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Your Layout and Models => Layout Construction => Topic started by: MarshLane on February 15, 2020, 12:13:35 PM

Title: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 15, 2020, 12:13:35 PM
Well I may regret starting this thread so early, but as I am seeking a bit of help it seemed logical rather than having a couple of different threads for different things.

I am finally making a start on my 2mm Finescale layout, based loosely on Treeton Junction.  For those of you not in Yorkshire, Treeton is on the 'old road' between Rotherham Masborough and Barrow Hill, and was the southern point of a triangle that formed the eastern exit from Tinsley Yard at Sheffield.  As well as being two track from the box north to Rotherham, it was four-track from the junction south to Barrow Hill, and could be busy place back in the late 1970s/early 1980s with north/south traffic as well as arriving and departing freights for Tinsley.

The plan is to base the layout on the location in terms of surroundings and track layout, but its position will alter slightly for reasons that will become apparent later on. Primarily a freight layout, some cross-country and local passenger services will appear from time to time (hence the loosely!).  It will be a slow build, and I was going to hold of posting about it anywhere (although I do have a workbench thread on rmWeb (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/150556-a-new-modelling-chapter-marsh-lane-workshops/)) because I am not a fan of things the cannot really show anything!  The rmWeb thread is concentrating on learning the art of turnout building at the moment, but there is plenty to come on locomotive modifications, detailing and repainting too!  This thread will be a slow build, but once the first set of baseboards are built and the pointwork is complete, things will hopefully move a bit.

Baseboard advice?
However, when Ive build small layouts in the past, it has had a 2x1 or 2x2 framework and chipboard or 5-ply top. Its worked ok, but the move to 2mm Finescale with this layout has given me the incentive to think if I am hand building the trackwork to get it right and looking good, lets do the baseboards the same way.  Therefore I am going for an open frame design with the trackbed raised slightly, so that the scenery can flow around it and hopefully look better.  I am currently working out the final track plan in Templot, which I'll post once I am happy with it.

Having never build an open frame layout before, can anyone offer any advice?  Specifically any pitfalls, things to do, or things to avoid?  The layout will be portable - while I doubt it will interest anyone from an exhibition position, it will be erected in the living room when running, so needs to be packed away for obvious reasons.  I am therefore keen to keep it lightweight but solid.  At home it will almost certainly just be me, so erecting it needs to be a one-man operation.  I am therefore thinking of 3' x 2' as a maximum (give or take an inch or two, depending on where the turnouts fall on the Templot plan) - to be manageable, and probably needs some form of cart to move them from the living room to the shed for storage, so again that kind of size seems manageable.  I am planning on acquiring a sliding mitre saw to make the woodwork easier (the local B&Q has a MacAlistar MMIS210S in for £90) - my straight line hand sawing maybe renowned with the family for not quite being that straight  :(

But I welcome any thoughts, comments and (polite!) suggestions from anyone please.

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: Newportnobby on February 15, 2020, 01:37:57 PM
All I can offer, and this applies to solid and open frame baseboards, is to avoid adding battens until it is known where points will be. Yes, I know it makes sense but I wonder just how many have fallen foul of completing the baseboards before laying the track. It really only applies to anyone using under board motors. Likewise if you have tracks crossing tracks don't have a point on the bridge as adding a point motor may cause a height/obstacle issue.
Good luck. I like open frame baseboards.
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 15, 2020, 01:56:24 PM
All I can offer, and this applies to solid and open frame baseboards, is to avoid adding battens until it is known where points will be. Yes, I know it makes sense but I wonder just how many have fallen foul of completing the baseboards before laying the track. It really only applies to anyone using under board motors. Likewise if you have tracks crossing tracks don't have a point on the bridge as adding a point motor may cause a height/obstacle issue.
Good luck. I like open frame baseboards.

