N Gauge Forum

General Category => Crowdfunding => RevolutioN Trains => Topic started by: Tank on November 20, 2019, 08:02:54 PM

Title: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Tank on November 20, 2019, 08:02:54 PM
Revolution goes radioactive!

Revolution Trains is unveiling plans to offer two types of nuclear wagons in British N-gauge 1:148 scale at the Warley National Model Railway exhibition at the NEC this year.

First up is the giant KUA four-bogie 150t flask wagon designed to carry spent nuclear fuel from Royal Navy nuclear submarines from their bases at Devonport and Rosyth to Sellafield for disposal.

There are two of these behemoths in service – MODA 95770 and MODA 95771 – and they were built by Bombardier/Prorail of Wakefield and introduced in 1998.

Nowadays when loaded they are always accompanied by DRS courier coaches carrying elite protection teams – often Royal Marines or similarly trained Army units - and frequently double headed to allow for the failure of a locomotive.

The Royal Navy still has numerous retired but fully-fuelled nuclear submarines in southern England and Scotland and these wagons are expected to see ongoing use for years to come.

These models are not crowdfunded but will be available to order from Revolution shortly with a guide price of around £75.

Revolution’s Mike Hale said: “These wagons are sure to be an eye-catcher on any layout, and with complementary DRS locomotives and courier coaches already released by Dapol and Graham Farish, offer virtually a complete train in a box.”

To accompany the KUA wagons, Revolution is teaming up again with highly-regarded Irish manufacturer Accurascale to shrink their very popular PFA 4-wheel container flat down to N.

The PFAs were built by Standard Wagon Co. in 1986 for containerised coal traffic in distinctive Cawoods or British Fuels open containers but have also seen use on gypsum trains.

In the early 2000s several were acquired by DRS for use as runner wagons and to carry low-level nuclear waste – such as contaminated clothing, wiping rags, tools or medical disposables - from power stations and other nuclear facilities to Drigg, about 4 miles south of Sellafield, in Cumbria.

The models will be based on Accurascale’s 4mm version and incorporate a diecast deck section for weight.

Revolution is also proposing the distinctive half-height low level waste containers, and if there is adequate demand the open-topped coal containers and ribbed gypsum containers that characterised the services these wagons were used on.

Revolution’s Ben Ando added: “We want N gauge modellers to have the same opportunities to model interesting trains as their 00 counterparts and the synergy we have developed with our friends at Accurascale means that, with the ongoing support of our customers, we can help to make this happen.”


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/2-201119193956.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=84171)
Photo credit to Antony Christie.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/2-201119194111.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=84173)
Photo credit to Paul J Berry.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2019, 08:05:54 PM
Hello all,

Thanks Chris for posting this.

CAD for the model is complete and it is in tooling.  We are expecting samples just after Christmas.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/94-201119201619-841691187.jpeg)

There'll be more information on the Revolution website, but we wanted NGF readers to have the jump!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: njee20 on November 20, 2019, 08:46:48 PM
Ooo, KUA is interesting!

Good shout on the PFA too. Not one for me, but good nonetheless. Given you’re downsizing Accurascale’s range can we expect a Revolution 37 soon?! ;)
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Roy L S on November 20, 2019, 08:51:52 PM
Not one for me, but what a seriously cool looking wagon!

Roy
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 20, 2019, 09:02:37 PM
Should have seen this coming (it’s big enough!).

If can justify one (and then the coaches and DRS locos), will be tempted.

Very cool.

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Graham on November 20, 2019, 09:13:04 PM
this will go very nicely with my DRS locos, will have to have one of these.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: jpendle on November 20, 2019, 09:21:39 PM
Will the KUA go round Settrack curves?  :D

Coat, hat, I'm off

Must have one of these for my layout.

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: gc4946 on November 20, 2019, 09:55:19 PM
Two great subjects to model ...

The 16-wheeler nuclear flask is pure novelty, the PFA fills a gap in coal traffic as well as other mineral flows
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: RailGooner on November 20, 2019, 09:57:31 PM
:bounce:
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: captainelectra on November 20, 2019, 10:01:10 PM
Although I prefer the sectorisation era, I must have one of these!

By a remarkable co-incidence, Electra has just received permission to reproduce DRS livery for coaches.  :) Glowing with pride!
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2019, 10:21:19 PM
Will the KUA go round Settrack curves?  :D

John P

Hi John,

The quad bogie design, with each pair of bogies on a pivoting sub-frame, makes for a remarkably mobile design.  I suspect they were designed this way in part to ensure they could cope with some of the tighter curves in docks and MoD sites.

It has been designed to cope with Peco Setrack R2 - which is far tighter even than anything found in MoD yards - though when we receive a sample we will be able to test it fully and see if it can do better.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: JPTRAIN on November 20, 2019, 10:28:43 PM
Excellent, and easy buy for me, just too interesting not to have a couple to run round
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: jpendle on November 20, 2019, 11:01:17 PM
Will the KUA go round Settrack curves?  :D

John P

Hi John,

The quad bogie design, with each pair of bogies on a pivoting sub-frame, makes for a remarkably mobile design.  I suspect they were designed this way in part to ensure they could cope with some of the tighter curves in docks and MoD sites.

It has been designed to cope with Peco Setrack R2 - which is far tighter even than anything found in MoD yards - though when we receive a sample we will be able to test it fully and see if it can do better.

cheers

Ben A.

