N Gauge Forum

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Madann01 on January 17, 2020, 10:44:52 AM

Title: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Madann01 on January 17, 2020, 10:44:52 AM
  Spent most of yesterday looking to purchase some fairly basic items, which would allow me to continue with the next phase of constucting my layout, I was supprised to find the amount of items either 'out of stock', 'on order' or 'Pre-order',
  I can understand locos and the like being advertised ahead of release and pre ordered, but these don't affect the construction process. I am very much an impulse modeller and once deciding to have a session or two I would like to think I could acquire goods fairly quickly.
   There are not many model shops locally that stock n gauge in any great volume, and rely mainly on ordering  from the retailers on-line, but all of these seem to be struggling to supply certain items. I assume that this is a manufacturer's issue as the same items seem to be out of stock or on order at most retailers,
  I finally put together a order on line late last evening, paid for it, and expecting to receive within 3-4 days, but I awoke to find a email this morning explaining that my order would be dispatched in 10-14 days as some items were ' out of stock'.
  A very, very, frustrating hobby
    :(
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Newportnobby on January 17, 2020, 11:03:39 AM

  I finally put together a order on line late last evening, paid for it, and expecting to receive within 3-4 days, but I awoke to find a email this morning explaining that my order would be dispatched in 10-14 days as some items were ' out of stock'.


That's the worst bit in my book. I've always been of the opinion many shops (and not just model shops) list items they actually have no stock of. Sometimes, even worse, they state they have stock and then you find they don't. I've lost count with, for example, Hattons by seeing the item there on Google and when you actually go to their site it says 'Is the item in stock - no'
Grrrrr :unimpressed:
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Snowwolflair on January 17, 2020, 11:04:13 AM
I think the problem is the shops are not holding stock.  As far as they are concerned it is dead money especially when wholesalers will promise 48 hour delivery.

I use Gaugemaster as the bell weather, as a retailer and wholesaler if they are out of stock there is probably a manufacturer availability problem.

The other thing to bear in mind is that almost all N gauge products are batch produced.  I use TOMIX power chassis in my hand made models and they make them on a two year production cycle so I buy when I see them as the one I want is rarely available on demand.
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: maridunian on January 17, 2020, 11:23:26 AM
It's not just model railways of course. Retail in general now works for just-in-time supplies from wholesalers to retailers, eg food, whereas holding large, diverse stocks in shops eg clothes, doesn't.

It's shoppers who are driving this - we want it all and we want it now. A generation ago there was less choice, less change and less competition so we bought what there was or accepted (& enjoyed the anticipation of?) ordering and waiting.

Mike
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: red_death on January 17, 2020, 12:12:53 PM
Yes, we are too impatient but some of that is down to increased expectations from other sectors eg we see the wonderful benefits that companies like Amazon have brought about (next day delivery or even same day delivery in some cases) and we forget that isn't applicable for every retailer!
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Newportnobby on January 17, 2020, 12:24:12 PM
But if it wasn't shown we wouldn't try and buy it.
I can imagine the outcry if I placed a load of stock on the N'Porium and then when folks paid for it I turned round and said they'd have to wait until I got some stock in.
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Steven B on January 17, 2020, 12:35:04 PM
The likes of Amazon have certainly raised expectations. My first model railway purchases involved sending a cheque in the post and waiting "up to 28 days" for delivery - or for the cheque to be returned because the item ordered is out of stock.

Having to wait an extra week for out of stock items is frustrating, especially if the shop hasn't been upfront about it. Rails of Sheffield indicate which items they will need to order from the manufacturer for example.

What's more frustrating is waiting in limbo for an order to be processed. I've had several with Hattons take three or four days to get from me placing the order to Hattons starting to pick things of the shelf.

Steven B.
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Lawrence on January 17, 2020, 12:41:12 PM
It's not just the hobby, it's across UK industry because everyone is crapping themselves over Brexit.
If I was building a system for a customer last year, and needed some 1000 Bar pressure sensors with 4-20mA output (for example), I could get them in 2 or 3 weeks, now it's 2 or 3 months.
I tried to order an ATEX connector plug for a battery charger on a rig off Thailand, minimum 5 week lead time depending on how busy the agents at either end were.
This last 12 months have seen our lead times triple and quadruple because we can't get parts.