Thats a logical point (excuse the pun!).  I am going to avoid cutting any wood until the Templot track plan is set in stone and printed out, so that should get me around that one, but thanks for putting it forward, easy to forget, and yes have made the mistake before!  Point will be controlled by servos (controlled themselves by MERG boards), as I think the slower movement will be better for handbuilt trackwork.

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: crewearpley40 on February 15, 2020, 01:59:29 PM
Allow plenty of space for point motors, wiring  aCcess under boards
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 16, 2020, 07:22:00 PM
Guys,
Thanks for the feedback so far. Much appreciated.  My current line of thought is to use 9mm ply for the sides and cross members, with 18mm ply, together with pattern makers dowels for the ends. However, I am going try and establish a level datum point so that the cross members can be cut to the correct outline on the baseboard top.  That at lease is the plan. The cross members I'll drill some 1inch diameter holes in to reduce the weight and also pass the cables through.  I have yet to work out how the supporting framework for the legs and stand will come together, these need to fold down to take up the minimum amount of space when stored.

I am giving some thought to the electrical planning as all this is coming together and have narrowed it down to either 5 or 6-pin DIN plugs, or 9-pin D Sub connectors, depending on the number of wires to be patched through.

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: crewearpley40 on February 16, 2020, 07:23:54 PM
So plenty of class 08, 20, 37, 47,56,58 and dmu action rich ?
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: degsy_safc on February 16, 2020, 08:00:20 PM
I am planning on acquiring a sliding mitre saw to make the woodwork easier (the local B&Q has a MacAlistar MMIS210S in for £90) - my straight line hand sawing maybe renowned with the family for not quite being that straight  :(

But I welcome any thoughts, comments and (polite!) suggestions from anyone please.

Rich
Hi Rich,

Not sure if youíve had / used a compound mitre saw before, but you need to be aware that you need to check the blade for square against the rear fence and table before you make any cuts - itís not certain that it will be set up square out the factory - they are supposed to be, but not guaranteed to be accurate.

Additionally they have a maximum crosscut width (I cannot find anything against this specific model), depending on the timbers you are cutting you may find this not wide enough for baseboard plywood sheets.

Similarly they also have a maximum depth of cut - you shouldnít have any issues cutting say 2x2 3x2 3x1 4x1 but anything greater youíll need to find out the maximum cross & depth cuts of the saw.

Be prepared for lots of sawdust, the built in dust bags catch a Ďlittleí bit but to be honest itís hardly any, I use a Henry hoover attached to my evolution saw for dust extraction and although it collect quite a lot compared to the bag - there is always loads extra to clean up afterwards.

Anyway thought Iíd just share with you, just in case youíve never had one of these before and wanted you to be aware before you splash out £ís on something that might not do what youíre expecting it to do..

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 16, 2020, 08:53:06 PM
So plenty of class 08, 20, 37, 47,56,58 and dmu action rich ?

Thats the plan!  20s, 25s, 31s, 37s, 40s, 45s, 47s and 56s - might have to be a rule #1 sneek in of a 58!  But DMUs on the local passengers - with the odd 31s with Mk1s in the mix - plus 45s, 47s and perhaps the odd 50 on cross-country workings.  But primarily freight action with wagonload, steel and various block workings.  The junction area will hopefully have working semaphore signals too - that's the eventual aim.

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 16, 2020, 09:01:24 PM
Hi Rich,

Not sure if youíve had / used a compound mitre saw before, but you need to be aware that you need to check the blade for square against the rear fence and table before you make any cuts - itís not certain that it will be set up square out the factory - they are supposed to be, but not guaranteed to be accurate.

Additionally they have a maximum crosscut width (I cannot find anything against this specific model), depending on the timbers you are cutting you may find this not wide enough for baseboard plywood sheets.

Similarly they also have a maximum depth of cut - you shouldnít have any issues cutting say 2x2 3x2 3x1 4x1 but anything greater youíll need to find out the maximum cross & depth cuts of the saw.

