60th anniversary of N gauge?

Chris Morris · March 31, 2018, 08:23:34 AM

Following on from the latest "NGS Journal" and "Golden age over?" topics it seems to me that making 2020 a celebration all things N gauge on its 60th anniversary would be a good thing. Just wondering what others think?
Maybe the forum would be a good place to organise some events and publicity for N gauge?
Does anyone have the interest/energy or is it best left to the organisation of NGS?
Do we agree that 2020 could be reasonably be called the 60th anniversary of N gauge?

I'm sure there are many more questions. It just seems to me that this may be an opportunity to grab publicity for N gauge and with it get some more people on board.

I claim to be a newcomer to N gauge having only been involved with N since about 2012. But thinking back I had a Lima N gauge set for Christmas back in maybe 1966 so I was in N gauge close to the start after all. From what I remember it was a cracking loco with two or three coaches. I don't know what happened to them all those years ago. The loco was one of these and it still looks like a good model in photos today. I was tempted to buy one for nostalgic reasons until I saw the prices being asked on Ebay.

Bealman · March 31, 2018, 08:35:58 AM

Yes, there are sure to be differing views on this topic.

I had quite a collection of Lone Star dicast push along stuff in the late fifties. However, I too question the claim that 1960 was the beginning of N. I think a bloke called Groves was working in 2mm scale at that time, however the first reference to N scale I remember seeing was in Meccano Magazine in the mid 1960s.

As stated in the "Golden" thread, the powered Lone Star stuff was called Treblo, not N.

However, there's no harm in pushing the scale in two year's time.

Skyline2uk · March 31, 2018, 08:48:05 AM

I would encourage the idea of a big celebration especially in light of the problems with the NGS 50th.

With as much notice as 2020 I might even be willing to get involved.

That being said, it should be established with some certainty and clarity what is actually being celebrated. What will be 60 years old?

I am no expert at all on this, but this is a basic question otherwise what is the purpose?

Is it 60 years since "N gauge" was defined? What point in history are we referencing?

Skyline2uk

Bealman · March 31, 2018, 08:56:44 AM

I suppose in true Monty Python style, we could celebrate "60 years we think"....

Newportnobby · March 31, 2018, 09:01:04 AM

Not sure if I'm being naive but one would have thought Meridienne would make a big fuss of TINGS in the relevant year. I might even drag my sorry backside down the motorways for a 'SuperMeet'

Bealman · March 31, 2018, 09:16:26 AM

And maybe mine from upside down land

PLD · March 31, 2018, 06:35:21 PM

Arguably, N Gauge as we know it started with the range launched by Arnold at the 1962 Nuremberg Toy fair, which would make 2022 the 60th...

That was the first time a Ready to Run range in a consistent scale and style was available and was when the ubiquitous rapido coupling first appeared...

marco neri · March 31, 2018, 07:23:22 PM

Hi,
the loco is an "our" Italian diesel D341 built by FIAT......and like many models of that years has various mistakes.
The first and main is the roof with vent that are "on the contrary".

Cheers.

Marco

Hiawatha · March 31, 2018, 07:57:57 PM

Quote from: PLD on March 31, 2018, 06:35:21 PM
Arguably, N Gauge as we know it started with the range launched by Arnold at the 1962 Nuremberg Toy fair, which would make 2022 the 60th...

That was the first time a Ready to Run range in a consistent scale and style was available and was when the ubiquitous rapido coupling first appeared...

Arnold itself considered 1960 the birth of N scale - it's noted on the 2000 catalogue as "40 years of N gauge 1960-2000".
In 1960 the 9 mm track was introduced, although it was not yet defined as scale 1:160. The system was called Arnold Rapido 200 with a quoted scale of 1:200 but of course 9 mm track is too wide for 1:200. In fact the V200 was shortened to a length of 1:220 and the coaches even to 1:256.
In 1962 Arnold decided to change the scale to the correct (for 9-mm gauge) 1:160. But the early V200 was produced further until 1964, albeit with modifications to the couplers.