Not just trains I'm afraid
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: joe cassidy on January 17, 2020, 01:04:20 PM
I still prefer ordering stuff by telephone:

- you get instant confirmation that the product is in stock
- mistakes caused by excessive consumption of alcohol can be avoided

The only advantage of internet is that it never closes.
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Madann01 on January 17, 2020, 01:20:43 PM
Thanks to you all for your comments, I am reassured that I am not the only one who finds it frustrating not being able to obtain items easily, I understand the costs involved in stocking vast quantities of expensive items and the retailers have my sympathy in trying to get the balance right between held stock levels and demand. My main gripe is with the manufacturers who release new items advertise how good they are but are unable to supply immediately, are they awaiting sufficient orders from the retailers before producing the item? I have had to compromise on my planned build as unable to buy items that I would like to install as they are unavailable.
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: PLD on January 17, 2020, 02:09:03 PM
Sometimes, even worse, they state they have stock and then you find they don't. I've lost count with, for example, Hattons by seeing the item there on Google and when you actually go to their site it says 'Is the item in stock - no'
Grrrrr :unimpressed:
Can't blame Hattons for that one... the info on their website is correct, it's not their fault that Google's crawlers haven't visited in a while and hence Google's database still shows what was the position last time they visited which even for a site like Hattons (which while busy in the scale of our hobby, is a drop in the ocean of the global web) could have been weeks ago...
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: jpendle on January 17, 2020, 02:35:53 PM
And I think you need to take rolling stock out of the picture completely.

You imply basic construction items, do you have some examples? Or did you mean that unless you can get the rolling stock you want there's no point constructing the next phase?

The only non rolling stock item that I've been trying to buy recently, and have had problems, are Zimo Next18 decoders and each time I've looked they have been out of stock at the UK sellers and the US seller that I sometimes use had just 1 in stock. (BTW I wouldn't expect any US shop to have many in stock as they are king of 'niche' over here).

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Paddy on January 17, 2020, 02:46:33 PM
Yes we are impatient brought on as other say, by our 24x7 lifestyle.  As modellers we are also hit by the lack of local model shops where one could get all those bits and pieces.

This means we have to order online but I have also found that it is very difficult to find one supplier that can fulfill an order.  This means you face multiple delivery charges and before long your pot of paint costs 10!

 :(

Someone mentioned Gaugemaster and I agree they are good,  Another retailer who tends to have a wide range of items in stock is Antics.  They have about half a dozen shops plus a warehouse to fulfill an order from.  Plus their prices are very competitive.

Kind regards

Paddy

Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Newportnobby on January 17, 2020, 03:07:26 PM
I still prefer ordering stuff by telephone:

- you get instant confirmation that the product is in stock
- mistakes caused by excessive consumption of alcohol can be avoided

The only advantage of internet is that it never closes.

I try not to do anything after excessive consumption of alcohol, mainly because I get delivery of something I've already got :-[ :laugh: ;)
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: njee20 on January 17, 2020, 03:14:12 PM
I still prefer ordering stuff by telephone:

- you get instant confirmation that the product is in stock
- mistakes caused by excessive consumption of alcohol can be avoided

The only advantage of internet is that it never closes.

I can't stand talking on the phone, internet all day long for me! Took me about 2 years to place my last order with BR Lines because I couldn't be bothered to phone him, I'd have placed at least 3 orders had he been able to just email a PayPal invoice!

Amazon Prime has certainly recalibrated my expectations - previously 3-5 days was amazing, nowadays I get annoyed if it's not next day, and I resent paying for postage!

I don't mind waiting for orders from most railway suppliers, as I know a lot do it in their spare time, as long as communication is good.
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: red_death on January 17, 2020, 03:36:51 PM
My main gripe is with the manufacturers who release new items advertise how good they are but are unable to supply immediately, are they awaiting sufficient orders from the retailers before producing the item? I have had to compromise on my planned build as unable to buy items that I would like to install as they are unavailable.