Be prepared for lots of sawdust, the built in dust bags catch a Ďlittleí bit but to be honest itís hardly any, I use a Henry hoover attached to my evolution saw for dust extraction and although it collect quite a lot compared to the bag - there is always loads extra to clean up afterwards.

Anyway thought Iíd just share with you, just in case youíve never had one of these before and wanted you to be aware before you splash out £ís on something that might not do what youíre expecting it to do..

Cheers Derek

Hi Derek,
Many thanks for that, a really good insight. I have not had a compound mitre saw before - have Black & Decker circular saw and assumed it would be fairly similar, just more strictly controlled and on a stand!  I had wondered about the maximum crosscut when I pulled the one in B&W out to maximum width it seemed to be about 4-5 inches, but looking at the picture I took on the phone of the detail card:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/6338-160220205901.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=87574)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/6338-160220205929.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=87576)

This suggest the crosscut is about a foot, although I've read on the web that MacAlistair (which is presume is a B&Q own brand) are awful for spares, so that may not be the best option!

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 16, 2020, 09:18:37 PM
To give people an idea of what I am thinking, this is Treeton South Junction in the same period - with 47333 on 26th May 1982

(https://live.staticflickr.com/8447/7913274064_ccf6562b41_k.jpg)
Linked from Flickr - Chris Davis - https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_davis_photos/7913274064 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_davis_photos/7913274064)

The 47 was the view looking north, the former lines to Tinsley curving to the left, while the main line to Rotherham Central went straight on.

While the view to the south included a couple of sidings for berthing mineral wagons:
Again, linked from Flicker - John Turner - https://flic.kr/p/dg4hPT (https://flic.kr/p/dg4hPT)

The track layout will be changed slightly in the latter view in that the two sidings on the far right will be removed, with the slow line continuing under the bridge.

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: exmouthcraig on February 16, 2020, 09:27:08 PM
Wouldn't worry too much about supply of spares Rich.

310 x 65mm cut will be more than adequate for most diy usage. Blades will last plenty of cuts unless you hit something other then wood.

Looks a pretty decent bit of kit for £90
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: degsy_safc on February 16, 2020, 10:49:27 PM
Hi Derek,
Many thanks for that, a really good insight. I have not had a compound mitre saw before - have Black & Decker circular saw and assumed it would be fairly similar, just more strictly controlled and on a stand!  I had wondered about the maximum crosscut when I pulled the one in B&W out to maximum width it seemed to be about 4-5 inches, but looking at the picture I took on the phone of the detail card:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/6338-160220205901.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=87574)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/6338-160220205929.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=87576)

This suggest the crosscut is about a foot, although I've read on the web that MacAlistair (which is presume is a B&Q own brand) are awful for spares, so that may not be the best option!

Rich
Hi Rich,

No worries, the spec from your picture does suggest that max cross cut will be 310mm (like you say 1.25 feet) and about 2.5 inches deep so more than fine for supporting battens. It does have a dust extraction port - this is where the bag attaches, can be seen on your picture  - if you have an old hoover may be good to hook it up to that, may need an adapter tube but pretty cheap. Donít use a Ďgoodí everyday hoover though, there is a lot of sawdust going in there.

I know we all like to think about future proofing, but to be honest if you take care of the saw (clean after use etc) it should keep going for a good while so the need for spares is probably insignificant. Changing the standard blade is something you may want to do for a finer cut (more teeth / inch) but you have to buy same size I.e 210mm with a 30mm bore, look for something with maybe 42 teeth / inch, doesnít need to be a MacAllister blade though, just make sure you mount it the right way round, most have an arrow to show direction of travel.

Firstly - if you are doing an angled cut (blade on say 45 degrees slope to the left, the left lower fence needs to be slid in a left direction, otherwise youíll cut straight through it, there should be a nut on the back to allow it to slide out the way...

When you do your cuts remember to take into consideration the kerf of the blade (thickness) - so if you mark a pencil line and you drop the blade to the line the left side of the blade will generally be your final cut. So if you put the blade right on the line the cut will be shorter than desired.

