Problems with Graham Farish Winston Churchill

[GreenDiesel]

Merry Christmas!

My son & his girlfriend kindly gave me two practically new GF locos for Christmas. One was the Merry Hampton (372-377) and the other was Winston Churchill (372-277). They bought these from a member* from our British train club that I belong to, here in Canada. 

Well, the Merry Hampton runs totally fine and I'm breaking it in now. But the Winston Churchill won't budge at all — nothing. I've tried gently pushing its driving wheels, in case they're locked, but still nothing. Any suggestions?

-----------------------------------------

*earlier this year, I bought another GF loco from this gentleman & it ran fine. So there are no "mistrust" issues here at all.

[Bob G]

These "practically new" GF locos are in fact around 20 years old.

First things first. You need to see if the worm drive actually rotates or if it is gummed up solid. Remove the body. There will be a securing screw towards the front and then slide the cab backwards and the body will come free. There should be no wires connecting the loco and tender because when these were produced the only pickups were on the six main driving wheels.

Apply power to the wheels, axle by axle. Do you get any movement of the motor. Can you feel any power going to the motor?

Now identify where the motor feeds are. There should be power to each of the brushes either side of the commutator. Apply power leads to these points and see if the motor runs? If it does, it suggests that the pickups are not collecting power from the wheels. You should also be able to see the brass pickups either side of the chassis block that rub on the rear of the driving wheels. Apply power to these. If the motor runs from this point but not from the wheels then the pickups need to be re-bent to apply pressure to the rear of the driving wheels. You can remove the baseplate and gently remove the drive wheels, keeping the valve gear fully connected between the wheels. Then splay open the pickups a little and refit.

If the motor only runs at the motor itself then there is probably a break in the power feed between the pickups and the motor.

If nothing works at all, then the motor is dead, or needs a good service.

These are just the simple things to try, to eliminate the main problem areas.

Merry Christmas and good luck.

Bob G
 

[GreenDiesel]

These "practically new" GF locos are in fact around 20 years old.

First things first. You need to see if the worm drive actually rotates or if it is gummed up solid. Remove the body. There will be a securing screw towards the front and then slide the cab backwards and the body will come free. There should be no wires connecting the loco and tender because when these were produced the only pickups were on the six main driving wheels.

Apply power to the wheels, axle by axle. Do you get any movement of the motor. Can you feel any power going to the motor?

Now identify where the motor feeds are. There should be power to each of the brushes either side of the commutator. Apply power leads to these points and see if the motor runs? If it does, it suggests that the pickups are not collecting power from the wheels. You should also be able to see the brass pickups either side of the chassis block that rub on the rear of the driving wheels. Apply power to these. If the motor runs from this point but not from the wheels then the pickups need to be re-bent to apply pressure to the rear of the driving wheels. You can remove the baseplate and gently remove the drive wheels, keeping the valve gear fully connected between the wheels. Then splay open the pickups a little and refit.

If the motor only runs at the motor itself then there is probably a break in the power feed between the pickups and the motor.

If nothing works at all, then the motor is dead, or needs a good service.

These are just the simple things to try, to eliminate the main problem areas.

Merry Christmas and good luck.

Bob G

Thanks, Bob. This is helpful. We will take a look as per above. Rob

[PLD]

So they're both Chinese assembled versions of original Poole design Models so somewhere between 10 & 20 years old...

They're not prone to jamming or the dreaded split gears, so if it's completely dead, most likely electrical continuity. There's no complex electronics involved so check are pick-ups making good contact with the wheels? Are brushes present and properly seated In the holders? Then check with a meter or circuit tester each step from pick-ups to motor brushes each side.

[Roy L S]

So they're both Chinese assembled versions of original Poole design Models so somewhere between 10 & 20 years old...

They're not prone to jamming or the dreaded split gears, so if it's completely dead, most likely electrical continuity. There's no complex electronics involved so check are pick-ups making good contact with the wheels? Are brushes present and properly seated In the holders? Then check with a meter or circuit tester each step from pick-ups to motor brushes each side.

