold TEN liveried sleeping cars, including ambulance coaches carrying the blue/white (actually pale grey).

The Piko coaches have the windows set slightly too low in the sides which has meant a bit of a compromise in all the liveries where there is a colour break just below window level. But it is not too noticeable in a moving train.

I am not sure what you mean by the blue livery. As far as I know only Arnold and Piko have made TER liveried coaches in metallic grey with a blue stripe, and these seem to match OK. The real ones vary a lot in colour anyway.

The various interpretations of the classic dark grey over light grey Corail livery with orange doors are all a bit different but less shocking if you insert other liveries in the train such as Corail+ and the green/grey 160 livery which was still prevalent in the 80s and 90s. I have some pictures of a regular train at Lyon with seven different SNCF livery and logo combinations in it.

I don't think there are any Fleischmann Corails, except reissues of the Roco VSE Eurofimas.

I have chosen a Mercedes coach in Corail livery as my avatar - Cahors 1983.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 07:25:25 AM by woodbury22uk »
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Re: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 07:56:20 AM »
Hi,

Didn't explain myself very well. Ignorance and red wine! They are mostly Eurofima coaches in 'corail' livery. They are blue and white horizontally with orange doors. The Arnold and Roco ones seem bigger than the Fleischmann and the blues are different. Just wondered what was more prototypical.

The Piko ones are proper corail coaches (epoch IV). Would these have run together with the Eurofima ones in the 80's?

Have seen spanish eurofima and regular coaches in rakes.

Thanks weave


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Re: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 10:12:10 AM »
Hi,

Didn't explain myself very well. Ignorance and red wine! They are mostly Eurofima coaches in 'corail' livery. They are blue and white horizontally with orange doors. The Arnold and Roco ones seem bigger than the Fleischmann and the blues are different. Just wondered what was more prototypical.

The Piko ones are proper corail coaches (epoch IV). Would these have run together with the Eurofima ones in the 80's?

Have seen spanish eurofima and regular coaches in rakes.

Thanks weave

Ah now I understand Weave. The original Corail livery was dark grey window band and skirt, and light grey bands above and below the windows with orange doors. So the blue you describe on a VSE is someone's interpretation of the dark grey! The only predominantly blue liveries are the original couchettes, some Téoz coaches, and some couchettes in Lunéa livery. In my opinion the Roco is the best interpretation size wise. I do not recall a genuine Fleischmann one in Corail livery except the recent re-issue of some in sets using the Roco moulds.

The Piko Vtu open coaches (doors inset from the ends) would have run with Piko Vu compartment coaches (folding doors at the ends), and the occasional Eurofima (sliding plug doors at the ends). However the Eurofimas were gradually allocated away from mainline services in the 1980s and used for specials and pilgrimage trains, often with couchettes, ambulance coaches, and foreign administration coaches. The photo you referenced in your first post was probably a pilgrimage train.

Corail coaches are a complicated subject. When I produced the replacement brass sides as conversion kits for the Roco Eurofimas I made 19 different variants of the Vu compartment coaches, and still did not include the 5 different driving trailers, the Téoz conversions or the recent conversions to second class coaches to include wheelchair compartments. The open Vtu coaches come in fewer variations - one main bodyshell with folding doors or sliding plug doors, and the slightly different bar car with folding doors.
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Re: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2013, 07:45:02 AM »
Hi Weave,

I think Woodbury has given an excellent answer in terms of the looks of the coaches. One thing I would say is that I found that the different brands of coaches sometimes had issues when they were coupled together and going around bends or up and down gradients. I found that the Arnold Corail carriages to be especially problematic in causing uncoupling and derailments. I also had an issue with some of the Ibetren carriages but generally found that if you had a single brand in a rake then it was ok. I now have mostly Piko carriages and have found them to be pretty good but for some reason they sometimes get pulled off the track when going around corners (that are actually quite reasonable in the radius).


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Re: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2013, 08:24:35 AM »
Thanks guys,

I have a much better understanding now. I know the couchettes are medium blue and white with the white doors. Want the Piko ones but they are SO expensive! However, as woodbury said, the different manufacturers have interpreted colours differently.

