HST and Intercity coaches

petercharlesfagg · October 12, 2014, 12:55:05 PM

Friends,

Possibly a bit dumb question but...........

Are the HST 125 coaches the same design as the Intercity coaches?

Why, because if the answer is yes, I could hopefully purchase vinyl overlays and change the coaches to something more useful to me in that it is likely that I could purchase a loco that WOULD have run with the coaches? (You get my drift?)

I have 3 HST 125 coaches that look most incongruous with anything else pulling them! (Even with my liking for the absurd!)

Peter.

edwin_m · October 12, 2014, 01:07:40 PM

The Mk3 coaches used with the HST are the same basic design as the loco-hauled Mk3s used mainly on the West Coast Main Line from the mid-70s to the introduction of the Pendolinos. They would have run with a Mk1 gangwayed brake and later with a Mk3 DVT. The loco-hauled versions were also used on the Glasgow-Edinburgh push-pull workings from about 1980 to 1990.

The loco-hauled versions differed in having buffers each end, and also in details of the roof ventilators. I believe Dapol models are available with and without buffers but all have the same ventilator arrangement, which is difficult to change so most people probably live with it.

johnlambert · October 12, 2014, 02:14:39 PM

One more thing - possibly only relevant to the blue & grey Intercity coaches - was that the height of the grey band was not the same between loco-hauled coaches and Intercity trailer cars.

petercharlesfagg · October 12, 2014, 03:41:57 PM

Quote from: johnlambert on October 12, 2014, 02:14:39 PM
One more thing - possibly only relevant to the blue & grey Intercity coaches - was that the height of the grey band was not the same between loco-hauled coaches and Intercity trailer cars.

John, Thankyou but will it matter if I replace the coach sides with vinyl overlays?

Peter.

petercharlesfagg · October 12, 2014, 03:44:33 PM

Quote from: edwin_m on October 12, 2014, 01:07:40 PM
The Mk3 coaches used with the HST are the same basic design as the loco-hauled Mk3s used mainly on the West Coast Main Line from the mid-70s to the introduction of the Pendolinos. They would have run with a Mk1 gangwayed brake and later with a Mk3 DVT. The loco-hauled versions were also used on the Glasgow-Edinburgh push-pull workings from about 1980 to 1990.

The loco-hauled versions differed in having buffers each end, and also in details of the roof ventilators. I believe Dapol models are available with and without buffers but all have the same ventilator arrangement, which is difficult to change so most people probably live with it.

Edwin, thankyou.

I only have 3 coaches and inclines on my layout.

I wasn't intending to purchase more coaches I just thought that it would be a way around the problem of not being able to get the correct loco for them!

Regards, Peter.

johnlambert · October 12, 2014, 04:57:51 PM

Quote from: petercharlesfagg on October 12, 2014, 03:41:57 PM
Quote from: johnlambert on October 12, 2014, 02:14:39 PM
One more thing - possibly only relevant to the blue & grey Intercity coaches - was that the height of the grey band was not the same between loco-hauled coaches and Intercity trailer cars.

John, Thankyou but will it matter if I replace the coach sides with vinyl overlays?

Peter.

Hi Peter. No, if you're covering the sides with vinyl overlays I don't suppose it will

MJKERR · October 12, 2014, 10:33:49 PM

What livery are the current coaches?
What livery are you intending to swap to?

If the base colour is the same (raspberry ripple InterCity) and you simply want change the text, then you can remove these with ease
I have just modified an InterCity buffet to INTERCITY livery, correcting the errors that both Dapol versions have

petercharlesfagg · October 13, 2014, 08:29:10 AM

Quote from: mjkerr on October 12, 2014, 10:33:49 PM
What livery are the current coaches?
What livery are you intending to swap to?

If the base colour is the same (raspberry ripple InterCity) and you simply want change the text, then you can remove these with ease
I have just modified an InterCity buffet to INTERCITY livery, correcting the errors that both Dapol versions have

Thankyou for the information.

I am totally confused now, it appears that I have either the HST coaches or the Intercity, I am no longer sure!!!

Hopefully this picture will give everyone the information they need to put me out of my misery?

Warmest regards, Peter.

BernardTPM · October 13, 2014, 09:27:34 AM

That's an early Farish Mk.3 TS in blue/grey where the window strip is a separate clear moulding. Buffers aren't fitted (they're a separate clip-in moulding, fitting those square holes at the end underneath the coach). The bodies on these are slightly smaller than the later 1990 on version where the whole body was moulded in clear plastic and printed. If you're going to fit vinyls you could add a strip of 40 thou."/1mm styrene along the bottom (smooth to profile when set) and 20 thou."/0.5mm styrene washers on the bogie pivots. This will bring it more into line with later coaches and the vinyls designed for the later coaches should fit.
The '125' suffix was added to HST coaches around 1979 so they ran without it from 1976 to that date.

MJKERR · October 13, 2014, 12:20:41 PM

As above, this is the early Farish Mark 3 coach in Blue Grey livery

Furthermore, the Electra Graphics Vinyls don't really work on this Farish coach type
The windows won't quite line up and you will need to trim the upper or lower edge after fitting

Personally, purchase the replacement buffers and interiors from BR Lines, and utilise the coaches in the interim period
Replace them with the Dapol Mark 3 coach (that you actually want to use)