Always let the blade slow down to a stop after the cut, before you remove your piece, if you lift the blade prematurely the waste can be fired out the back at a ridiculous speed (google YouTube mitre saw hints and tips) Donít rush the cut, perform a nice and smooth down then forward motion. Be very very wary of small pieces, your fingers will be very close to the blade - not recommended.

Probably one of the best bits of kit Iíve ever bought, along with my track saw, but equally something to be very careful when using.

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: Bealman on February 16, 2020, 11:02:45 PM
Good to learn you're going with open frame. Gives you lots of flexibility with scenery.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: njee20 on February 16, 2020, 11:11:13 PM
Look forward to watching this develop! Having dabbled in handbuilt track Iím definitely Ďall iní next time around, albeit n gauge turnouts with 2FS plain track, too much stock go re-wheel!
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: Bealman on February 16, 2020, 11:44:51 PM
Yes, replacing wheels on a large amount of stock would definitely be a limiting factor.

I read the Blueball Summit article in a recent MRJ, and was surprised but impressed that standard N gauge stock ran on the trackwork no problems.

So it can be done!
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: JasonBz on February 17, 2020, 12:22:30 AM
If you are still in the market for a Chop Saw, may I recommend those made by Evolution?
They are very good, not expensive and, best of all, the company is based just down the line from Treeton Junction :)
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 17, 2020, 01:03:50 AM
No worries, the spec from your picture does suggest that max cross cut will be 310mm (like you say 1.25 feet) and about 2.5 inches deep so more than fine for supporting battens.

Changing the standard blade is something you may want to do for a finer cut (more teeth / inch) but you have to buy same size I.e 210mm with a 30mm bore, look for something with maybe 42 teeth / inch, doesnít need to be a MacAllister blade though, just make sure you mount it the right way round, most have an arrow to show direction of travel.

Derek,
Thanks again for the detailed response, some really useful hints/tips and thoughts in there. Iíve printed it off for reference! Iíll certainly look at the blade options, before I purchase one.

Good to learn you're going with open frame. Gives you lots of flexibility with scenery.  :thumbsup:

Cheers. Itís another learning curve, but as part of the main line will decrease in height, to allow the branch to pass over the top, I think it will be well worth the effort. One thing I have got to work out are the gradients. I am going to try and minimise things by having one rise up 50% of the height, and one drop down. I suspect Iíll need to do som testing to see what a Class 47 or 56 with 28HAA wagons can manage. I think that will be the longest/heaviest train.

Look forward to watching this develop! Having dabbled in handbuilt track Iím definitely Ďall iní next time around, albeit n gauge turnouts with 2FS plain track, too much stock go re-wheel!

Thanks! I have Ďhummedí and Ďarrrghedí over it. My local 2mm Association Area Group are fantastic with help and support (as well as encouragement) so it made that decision a bit easier. Yes the rewheeling is a pain, but we spend so much on locos and wagons these days that I came to the conclusion it was a minor issue, just means saving up a little longer for things! Plus withvdeciding to handbuilt the points and trackwork, I had a little voice constantly questioning the logic of staying with N Gauge! I am lucky in that respect, that fleetwise is currently about 40 wagons, two DMUs and two Class 56s! So not much rewheeling to start with.

I read the Blueball Summit article in a recent MRJ, and was surprised but impressed that standard N gauge stock ran on the trackwork no problems.

So it can be done!

Iíll have to take a look at that. Iíd have thought the flanges through the pointwork would have caused issues?

If you are still in the market for a Chop Saw, may I recommend those made by Evolution?
They are very good, not expensive and, best of all, the company is based just down the line from Treeton Junction :)

Cheers Jason, iíll take a look. To be honest the MacAllister one was only the second one iíve looked at, so recommendations are welcome.

