N Gauge Forum

Your Layout and Models => Layout Construction => Topic started by: lil chris on November 05, 2019, 04:35:10 PM

Title: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 05, 2019, 04:35:10 PM
Hello everyone this is the new post I promised for the start of my new layout. I have not started to make the baseboards yet but today I went to B&Q and my local model shop "The Loco Shed". I have bought some Wago connectors from B&Q, they did not have them on the shelf I had to ask. I also bought some Gaugemaster connectors too from the model shop, hopefully these buys will help considerably with the wiring of the new layout, a little less soldering. I have made a few decisions regarding the new layout after talking to one of the guys ( Roger) in the shop I decided to use my Cobalt motors with a Cobalt Alpha to control the points. Again no more struggling soldering wires to interface the switches for the Peco Pl10 motors, I had noticed a couple of the wires looked loose on the 25 D connector. I have ordered a Cobalt Alpha kit and also ordered a box of code 55 track, supporting my local model shop. Sometimes going into your local shop is worth paying a bit extra for the free advice. The shop will also take my code 80 track off me and the peco motors, I don't imagine I will get a lot for it but everything helps.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-051119163352.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on November 05, 2019, 04:39:55 PM
Good luck with the build Chris.
Iíll be following with interest.
Martin
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 05, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Thanks Martin I have been watching your new build too, I enjoy this part of building the layout its exciting and fun.
Another thing is I reinstalled Windows 10 yesterday on my railway computer ie this computer. I installed it a couple of weeks has a free  upgrade but it kept playing up on startup so I decided to do a clean install from a USB stick. I was forced to use the diskpart command to get it to install but it is running smooth now and considerably faster. And I have a lovely pic on my desktop of the class 108 DMU going over the Viaduct on my East Lancs railway layout.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on November 05, 2019, 04:50:56 PM
Have fun.

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 05, 2019, 08:33:26 PM
I forgot to add on my post i also bought one of these from B&Q only £12, been using it already un-doing the screws on the old fiddle yard.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-051119203254.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on November 05, 2019, 09:29:07 PM
I look forward to seeing a track plan and further developments as they happen, Chris.
Good luck
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: weave on November 05, 2019, 09:33:41 PM
Hi lil Chris,

Looking forward to your new build. As you said exciting and fun.

Cheers weave  :beers:

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrispearce on November 05, 2019, 10:07:54 PM
Tally ho old chap. Good luck and Godspeed.  :D
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 05, 2019, 10:50:27 PM
Hi everyone thanks for the good wishes. I am not sure about posting a track plan, I am not very good at them. I tried Scarm last time but soon give up with frustration. I also tried Anyrail, I had a shortcut on the pc before I upgraded to W10. Trouble was I forgot to check if it was the full version, I thought I might have bought the full version, I can not find any log in details so maybe not. I have the latest free version and I might give it a try.
The way I work, building some baseboard space to try and I will know if the plan in my head will fit and work, watch this space. The fiddle yard board will be 9' x 18" split in the middle to form two boards connected with dowels. The main scenic boards will fit in front again split and joined together with dowels but also joined to the fiddle yard boards with dowels. The idea is the layout can be split up to work on the individual boards. the problem will be disguising the split between the two scenic boards at the front.  I managed to disguise the splits on the old boards where they join with road bridges on two and a tunnel on the other, I am sure I will think of something. Where they join the fiddle yard will not be a problem. This layout will be one of those rabbit warren type layouts in and out of the tunnels lol.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Bealman on November 05, 2019, 11:16:11 PM
Looking forward to this!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: joe cassidy on November 06, 2019, 12:01:45 PM
Chris, why not draw your track plan on paper, with a compass and a ruler ?

Use graph paper to make it easier to draw vertical and horizontal lines.

Best regards,


Joe
P.S. I confess I worked for a paper company for more than 30 years
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: daveg on November 06, 2019, 02:20:31 PM
I'm a fan of AnyRail!

As you're not sure if you bought a full licence, it may be worth an email to check if you do have an 'account' with them. https://www.anyrail.com/en/contact (https://www.anyrail.com/en/contact)

Failing that, using the freebie version may give you a start in getting your ideas sorted.

Whichever way you go, I'm looking forward to seeing what you get up to!