Well that was meant to be a joke, as I don't have any setrack, curves or straights  :doh:

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: jpendle on November 20, 2019, 11:07:15 PM
Now a more serious question.

Is the Farish Mk2A  BSO in DRS livery the escort coach? And is there just the one coach, or is there a second model out there somewhere?

Thanks,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 20, 2019, 11:24:24 PM
One KUA (possibly two) for the novelty and quite a few PFAs with various load options especially with open containers.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on November 21, 2019, 12:14:40 AM
Now a more serious question.

Is the Farish Mk2A  BSO in DRS livery the escort coach? And is there just the one coach, or is there a second model out there somewhere?

Thanks,

John P

Hi John,

I believe Farish have now done two versions of the Escort coaches, 374-681 (9419) and 374-681A (9428.)

I don't know exactly how many different escort vehicles there are in the real fleet; we saw four when we were at Kingmoor to measure the KUA; two were aircon Mk2s (not sure which type) and two were Mk2As as modelled by Farish. 

The Farish models, correctly, have the large windows in each end and no gangway.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 21, 2019, 12:30:55 AM
Now a more serious question.

Is the Farish Mk2A  BSO in DRS livery the escort coach? And is there just the one coach, or is there a second model out there somewhere?

Thanks,

John P

Hi John,

I believe Farish have now done two versions of the Escort coaches, 374-681 (9419) and 374-681A (9428.)

I don't know exactly how many different escort vehicles there are in the real fleet; we saw four when we were at Kingmoor to measure the KUA; two were aircon Mk2s (not sure which type) and two were Mk2As as modelled by Farish. 

The Farish models, correctly, have the large windows in each end and no gangway.

Cheers

Ben A.

I just picked up the pair on ebay for a very good price  :)
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: crewearpley40 on November 21, 2019, 02:24:45 AM
I have seen photos on flickr, tauntontrains.co.uk, totnestrains.co.uk ,the escort coaches / support coaches 9410, 9419 and 9428 are indeed mk2a bsos that accompany the flasks in consists from keyham devonport to crewe and back and onward to sellafield. For naval nuclear submarine spent fuel . Looks a superb model.just many congratulations to the team at revolution !
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Smiffy on November 21, 2019, 06:25:30 AM
Very nice.  Will be in for both KUAs, the low level waste PFAs and containers.
Thanks
Iain
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Western Exile on November 21, 2019, 07:00:47 AM
Did the PFA announcement get leaked too early, or will there be another N gauge announcement tomorrow evening? I ask because the Revolution Trains website does not mention the PFA yet.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on November 21, 2019, 08:50:12 AM

Hi Western Exile,

Yes, for the website we are splitting it to focus more on each type separately.

The press release I sent out mentioned both types to avoid sending out too many separate documents!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Smiffy on November 21, 2019, 10:36:33 AM

Hi Western Exile,

Yes, for the website we are splitting it to focus more on each type separately.

The press release I sent out mentioned both types to avoid sending out too many separate documents!

Cheers

Ben A.

A relief and a disappointment 🤪
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: emjaybee on November 21, 2019, 11:19:13 AM
An interesting choice.

On the upside, I'll only have to worry about saving for my Beyer-Garratt.

Best of luck with the new project.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Dickydcc on November 21, 2019, 12:38:00 PM
They do look great models & with the coaches & a pair of locos would make an interesting train. However, even with my bending of history they are far to late for Thetford Rd.

Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Steven B on November 21, 2019, 01:17:16 PM
I can hear the OO Modellers asking for one already!

Another post 1990s model though - I'm not sure if I should be upset it doesn't fit my late 1980s time frame, or pleased as the only dents in my bank ballance will be from the Sturgeons and class 128s...

I'm not suprised about the PFA. A rake of these fits in nicely with my modelling location and period - perfect! I'm not sure if it'll be worth replacing my 28 C=Rail kits though. Perhaps I need a loaded and unloaded train as per my HAAs...

Talking of C=Rail, an you twist an arm or two and get some Greater Manchester Binliner containers done for the KFA?

Steven B.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 21, 2019, 01:21:36 PM
Quote
I can hear the OO Modellers asking for one already!

(Minor thread drift)

Already being proposed / offered by KR Models (sane outfit doing 00 GT3) in 00, with the option of DCC sliding covers no less!

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on November 21, 2019, 01:52:41 PM
Already being proposed / offered by KR Models (sane outfit doing 00 GT3) in 00, with the option of DCC sliding covers no less!

Skyline2uk

My understanding is that the KR Models proposal has been cancelled.

Also, the wagon they showed in CAD is significantly different to the ones we are offering and not associated with MoD traffic.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 21, 2019, 01:56:43 PM
Already being proposed / offered by KR Models (sane outfit doing 00 GT3) in 00, with the option of DCC sliding covers no less!

Skyline2uk

My understanding is that the KR Models proposal has been cancelled.

Also, the wagon they showed in CAD is significantly different to the ones we are offering and not associated with MoD traffic.

Cheers

Ben A.

Thanks Ben, everyday a school day etc

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: crewearpley40 on November 21, 2019, 02:01:32 PM
Thank you for clarifying matters
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: jpendle on November 21, 2019, 02:06:16 PM

Talking of C=Rail, an you twist an arm or two and get some Greater Manchester Binliner containers done for the KFA?