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: njee20 on February 17, 2020, 10:04:05 AM
Blueball Summit is 2FS plain track with N gauge gauge pointwork (which is what I'm sold on). 9.42mm plain track is fine with N gauge wheels, it's only the pointwork which causes problems, and you can just gradually close the gauge to 9mm.
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 17, 2020, 12:24:19 PM
Blueball Summit is 2FS plain track with N gauge gauge pointwork (which is what I'm sold on). 9.42mm plain track is fine with N gauge wheels, it's only the pointwork which causes problems, and you can just gradually close the gauge to 9mm.

Ah that make sense, yes N gauge rolling stock should work fine on the 2FS plain track - no disrespect to Wayne in anyway, but the 2FS version is slightly cheaper than the Finetrax plain as well, which is genuine thought if you've got several metres to sort out.

Having now put several lengths together, the 2mm Association jig is really easy to use and the result is quick and good - just remember to lightly file the end of the rail so it slides in well, oh and get it the right way up.  That saves much bad language after you discover what you've been doing for the past 10 minutes was upside down!  :veryangry:  :veryangry:

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 17, 2020, 12:31:44 PM
If you are still in the market for a Chop Saw, may I recommend those made by Evolution?
They are very good, not expensive and, best of all, the company is based just down the line from Treeton Junction :)

Jason,
Thanks for the pointer on these.  They certainly look good machines and well produced.  I am in a little of a quandary as to which way to go now!  The machine that has the equivalent  cutting width and depth to the one in B&W is this R255-SMS+ model (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r255sms_plus/ (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r255sms_plus/)) but that's taking the cost to around the £150 at some places (or £190RRP).  For what I am going to use it on I am not sure thats justified? 

Which begs two questions, a) do I need to go to 300mm width and b) if not, is it better to keep the price down and stick to the MacAlistair, or is the Evolution a better quality, in which case go for something like the R185-SMS+ (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r185sms_plus/ (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r185sms_plus/)) which is around £100 in stores (£130 RRP).  That has a cross cut of 210mm x 56m.  I like that the Evolution ones have the ability to acquire the base in the future, which could be a better option than a workmate that I was thinking of.

I appreciate we're getting away from railways slightly with this query, but to anyone who has one of these type of saws that you've used for baseboard construction - any thoughts?

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: JasonBz on February 17, 2020, 09:09:34 PM
They have expanded and altered thier range since I bought mine a few years ago.

Mine is a Evolution Rage 3 - its not a sliding saw. just a chop saw but it cuts most things (and materials!) I have ever tried it with.
 I have also got a "proper" table saw (and a a jig saw or two and circular saws and hand saws..... )
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: degsy_safc on February 17, 2020, 09:45:50 PM
They certainly look good machines and well produced.  I am in a little of a quandary as to which way to go now!  The machine that has the equivalent  cutting width and depth to the one in B&W is this R255-SMS+ model (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r255sms_plus/ (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r255sms_plus/)) but that's taking the cost to around the £150 at some places (or £190RRP).  For what I am going to use it on I am not sure thats justified?

Hi Rich,

This evolution saw you link to here is the exact model I have - itís a good saw for sure, I use it for all sorts of small woodwork projects. Have made hexagonal wall shelves, tea trays, chopping boards and also for cutting mitres on  backmould for a small job in the house. It will get you very nice cuts for the baseboard frame. Itís cuts more than wood, it cuts metal with the same blade as you use for cutting wood.

Which begs two questions, a) do I need to go to 300mm width and b) if not, is it better to keep the price down and stick to the MacAlistair, or is the Evolution a better quality, in which case go for something like the R185-SMS+ (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r185sms_plus/ (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r185sms_plus/)) which is around £100 in stores (£130 RRP).  That has a cross cut of 210mm x 56m.  I like that the Evolution ones have the ability to acquire the base in the future, which could be a better option than a workmate that I was thinking of?

Will your open frame baseboard have plywood sections of up to 300mm - if so then you can use it for cutting those, but only the ends not the long runs. Additionally youíll be able to bevel cut those ends, so if you have a gradient to angle to another section of ply youíll be able to cut that with the saw as long as itís less than 300mm.