OK, as a small manufacturer I can answer some of that:
- most manufacturers don't supply direct to the public but through retailers.
- I'm not sure what examples you are thinking of where a manufacturer has released new items but is unable to supply them immediately to retailers? Manufacturers don't want to hold stock as that is an item that they have paid for but which they haven't been paid for - so I can't imagine a manufacturer not supplying a retailer.
- when manufacturers do supply direct then any delays in sending things out is largely due to capacity.
- if you mean when a manufacturer has developed (but not released) an item then yes they will be waiting for some sort of certainty that if they produce a batch that they will sell them or they are waiting for a production slot at the relevant factory.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Madann01 on January 17, 2020, 03:41:13 PM
Yes we are impatient brought on as other say, by our 24x7 lifestyle.  As modellers we are also hit by the lack of local model shops where one could get all those bits and pieces.

This means we have to order online but I have also found that it is very difficult to find one supplier that can fulfill an order.  This means you face multiple delivery charges and before long your pot of paint costs 10!

 :(

Someone mentioned Gaugemaster and I agree they are good,  Another retailer who tends to have a wide range of items in stock is Antics.  They have about half a dozen shops plus a warehouse to fulfill an order from.  Plus their prices are very competitive.

Kind regards

Paddy


po
And I think you need to take rolling stock out of the picture completely.

You imply basic construction items, do you have some examples? Or did you mean that unless you can get the rolling stock you want there's no point constructing the next phase?

The only non rolling stock item that I've been trying to buy recently, and have had problems, are Zimo Next18 decoders and each time I've looked they have been out of stock at the UK sellers and the US seller that I sometimes use had just 1 in stock. (BTW I wouldn't expect any US shop to have many in stock as they are king of 'niche' over here).

Regards,

John P

And I think you need to take rolling stock out of the picture completely.

You imply basic construction items, do you have some examples? Or did you mean that unless you can get the rolling stock you want there's no point constructing the next phase?

The only non rolling stock item that I've been trying to buy recently, and have had problems, are Zimo Next18 decoders and each time I've looked they have been out of stock at the UK sellers and the US seller that I sometimes use had just 1 in stock. (BTW I wouldn't expect any US shop to have many in stock as they are king of 'niche' over here).

Regards,

John P
  Roiing stock and Locos I can put up with as by the time I construct my modern day layout the liveries will have changed many times over the way the franchises are being dealt with recently.( Another mute point of mine)  The items I wanted t purchase were mainly Peco points and motors, I wanted to buy the new twist lock point motor system along with a finescale double slip point and a few of the new uni frog points, along with a few other minor accessories, The double slip point was out of stock at most places and uni.frog points to pre order along with the point motors, I do like to order from one place at a time not only to save on postage but also to make it worthwhile for the retailer,as mentioned in my original post I spent most of yesterday trying to put together an order that would allow me to carry on constructing, impossible to achieve from one outlet.
 
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: jpendle on January 17, 2020, 03:53:56 PM
  Roiing stock and Locos I can put up with as by the time I construct my modern day layout the liveries will have changed many times over the way the franchises are being dealt with recently.( Another mute point of mine)  The items I wanted t purchase were mainly Peco points and motors, I wanted to buy the new twist lock point motor system along with a finescale double slip point and a few of the new uni frog points, along with a few other minor accessories, The double slip point was out of stock at most places and uni.frog points to pre order along with the point motors, I do like to order from one place at a time not only to save on postage but also to make it worthwhile for the retailer,as mentioned in my original post I spent most of yesterday trying to put together an order that would allow me to carry on constructing, impossible to achieve from one outlet.

Thanks for the clarification. I usually buy everything from Hattons and haven't had any issue with Peco points, BUT I am not buying medium radius points, and I don't use solenoid motors. I suspect that as the Medium Radius points, be they Unifrog or not, are the most popular, they sell out the quickest.

BTW I use Hattons a lot, as they are the only supplier that I am aware of that offer a 'tracked' option for International shipping. I don't mind stuff taking a week to arrive, or longer, but I can't abide not knowing what's going on.