Steven B.

No No No No!!!!

Do the Knowsley binliners instead.

No, do the Bristol ones.

That's rubbish (see what I did there), we need the Edinburgh ones even more.

Joking aside, I think a kit with different overlays/bits for the ribbing on the sides would perhaps be the best plan. As far as I can tell all the various binliner containers around the country are all different. The main things they have in common are that they are all 20' and they are all plain blue.

Anyway we are getting off topic.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: njee20 on November 21, 2019, 02:08:26 PM
Quote
I can hear the OO Modellers asking for one already!

(Minor thread drift)

Already being proposed / offered by KR Models (sane outfit doing 00 GT3) in 00, with the option of DCC sliding covers no less!

At risk of continuing that tangent yes, it was never clear, despite repeated asking, which wagon Keith was actually doing, as the CADs shown were a hybrid of two different types. It was then cancelled, whether this was directly related I'm not sure!
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Suffolk Rob on November 21, 2019, 04:28:15 PM
Hi Ben

Another great announcement that I didn't know I wanted 'til I read about the Dounray traffic. Do you, or anyone else happen to know if they run with the Escort coaches to Georgemas, I'm assuming they might not as not MOD traffic?

Many thanks

Rob
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Western Exile on November 21, 2019, 04:31:36 PM
Hi Ben

Another great announcement that I didn't know I wanted 'til I read about the Dounray traffic. Do you, or anyone else happen to know if they run with the Escort coaches to Georgemas, I'm assuming they might not as not MOD traffic?

Many thanks

Rob

This picture would suggest yes:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/31115621@N04/26567178412/in/photolist-safsgL-ZUVHtE-pnvnQE-rma9WC-oUzemk-rfmWxg-jbJS8U-ntNdH7-cDomTG-cDohVw-U23gv6-oUviJM-p8nMjW-jhyw8A-e7eZiF-cDobgy-cDo7DS-cDo5uh-jhyAou-nfJBGq-nfJzSd-ebsic6-GtDJyd-2gz3fvK-jhAY9m-cDooY1-cDodm9-cDof3m-cDo9g5-2gz3eYH (https://www.flickr.com/photos/31115621@N04/26567178412/in/photolist-safsgL-ZUVHtE-pnvnQE-rma9WC-oUzemk-rfmWxg-jbJS8U-ntNdH7-cDomTG-cDohVw-U23gv6-oUviJM-p8nMjW-jhyw8A-e7eZiF-cDobgy-cDo7DS-cDo5uh-jhyAou-nfJBGq-nfJzSd-ebsic6-GtDJyd-2gz3fvK-jhAY9m-cDooY1-cDodm9-cDof3m-cDo9g5-2gz3eYH)

At least once, anyway.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Suffolk Rob on November 21, 2019, 04:39:56 PM
Many Thanks Western Exile

Of course I could have studied the Revolution sample formations properly, hadn't noticed the Georgemas example!

Rob
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: crewearpley40 on November 21, 2019, 04:41:18 PM
would this link help :
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=26627.30 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=26627.30)


its a topic that has been discussed before. would agree with western exile 's comments, I was just searching for a couple of ideas, you beat me to it. happy modelling
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: rusticged on November 21, 2019, 05:13:32 PM
This is wonderful!
Thanks Ben & Mike. KUAs & PFAs for me.
Fortunately, I already have DRS locos and Mk2 coaches.
Have a great show gents!! See you in Scotland.
All the Best,
Ged.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Western Exile on November 21, 2019, 07:13:09 PM
Because they are such interesting wagons, I’m going to apply a liberal dose of modeller's licence to get a pair. The models being produced are too modern for my purposes but I think they look close enough to these wagons that were around a bit earlier justify the purchase:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35663521@N04/4251684773/in/photolist-7tGZKT-nm4Dtm-T3nEze-RBgV9h-D2PMHg-D79aQN-T32JXH-D79nEE-DrCiZF-nkF455-UbozNH-Q8v6EJ-DsXZDV-SYnHMb-qSLGXp-D7TAoV-Tg3rx3-SbFtaU-SfZw1M-DK4hcu-SmZV6v-RWXSdU-7hvgjm-DvnvJg-9wu88a-SZBp71-bbjfVk-waGuxs-2e6JGLw-waGbBA-nE4UhM-D2N9mp-DBKdyf-E4RV64-CCLYC1-DpSJg1-ooaDiD-DT3iBE-25dKDcM-DV7SyF-DuTf5g-D6DCcJ-RJKiuT-9Cwt4S-9TFQFY-TddAun-Dv8ae6-D6DjLa-nPTdkv-DgN9qU (https://www.flickr.com/photos/35663521@N04/4251684773/in/photolist-7tGZKT-nm4Dtm-T3nEze-RBgV9h-D2PMHg-D79aQN-T32JXH-D79nEE-DrCiZF-nkF455-UbozNH-Q8v6EJ-DsXZDV-SYnHMb-qSLGXp-D7TAoV-Tg3rx3-SbFtaU-SfZw1M-DK4hcu-SmZV6v-RWXSdU-7hvgjm-DvnvJg-9wu88a-SZBp71-bbjfVk-waGuxs-2e6JGLw-waGbBA-nE4UhM-D2N9mp-DBKdyf-E4RV64-CCLYC1-DpSJg1-ooaDiD-DT3iBE-25dKDcM-DV7SyF-DuTf5g-D6DCcJ-RJKiuT-9Cwt4S-9TFQFY-TddAun-Dv8ae6-D6DjLa-nPTdkv-DgN9qU)
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Smiffy on November 21, 2019, 08:39:32 PM

Talking of C=Rail, an you twist an arm or two and get some Greater Manchester Binliner containers done for the KFA?

