What is this wagon please ?

[Papyrus]

Isn't this forum amazing? No matter how obscure or specialist the question, somebody knows the answer!



Cheers,

Chris

[SheldonC]

Geez, this a thread woken up!

Good question, though! 

I couldn't find the answers by searching & I don't know how to start my own thread - unless the Forum gives you that option when you breathe life into an old one. 

[SheldonC]

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In these books, Mr Larkin CORRECTLY uses the official description "Crimson" where most MODELLERS INCORRECTLY use "Carmine" or "Carmine Red".

Ouch!

[SheldonC]

My first problem is that I need to know (if possible) what railway's product is it based on, what diagram number was it

It isn't an exact replica of any prototype, but is closest to a GNR design of c 1920. (should be 2ft longer)

and what colour should it be to run on my railway based on BR 1948 - 1968?

At the start of that date range - Brown (shade variable from tan to v dark depending when it was last painted). In the middle of that range - unlined Crimson. after c 1960 - charcoal (it would have become firewood!)

Unfortunately, by the time these vehicles were being built & some BR(S) stock (such as some of the horse boxes) was being painted Green, Carmine/Crimson had been replaced for passenger carrying stock by Maroon on other regions.  Can anyone please confirm my suspicion that, in this case, Mr Larkin has erred and that those Mk 1 horse boxes that weren't painted Green were all painted Maroon?

Nope - in Crimson from new. Some were repainted in Maroon (an odd few even lined) but most were never repainted and remained in crimson...

Thanks for that.  Looks like a fictitious number would be in order, especially since my railway is also fictitious & set in a fictitious place.

[belstone]

I bought one of these some time ago at a swapmeet; it has sprung couplings & the Graham Farish name + "MADE IN ENGLAND" moulded into the Chassis, and the wagon appears never to have borne paint or decals. 

Nice find from the very, very early days of British N Gauge.  Farish introduced a range of wagons around 1970 (before they started making locos) and the early ones were  unpainted and fitted with Arnold-type sprung couplers in a big round-bottomed coupler box.  At one point Farish were promising to introduce one new wagon every month. You could buy a transfer sheet separately, and one of the railway magazines ran a "Paint your wagon" competition in 1970-71.  At some point Farish replaced the nice reliable sprung coupler with the infamous "U-bend" version, presumably to avoid having to pay royalties to Arnold, not sure when this happened but I think it was around 1973-4. 

Richard

[SheldonC]

Unfortunately, by the time these vehicles were being built & some BR(S) stock (such as some of the horse boxes) was being painted Green, Carmine/Crimson had been replaced for passenger carrying stock by Maroon on other regions.  Can anyone please confirm my suspicion that, in this case, Mr Larkin has erred and that those Mk 1 horse boxes that weren't painted Green were all painted Maroon?

Nope - in Crimson from new. Some were repainted in Maroon (an odd few even lined) but most were never repainted and remained in crimson...
[/quote]  Thanks for that.  Looks like a fictitious number would be in order, especially since my railway is also fictitious & set in a fictitious place.
[/quote]
Since receiving this information, and painting my kit-built Mk 1 horse box crimson, I have obtained a copy of Keith Parkin's highly respected book "British Railways Mark 1 Coaches" and the 2006 supplement.  Mr Parkin makes it clear that BR never used the term "carmine"; the early form of red was, as stated, always referred to as "crimson".  However, the only reference he makes to HB in any shade of red is in the caption on p. 199, showing that "E96307 on display in 1957 is in unlined maroon livery."  Whilst it is possible the first 6 built (not in numerical order, according to Hugh Longworth) were painted crimson - especially as they preceded E96307 by several months - it appears likely all of those built afterwards that weren't green would have been in unlined maroon.

[BobB]

Going off topic (sorry)......

I have been comparing some lined maroon suburbans from Farish with their crimson finish examples. Crimson looks a delight - to me the maroon looks dirty next to them. Just an observation.

[SheldonC]

Going off topic (sorry)......

I have been comparing some lined maroon suburbans from Farish with their crimson finish examples. Crimson looks a delight - to me the maroon looks dirty next to them. Just an observation.

I much prefer full-size coaches in maroon to those in crimson & cream, largely as the crimson tends to fade (UV?).  However, in model form, I find the maroon coaches tend to look dowdy, muddy, whereas the crimson & cream ones look great.