It may not seem like it but Poole derived models made in China ceased production way more than 10 years ago, I think the first of the "new" breed of steam locos (beginning with the Jubilee) arrived 2007-ish, and what followed from that very quickly was the entire range of brand new tool steam locos, so I would say production of Poole derived steam locos ended more like 16-18 years ago.

I had A3 "Merry Hampton" in the early "Noughties" and would think "Winston Churchill" was produced within a year or two of it, making both more like 20 years old (scary!).

Roy

[Bigmac]

if its totally dead when put on the track then whats the odds the tiny nut that holds the wire inside the loco has come loose or off.

[Bob G]

if its totally dead when put on the track then whats the odds the tiny nut that holds the wire inside the loco has come loose or off.

Good thought. the OP will see that when he takes the body off. I'd forgotten about their construction because it's been so long since I ever needed to get into one of these.

Bob

[ntpntpntp]

I've just worked through a deceased friend's collection of British N locos (Some had been stored unused for well over 10 years).  Any that failed to run the first thing I did was remove the body, remove bogies (check for split gears) and apply power directly to the motor checking for signs of life.  If none, I tried rotating the motor armature gently by hand at low power to see if that kicked into life and that all poles were live.  I then removed and fettled the brushes and springs, cleaned the commutator and lightly lubricated the bearings. 

No dead motors or over-worn brushes, but quite a few split 16 tooth and 12 tooth gears in the bogie diesels and electrics

[GreenDiesel]

Thanks for these replies! Now that the house has gone fairly quiet, I will remove the loco's body today and check. Cheers, Rob

[PennineWagons]

Model Rail Database is always a good source of info on production dates for particular models.

Winston Churchill - https://www.modelraildatabase.com/locomotives/details/4119/

Merry Hampton - https://www.modelraildatabase.com/locomotives/details/4138/

Both were in the Farish catalogue from 2005-2009, so assuming that Farish only produced the one batch of each and then kept them in the catalogue until they were sold out, they're both twenty years old.

PW

[Bob G]

Both were in the Farish catalogue from 2005-2009, so assuming that Farish only produced the one batch of each and then kept them in the catalogue until they were sold out, they're both twenty years old.

PW

I knew that, which is why I told the OP that in my first post. IDK why it was ever questioned.  Possibly because I was more interested in answering his original question rather than demonstrating how clever I was as a historian

[Hailstone]

there is also the possibility that the wheels are dirty - a number of the locos that I have aquired second hand or "fixed" for friends had this problem. also the commutator slots may be full of carbon from the brushes.

Regards,

Alex

[PennineWagons]

Both were in the Farish catalogue from 2005-2009, so assuming that Farish only produced the one batch of each and then kept them in the catalogue until they were sold out, they're both twenty years old.

PW

I knew that, which is why I told the OP that in my first post. IDK why it was ever questioned.  Possibly because I was more interested in answering his original question rather than demonstrating how clever I was as a historian

Hmm. Bit grumpy with our post-Xmas hangover are we?
Pardon me for posting links to info which I thought the OP might find of interest.
PW

[Bob G]

Both were in the Farish catalogue from 2005-2009, so assuming that Farish only produced the one batch of each and then kept them in the catalogue until they were sold out, they're both twenty years old.

PW

I knew that, which is why I told the OP that in my first post. IDK why it was ever questioned.  Possibly because I was more interested in answering his original question rather than demonstrating how clever I was as a historian

Hmm. Bit grumpy with our post-Xmas hangover are we?
Pardon me for posting links to info which I thought the OP might find of interest.
PW

I've been on RMWeb a bit too much, probably!

[PennineWagons]

Hmm. Bit grumpy with our post-Xmas hangover are we?
Pardon me for posting links to info which I thought the OP might find of interest.
PW

I've been on RMWeb a bit too much, probably!

Ah, that explains things then!
No worries, enjoy the rest of the holidays.
PW