Steven B.

Some Binliners would be a great idea, do any run along the southern end of the WCML?

Regards

Iain
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: crewearpley40 on November 21, 2019, 09:51:24 PM
As far as iknow thereis the binliner  train to calvert north of aylesbury.  Its the dagenham and hillingdon via n london lines to acton, ruislip, calvert other flows northenden to roxby.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Steven B on November 22, 2019, 09:03:28 AM
As far as I can tell all the various binliner containers around the country are all different. The main things they have in common are that they are all 20' and they are all plain blue.

Appart from the Greater Manchester binliner containers which have been to two designs, the first were yellow, the later ones white with yellow ends.

The GM binliners have the advantage that they ran on the Calder Valley line along side Cawoods coaltainers on PFA wagons (although the Revolution KFAs aren't quite the same type as those used by the GM binliners).

Steven B.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: JBQFC on November 22, 2019, 10:40:05 AM
wanted some PFA with coal containers for a long time and will have one or two of the flask wagons

thanks Ben and Mike you are spoiling us

John 
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Railwaygun on November 22, 2019, 10:50:18 AM
Already being proposed / offered by KR Models (sane outfit doing 00 GT3) in 00, with the option of DCC sliding covers no less!

Skyline2uk

My understanding is that the KR Models proposal has been cancelled.

Also, the wagon they showed in CAD is significantly different to the ones we are offering and not associated with MoD traffic.

Cheers

Ben A.

ISTR an HO model of the nuclear wagon ?? French??
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: chrism on November 22, 2019, 11:18:12 AM
ISTR an HO model of the nuclear wagon ?? French??

There's one on a shelf at the club that I was told is French - don't know if it was Hysterically Overscale or 'Orribly Overscale though  :D
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 22, 2019, 11:30:37 AM
Is it me or do I detect an ironic drift from the disposal of military nuclear fuel to the disposal of nappies, and is this a sign of the times  :D
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 22, 2019, 01:53:55 PM
I do not know what the current policy is but back in the 1980s the "submarine" related trains ran as Class 1 passenger trains partly for priority reasons and partly as they were carrying passengers in the form of the security team. They also shared in the 1Xxx reporting number sequence.

I passed a frantic hour one evening cancelling/rescheduling a Derby to Rosyth movement after my boss left his briefcase on the Victoria Line - amongst the documents was the Special Traffic Notice for that night's train. Any nuclear related movement was regarded as very sensitive at the time after one or two highly-publicised protestor incidents affecting spent power station fuel movements.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: red_death on November 22, 2019, 02:22:05 PM
Hello folks

If the KUA is loaded then it always has escort coaches.

The Dounreay trips are because that is where the nuclear submarine test reactors were situated.  The KUAs themselves are owned by the MoD, operated by DRS, designed by Rolls Royce (who built the sub reactors) and built by Bombardier Prorail.

The link shared by Western Exile shows the earlier (IQA) of which there were at least two builds - NTL (a subsidiary of BNFL and the French/Belgian nuclear companies) commissioned an HO model of the earlier version with diamond frame bogies (I have one at home that my mum was given when she worked for BNFL's transport division).  That form of the IQA was relatively short lived in the UK in terms of operations (though there are a batch that ran on mainland Europe and might still do) - DRS still have at least one IQA which is rotting away and has been barely used.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Lankyman on November 22, 2019, 09:07:02 PM
I would love to have a nuclear train of some sort but it would have to be something running under BR in the 1960's. There were plenty of them and we used to see them regularly passing through Preston en route to and from various power stations as well as the Naval traffic.  I can't remember what was used to haul them in those days but I do know that Class 40's were used between Sellafield and Barrow Docks where they were put on John Fisher ships to be transported to and from Japan.

Ron

P.S. I have just been browsing a book about the last 50 years of railways in the Preston area and found a picture of a mixed freight travelling south from Preston in September 1967 hauled by a Britannia Pacific. The first wagon is a nuclear flask wagon painted yellow. I don't remember that or that these things were conveyed in ordinary freight trains at that time. I have a mixed freight and a "Brit" so all I need is a 1960's vintage flask wagon to model a representation of such a train. Is there such a thing?
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: 87023velocity on November 23, 2019, 09:57:42 PM
This will be a seriously impressive model, definitely having one. Need to keep my eyes peeled for a NGS EWS liveried inspection saloon.

Cheers

Simon
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: rusticged on November 24, 2019, 06:28:56 PM
I hope Ben & Mike produce the coal, gypsum and nuclear waste containers to go with the wagons.
Cheers,
Ged.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on November 24, 2019, 10:10:18 PM

Hi Ged,

We intend producing as many different containers as is feasible.  Initially I am sure the low level waste containers and Cawoods will be part of the project.

And buying the wagons unloaded will also be an option.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: rusticged on November 25, 2019, 07:16:28 AM
Brilliant! Thanks Ben. You are both STARS!

