Privatization and new releases

Intercity · July 02, 2019, 06:31:11 PM

The post about future plans by the Revolution guys got me thinking about the topic of whether privatization affected how new models are put on the drawing board, studied and potentially released.

In BR days many locos and stock were "standardized", by this I mean BR Blue etc, then came sectorization and we got things like Scotrail, NSE etc, but by and large these covered big areas, even the freight side had much much less variation than today.

Did this make researching and releasing models easier for manufacturers as less liveries etc meant a wider buyer base?

Fast forward to the current day, multiple operators with many having multiple liveries, non-standard stock (many of the same family coaches/MUs have differences relative to the operators needs), take a look at the former NSE area and the current day has many different operators running in those areas.

Also is it harder for a manufacturer to positively assure themself of a good choice when the current days trains are mostly made up of MUs and historically don't sell well, again I point back to the old NSE days, yes we probably all think straight to slam door EMUs, however we had 33s, 47s, 50s and 73s on hauled coaches on various routes, plus more I'm obviously missing.

So has the current shape of the real railway adversely affected the modeling world?

martyn · July 02, 2019, 07:18:37 PM

Several years ago at York show I mentioned this to the Farish rep on the Bachmann stand. He said it was 'a nightmare' for several reasons; amongst which were/are

Operators change
Liveries change, even within the lifetime of a franchise
Licencing issues
Manufacturing slots
Delivery times

Then the franchise owner changes again and all the effort is lost.......

That's a bit of a simplification, but one thing he said was definitely against current era is the shear time needed to actually come up with a model, the correct livery, and a time slot to get it onto the shelves. Not impossible, but not too easy either, especially when the franchises were for five years.

Martyn

RailGooner · July 02, 2019, 07:35:30 PM

Interesting.

I'm sure there is a link, but less sure of how that links presents. We'll have to fund a couple of boffins to research it for several years and present their findings long after we've all forgotten the question.

Adam1701D · July 02, 2019, 08:02:35 PM

It must be difficult for the RTR manufacturers to keep up with changes. Just think of the Farish 350 in TransPennine livery that will likely be obsolete and replaced by new Class 397 units before it is ever released. Sometimes they don't help themselves by making dubious choices of models whilst ignoring much more popular prototypes. I'm talking to you, Unrefurbished CEP

Fortunately, there are some cottage industries out there who produce decals and erm...vinyls who can dive in quickly and fill the gaps.

That reminds me, I must crack on with the Northern Turbostar artwork...

jpendle · July 02, 2019, 08:56:02 PM

Funnily enough I have been thinking much the same thing recently.

We are almost back to "Pre-Grouping"as far as Passenger carrying rolling stock goes, lots of liveries, that change from time to time, and not a single 'standardized' loco or coach, etc.

For the "very modern" modeller this is a bit of a dilemma. My Pendolinos were already disappearing fast by the time I got them, I've revinyled my CL350 in TPE livery twice now.
I want a TPE CL397 and 802 plus a Northern 331 and 195. BUT I know that they will only be of interest to someone modelling the North of England.

I'm resigned to doing a lot of Rule 1 stuff, a West Midlands 350 (green is my favourite colour) Virgin Red Pendos alongside debranded ones. Old Northern Rail and TPE liveried units alongside, hopefully, brand new ones, etc, etc.

At least the BR stuff ended up almost everywhere.

Regards,

John P

Adam1701D · July 02, 2019, 09:31:21 PM

I can see the Class 800/1/2 coming in N sooner or later as these are starting to appear all over the network - literally from Penzance to Inverness! Like them or not, they are here to stay with more operators taking them on in due course.

First Group are planning to use them on their open access London to Edinburgh service, East Midlands Railways are bidding for bi-mode units and I would not be surprised if XC don't go for them in their next franchise.

I was able to sample one of the LNER "Azuma" units in April on a preview trip (Mrs Electra works for the company) and they are really good, with blistering acceleration on electric power.

By the way, if green is your thing, I have just put the finishing touches to my LNWR Class 350 vinyls ;-)

njee20 · July 02, 2019, 09:35:22 PM

The issue with the 800 being that allegedly Hornby have the rights to the N gauge model, but we've seen no intention to deliver one.

I get that trying to keep up with the contemporary scene is a bit of a nightmare, but I never quite understand comments you sometimes see about "oh it's obsolete before its released, they'll have to redo it/it'll never sell".

acko22 · July 02, 2019, 11:28:49 PM

Hi All,

Indeed when you compare liveries of BR blue period Vs Modern Era where things are more complicated.

BR Blue era you needed Blue and there you go for body side colour (Depends which works it came out of as to which shade), but now there is a wide variety which well keeping pace with is interesting.

On the flip side of things while there are so many liveries it does mean that manufacturers get the max out of certain tooling, as an example the first batch of 250 x 66s you have 5 EWS/DB Livery variations (EWS maroon and gold, Debranded Maroon and gold, Euro Cargo Rail Maroon and Gold, DB logo Maroon and Gold, DB Cargo) then the GBRf class 66/7s (780-789) that were from the original batch that they purchased off DB, although modified externally they are no different.
This means for examples such as this the manufacturers get the most out of the tooling which will keep the costs down to a degree, but it does also allow for a cottage industry for some of the liveries that the manufactures don;t manage to get out there!

BR Signalman · July 04, 2019, 09:32:16 PM

Having sat in the office today and seen a shocking pink Class 66 go by, I despair! Why? A vomit icon would be good!!

RailGooner · July 04, 2019, 09:55:05 PM

Quote from: BR Signalman on July 04, 2019, 09:32:16 PM
Having sat in the office today and seen a shocking pink Class 66 go by, I despair! Why? A vomit icon would be good!!

'tis a vision of rare beauty and a pending project.

BR Signalman · July 04, 2019, 09:57:13 PM

T'was totally nausea inducing!

njee20 · July 04, 2019, 10:05:08 PM

It's certainly striking! I've seen worse on a 66!

crewearpley40 · July 04, 2019, 10:35:08 PM

Frieightliner liuery green ok. Personally the 66 evening star was pleasant. Bring back two tone green, blue/ grey, large logo like 37, 47 and 50s wore, maroon or black. My opinion

RailGooner · July 04, 2019, 11:02:05 PM

I'll bet Katie Price likes it!

robert shrives · July 04, 2019, 11:17:21 PM

I recall Mr Watts at Fox transfers noting the fast and furious livery explosion and how the market was so fickle that demands for new liveries meant less than 6 weeks to get one on the shelves before overtaken by the next set of kings new clothes!
Currently same in 66 makeovers, however the savvy/exploitative- depending on your viewpoint TOC/FOC and lessors have cottoned on to the licencing game. Also I think some for a game like to make it so complicated that the manufacturers sweat !

Iam sure the 800 fleet will subsume the world and so give lots of livery variations based about white as the preferred dft background. It is logical that XC get some but until more wire and depot space available its a moot point. The use of the revised HST (255) will be among us for awhile. Also need to get these in N but four body mouldings required to cover all bases converted so far by Wabtec.
Robert