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Your Layout and Models => On My Workbench => Topic started by: Eggmarine on March 11, 2020, 04:45:07 PM

Title: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 11, 2020, 04:45:07 PM
Hello all, after sourcing an etched loco kit i realised i should probably practice on something a bit easier to replace if/when it went wrong. I decided to try the mineral wagon offered by the 2mm fs association and the resulting chassis is pictured below.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/5979-110320163318.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=88588)

As i'm an n gauger i wanted to fit n wheel sets so i tried to ream out the axle holes to accomodate them. While i got them to fit they don't turn very well so this wagon will probably end up in a scrap siding, and any future models from 2mm fs i'll have to order their n gauge wheelsets, at over 2 per axle they're a lot more expensive than the ngs wheels but they do provide access to a mountain of kits, so i'll be joining 2mm fs next pay day.

I used solder paste and most of it was 'sweated' together. The nickel silver chassis seems suprisingly robust considering it's small size.

I've been bitten by the bug now and i have a couple of ngs 25t brake van etches to tackle next, who knows these ones might even end up running on my layout.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: emjaybee on March 11, 2020, 04:57:19 PM
That looks to be a tidy effort. Nice work.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 11, 2020, 05:20:57 PM
That looks to be a tidy effort. Nice work.

Thankyou i'm feeling encouraged i always considered it a black art.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: thebrighton on March 11, 2020, 05:38:58 PM
Looks a great start to me :)
An alternative to the N wheelsets from the 2mmSA is to give the following a try: 2-047 Axles: Steel: Pinpoint: 12.25mm for Farish RP25 Wheels at 4.50 for 4. It's just a case of popping the wheels off the Farish axle and onto the 2mm one.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 11, 2020, 06:04:35 PM
Looks a great start to me :)
An alternative to the N wheelsets from the 2mmSA is to give the following a try: 2-047 Axles: Steel: Pinpoint: 12.25mm for Farish RP25 Wheels at 4.50 for 4. It's just a case of popping the wheels off the Farish axle and onto the 2mm one.

Thanks for that  :thumbsup: it makes being able to swap between guages a lot more plausible which is attractive to me at this stage.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: msr on March 11, 2020, 06:19:53 PM
What kind of solder paste is best for this kind of work with kits?  And is a syringe application best, or the tub where you spread it on?
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 11, 2020, 07:01:33 PM
@msr (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=231) I used the solder paste from Eileens Emporium as i wanted a simple entry into soldering kits. I don't know wether or not other solder pastes would be as effective but the amount i used means there is enough to make several hundred kits from the pot they sent me.  The solder paste is a grey slurry which i assume contains powdered solder and a liquid flux.

I applied the paste sparingly with a cocktail stick and touched the soldering iron nearby until the heat conducts to the paste and fizzes, the area turns silver when the solder melts. I clamped bits together with little clothes pegs or a set of sprung tweezers. The parts need to be clamped as i found they can float into a different position when the solder is melted which is difficult to correct, this happened on one of the axle boxes and it set at the wrong angle.  Seams can be reinforced by adding more paste and applying heat. The paste is bulky but after heat the remaining solder is very thin.

I do have some flux and a syringe but i haven't tried it yet. I want to try this more traditional method on one of the brake vans i have so i'll feed back.

I do get the impression the solder paste makes life a lot easier.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: emjaybee on March 11, 2020, 11:16:40 PM
That looks to be a tidy effort. Nice work.

Thankyou i'm feeling encouraged i always considered it a black art.

This Forum can give you confidence to try anything. I went from a standard model builder of kits to a kit/model hacker and rebuilder, there's always someone on here who can point you in the right direction regardless of how obscure the question is, how to build rain gutters was an eye opener for me. So it all starts with baby steps (small chassis) and progresses into who knows what.

The progress you've made in building this chassis has inspired me to have a crack in the future, but there's a long list of things in front first, all inspired by people on here.

So roll on your next bit, I look forward to seeing it.

 :wave:
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 12, 2020, 07:37:11 AM
That looks to be a tidy effort. Nice work.

Thankyou i'm feeling encouraged i always considered it a black art.

This Forum can give you confidence to try anything. I went from a standard model builder of kits to a kit/model hacker and rebuilder, there's always someone on here who can point you in the right direction regardless of how obscure the question is, how to build rain gutters was an eye opener for me. So it all starts with baby steps (small chassis) and progresses into who knows what.

The progress you've made in building this chassis has inspired me to have a crack in the future, but there's a long list of things in front first, all inspired by people on here.

So roll on your next bit, I look forward to seeing it.

 :wave:

Thanks @emjaybee (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5604) i hope you have a go, i'm glad to have provided some inspiration  :) There are some inexpensive old frets available on the ngs shop, ideal for trying this sort of thing.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Stevie DC on March 12, 2020, 08:29:54 AM
Excellent first attempt. Like Gareth, I've mainly used the Association's conversion axles and Farish wagon wheels to fit to the etched chassis. While I use solder paste, I've found that cutting small bits of solder (Carr's 145 solder) and placing them on the model with some flux is generally easier.