Cheers,
Ged.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2019, 11:28:49 AM
The order book is now open: https://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/kua-nuclear-flask-carrier-twin-pack/ (https://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/kua-nuclear-flask-carrier-twin-pack/)

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 26, 2019, 11:39:43 AM
The order book is now open: https://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/kua-nuclear-flask-carrier-twin-pack/ (https://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/kua-nuclear-flask-carrier-twin-pack/)

Cheers Mike

Order placed, when will the PFA's be listed?
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2019, 11:44:47 AM
The PFAs will be listed very soon! Ben and I just need to agree a couple of things.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Railwaygun on November 26, 2019, 01:24:19 PM
Beware that they only seem to sell in pairs  - £139.95 a pop!
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2019, 01:30:07 PM
Correct.  It is a very large wagon with a potentially limited customer base so by selling them as pair we can reduce the unit cost. By comparison I just looked at the Kato railgun which has an RRP of £115 - I don't think that is too incomparable a project.

Our feedback from Warley was that people liked the idea of being able to buy both wagons as a pair, though if someone only wants one then perhaps people can arrange to split packs (or one half can go on ebay).

Cheers Mike

Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Railwaygun on November 26, 2019, 03:56:04 PM
I agree that the price is very reasonable - look at price of Minitrix torpedo slag carrier - £100 or so 2 yrs ago.



Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: geoffc on November 27, 2019, 10:51:50 AM
I would like one, but am not prepared or able to buy two on the off chance I can sell one. I already have a lot on order from Revolution and can not justify the cost of two. A retrograde step in my mind.

Geoff
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 27, 2019, 10:56:27 AM
It should be easy to "find a friend" on the forum to share the purchase.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: red_death on November 27, 2019, 11:03:34 AM
I would like one, but am not prepared or able to buy two on the off chance I can sell one. I already have a lot on order from Revolution and can not justify the cost of two. A retrograde step in my mind.

Hi Geoff

This was a difficult decision, but the choice boiled down to 3 options:
- sell as a pair
- sell singly at a significantly higher price (and significantly increase the risk that we wouldn't meet minimum order numbers)
- not produce the KUAs

Once you narrow it down to that sort of choice then it became clear (to us at least) that the best thing was to offer them as pairs. Sorry that means you feel excluded, but the alternatives would have been no KUA or KUA at a much higher unit cost. When we looked at the size and complexity of the KUAs we think that this is a competitive price for such a beast of a wagon!

Having said all of which sales in the first 24 hours have been very good - thanks to everyone who has supported it!

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Steven B on November 27, 2019, 11:29:16 AM
If the model is out of budgets then this website can give some hints for scratch building:
http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/kua/index.htm (http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/kua/index.htm)

The price of the wagons is certainly high, but compared to the likes of the Class B tanker the price per axle is actually less. It'd be higher still if were a Bachmann or Dapol model.

I think a bigger problem is the rate at which Revolution are anouncing new post-privatisation era models.

Talking to some fellow NGS Yorkshire Area Group members last weekend it was noticable that those modelling the last couple of decades were having to become more choosy over which of the new models they buy. They can't afford train length numbers of all the anounced models at the rate they're currently being anounced, especially as with many models it's a case of buy a train load now or suffer a very high risk of not being able to buy again.

As a sectorisation era modeller I have less of a problem as fewer of Revolution's models fit with where I'm modelling. The PFA container flats do cause some problems though; I already have 20+ of the C=Rail kits and whilst a second train would be nice to have, I can't justify spending upwards of £500 on a rake of wagons all in one go, but with a potentially one off production run I won't be able to spread the cost over a year or two like I was with my rake of HAAs by buying a few at a time every couple of months.



Steven B
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Calnefoxile on November 27, 2019, 11:35:40 AM
If the model is out of budgets then this website can give some hints for scratch building:
[url]http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/kua/index.htm[/url] ([url]http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/kua/index.htm[/url])

Steven B


Also there is a 3D printed version: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16474.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16474.0)

Regards

Neal.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: RailGooner on November 27, 2019, 11:47:52 AM
I would like one, but am not prepared or able to buy two on the off chance I can sell one. I already have a lot on order from Revolution and can not justify the cost of two. A retrograde step in my mind.

Geoff

Geoff, try placing a wanted add in the N'porium. I've helped forum members get an item they couldn't access but I could. Yes, it's a leap of faith and trust but can work.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: exmouthcraig on November 27, 2019, 11:54:51 AM
If the model is out of budgets then this website can give some hints for scratch building:
[url]http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/kua/index.htm[/url] ([url]http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/kua/index.htm[/url])

The price of the wagons is certainly high, but compared to the likes of the Class B tanker the price per axle is actually less. It'd be higher still if were a Bachmann or Dapol model.

I think a bigger problem is the rate at which Revolution are anouncing new post-privatisation era models.

Talking to some fellow NGS Yorkshire Area Group members last weekend it was noticable that those modelling the last couple of decades were having to become more choosy over which of the new models they buy. They can't afford train length numbers of all the anounced models at the rate they're currently being anounced, especially as with many models it's a case of buy a train load now or suffer a very high risk of not being able to buy again.