The evolution 255 sms comes with an adjustable laser (in the sense that if itís not square you can adjust it, bit fiddly but it can be done) which can be a handy guide when you are making your cuts. My saw blade was not square out of the factory - you need a small engineers square and small 45 degree set square to ensure that you can square the blade properly, donít go off the marked scale mine is slightly off.

I have the evolution stand, it was £49 and is superb in my opinion, better than trying to use it on the floor. The saw is locked into position at a nice comfortable height, and the ends are adjustable to hold longer sections of wood. Based on the fittings, and how the saw fits to the locking levers Iím pretty sure you could use the same stand with multiple makes of saw.

Donít forget what I said the other night - the evolution produces a lot of sawdust, even though I have a Henry hoover attached to the dust extraction port.

If you donít think youíll be making any cuts at 300mm go for the smaller blade, that probably doesnít have a laser, but you can align the blade to the line before you press the start button.

If you think it will be just cuts on bracing timbers, why not just buy a mitre box and tenon saw to get 90 degree cuts - remember to always cut on the waste side of your line, measure twice and use a sharp marking pencil for accuracy.

You can still cut short with the compound mitre saw by putting the blade on the line which means the kerf will take away maybe 1mm of wood you donít want to cut ..

Hope this helps - if you have any more questions fire away

Cheers Derek

Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 18, 2020, 12:44:47 PM
@JasonBz (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4585) and @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) - Thanks for that.  Im going to sit and ponder that one for a few days.  One of the things that attracted me to these saws was the ability to get a perfect straight saw line.  Something that can (but not easily I find) be achieved with a circular saw.  But Jason's comment about a table saw has also set me thinking. 

I am planning on 9mm for the sides and cross bearers, with 18mm at the outer ends.  I am assuming something like an 8' x 4' sheet will be the most cost effective so given that I can get the wood cut at the merchants into more manageable pieces, it has occurred to me whether a table saw might be the better option.  The Evolution ones can still be tilted to give a slope for the track level on the grade.  Im thinking aloud at this point, but I think it will come down to either a table saw or the R255SMS+ and stand.

Grades
That brings me to another query, there is a point where the main lines will drop down with the branch running over the top. Im working on 1-in-60/1-in-70 for the grades, with the branch rising little higher than the main line will drop if that makes sense.  But what is the generally accepted gap in 2mm between the top of the loco and the bottom of the board above?  Im thinking of the bridge structure?

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: Newportnobby on February 18, 2020, 12:50:05 PM
But what is the generally accepted gap in 2mm between the top of the loco and the bottom of the board above?  Im thinking of the bridge structure?


With code 55 track on 1.5mm commercial grade rubber I found the nominal 44mm planed timber known as 2" x 1" was fine clearance wise for my steam and diseasel stock but wouldn't recommend it for anything with pantographs :no:
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 18, 2020, 02:53:49 PM
With code 55 track on 1.5mm commercial grade rubber I found the nominal 44mm planed timber known as 2" x 1" was fine clearance wise for my steam and diseasel stock but wouldn't recommend it for anything with pantographs :no:

Thanks - So if I work on around 45mm from the baseboard height of the lower level, to the bottom of the top level baseboard, it should be a nicely apportioned gap shouldn't it. Im thinking that I need to leave room for the bridge steelwork or brick arch.
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: crewearpley40 on February 18, 2020, 03:05:09 PM
It's a method mick the moderator knows and I have used myself.
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: degsy_safc on February 18, 2020, 04:20:12 PM
With code 55 track on 1.5mm commercial grade rubber I found the nominal 44mm planed timber known as 2" x 1" was fine clearance wise for my steam and diseasel stock but wouldn't recommend it for anything with pantographs :no:

Thanks - So if I work on around 45mm from the baseboard height of the lower level, to the bottom of the top level baseboard, it should be a nicely apportioned gap shouldn't it. Im thinking that I need to leave room for the bridge steelwork or brick arch.