I look forward to seeing your future efforts at these. Best of luck with the brake vans.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 12, 2020, 04:09:36 PM
Thanks everyone for the encouraging responses. I managed to finish the mineral wagon assembly and give it all a wash. I also got to fix the original 2mm wheel bearings after my botched n gauge conversion attempt so it's now a working wagon albeit in the wrong guage- never mind axles are available!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/5979-120320160824.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=88720)



One setback was that i happened to slip and mangle the brake gear while i was filing the chassis to fit the body. All was not lost i managed bend things back into place but the brake rigging looks a bit wobbly now.

Paint shop next then i'll fit nem pockets for couplings. I'm thinking i'll have fixed small rakes with an easi shunt at each end but that's another discussion.

Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 16, 2020, 04:11:58 PM
Work has started on the bogie brake van. First impressions are that the brass is a lot softer than the nickel silver on the previous model so more care is required. The sides and cabin ends have gone on
well enough although i was a bit generous with the solder so I have taken it into work to tidy things up on my break. I've used solder paste again, an early try with 188 wire solder and yellow flux didn't go anywhere, possibly it's the wrong flux? It does say white metal OR brass.

Apologies for the upsidedown photo i'll try to sort it :hmmm:


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/5979-160320161440.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=89061)
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 17, 2020, 07:49:29 PM
A bit more progress on the brake van. It's a lot more tricky than the 2MM SA mineral wagon and the stripping so far looks sloppy, i've got a second fret though so this can be a practice one. I'll finish it though so i can see how my soldering looks under a layer of primer.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/5979-170320194214.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=89114)
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Stevie DC on March 17, 2020, 08:14:20 PM
I used a glass fibre brush to clean up excess solder. If things are too excessive for this, I have a cheap flathead screwdriver that I ground to a sharp edge to remove excess solder. The trick is to use as little solder as possible; it's amazing just how little is needed for most joints.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 18, 2020, 07:58:53 AM
I used a glass fibre brush to clean up excess solder. If things are too excessive for this, I have a cheap flathead screwdriver that I ground to a sharp edge to remove excess solder. The trick is to use as little solder as possible; it's amazing just how little is needed for most joints.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice Steve, definitely looks like a 'less is more' approach is needed for the solder!
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Stevie DC on March 18, 2020, 08:43:27 AM
Thanks for the advice Steve, definitely looks like a 'less is more' approach is needed for the solder!

I great tip I was given is to cut small bits of solder (between 0.5mm and 1mm lengths) flux the joint and place the solder into the joint using tweezers. Then apply the iron to make a tack joint and check the alignments before reintroducing the iron and turning the tack(s) into a seam. Also wherever possible, try to solder from inside the model, that way most of the mess (if any) will be hidden and the amount of cleanup is lessened.

Most of the brake van below (a hacked 2mm Association kit), was done using this method and cleaned up with the glass fibre brush. However, I'm sure more mess will ensue when I solder the handrails into place - I've been putting this off for far too long!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/213-311219182107-856441943.jpeg)

So far you're doing a great job and I'm looking forward to seeing the brake van completed.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 18, 2020, 11:24:49 AM
Thanks for the advice Steve, definitely looks like a 'less is more' approach is needed for the solder!

I great tip I was given is to cut small bits of solder (between 0.5mm and 1mm lengths) flux the joint and place the solder into the joint using tweezers. Then apply the iron to make a tack joint and check the alignments before reintroducing the iron and turning the tack(s) into a seam. Also wherever possible, try to solder from inside the model, that way most of the mess (if any) will be hidden and the amount of cleanup is lessened.

Most of the brake van below (a hacked 2mm Association kit), was done using this method and cleaned up with the glass fibre brush. However, I'm sure more mess will ensue when I solder the handrails into place - I've been putting this off for far too long!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/213-311219182107-856441943.jpeg)

So far you're doing a great job and I'm looking forward to seeing the brake van completed.

Great model! Very neat and clean. Photos like that keep me inspired, thanks.  I did try the chopped up bits of solder method you suggest but i didn't get anywhere, perhaps due to the flux i was using which looks primarily for whitemetal but says it can also be used on brass.

I've also been using a pointed solder bit which i know isn't ideal for conducting heat, a chisel tipped one has just arrived however so i'm about to have another try.  Thanks again for the advice.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Stevie DC on March 18, 2020, 08:16:09 PM
Great model! Very neat and clean. Photos like that keep me inspired, thanks.  I did try the chopped up bits of solder method you suggest but i didn't get anywhere, perhaps due to the flux i was using which looks primarily for whitemetal but says it can also be used on brass.