Dave G
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on November 06, 2019, 06:43:53 PM
Chris, why not draw your track plan on paper, with a compass and a ruler ?


If you could do that and post a pic of the drawing on the forum I'll be happy to attempt to knock it up in SCARM. Just let me have the dimensions, too. @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 06, 2019, 07:54:41 PM
Thanks guys for the offer of help, I will have a think on what to do next. At the moment I have tided up and cleared the floor of the loft room and I am just starting making one fiddle yard board to see how it goes. No rush, I fancied one of those electric saws I saw a guy using on the Great model railway challenge but at £80 I can not justify buying one of those, so I will just have to get my arm going with a normal saw.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 06, 2019, 09:32:25 PM
Well I have started on the build, the wood is not straight, the board frame seemed a bit warped. Hopefully fitting the 9mm ply on the top which I have glued and pinned and then weighed down, it might straighten out overnight. I need to cut and fit the extra 6" of ply on the end yet, I do not want to make any noise ( kids in bed next door) so I will leave it to tomorrow.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-061119213115.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 07, 2019, 05:30:07 PM
Well one board is nearly complete and it has straightened out considerably over night. I plan to fit strengtheners in the corners for the support legs /frame, which should keep it straight. I will glue these in place and leave them overnight which should make the boards pretty strong. In the local model shop today I bought a Peco set track planning book, now I am not using set track but it confirmed that my plan, in my head, for the fiddle yard should work in the space I have allocated which is good news. The extra foot in length should enable some decent length trains to be stored in the fiddle yard. The only problem I forsee at the moment is the Cobalt point motors, mine are the old anolouge motors(DCP-CB6 on the box).I am not sure if these will work with the Cobalt Alpha I have ordered, it says it works with anolouge motors but mine are the early ones. I might contact DCC Concepts and ask about them, I have bought two digital motors today. I know I will need some more motors so it makes sense to buy digital motors. Pics to follow later on.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on November 07, 2019, 09:51:29 PM
 :hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
   All sounding very interesting Chris, good luck with the build, will be following with interest.
      regards Derek.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 07, 2019, 10:18:24 PM
Thanks Derek, watch this space I am really motivated at the moment, looking forward to this myself.  Seeing has I am abandoning the peco motors for the Cobalt motors, I know I need some more so I will buy all the digital type in the future. The plan is to use them for the fiddle yard has well as on the scenic section of the layout. I will not be using many on the scenic section it just depends what I can fit in without the layout looking to crowded. Trains in the country is my main idea for the layout on two levels. Here are a couple of pics of items purchased recently, from L to R ,new Solder iron tips, Gorilla glue and two Cobalt digital IP motors. The second pic shows my boards one nearly finished, the second board behind still needs it's ply fitting,I have run out of panel pins, I have a bag somewhere but can not find them which is typical. The second board frame is spot on no distortion at all, I must have made that one better than the first, obviously I am a bit rusty in the joinery department.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-071119221257.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-071119221427.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrispearce on November 07, 2019, 10:39:56 PM
We seem to be at a similar stage of development Chris. Sure foundations and all that jazz! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Pjlons83 on November 08, 2019, 06:23:06 AM
Hi Chris. Iíve just caught up with this thread and itís looking good so far!  :thumbsup:

I do enjoying watching these layouts come together right from the bare wood stage! Iím a big fan of gorilla glue and use all kinds of it; even the strong tape comes in handy. Just be cautious about using too much of the expanding stuff. Itís amazing how much it does expand. Iíve gone to bed before thinking it was fine only to return the next day to realise I used way too much.  :o