I have 4 orders coming by Airmail rather than a courier, some of which may not have even shipped yet. I have no idea of the status of any of these. As @njee20 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1147) said with Amazon providing updates and tracking our expectations have been set much higher.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: stevewalker on January 18, 2020, 12:23:38 AM
It's not just the hobby, it's across UK industry because everyone is crapping themselves over Brexit.
If I was building a system for a customer last year, and needed some 1000 Bar pressure sensors with 4-20mA output (for example), I could get them in 2 or 3 weeks, now it's 2 or 3 months.

Try ordering pressure sensors to read for 13mBar absolute (yes that's correct), where the instruments have to be in an enclosure at 95C (80 to 85C maximum allowable for most electronics) and under fault condition the process can go to 29Bar gauge and 400C in a few seconds - oh, an the wetted parts have to be Hastelloy. It took me 6 months to get someone to give me a quote! About 6000 a piece IIRC! I only needed 40 or so!
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Snowwolflair on January 18, 2020, 12:26:49 AM
It's not just the hobby, it's across UK industry because everyone is crapping themselves over Brexit.
If I was building a system for a customer last year, and needed some 1000 Bar pressure sensors with 4-20mA output (for example), I could get them in 2 or 3 weeks, now it's 2 or 3 months.

Try ordering pressure sensors to read for 13mBar absolute (yes that's correct), where the instruments have to be in an enclosure at 95C (80 to 85C maximum allowable for most electronics) and under fault condition the process can go to 29Bar gauge and 400C in a few seconds - oh, an the wetted parts have to be Hastelloy. It took me 6 months to get someone to give me a quote! About 6000 a piece IIRC! I only needed 40 or so!

All I can say is that these inflatable dolls are getting so much more sophisticated.   :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Trainfish on January 18, 2020, 01:29:25 AM
I still prefer ordering stuff by telephone:

- you get instant confirmation that the product is in stock
- mistakes caused by excessive consumption of alcohol can be avoided

The only advantage of internet is that it never closes.

I try not to do anything after excessive consumption of alcohol, mainly because I get delivery of something I've already got :-[ :laugh: ;)

I gave up alcohol for that very reason but it didn't work so I just went back to alcohol as it's more fun. For me at least  :beers:
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Madann01 on January 18, 2020, 07:55:02 AM
I still prefer ordering stuff by telephone:

- you get instant confirmation that the product is in stock
- mistakes caused by excessive consumption of alcohol can be avoided

The only advantage of internet is that it never closes.

I try not to do anything after excessive consumption of alcohol, mainly because I get delivery of something I've already got :-[ :laugh: ;)

I gave up alcohol for that very reason but it didn't work so I just went back to alcohol as it's more fun. For me at least  :beers:


Sone sound advice as usual from the members  :thumbsup: Totally ignored by me yesterday afternoon whist formulating a list of consumable to order from Squires on the phone.
 The seemingly never emptying glass containing my daily medicinal  G&T ensured that the list got longer and longer cumulating with an order in the region of 40-50 in total,
However (and I don't know why?) whilst on the phone, I doubled up many of the quantities I had listed possibly thinking that 'whist I'm here' and with the obvious outcome of doubling the bill.
 I was far too polite to backtrack on my order, and so when the order was completed I settled back in my seat and doubled up on my medication to ease the pain. :doh:
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Bealman on January 18, 2020, 08:27:29 AM
Ah, the online ordering. Courier companies here are a dime a dozen now, and the times I come home to find parcels on the doorstep!

Unfortunately sending it all back is a pain. Mrs Bealman didn't like the clothes she'd ordered, (they never look as good as they do in the pictures.....  ;))

So off to the post office I go with the resealable plastic bag....

Oh, and make sure you've printed the bar code and stuck it on there so they can scan it   :worried:
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Lawrence on January 18, 2020, 02:55:44 PM
It's not just the hobby, it's across UK industry because everyone is crapping themselves over Brexit.
If I was building a system for a customer last year, and needed some 1000 Bar pressure sensors with 4-20mA output (for example), I could get them in 2 or 3 weeks, now it's 2 or 3 months.

