Size, semaphore signal

[MalcolmInN]

Seasonal greetings and happy whatsits to all &etc. :

In a mad moment, possibly induced by the festivities, I got to wondering about signals and how big (small !) they are ( or would be if I had the dexterity and eyesight ) in N.

No doubt it is all out there on the web somewhere,
but perhaps someone has already researched typical dimensions, eg. length and width of the bar ( blade? flag ? indicating thingie !) and width of the supporting post ; I guess the height of the post would vary considerably depending on circumstance/location and things.

Thanks.

[7P5F]

No set size or layout for signals,they were built to suit the location.No need to worry about size,you can buy the signal arms & other components here,

                        http://www.wizardmodels.co.uk/FrameSetShop.php?DM=wizabout

   Just scroll through the list till you find the 2mm scale parts you need.The signal arms come as a brass etch.



                         Ray

[7P5F]

Hope this link works,these are some(non working) signals i built from plastis rod & strip using Wizard models arms(dollies).

              http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29245.msg326054#msg326054

              Ray.

[MalcolmInN]

found Ratio plastic kit in which the arm is 10mm x 2mm
and http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/81618-semaphore-signal-post-heights/#entry1364453
which says a uq arm is [typically?] 5ft3in
So, good enough for my experiments and any searchers who wander by !

Meanwhile I have a Mk1 proof of concept working model magnetic bearing,,,
but cannot get a .avi movie of it to show up here
which is probably just as well since it is Orribly Overscale as it was done whilst I was bored on Xmas day
[ quote = Wizard models,
but they are closed and miles away, where's the fun ? ]
before I found the above dimensions ,,, more later if you are very unlucky

bit surprised that no one had any example dimensions to hand

[martink]

That information seems to be quite hard to find on the net, so I dug out my copy of Derek Mundy's Signals for the Railway Modeller, and while there are no definitive numbers, here are a few random dimensional quotes and figures...

- height from rail to signal - 15' to 35'  (SR)
- signal always at or above the driver's eye height
- spacing between two signals on same mast - 6' (4' for calling on or smaller arm)
- signal arm usually 1'6" from top of post (not counting the finial)
- black paint line 4' from ground level
- lattice post (LSWR, SECR, NBR) - 20' to 60' tall
- table of standard lengths of tubular post (no specified company) - 17', 19', 21', 24', 26', 29', 31', 34', 36' (plus a few inches here and there)
- bracket signal, minimum spacing between dolls - 6'6" (10' for parallel running lines)
- various references to a 4' arm (the coloured bit, not including the black spectacle plate) or 2' calling-on arm
- the 10" wide white stripe being 11" back from the end of the arm on a home signal
- the 8" wide chevron on a distant being 12" back from the edge

Then, in Railway Signal Engineering (Mechanical) by Lewis, 1932...
- "Some companies had the sizes of wooden arms made proportional to the height of the post..."
- as a rule, arms on brackets were made shorter than on single posts to to keep the brackets as short as possible
- standard lengths of wooden signal arms, centre of signal post to tip of arm...
  - main line 5'0" x 12" or 4'6" x 10"
  - main line to goods line 4'0" x 12" or 3'6" x 10"
  - main line to siding 3'0" x 9" or 2'0" x 6"
  - sidings 2'6" x 8" or 2'0" x 6"

Measuring a couple of Ratio and MSE signal arms on mine, the coloured portion of the main arms is 4' plus another 6"-12" or so of black to the centre of the post, or 3' for backing/siding signals.

So, are you suffering from information overload yet?  Ask a simple question...   

[N-Gauge-US]

That information seems to be quite hard to find on the net, so I dug out my copy of Derek Mundy's Signals for the Railway Modeller, and while there are no definitive numbers, here are a few random dimensional quotes and figures...

- height from rail to signal - 15' to 35'  (SR)
- signal always at or above the driver's eye height
- spacing between two signals on same mast - 6' (4' for calling on or smaller arm)
- signal arm usually 1'6" from top of post (not counting the finial)
- black paint line 4' from ground level
- lattice post (LSWR, SECR, NBR) - 20' to 60' tall
- table of standard lengths of tubular post (no specified company) - 17', 19', 21', 24', 26', 29', 31', 34', 36' (plus a few inches here and there)
- bracket signal, minimum spacing between dolls - 6'6" (10' for parallel running lines)
- various references to a 4' arm (the coloured bit, not including the black spectacle plate) or 2' calling-on arm
- the 10" wide white stripe being 11" back from the end of the arm on a home signal
- the 8" wide chevron on a distant being 12" back from the edge

Then, in Railway Signal Engineering (Mechanical) by Lewis, 1932...
- "Some companies had the sizes of wooden arms made proportional to the height of the post..."
- as a rule, arms on brackets were made shorter than on single posts to to keep the brackets as short as possible
- standard lengths of wooden signal arms, centre of signal post to tip of arm...
  - main line 5'0" x 12" or 4'6" x 10"
  - main line to goods line 4'0" x 12" or 3'6" x 10"
  - main line to siding 3'0" x 9" or 2'0" x 6"
  - sidings 2'6" x 8" or 2'0" x 6"

Measuring a couple of Ratio and MSE signal arms on mine, the coloured portion of the main arms is 4' plus another 6"-12" or so of black to the centre of the post, or 3' for backing/siding signals.

So, are you suffering from information overload yet?  Ask a simple question...   

Thanks so much!!! What great info!       I painted one of the Ratio 260 distant or home signal kits today and will have to measure my stripes and see how I did eyeballing it

[MalcolmInN]

so I dug out my copy of Derek Mundy's Signals for the Railway Modeller, and while there are no definitive numbers, here are a few random dimensional quotes and figures...
,
Ask a simple question...   

Excellent, thank you so much from me too,
   

That should keep me going a little while,
all I have to do now is get my stereo microscope and micromanipulators out of store

[edwin_m]

The current standard dimensions for semaphore signals are set out on page 22 of standard GK/GN0657 which is searchable from rgsonline.co.uk.  The coloured part of the arm is 1060mm by 260mm (3'6" by 10" approx) and dimensions are also given for the different coloured areas. 

While this is a modern document I have no doubt it represents standard practice from the past, as there has been no reason to change it.  The LMS, LNER and SR were using very similar signal arms from the 1920s onwards and the LMS and LNER adopted pretty much the same designs for other signal components too, from about WW2.  As always the GWR had to be different and their standards were perpetuated on most former GWR routes, right up to the present day when if a new signal has to be installed in a semaphore area it will generally adopt the same style the existing signals nearby.  I believe GWR arms are somewhat larger and tapered but I don't have any dimensions to hand.