Good luck with the layout.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on November 08, 2019, 06:36:44 AM
Yes, Chris, do go for the IP motors.  I have no less that 46 of the beasts, mostly in the storage loops (my version of fiddle yards).  It's great, because you can pair them up for crosovers by giving both motors the same accessory address.  Also, If you have a contoller that supports routes, you can group them into routes, which makes operating MUCH simpler.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 08, 2019, 10:14:23 AM
Thanks Laurence,I had a pair of Peco motors paired for a crossover on the old fiddleyard.  Regarding the Peco motors I do not think they are ideally suited to N _gauge points,they go with a bang and of course n gauge points do not need has much travel has 00 gauge. One of the points I removed from the fiddleyard was falling to bits and wires were loose on a motor probably caused by the vibration. So time for a change, I like the Cobalt motors,but most of mine are the old ones.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 08, 2019, 11:29:25 PM
Some good news, I have found out I can use a accessory decoder unit called a AD-FX which will control 4 anolouge motors and is cheaper than buying 4 motors so I will probably get one of those.
This afternoon I managed to get in the railway room and do some more work on the baseboards. I fitted the piece of ply to the second board which I glued and tacked with panel pins, then I fitted some more corner supports for the legs to the first board using the Gorrilla glue for those, clamping those. I only have two clamps that will fit so I can only do two at a time, using the Gorilla Glue they need clamping also taking care not to use too much.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 09, 2019, 10:50:33 PM
Well after shopping this morning I had a trip to Heywood, the club there had a openday. There is not much n gauge, it's nearly all 00 plus a couple of big 0 gauge layouts. I had a chat with a guy on the n gauger layout. I asked him which track he was using and he said code 80, so I gave him 3 xcode 80 live frog points, they had soldered track joined to them and wires etc. I thought instead of messing about trying to clean them up I would donate them to their layout. He said thanks very much and went crawling under the layout and then gave me two code 55 points, which I thanked him for, so a good morning.
 I managed to find some time in the railway room this afternoon and evening to do some more gluing and cutting of more strengtheners for the second board. I have also now figured a way to make a self standing support frame for the centre of the fiddle yard boards. I need to think of a way to make self standing supporting frames for the ends of the fiddle yard board without losing too much stoarge space under the layout boards. I have found a nice plan for the fiddle yard boards in the Peco set track book I bought, I of course I will be using code 55 with the Cobalt motors, but it is all coming together.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 10, 2019, 04:19:13 PM
More work on the baseboards this afternoon, more strenghtheners in the corners and I have made two sides of the centre support frame with castors. One has it's location dowels glued in place, I intend to have a small shelf on it to store stuff on, I am waiting for glue to dry at the moment. The dowels do not need to be a tight fit I want to be able to lift off a single board if needed to work on. The idea is the whole layout can be wheeled forward, I need some more of the small castors, I think I bought those from a show a few years ago. I think B&Q do some of a similar size, hoepfully the same size then I do not have to try and calculate the height difference. The supports I have made make the layout 2' off the floor, I can not go much higher because of the big beam across the room.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-101119161120.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on November 10, 2019, 04:31:27 PM
Castersonline
https://www.castors-online.co.uk (https://www.castors-online.co.uk)
Are quite good.  I have used them in the past.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 10, 2019, 05:08:13 PM
Thanks Laurence, just taken a look, they look very much like the ones I have, thanks again.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 11, 2019, 04:11:38 PM
Well today I went to B&Q for some wood for making support legs. While I was there I found these,(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-111119160331.jpeg)
 What I think are frames for plant pots, the thing is they have for 4 nice sized castors fitted. The castors on there own were £3.65 each, these frames were £5.98 and they have four castors that were bigger and better so it was a no brainer, frames bought. As it happens I also have two castors with the same size wheels in my box so they might come in handy. I managed to finish the frame last night, I even managed to put a shelf on it. I need to make at least one end frame then I can put one board up to see how it looks. Once I checked for height etc I will start on fitting the dowels before painting the boards.