I've also been using a pointed solder bit which i know isn't ideal for conducting heat, a chisel tipped one has just arrived however so i'm about to have another try.  Thanks again for the advice.

Thanks, it is quite messy on the inside though! I'm currently using Carrs Yellow flux and find that working above 310 degrees with the iron works best for 145 solder (my preference solder). A small tip will require more time to heat the metal sufficiently to get a good solder flow but give you much more control over where the heat is applied. I like to use a 3mm (or larger) tip whenever possible, going down to the small sizes for detail work and/or confined spaces.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on March 21, 2020, 01:24:17 AM
A further session on the queen mary this evening, i added to the rudimentary brake hangers with some nickel silver wire left over from the mineral wagon and some vacuum cylinders fabricated from some left over brass fret. They're bottomless but once it's on the rails no one will know!

The instructions suggest a plasticard roof but since all i had with me was brass i decided to make up a brass roof salvaged from another unstarted kit. It was bent to shape by rolling it under the curved edge of a large padlock of all things because it was what i had handy. The drain strips are more left over bits of fret.

The roof is tacked on so i can return and paint the internal bits and possibly glaze the model too. Not sure yet if i'll do that. The model needs bogies and buffers, bogies from the ngs shop as they have a suitable plastic effort and i'm eyeing up some buffers on ebay.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/5979-210320011956.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=89254)



(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/5979-210320012033.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=89255)


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/5979-210320012114.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=89256)

No handrails as yet due to no wire. I've got a guitar somewhere that comes with a stash of strings, not sure if a top E will be too thick i'll check tomorrow.

I'm interested to see how this will look after a coat of primer, the patchwork of solder and brass looks a bit shabby but i'm hoping she'll scrub up and take paint well.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on April 18, 2020, 01:17:14 PM
The task of applying the handrails didn't go well and ended up being a bit of a mess. I'm going to salvage the better parts of the brake van and rebuild using the lessons i've learned and the second backup etch bought from the ngs.
I'll add my workbench thread to my signature and put any further updates there. Thanks all!
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Stevie DC on April 19, 2020, 12:11:15 AM
Handrails are always a bit of a swine in this scale. You'll find it much easier to solder them from the inside of the van and fix the roof as the last job - far less mess and cleaning up that way around. With what you've learnt so far, the next attempt should be an absolute stonker!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Newportnobby on April 19, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
Handrails are always a bit of a swine in this scale. You'll find it much easier to solder them from the inside of the van and fix the roof as the last job - far less mess and cleaning up that way around.

@Stevie DC (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213)
That's the typical logical sort of solution that would never have crossed my mind and, apart from physical ability, is why I do very little bashing/building :-[
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Eggmarine on April 19, 2020, 09:40:45 AM
Handrails are always a bit of a swine in this scale. You'll find it much easier to solder them from the inside of the van and fix the roof as the last job - far less mess and cleaning up that way around. With what you've learnt so far, the next attempt should be an absolute stonker!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thanks Steve i think i'll try the next attempt by doing the hamd rails fairly early in the assembly.
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Stevie DC on April 19, 2020, 11:27:17 AM
That's the typical logical sort of solution that would never have crossed my mind and, apart from physical ability, is why I do very little bashing/building :-[

Mick, how exactly do you think I ended up deciding that it was the best method?  :smiley-laughing: At only 5, the BHE LNER wagon body kits are a good way of making mistakes learning without too much of a pain financially.  ;)

Thanks Steve i think i'll try the next attempt by doing the hamd rails fairly early in the assembly.

No problem, don't add them too early as they might get damaged. I tend to put them on after everything else is assembled but before the roof. If you have one, use a fine bit in your soldering iron to keep the heat localised and reduce the chance of disturbing anything else.

Don't get disheartened, you're doing much better than I did for my first efforts.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: belstone on April 19, 2020, 11:56:33 AM
Guitar wire is steel and probably won't solder very well.  Nickel silver is much better - I get mine in straight lengths from Nairnshire Modelling Supplies and use it for all sorts of things.  0.45mm is a little bit large diameter but easy to work with and not too fragile.

It's good to see someone having a go at etched kits and learning new skills along the way.  If you are going to make a habit of this, look at buying a resistance soldering unit (RSU).  It's like magical soldering.

Richard
Title: Re: An early attempt...
Post by: Stevie DC on April 19, 2020, 03:45:05 PM
Guitar wire is steel and probably won't solder very well.  Nickel silver is much better - I get mine in straight lengths from Nairnshire Modelling Supplies and use it for all sorts of things.  0.45mm is a little bit large diameter but easy to work with and not too fragile.

It's good to see someone having a go at etched kits and learning new skills along the way.  If you are going to make a habit of this, look at buying a resistance soldering unit (RSU).  It's like magical soldering.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I use the non rusting wire which is nickel plated. I've not had a problem with soldering it so far.
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