Ideas for 4-6-2 tender locos... with no valve gear!

[Ozymandias]

I've picked up a couple of 4-6-2 tender chassis "spares/repairs" (one Minitrix, one Farish), and while the motors and drive wheels work, the valve gear (except the main coupling rods between the driving wheels) are beyond all help.

I was thinking about making one into the Princess Anne LMS Turbomotive, as this has no valve gear - but does anyone know of other locos of a similar wheel layout, that use no valve gear, that I could make the other one into?

Seems a shame to waste a working chassis!

Any suggestions (sensible or fanciful!) gratefully received!

[NeMo]

I was thinking about making one into the Princess Anne LMS Turbomotive, as this has no valve gear - but does anyone know of other locos of a similar wheel layout, that use no valve gear, that I could make the other one into?

BH Enterprises make a whitemetal 'Turbomotive'.

But I can't for the life of me think of any Pacifics with inside cylinders only, which is what you're asking. There was of course the utterly bizarre GT3 gas turbine, but it was a 4-6-0. Possibly with a bit of artistic license you could do something along those lines?

Cheers, NeMo

[Oldun]

Some thing along these lines:

[smg id=14404]
Drive system.

[smg id=14406]
Picture card.

[smg id=14407]
Hornby version.

[smg id=14408]
Comparison shot.

Roger

[PLD]

To manage with inside cylinders only, you are limited to two relatively small cylinders and consequently limited in power and performance. All British Pacifics were 3 or 4 cylinder engines to deliver the required power for their intended role...

Even the majority of 4-6-0s were outside cylindered to allow larger cylinders than could fit between the frames as well as for ease of maintenance, IIRC the largest British 6 coupled locos without outside cylinders were the Highland Jones Goods and they were only rated as power class 4.

[Oldun]

Here is a cut through pic of the turbine:

[smg id=14415]


As far as I can find out only locomotive one was built, actually 'modified' (46202 Princess Anne)

I haven't found any others yet, British that is.

Roger

[Roy L S]

To manage with inside cylinders only, you are limited to two relatively small cylinders and consequently limited in power and performance. All British Pacifics were 3 or 4 cylinder engines to deliver the required power for their intended role...

Not quite all, both the Britannias and Clans were/are Pacifics that have only two cylinders!!

[PLD]

As far as I can find out only locomotive one was built, actually 'modified' (46202 Princess Anne)

Roger

T'other way round actually...

6202 was built new as the experimental Turbomotive in 1935 and operated in that form successfully for over 15 years. Reputed to be cheaper to run but more expensive to maintain than her conventional sisters.

By the early 1950s the main drive turbine was worn out but replacement was not financially justified so she was rebuilt as a conventional loco re-entering service in July 1952 and named "Princess Anne" the following month but was damaged beyond repair in the Harrow and Wealdstone accident in October of that year.

[PLD]

To manage with inside cylinders only, you are limited to two relatively small cylinders and consequently limited in power and performance. All British Pacifics were 3 or 4 cylinder engines to deliver the required power for their intended role...

Not quite all, both the Britannias and Clans were/are Pacifics that have only two cylinders!!

whoops yes - forgot those, though at least one of the initial designs for what became the Brit was 3 cylinder... 

[EtchedPixels]

If you drop the tender then how about a GCR 9N (aka LNER A5) ? (and lots of other choices). The GCR one seems a good choice to me because its a big chunky loco with quite large wheels so ought to fit well on a chunky chassis.

You can also do a fair number of 4-6-0s by taking bits off, and inside cylinder 4-6-0's did exist in number (eg the B12).

Or for a real beastie how about a Furness Railway "Jumbo" 4-6-4 tank ?

[Oldun]

As far as I can find out only locomotive one was built, actually 'modified' (46202 Princess Anne)

Roger

T'other way round actually...
6202 was built new as the experimental Turbomotive in 1935 and operated in that form successfully for over 15 years. Reputed to be cheaper to run but more expensive to maintain than her conventional sisters.
By the early 1950s the main drive turbine was worn out but replacement was not financially justified so she was rebuilt as a conventional loco re-entering service in July 1952 and named "Princess Anne" the following month but was damaged beyond repair in the Harrow and Wealdstone accident in October of that year.

This is the info I found:

1/ The Turbomotive was a modified Princess Royal Class steam locomotive designed by William Stanier and built by the London, Midland and Scottish Railway in 1935. It used
    turbines instead of cylinders. It was later rebuilt as a conventional locomotive 46202 Princess Anne.

2/ A prototype batch of three locomotives was to be constructed in 1933. Two were constructed as drawn but the third set of frames was retained as the basis for an
    experimental turbine locomotive. The third prototype was constructed with the aid of the Swedish Ljungstrom turbine company and known as the Turbomotive, although
    not named. It was numbered 6202, in sequence with the Princess Royals. Although 'generally similar' to the rest of the Princess Royals, and 'not all that much different', it
    used a larger 40 element superheater to give a higher steam temperature, more suitable for turbine use. This boiler was also domeless as would later be used for the
    second batch of the Princess Royals. The continuous exhaust of the turbine, rather than the sharper intermittent blast of the piston engine, also required changes to the
    draughting and the use of a double chimney. It entered service in June 1935 on the London–Liverpool service.
    This Turbomotive was rebuilt in 1952 with conventional 'Coronation' cylinders and named Princess Anne, but was soon destroyed in the Harrow and Wealdstone rail crash.

    Hence my comment 'one was built, actually 'modified'.

Roger

[PLD]

This is the info I found:

The third prototype was constructed with the aid of the Swedish Ljungstrom turbine company and known as the Turbomotive,

Roger

Wikkipedia? 

As per your own (badly worded) source, 6202 was constructed as the Turbomotive and later rebuilt as a Conventional loco.

It was NOT built asa conventional and Modified to Turbo drive as your original posting implied...

[Roy L S]

To manage with inside cylinders only, you are limited to two relatively small cylinders and consequently limited in power and performance. All British Pacifics were 3 or 4 cylinder engines to deliver the required power for their intended role...

Not quite all, both the Britannias and Clans were/are Pacifics that have only two cylinders!!

whoops yes - forgot those, though at least one of the initial designs for what became the Brit was 3 cylinder...

Really which design was that?

Any material I have on BR Standards suggests two outside cylinders was always part of Riddles' design ethos for the locos (with the notable exception of the one-off Duke of Golucester)  to ensure ease of maintenance (although the resultant "hammer blow" on the track of having just two cylinders was by all accounts far greater than a three or four cylinder design).

Regards

Roy

[Ozymandias]

Thanks for all the input, chaps!

Certainly some food for thought there (I like the A5 idea very much!)

The other option was staring me in the face as I'm actually building one at the moment - lop off the two rear wheels and hey presto, a Holden B12 (possibly, ish)...

[msr]

I find this web site great for inspiration when faced with bits and pieces:
http://loco.skyrocket.de/

The Midland Railway 2299 might do the trick for you:
http://loco.skyrocket.de/data/mid_2299.htm

For those who like rolling roads, take a look at the 1887 Holman:
http://loco.skyrocket.de/data/holman.htm

Mike