As a sectorisation era modeller I have less of a problem as fewer of Revolution's models fit with where I'm modelling. The PFA container flats do cause some problems though; I already have 20+ of the C=Rail kits and whilst a second train would be nice to have, I can't justify spending upwards of £500 on a rake of wagons all in one go, but with a potentially one off production run I won't be able to spread the cost over a year or two like I was with my rake of HAAs by buying a few at a time every couple of months.



Steven B


I get your point Steven but just because they ran in their timeframe doesnt mean they "have to have them" and if you do then you find the means of paying for it.

I missed out on the Regent class b tanks because I wasnt clued up enough on my location so I have paid considerably more to obtain the 15 I now own. I could of got 24 when they were first announced for the same money.

revolutioN produce fantastic quality wagons and that commands the cost they are which is in now way expensive for what they are producing. Theres a reason other companies wont touch these but that's the great thing regarding this brilliant set up.

I have Sturgeons on order and hopefully one day they will announce more wagons suited to me, one things for sure I will not miss out on the rake that I need to run and that will cost me whatever it costs IF they are a model "I MUST HAVE"

We have a company here who announces items and gets them built quicker then the others can reissue items. I dont think revolutioN should be moaned at for things coming out quickly or that they are selling them in a way that reduces the cost to us their customers
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: RailGooner on November 27, 2019, 12:05:02 PM
..
I think a bigger problem is the rate at which Revolution are anouncing new post-privatisation era models.
...

I've had to pass on IPAs for this very reason. Had this announcement been another block train type, I'd have had to pass again. I fear my 3x Greenergy TEAs may never become six or more. :(  But this isn't just a RevolutioN problem. Bachmann have said that there'll be no more Farish Seacows/Sealions, so my two are destined for Heritage use. I'm glad that I have enough Farish JJAs as I doubt we'll see another release of those either.

I'm very optimistic that I'll be able to buy a brace of KUAs only because I won't need a dozen. Though I likely won't be able to order till close to the order book closing.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: njee20 on November 27, 2019, 12:49:54 PM
If the model is out of budgets then this website can give some hints for scratch building:
[url]http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/kua/index.htm[/url] ([url]http://s374444733.websitehome.co.uk/kua/index.htm[/url])

Steven B


Also there is a 3D printed version: [url]https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16474.0[/url] ([url]https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16474.0[/url])


I noticed recently that David's website has gone offline, which is a shame as it had options to purchase decals/wheels at the same time. It's worth noting that each wagon is £50 for the unpainted body print only. Then you need 4 bogies, wheels, couplings etc, and to actually build and paint it.

Like Craig I totally agree that just because something is relevant for your chosen modelling period that doesn't mean you have to have it. I accept that Revolution's 'one off' production runs are not ideal for forming rakes over a period of time, but we've already seen more and more retailers take some of their models (I accept others, like the mk5s are not being sold through retailers), so that option comes to the fore, and it's not like Dapol or Farish stuff is available for years these days, with stuff selling through quickly.

Ultimately the long block trains that are a staple of modern operations are never going to be cheap to model. I'd argue that the KUAs are pretty cheap in that respect, £30 for a mk2 coach and £70 for a KUA and you have a fully prototypical train for a variety of traction. Contrast that with most other current generation wagons and you'll struggle. Realtrack's PCAs are lovely, but at £27 each I just can't justify the cost for the train of 30ish that I'd want. Farish's FIA container twins come up in discussion regularly at £75+ a pair, and you need more than 2 pairs for a prototypical train.

I think Revolution are actually very shrewd in the order they release things, for example the MMA coming to OO gauge first, to avoid cannibalising the market for the HOA, given there's almost certainly a lot of crossover. I accept if you go down the broad "post privitisation" tack there are a lot of models at once, but even in that context "at once" generally means split by a few months. The KUAs are expensive, yes, but they're niche and complex, I'll be having a pair!

..
I think a bigger problem is the rate at which Revolution are anouncing new post-privatisation era models.
...


I've had to pass on IPAs for this very reason.


But the order book hasn't yet closed, and retailers may well have some too. You can still get IZAs through retail channels, for example.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: RailGooner on November 27, 2019, 01:19:03 PM
..
..
I think a bigger problem is the rate at which Revolution are anouncing new post-privatisation era models.
...

I've had to pass on IPAs for this very reason.

But the order book hasn't yet closed, and retailers may well have some too. You can still get IZAs through retail channels, for example.

Indeedy. I pretty much agree with you and @exmouthcraig (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5099) here - without a lottery win, I must and I do accept that I can't have everything I want in life and that goes across the board not just for model trains. Ergo, I'm choosing to pass on the IPAs so that I can choose to have something else. Something like KUAs!

But it's a curse of our western lives that while in the main we are well fed and healthy, we must bemoan missing out on another luxury material object.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: robert shrives on November 27, 2019, 01:29:55 PM
The order book is now open: https://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/kua-nuclear-flask-carrier-twin-pack/ (https://www.revolutiontrains.com/product/kua-nuclear-flask-carrier-twin-pack/)

Cheers Mike
deed done , thanks !
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: red_death on November 27, 2019, 02:07:02 PM
We're not oblivious to the need to improve both the breadth of our range in terms of appeal to a variety of time periods and locations.  We've been trying to schedule things better but we are always looking to improve our scheduling.  Generally we are working on 3 periods (at the moment): transition; 70s-80s; and "modern" (accepting that there is likely or hopefully some overlap between periods).