Try ordering pressure sensors to read for 13mBar absolute

Really couldn't be arsed doing a 5 point cal on that  :( ;D
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: acko22 on January 20, 2020, 09:04:24 AM
Honestly I think we are a bit impatient, but that is just as much to do with how we buy as much as supply!

We use to have to go to model shops to purchase stuff which mean't that shops held much more where as today we can do it order online almost instantly and shops can do the same from manufacturers meaning they will hold less stock.

The one area that does annoy me and maybe makes me a impatient is with rolling stock, not crowdfunding as I understand that takes time due to the need to build up funds etc. It's more Farish and Dapol (Although Dapol has took steps to correct this) when they announce something and well as we all bemoan it doesn't appear for years I am currently wanting some of the Farish class 319s which were announced what 5 years ago?
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 20, 2020, 09:25:39 AM
Yes I agree because you can order on line and get delivery allmost next day and in the case of Union Mills order before 3 oclock and you get it next day .
Then you get people who moan about the length of time other firms take to deliver items even when they are announced ,I dont think people stop and engage their brains before complaining .
I am very greatful for instance to Revolution ,Two guys who have made some fantastic models all done in their own time ,imagine how much work that they have to do when several pallets arrive ,they have to be unpacked sorted into different batches of slngle and multi packs ,then they have to go through orders ,print out delivery notes pack the order post it out ,I wonder how many others would do that .If you stop and think how long each individual order takes then multiply that by a thousand or more and you get to realise the huge task that they have .AND of course they still have full time jobs and families to think of as well .

I cant afford to order a lot but my whole family bought me my Poppylino ,and my son bought me a Molases tank ,and my wife and son have paid for a 56xx loco .and as soon as the Parcels car order book is open Im hoping that between them they can order one for me .
So a huge THANKYOU to Ben and Mike .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: njee20 on January 20, 2020, 09:39:09 AM
The mainstream manufacturers do seem to have gone backward a bit - time was they'd announce things when they were about to hit the market. Then we moved toward 'land grabbing', where by it's more of a statement of intent rather than anything else. There should be no reason for the gestation period of a coach to be measured in years (or even decades), but ultimately it's all just toy trains, so I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist.

Same goes for Revolution et al, although they're up front that it's not a conventional release cycle, yeah ok it may take a few years for stuff to come to fruition, but that's alright. Just gives me more of a chance to decide I need 'just one more' of everything! :doh:
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: Roy L S on January 20, 2020, 10:49:53 AM
I think that we have become too impatient, and to an extent I think that it is because the advent of technology such as the smart-phone means instant access to information and instant communication is pretty much always possible. Another by-product of advances in communication is the emerging of all sorts of forums (in our case modelling) where product information is shared, dissected and analysed (and complained about!). Info is sometimes taken as gospel, when too often it is a by-product of the rumour mill that morphs into "fact".

That said, I do think on the other side, possibly for the same reason, there has been more of a propensity for manufacturers to (as njee20 says) announce models before research has even started ("land grab" is a good description) and then do nothing to progress models for extended periods. From a commercial perspective I get why they do that, but from a consumer perspective it is very frustrating.

Oh for the days when Farish did not announce releases in advance.....but would that even work today?

Roy
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: simonprelude on January 20, 2020, 02:30:42 PM
I preferred the good old days, you went into a shop asked what they had in stock and chose items and purchased them...... it was just the saving up that took the time.
Title: Re: Are we too impatient nowadays?
Post by: PGN on January 20, 2020, 07:06:36 PM
If you think it's difficult managing to obtain model railway supplies online, you should try sourcing a replacement bonnet for a Mercedes 8!!D 7 and a half tonner!

Do a search ... get millions of hits ... and they are ALL for sites that have uploaded the ENTIRE parts catalogue, and after clicking through seventeen billion screens, accepting their cookies, and agreeing to their use of your personal data, and giving them your name and address and date of birth and your mother's dress size in 1973 (well, maybe not that) they finally let you click on the very thing you want ... and they say "This item is out of stock and we don't know when we will next have it in".

Ho hum ...
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