Wagon Turntables

[port perran]

Hi

I'm planning a small(ish) extension to Port Perran which will be a N Cornwall branch line terminus and harbourside yard (similar to that which existed at Hayle).  I may take the opportunity to make it a joint SR/WR station so that I can add Southern locos/stock.
I'd like to incorporate a wagon turntable (as existed at various locations).
However, what were the turntables used for ? Why was it necessary to turn wagons (most had access from either side).
I can see that they could be useful for turning eg GWR Toad brakevans  but what about other wagons?
Maybe they also allowed access to inner sidings in tight areas (I think the one at Kyle of Lochalsh performed this task).
Also, were the wagons horse drawn (I have a picture of one at Bath Spa with a horse) or were wagons sometimes levered by hand and long lever like poles (I can remember vans being moved like this at Trowbridge goods yard when I was very young) or were they simply accessed by small tank locos?

[Rabs]

Interesting you should mention Bath Spa, that's where I'm modelling! (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72424-bath-spa-high-tech-modelling-bringing-1947-into-the-21st-century-3d-printed-scenery-cnc-milled-track-laser-cut-baseboards-and-computer-control/)

Wagon turntables weren't usually for turning wagons - as you say, what would be the point?  AS you have guessed, they were generally to allow wagons to be shunted onto sidings in densely packed goods yards, docks, industries, etc where there wasn't space for pointwork.  To take Bath as an example, the wagon turntables allowed the planners to make use of the small areas at either end of the station for goods loading areas where there are a number of tracks at right angles to one another.  Any curve would be far too sharp, even for 4 wheel wagons, so a small turntable had to be used.

Depending on location, small turntables might or might not be able to take a small tank loco.  In Bath the shunting loco was specifically forbidden from the turntables because they were lightweight designs.  In many docks the turntables form part of the through line along the wharf and hence need to be able to take a light loco.

For moving the wagons there were a number of options.  At Bath they were horse drawn until the 60s (by a horse called Prince).  At other stations (such as Moor Street) powered capstans were used.  These are heavy duty 'bollards' which are fixed to a motor buried in the ground.  The motor makes the capstan rotate.  You loop the rope or chain round it and friction binds the rope and pulls the wagon along.  In a typical yard you would have some powered capstans in key locations and then some fixed capstans to act as simple pulleys to allow you to pull at different angles. In some places manual or animal driven capstans were used.  In others, particularly pre 1900, wagons could be moved by burly men with levers.

Wagon shunting would often be a combination of the above, depending on the space available and the amount of traffic.

Hope that helps!

[Newportnobby]

Although I remember seeing someone had very recently brought out N gauge motorised wagon turntables (Fleischmann??) I am sorry I can't recall who the heck it was

[scotsoft]

I remembered about this cd turntable which I thought was very realistic 

http://www.carendt.com/articles/FAQs/CDtable.html

cheers John.

[Oldman]

Peco 009 turntable is not quite long enough for a N gauge 10'wagon.
Designed for a slate wagon or  V hopper which are 12mm wheelbase.
Track is only moulded so needs painting in a rail colour

[Gooner53]

I had a good hunt for N gauge wagon turntables earlier in the year as the plans for Barnstaple Junction show them in use in several places in the yard. I did find http://www.railmodels.eu/en/catalog/catalog/wooden-turntables-n-scale/ - a bit pricey but they do look like mini works of art.... I am seriously tempted!

Nick

[Agrippa]

Further to recent posts there is a website "Goods and not so goods" (sorry cant put link) which
has drawings of small wagon turntables in situations mentioned , also a large amount of
detail about freight working and track layouts for various types of sidings and industrial areas.

[EtchedPixels]

Peco 009 turntable is not quite long enough for a N gauge 10'wagon.
Designed for a slate wagon or  V hopper which are 12mm wheelbase.
Track is only moulded so needs painting in a rail colour

Quite a few wagon turntables only coped with 9' wheelbase wagons. The ones at Fowey until the end of the clayhood traffic included.

They could also be used with some carefully designed bogie wagons. You stuck one bogie on, rotated it 90° and then pushed the wagon along until the other bogie was on the wagon turntable and repeated the exercise. That was generally only found on narrow gauge.

In diesel days the class 02 shunters were very short wheelbase in part so they could be stuck on a wagon turntable.

Alan

[Dorsetmike]

I needed one for coal deliveries to the boilerhouse of the Metcalfe Factory

[smg id=6700]

I had the remains of a couple of Peco TTs and used them with some plastic bits to produce this

[smg id=6699]

I first cut cut a length suitable for up to about 12' wheelbase wagons and cut a circle of thick plasticard the same diameter,  glued the section onto the disc,  I then then cut two pieces off the sides of the turntable track deck to fit either side of the piece of TT track, cut and filed until it matched the plastic disc and glued it all together. I next made a hole in the centre of the disc and into the track section to take  some plastic tube, glued that in place and filed the end flush with the surface of thje disc, then inserted qnd glued a piece of plastic rod which protruded  about 15mm l from the disc.

Made a hole in the baseboard  about an inch deep to take more of the same diameter tube and also dug out a circle deep enough to take a circle of the  same thick plastic and glued all that in place; the rod under the "turntable"  is pushed into the tube in the baseboard. It's mainly a cosmetic thing, a coal wagon is parked alongside the coal storage next to the boiler house, but the TT is left in the through  position. At the moment there is no power to it, entry to the siding is from the far end from the TT so wagons would be pushed onto the TT turned onto the coal road and so far the means to move them, horse or capstan has noy been installed.

I still need that round tuit for the ballasting either side of the TT and other "clean up" finishing touches. The track from the TT to the coal storage is also from a Peco TT, height is just right to go betwen two pieces of foam board which the factory is mounted on.

[REGP]

PP
I recently came across a wagon turntable by Faller on the Kernow Model Centre web site and wondered if it was of any interest to you, (if only to gain ideas)

Its Ref 222114 Faller small wagon turn table with motor £31.99 and you should find it at:

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/category/1164/Faller

Ray

[Dorsetmike]

PP
I recently cam accross a wagon turntable by Faller on the Kernow Model Centre web site and wonderedf it was of any interest to you, (if only to gain ideas)

Its Ref 222114 Faller small wagon turn table with motor £31.99 and you should find it at:

http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/category/1164/Faller

Ray

I did look at that when I wanted one earlier in the year but at 63mm overall that scales to over 30' in N which struck me as being a bit big esspecially for the location I wanted to fit into.