I think that part of the problem is that anything introduced in the late 70s - mid 80s is likely to either still be around or recently (last 5-10 years) in use.

I don't think that the batch production problem is unique to us - I treat all models as one off production runs as even if logic suggests that a second run would be worthwhile there are never any guarantees. Same with too much choice arriving from different sources at once - I've missed out on stuff I'd have liked to buy for similar reasons expressed above (JJAs being a case in point though that pain is reduced somewhat by having some NGS kits for autoballasters). 

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Graham on November 27, 2019, 09:37:12 PM
order placed, looking forward to these.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on February 07, 2020, 07:26:03 PM

Hello all,

We have received EP1 samples of the KUA flask carriers.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/94-070220192002-872271012.jpeg)

The models actually arrived before CNY but we were focussing on closing the order book for the IPA car carriers until now.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/94-070220192002-87227791.jpeg)

They’ve been checked over and we have sent feedback to the factory. For further information and to order see our website here: www.revolutiontrains.com/news (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/news)

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: njee20 on February 07, 2020, 07:45:47 PM
Lovely, must get my order in! I'm intrigued how they work on R1 curves, is there some lateral movement in the 'inner' bogies or something? Otherwise it feels like they'd almost work as a single, very long, bogie and likely derail!
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: jpendle on February 07, 2020, 07:51:07 PM
MONSTER!!!!!

Btw one of the lids, for want of a better word, looks a bit skew whiff. Or is that just the photo angle?

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: captainelectra on February 07, 2020, 08:06:08 PM
Looks lovely - are these just being sold as a pair or can we get singles as well (thinking of my budget with the move and everything)?
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Smiffy on February 07, 2020, 08:46:13 PM
Looks really nice 👍
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Graham on February 07, 2020, 09:05:17 PM
Oh WOW !!!! looking forward to getting these.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: rusticged on February 07, 2020, 10:00:54 PM
Amazing models!!
Hope you have the EP1 in Glasgow.
Cheers,
Ged.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on February 07, 2020, 10:22:11 PM

Hello all,

They do look pretty tasty!

One of the covers has a tiny bit of flash preventing it sitting quite true - one of the things that will be corrected for production.

And this EP1 sample will be on show at Glasgow - along with the Cemflo samples - on our new, bigger display stand!

See you there!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: red_death on February 08, 2020, 12:59:58 AM
They work round very tight curves (like the real thing which is designed for dockyard curves) because all the bogies are articulated and each pair is on another pivoting bolster. So although they are very long the effective wheelbase is pretty short.

They’re being sold in pairs only - otherwise we’d have had to price them significantly higher for the singles.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: geoffc on February 08, 2020, 10:06:09 AM
I don't know if the EP should actually represent the finished article or not. The handrails and catwalks dont look good and the etched brass bits are askew in places.

Geoff
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Snowwolflair on February 08, 2020, 10:17:50 AM
I don't know if the EP should actually represent the finished article or not. The handrails and catwalks dont look good and the etched brass bits are askew in places.

Geoff

I would not worry the EP is a close representation but is rarely as sharp and accurate as the final production injection moulded parts.  After all it is usually a 3D printed resin or similar material, but it does give a good representation of size and how it goes together.

Its worth going back to previous model EPs and compare them to the final models to see how it improves.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on February 08, 2020, 11:49:06 AM

Hello Geoff,

Thanks for your comments. You will note the handrail issue is mentioned in the item on our website.

The EP is a first-hand assembled sample made from injection moulded parts, not resin or 3-D prints.

The purpose is to identify issues such as fit of  parts, running qualities, details and any tooling blemishes.

Because the EP is hand assembled sometimes the parts can be damaged – in production assembly is often carried out with a jig to ensure the delicate parts are not distorted, and of course the finished models will be shipped in protective blisters; these were sent in a box and just protected by bubble-wrap.

FWIW, we were also supplied with unassembled sprues and on these all the handrails are straight and true.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on April 03, 2020, 06:55:39 PM
Hello all,

For those that were not able to join our Facebook Live on Tuesday evening I have now managed to take a decent snap of the KUA pair.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/94-030420184040-90215746.jpeg)

The decorated samples are subject to a couple of very small amendments and we are now close to beginning production.

The earlybird price of £139.95 for the pair will be available until the end of May.   After that, the price will go up to the standard RRP of £159.95.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Snowwolflair on April 03, 2020, 07:01:38 PM
Quote
The earlybird price of £139.95 for the pair will be available until the end of February.

where do I order the time machine  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on April 03, 2020, 07:09:19 PM
Quote
The earlybird price of £139.95 for the pair will be available until the end of February.

where do I order the time machine  :smiley-laughing:

D’oh!  End of May.  Now corrected in the original post.

But... can I suggest anyone interested doesn’t leave it until the last minute.  With every deadline we receive regretful emails from those who forgot, missed it due to work etc...

