Mk1 restaurant and buffet coaches

[ohlavache]

Good evening.
There are these lovely Mk1 restaurant and buffet coaches from Graham Farish.
I would like to know what their usual livery was between 1955 and 1976, especially on the line from London to Dover.
Was it crimson & cream or maybe maroon or green ?

I tried also to get some information on what kind of restaurant or buffet coach (RUO, RB, RSO, etc.) was used on the Night Ferry for the breakfast in the morning when coming from Paris.
If you have some pictures of this or these coaches, it would be great.

Thanks for your help.

[Newportnobby]

That's a mighty big time span, and I'm not sure if Crimson & Cream would have been seen in that area. I would maybe suggest 1) Green 2) Maroon and 3) Blue & Grey

[EtchedPixels]

I guess the answer is "yes" as your period spans crimson and cream to blue/grey, but all of them only for part of that period.

The Southern didn't like crimson and cream and tried to keep its older stock in green by revarnishing (thereby managing to to avoid the edict on repaints being c/c), but new coaches like the Mark 1 coaches would have been crimson and cream initially. The rules were later relaxed and while other regions went maroon the southern went green, although coaches would have turned up in maroon too from other regions. Finally the British Rail brand was created and *everything* was painted blue or blue/grey down to parcel trolleys. It was part of the whole 1960s movement to corporate branding, style books, no exceptions and rigorous enforcement. That really only came to an end with the silver jubilee when the rebellion began with two locos with silver roofs and union jacks. Soon after that silver roofs, white stripes, unofficial shunter nameplates and the like began to break out across the network.

For the early end of your period I suspect the coaches would have been mostly Bulleid coaches still in green, but a southern expert can probably advise further. Bachmann are supposed to be releasing the Bulleid coaches in the next 18 months.

I don't believe the Night Ferry carried a Mark 1 catering vehicle, the usual consist was a Mark 1 brake with a special gangway, a fourgon (French luggage van) or a UK luggage van, and the specially built wagon-lits sleeper coaches.

The White Pullman/Continental Express/Golden Arrow return service would also have been pullman coaches. That ended in 1972 (with a one off run in 1994 to celebrate the chunnel opening). The old old Graham Farish pullman coaches are not far off those of the Golden Arrow. Some of the real ones had six wheel bogies which is a doable but non trivial conversion. In spirit however they are pretty close and the bodies are not far off. In later years the second class part was must Mark 1 coaches.

LS Models have been going to do the Night Ferry sleepers for about 4 years but still haven't done them.

Most of the services for much of the time would of course have been EMU units (4CEP, 4VEP etc)

[MJKERR]

These may be lovely bodies, but the lack of interior in some of them really detracts from them
It will be interesting to see if the new batch of Restaurant and Kitchen cars have an iterior

[dodger]

To add to Alan's post very few Mk1 catering vehicles worked on the Eastern section of the Southern. Maunsell catering vehicles were generally used as many were refurbished in the postwar/early nationionalised period, even though most seating coaches were either Bulleid or Mk1's, until the end of steam. The vehicles refurbished in BR days were painted crimson/cream

The night ferry also used Maunsell catering vehicles, 7868 & 7969, were converted for the Night Ferry service, including continental gangways. Two open thirds, 1363 & 1364, were converted to open firsts and renumbered 7846 & 7847 for use as Night Ferry dining saloons. All four vehicles were fitted with electric heating in 1959 in readiness for the use of electric locos on the service. Mk1's replaced the these Maunsell vehicles in the mid-60's.

Most Bulleid and Mk1 catering vehicles were used on the western section or inter-regional services.

The majority of southern Mk1 catering vehicles were RB's, but one triple set RFO-RK-RSO was supplied as part of the Festival of Britain set used on the Royal Wessex. It was replaced by a Bulleid Tavern pair and TSO to increase seating capacity and later used on weekend extras to Devon/Cornwall.

Two RKB's were allocated to the Southern but I am not sure of their use until the early 70's when they were on the Western and used as the catering vehicle for the Cornish Riviera and Golden Hind sets.

Dodger

[ohlavache]

Many thanks for your answers. 
To be true I keep on waiting for LS Models' Night Ferry sleepers.

According to the information I've found, after mid-1977 a BCK coach was part of the train.
But before mid-1977 there was an Mk1 restaurant or buffet coach for the breakfast. It is unclear if it was an RB or an RSO coach.

Now, according to your posts, we can assume that this RB or RSO coach was green.
What I also learned from you is that some Maunsell coaches were part of the Night Ferry. Good to know to complete the hypothetical sleepers from LS Models.
Good night.