I forgot to add here is a pic of the central support frame for the fiddle yard.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-111119161542.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrispearce on November 11, 2019, 04:33:40 PM
Nice, tidy work Chris. Like the locating dowels. Very professional-looking! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 11, 2019, 09:04:56 PM
Well work unfortunately stopped this afternoon, I have looked everywhere but can not find the drill I bought for the cabinet makers dowels. Also I went out on a musical evening tonight, but tomorrow I will have to bite the bullet and buy another drill. The railway might be a bit expensive this week, I have ordered some control equipment, track and electronics etc, it's going to be fun. Off to watch Youtube a bit of Simons shed a fellow n-gauger.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on November 12, 2019, 09:00:59 PM
Nice, tidy work Chris. Like the locating dowels. Very professional-looking! :thumbsup:
:hellosign:
  I'll second that & hope you aquire all you need Chris.
         regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 12, 2019, 09:05:38 PM
Hello everyone, I have done plenty today, I have built the right support frame, I have made it "L" shaped so it will stand alone. I have fitted the dowels to join the two fiddle yard boards, one was slightly out so adjustment was needed. The best way is to clamp the two boards together and drill a pilot hole through the both of them, I could not do that with these two fiddle yard boards because of a inner support, I won't make that mistake again. I have given the central support a layer of primer on the bare wood, it just needs glossing to finish it off. I have also drilled some holes between the boards for wires etc, I should be able to try them standing tomorrow before finishing painting the boards them selves.
Today I received a parcel with my accessory decoder, it should have been a 4 way but they sent two two ways instead, which as it happens might be better for me to wire up too my anolouge Cobalt motors.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 12, 2019, 09:08:11 PM
Thanks Derek, @cornish yorkie (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4216) things are progressing well. My order from the model shop has not arrived yet, might be later this week. I am enjoying doing this, once the boards are up things will start to take shape.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 13, 2019, 05:17:07 PM
Some adjustments needed to be made this afternoon to my first fiddle yard board. Despite it only being less than 1mm out from one end to the other, which was easily adjusted the board was not level with the spirit level. On putting the spirit level on the floor I found out the floor on the right side of the loft room is not level either. So two pieces of 6mm ply later added to the supports on the left side of the board should do it, I will report back later the glue should be dry by now.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-131119171321.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on November 13, 2019, 05:19:58 PM
Looks good Chris.
I share your problems with floors not being level.
We live in a 200 year old cottage. Nothing is level!
All good fun.
Martin
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 13, 2019, 05:24:50 PM
Thanks Martin, well I used castors on the old fiddle yard  and that was giving me problems with stock rolling to the left, now I know why. The main boards of the layout all had leveling feet so I had no problems with adjusting them. Its nearly correct now a couple of pieces of cork on top of the legs should do it.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 15, 2019, 05:29:19 PM
Well I managed to level the board,two pieces of 6mm ply on the two left supports and i also shortened the three right posts a touch. The fun will be making the left fiddle yard supports. I think I will just make them the same, it is easy enough to adjust them if needed to make them higher.
I have cut wood for the right scenic board and fitted the dowels ready, I did that ready while it was easy to line the boards up. I will not get in the railway room now till sat evening, not sure what to do next possibly painting.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 17, 2019, 03:30:53 PM
I have done some tidying up last night in the railway room, making room for the second fiddle yard board. I can now proceed making the next set of legs for the left side of the fiddle yard. I have also made some tracksetta's out of some old drawer bottoms. I have made them in two sizes, 3rd radius and second radius, second radius being the minimum for this layout. I did have some first radius on the old fiddle yard which was a bit limiting. I am now planning the track on the first board to see where the points will be, then I can add some strengtheners in appropiate paces under the board before painting.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1784-171119152340.jpeg)