Just saying!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Graham on April 03, 2020, 10:46:41 PM
they are looking really good, cant wait for mine to arrive.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: TRXsouth on May 01, 2020, 05:04:56 PM
Greetings - I joined NGF today so this is the newbie’s very first question!
‘Boxed Anchor’ on KUAs
I have been intrigued by the ‘Boxed Anchor’ symbol on these carriers. My understanding is that the symbol originally meant acceptance on a train ferry, but the last cross channel ferry was Dover - Dunkirk which closed in 1995. The symbol now covers traversing the Channel Tunnel.
The KUAs were built in 1998 so have they ever travelled through the Channel Tunnel? If they have, does anyone have details? If they have not, could they actually do so, and in what scenario - where could they go in France or beyond?
I am researching for a continental layout and wonder whether I could justify the carriers based on a factual journey, not just ‘my layout; my trains’ - !
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: red_death on May 01, 2020, 06:15:25 PM
Yes, the anchor displays that the wagon was designed for ferry use.  The KUAs replaced IQAs which were/are used across the continent (certainly France, Germany and Belgium) and I suspect that they were designed as direct replacements so provision was made to fit them ferry tie downs etc. In use the KUAs have been used almost exclusively for submarine nuclear fuel whereas the IQAs they replaced were used used for other nuclear materials IIRC.

I'm not aware that the KUAs have ever left the UK, though I think that at least one IQA has been through the tunnel.

In terms of where they could go to - France has a nuclear reprocessing facility at Cap de la Hague near Cherbourg and there used to be reasonably regular movements of material between Sellafield and Cap de la Hague.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: acko22 on May 09, 2020, 11:28:44 AM
The KUAs were built in 1998 so have they ever travelled through the Channel Tunnel? If they have, does anyone have details? If they have not, could they actually do so, and in what scenario - where could they go in France or beyond?
I am researching for a continental layout and wonder whether I could justify the carriers based on a factual journey, not just ‘my layout; my trains’ - !

Hi well,

I may well have the answer to this one after a little research and contacts, so as @red_death (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=246) says the provision for going on a boat is there and there is little doubt that they are gauge to allow for traffic through the channel tunnel and may have ran a test through the tunnel.

Again as Mike says the IQAs carried other material than sub fuels they could do as they were not MOD rail assets (IIRC BNFL registered), but the KUA wagons are MOD rail assets (Military nuclear transport) as such there comes a raft of other regulations, restrictions and considerations that have to be taken into account which pretty much rule them out from been used on a service onto the continent, well without a lot of red tape and fresh agreements been made especially with France.

But all that been said if you are after a unique nuclear flow why not get the KUAs they were a direct replacement for the IQAs which did wonder into France on occasion and ignore the real life red tape! ;)
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: TRXsouth on May 24, 2020, 12:50:53 PM
Thank you Mike and Acko22 for your replies to my ‘boxed anchor’ queries - and while looking into this further, I am also now aware of the ‘boxed CT’ symbol. Would there have been any other destinations other than Cap de la Hague? Looking at a map, this is rather ‘round and up to the north west peninsula’ - l was wondering if there could be an ‘across Europe’ flow through France to Germany? I am researching a continental layout and trying to create a potential UK-Europe route to help me justify spending my limited budget!
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 24, 2020, 01:06:03 PM
Just a few thoughts .... https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130582-modern-wagon-markings/ (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130582-modern-wagon-markings/)    and here 
       maybe worth a read (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/146749-kr-models-announce-nuclear-flask-wagon/page/5/)
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: TRXsouth on May 24, 2020, 01:20:06 PM
Thank you crewearpley40 - that is such a helpful link - cheers!
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 24, 2020, 01:28:39 PM
Just a couple one knows that was for a different scale but just to give an idea to add to ben and gareth 's posts and knowledge on the flows
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Hiawatha on May 24, 2020, 06:50:33 PM
Will the KUA twin-pack be in one box or individually boxed (with a sleeve around the two boxes)? The latter would make splitting a set easier for those who only want one (like me).
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 24, 2020, 06:52:04 PM
Will the KUA twin-pack be in one box or individually boxed (with a sleeve around the two boxes)? The latter would make splitting a set easier for those who only want one (like me).

I think Ben confirmed separate boxes.  Others have the same idea. :)
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Ben A on May 24, 2020, 07:15:50 PM

Hi all,

Packaging not finalised yet, but most likely to be a book set.

Cheers

Ben A,
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: Intercity on May 24, 2020, 07:16:30 PM
For anyone getting ready for these I just noticed a DRS mk2 BSO on that auction site, not sure how often they come up, I grabbed 2 a while ago as I didn’t know if demand would go up suddenly with these being produced.
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: jpendle on May 24, 2020, 07:58:07 PM
I would like one of these, as its the original model 374-681 numbered 9419, but I do have two of the newer version 374-681A.

Also the problem for me with buying stuff from ebay in the UK is that the postage is very high, 23 pounds for this item, and as no VAT has been added then it doesn't get deducted, whereas buying from a Retailer's website saves me 16.6% which generally covers the postage.

They are being sold by a Forum member.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Goes Radioactive!
Post by: red_death on May 24, 2020, 10:39:02 PM
As I mentioned previously I don't think the KUAs have ever run outside of the UK, though the predecessor IQAs did.  There were somewhere between 7 and 9 IQAs built IIRC and 2 are rotting in the UK, but at least some are still running across Europe.

I don't know where the locations might be in Belgium or the Netherlands (or if Germany used/uses them). If you look for images of the RIV numbers of the IQAs you should be able to work out other wagon numbers for the continental ones as they are all consecutive numbers - scratch that the numbers of the UK pair were: 33 87 9985 008 - 33 87 9985 009.  You might be able to find pictures of other members of the class in use across Europe.

Cheers Mike

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