frog inserts (to stop wheel drop)

[bluedepot]

hi everyone

does anyone make and sell frog inserts?

if no then why not?  seems like a simple and a good idea to me.

vga vans and pacers look completely ridiculous going over points because they drop down so much in the frog gap.  i have been making my own inserts with 0.4mm plasticard.  it is very tedious to cut out such tiny inserts and then superglue them in the points - although it does decrease the amount of frog drop quite substantially so it was the only option really - i felt anyway.

some ready made / exact size inserts would be much easier!  (or peco just make new points for the new wheels with smaller flanges, or supply optional inserts with the points).

i have pacer proofed one running line but pacer proofing the whole layout is going to be very annoying. I'm not great at cutting out very tiny pieces!

anyway if anyone has the technical abilities and equipment to easily produce some frog inserts for me please let me know!  i think quite a few people would buy them - anyone with a pacer for a start!

cheers


tim


ps. this rant was enduced by just running a new chocolate and cream skipper / pacer... but nothing i haven't thought or mentioned on here before!

[ntpntpntp]

Typical Peco code 80 and code 55 are designed to accommodate a full range of flange depth going back to models dating from the 60s and 70s.  As a consequence they are a compromise and some modern shallow flanges don't ride on the bottom of the frog flangeway, you sometimes see wagons dip as they run through. Of course they shouldn't need to ride the bottom of the frog, this is only because of the unrealistic clearances and frog angles used with our models.  You'll find brands that manufacture both rolling stock and a track system tend to cope best as  the flangeways are designed to suit the wheels being used.

I've noticed that more recent Peco code 55 pointwork has shallower flangeways than older production, to the extent that I've actually gone the opposite way to you and gouged out some of mine so that my older stock runs through better without wheels being lifted and losing power. I found it annoying that Peco changed the design!! I just shows we have different requirements.

You can buy "Microstrip" (by Slaters, there are probably other similar products available) if you need to create thin inserts in your flangeways, I've use this strip in years gone by not for the bottom of the flangeway but on the side of check rails to accommodate varying back-to-back measurements of locos where adjustment of the wheelsets is impractical.

Eichhorn offer complete frog insert castings to replace "insulfrogs" for some of the Peco range (and other brands).  For example:

https://www.eichhorn-modellbau.de/produkt/elektrofrog-peco-turnout-code-80-medium-left-13396



I've considered trying these for the Setrack points in my fiddleyards but to be honest I don't get a lot of problems as the dead frogs are short anyway and most of my locos are long wheelbase or bogie locos.

[crewearpley40]

Thanks ntp Nick..which product from your link please ? Just seen slaters link https://slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/microstrip.php  and thinking measurements size etc..happy christmas..chris

[ntpntpntp]

Thanks ntp Nick..which product from your link please ? Just seen slaters link https://slatersplastikard.com/plastikard/microstrip.php  and thinking measurements size etc..happy christmas..chris

Er... well Tim says he's using 0.4mm so that would be halfway between the 0.010" and 0.020"  microstrip, I guess you'd need the 0.030 width but as I say I've not actually used Microstrip in the bottom of the flangeway.   Maybe try the "assorted" pack as that should give you some different samples to try and also leave you with plenty of useful strips for other construction projects etc.?

[edwin_m]

Evergreen do 0.4mm strip in a range of widths.  There would still be the problem of getting the right taper to make them join together without a gap. 

[bluedepot]

hi everyone! happy christmas!

i bought a white a4 sheet of 0.4mm plasticard.

i cut it into a triangle the size of the frog and then cut it into the right > shape. i then add a smaller triangle piece the other side of the frog. i then test fit them.  if it fits i then paint it black and carefully superglue it in place!

it's really annoying! i was hoping there was a better way or someone knew of an insert product for sale.

anyway it seems like I'll just have to stop moaning and get on with it!  some very small scissors and good eye sight help with this task.

i know the pacer should jump around a bit but without this point modification it just looks ludicrous!

i remember drinking a full cup of coffee on a pacer (going to middlesborough i think) and struggling not to spill it going over junctions somewhere en route

cheers



tim

[chrism]

anyway it seems like I'll just have to stop moaning and get on with it!  some very small scissors and good eye sight help with this task.

A modelling knife (or, my personal preference, scalpel) and a magnifying light might make it easier.

[ntpntpntp]

Yes a scalpel is generally a much better weapon of choice than scissors, more precise.  Granted the 0.4mm sheet is thin enough to cut with scissors though.   For thicker sheets remember you don't have to cut all the way through, just score about half way through and bend at the cut to separate.