That the Arnold Rapido 200 was not yet called "N" or didn't have the later standard N coupler are (for me) no reasons to deny these models the status as the first N models. How many inventions were called something else than what we say today to the same thing? And the earliest N models from Minitrix, Piko, Lima and Tibidabo also have different couplers but can still run on DC layouts.

ntpntpntp · March 31, 2018, 08:09:58 PM

Quote from: marco neri on March 31, 2018, 07:23:22 PM
The [Lima] Italian diesel D341 built by FIAT......and like many models of that years has various mistakes.
The first and main is the roof with vent that are "on the contrary".

Interesting, I'd not noticed that before with that old Lima model. At least Rivarossi got that correct with their version.

marco neri · March 31, 2018, 08:16:49 PM

Quote from: ntpntpntp on March 31, 2018, 08:09:58 PM
Quote from: marco neri on March 31, 2018, 07:23:22 PM
The [Lima] Italian diesel D341 built by FIAT......and like many models of that years has various mistakes.
The first and main is the roof with vent that are "on the contrary".

Interesting, I'd not noticed that before with that old Lima model. At least Rivarossi got that correct with their version.

...instead, Rivarossi version has a curious pick up voltage system....if yuo have ever seen it...two bottoms near wheels..

ntpntpntp · March 31, 2018, 08:34:34 PM

Quote from: marco neri on March 31, 2018, 08:16:49 PM
...instead, Rivarossi version has a curious pick up voltage system....if yuo have ever seen it...two bottoms near wheels..

Yes the little round sprung pickup skates. I had one of these Rivarossi D341 locos back in the 1980s, and I still have a BR216 diesel with the skates. They work quite well but don't look so good.

I like the pickup skates on my LGB locos, they're good for dirty track in the garden!

PLD · April 01, 2018, 07:10:25 PM

Quote from: Hiawatha on March 31, 2018, 07:57:57 PM
Quote from: PLD on March 31, 2018, 06:35:21 PM
Arguably, N Gauge as we know it started with the range launched by Arnold at the 1962 Nuremberg Toy fair, which would make 2022 the 60th...

That was the first time a Ready to Run range in a consistent scale and style was available and was when the ubiquitous rapido coupling first appeared...

Arnold itself considered 1960 the birth of N scale - it's noted on the 2000 catalogue as "40 years of N gauge 1960-2000".
In 1960 the 9 mm track was introduced, although it was not yet defined as scale 1:160. The system was called Arnold Rapido 200 with a quoted scale of 1:200 but of course 9 mm track is too wide for 1:200. In fact the V200 was shortened to a length of 1:220 and the coaches even to 1:256.
In 1962 Arnold decided to change the scale to the correct (for 9-mm gauge) 1:160. But the early V200 was produced further until 1964, albeit with modifications to the couplers.

That the Arnold Rapido 200 was not yet called "N" or didn't have the later standard N coupler are (for me) no reasons to deny these models the status as the first N models. How many inventions were called something else than what we say today to the same thing? And the earliest N models from Minitrix, Piko, Lima and Tibidabo also have different couplers but can still run on DC layouts.

Hence why I started with 'Arguably'...

There are a number of key events that have a valid argument for being the introduction of 'N Gauge'. Personally I favour 1962, (the 1:160 scale and a consistent range) but freely admit that 1960 (9mm gauge track) has near equal merit...
BRITISH N gauge (1:148) and Japanese N gauge (1:150) both are much later so can be discounted...

RailGooner · April 01, 2018, 07:26:05 PM

Let's kick off celebrations in 2020 and party for 2 years!

ohlavache · April 02, 2018, 10:17:41 PM

1960 was also the point of view of the I-N-G-A in 2010.
And the same year, the first Treble-O selfpropelled locomotives were made available.
I have a Lone Star class 23 and I had an early Arnold V200. I can't make a difference with my other N gauge stuff. Of course they are old and with limited details (which includes their non-conventional scale), but they still run on 9mm gauge tracks.
If we go with 1962 because of wrong scale, we should then exclude from N gauge all current Japanese stuff representing 1067mm gauge railways or Kato RhB range because the models should use 6.5mm gauge tracks and not 9mm gauge tracks. That would be strange.
Last, in its early years, the only name for Z scale was "mini-club". Z scale name came some years after 1972. But since 1972, Z scale exists.

But the best proposal is definitely a 2-year celebration !