Can't get to them all at the moment to compare as packed away for in- law visit but the Arnold one is definitely a dark blue with light grey, unless I'm going colour blind.

Forgot I've got 2 Ibertren ones as well! Will have to get them all out, put side by side and decide where to go from there.

With regard to Stephen's comment about Piko coaches coming off the rails. Have had the same problem. Haven't run them for a while as building a new layout (track nearly finished) but on the old loft layout they would be fine and then suddenly fly off the rails on a corner at not great speed and not a tight radius. Track wasn't ballasted.  They seem a lot lighter than others so maybe that's the problem.

Thanks again, weave

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Re: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 09:40:14 AM »
Regarding unusual derailments I put this down to the close couplers misbehaving. Spring tensions vary even within one make and the slightest high spot on the moving plastic parts can stop them moving on or off centre 100% of the time. A touch of graphite on the movng edges can cure this by providing some lubrication. I have used the sharp point of an old HB pencil rubbed over the moving edges.
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Re: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2013, 10:10:10 AM »
Wide selection of modern and older Corail colour schemes in this thread.

http://www.trainsfrancais.com/forum/des-corail-en-couleurs-t37174.html

Just to help with future confusion, I think there are at least 6 variations in the layout, colours, and colour borders on the newest livery. Even the layout of the graduated colouring on the doors varies between coaches!

Even the couchettes are losing their blue to become black and white.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2013, 10:13:15 AM by woodbury22uk »
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Re: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2013, 12:45:16 AM »
.

For pictures, there is also Railfaneurope. Look for 'car' => Corail in the French picture section
The Railfaneurope.net Picture Gallery
Directory: /pix/fr/car/Corail

Then there's the old favourite MLG Trafic for livery variations

http://www.mlgtraffic.net/France_E.htm


Whenever I am asked about SNCF Corail coaches in N gauge I always recommend people not to use any of the Eurofima versions! They are not 'true' SNCF corail coaches, but Eurofima (Voitures Standards Europeens - VSE). Personally I have been pretty fed up over the years that so many models of the Eurofima in Corail livery were produced - as it means less experienced modellers end up with the least 'genuine' stock available - a bit like the false SNCF Fleischmann UICs in SNCF livery that seem to get everywhere!

I agree with Mike, the Roco Eurofimas always look the best. The Ibertren versions are pretty rudimentary.

I try not to mix my corail stock at all, but most of mine are the Lima/Arnold design of all eras, including still the ones I purchased when the Lima Coaches first came out in the early 80s.


Having said all that, here is my picture of a VSE in a Avallon - Paris train leaving Vermenton in 2004.








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Re: SNCF Corail coaches epoch IV/V
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2019, 10:40:33 AM »
For anyone wanting to know more about the Corail fleet "Le Train" has just published its 3rd volume of its 4 part work which covers the history and development of the fleet:-

Volume 1 - Vtu 75/78/80, Vu75/78, MC76 baggage cars, So ambulances
Volume 2 - Eurofimas, Vtu82/84, Vu80/83/86, Corail+,Toz, foreign versions
Volume 3 - Night coaches, TER
and due in 2020
Volume 4 - Intercits, specials, service stock, rsum of 45 years of the Corails

The 3 volumes published so far are available from Le Train online. There are over 600 good quality photographs almost all in colour, and covering internal and external views, coaches in trains and not, supported by dimensioned drawings of most types with detailed internal layouts as well.

http://www.letrain.com/component/virtuemart/le-train/archives/les-archives-matriel-remorqu

Alongside La Vie du Rail's "Encyclopdie des voitures SNCF" ("Encyclopedia of SNCF passenger coaches") and their two editions of "Le matriel remorqu voyageurs de la SNCF" ("SNCF hauled passenger rolling stock") an almost complete picture is available of the development, history and evolution of the Corail fleet.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 10:43:28 AM by woodbury22uk, Reason: Corrected link »
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