I donít know this as Iím a total newbie where n guage is concerned but will 45mm leave enough clearance for point motors if you have any points on the branch line? If you do then a larger clearance may be necessary?

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 18, 2020, 05:03:06 PM
I donít know this as Iím a total newbie where n guage is concerned but will 45mm leave enough clearance for point motors if you have any points on the branch line? If you do then a larger clearance may be necessary?
Cheers Derek

Hi Derek,
Thanks for the thought. That should be ok, as the lower level will cross on something like a 45 degree crossing and there won't be any points on the bridge itself.  Just after yes, but the servos will be well clear of the bridge area.

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 22, 2020, 01:16:48 AM
 :veryangry: Just thought id post a quick update - unfortunately my PC laptop died during the week, so until it is replaced, there's no more working on Templot! I am hoping to resolve it in the next week or so, as soon as I have time, then I can progress further.  Good job I backed everything up to a USB key last weekend!

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: degsy_safc on February 22, 2020, 10:36:57 AM
:veryangry: Just thought id post a quick update - unfortunately my PC laptop died during the week, so until it is replaced, there's no more working on Templot! I am hoping to resolve it in the next week or so, as soon as I have time, then I can progress further.  Good job I backed everything up to a USB key last weekend!

Rich

Good luck with the laptop situation Rich..

Backups are key, I do a bit of wildlife photography and lost quite a lot of images a few years back when a hard drive failed. Have auto backup now using the Mac Timemachine and also a cloner program for my photos..

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on February 22, 2020, 08:35:26 PM
Good luck with the laptop situation Rich..

Backups are key, I do a bit of wildlife photography and lost quite a lot of images a few years back when a hard drive failed. Have auto backup now using the Mac Timemachine and also a cloner program for my photos..

Cheers Derek

Thanks Derek,
Im the same, the iMac is backed up on TimeMachine to an 12TB external drive, and as I'm a photographer - all of the images are handled the same way - I also use Backblaze (https://secure.backblaze.com/r/01a7xw) which at £80 for two years with no limit on the amount of data that can be backed up, also gives a really good offsite option!

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on March 09, 2020, 10:58:20 PM
Evening all,
Well im making a bit of progress in that the parts for the new PC build have arrived, so task this weekend is to build it, and get it up and running.  Then I can get back to my Templot design.  I have managed to do a bit of work on another trial point build which is coming together quite well. I'll try and post some pictures later in the week. 

I have also acquired another two locomotives for the layout - only trouble is they seem to be early 1990s West Coast electrics, rather than 1980s South Yorkshire diesels....  :veryangry: :censored:  So not really sticking to my proposed game plan here as that now makes 2x56, 86, 87, 2x90 and 2x108s  :o  my credit card may also suggest I've committed to a couple of Class 26s ..... Maybe I've spent too long looking at old WCML/Scottish videos lately  :confusedsign:

Still this hobby is all about fun isn't it, I just really want to get some track down and enjoy it!

Rich
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: degsy_safc on March 10, 2020, 11:06:47 PM
Hi Rich,

Great to hear that the pc issues are coming to an end. Looking forward to seeing some pictures of your layout and progress to date. Your stock is growing nicely, personally I need to start building up a collection too..

Good luck and have fun..

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
Post by: MarshLane on March 10, 2020, 11:42:47 PM
Thought I would pop a quick picture on, just to show things are moving forward.  The Class 87 and 90 arrived in the post this morning, unfortunately both were slightly damaged in transit, nothing that cannot be fixed, especially as I am going to detail each, but it has not detracted from two nice models. Need to put a couple of metre-lengths down and test them, but they look nice. 

The Virgin-liveried example I have had a for a while this one will be the first to be detailed, upgraded to DCC and have the wheel sets converted to 2mm Finescale.  I am also planning on doing a repaint into IC Mainline colours as part of that work, but whether I do that or send it off, is question I have yet to answer.
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