Well  Two strengtheners added on and now the board has been part painted with primer/undercoat.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 18, 2019, 07:42:27 PM
More progress today, second ie lh support frame has been made for the fiddle yard board. Hopefully I have my measurements correct for the length of the legs. I will probably have to adjust the individual height after, I can always add height with pieces of ply or cork on top of the posts to get things level. I have also given both boards and the leg frames a coat of primer/undercoat.
Today I went to one of my local model shops, I bought some code 55 and a couple of points plus some of the excellent Woodland Scenics shaper sheet, I have seen a few guys using this on youtube to good effect. It's a little expensive but is a lot better than using chicken wire, once you put plaster over the top it is has solid as a rock, is that the name of a tune ?. Pics to follow in a few days when I have the boards set up ready.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on November 18, 2019, 08:03:01 PM
solid as a rock, is that the name of a tune ?.

Solid As A Rock, Ashford and Simpson, 1984.

Nice to hear things are progressing Chris.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 18, 2019, 09:57:38 PM
Thanks @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209)  Danny,the tune,  I knew I had heard of it.
Had some good news after checking one of my e mail accounts, I have a full licence for AnyRail and they have sent me the licence key so I might have a play with that sometime.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 19, 2019, 01:52:45 PM
Well today I made a big investment in my Model Railway system. The Cobalt Alpha central system I ordered a couple of weeks ago from my local model shop has arrived, I also bought some cork to put under the track. I decided on the 1.5mm thickness because that looks about right after track ballasting to give a nice shoulder. I have also been to The Range and bought another bottle of Copydex to glue the track down, I prefer that too using pva. This is a early christmas present to myself, skint now till I get my pension.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-191119134656.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 19, 2019, 04:54:28 PM
Hello everyone, has suspected the second board was low on the left so modifications have now been made, ie 2 pieces of 9mm ply added to the supports on the board. I can make final fine adjustments after with pieces of hardboard or cork. There is no way I am having this board not level but I am getting there, pics to follow later when the boards are up, waiting for glue to dry at present. I can not wait to start laying some track, after I have finished painting gloss of course. It's crucial to paint the boards in this loft room with varible temperatures.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 19, 2019, 07:57:33 PM
Well I have managed to level the fiddle yard boards, I had to fix two pieces of 9mm ply onto the board supports. I had to fix them to the boards because of the large thickness on the legs, I was losing the dowels. I can now finish painting the boards so they are ready for the next phase.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-191119195401.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 20, 2019, 08:42:04 PM
Hi everyone, well both boards and the supports are all painted now with gloss, I do not think I have missed anywhere. Doesn't this paint take ages to dry now adays, some has been on 24 hours and is still tacky. I can start planning the next phase now, I need to make a decision on how to power the layout. I have 4x psx circuit breakers, on the old layout 1 for the fiddle yard, 1 for the other 4 sections and two for the station, ie up line and down line. The idea being a fault on one would not shut down the whole layout, inevitably when a fault did occur it was on the fiddle yard boards which more or less shut down any running.
One thought was one breaker for each board but that would have the same effect on a fault. So I am thinking of 2 breakers for the fiddle yard 1 for the outer track/clockwise and the other for inside track anti clockwise. The same with the two scenic section breakers at the front, this should allow some running to continue if there is a fault. I also need to decide where to place my control panels, its fun working all this out. I am a person who has a plan in my head and work on it as I work on it, hopefuly it will all work out. I have learned a lot on the last two layouts and hopefully that will help me avoid the same pitfalls. I am so looking forward to laying some track, the right side of the fiddle yard will be first. The fiddle yard will be more conventional than the previous yard which wasted a lot of space, I will be following a plan in the the Peco set track book but using code 55 track and points, it should work.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on November 20, 2019, 09:37:21 PM
Doesn't this paint take ages to dry now adays, some has been on 24 hours and is still tacky.

But if the paint was able to dry quickly you'd complain it was too hot up there to be comfortable :P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 20, 2019, 09:42:34 PM
@Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264)  True........

Next summer I will be ready, with the new layout I will have room for the Air Conditioning unit........if it still works.....
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on November 20, 2019, 09:54:59 PM
I am a person who has a plan in my head and work on it as I work on it

A man after my own heart!   :thumbsup:  I can not form a plan and stick to it, I find as I go along I am making changes.  :)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 20, 2019, 10:34:09 PM
Thanks @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209), Yes I am no good with plans I just plod along ,making it up has I go along.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on November 21, 2019, 05:40:49 PM
 :hellosign:
  Excellent progress Chris coming along a treat. Personally love making plans on "Scarm", forever changing them but all part of the fun.
          regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 21, 2019, 07:37:46 PM
Thanks Derek @cornish yorkie (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4216) , I think I have already said I could not get my head around Scarm but found Anyrail more to my liking. I messaged them to find if I had bought the full version and now I have the full version thanks to the developer sending me the key. I might have a go sometime and see what I can come up with.
Today I have assembled the now painted boards, I have had to do some more tweaking to get them level. Take a look at this pic and look at the far left support plus the beam going across the room. It will be worth it though to get it right at this stage and avoid problems later like a unwanted gradient. I intend to give the top of the board a coat of primer/undercoat before I lay any track, thats the bit I am looking forward too.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-211119193608.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on November 22, 2019, 06:55:47 AM
You're getting there, Chris.  Once the track starts to go down, it'll begin to fee like a real model railway.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Elvenhome on November 22, 2019, 08:22:22 PM
OK I now have you bookmarked so I can follow the development of the layout

Stephen
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 23, 2019, 11:36:33 PM
Thanks Fred,  @Elvenhome (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4596)  only joking I mean Stephen. I am hoping to make a start on the track soon. If you have time take a look at my old layout in this forum https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29492.2385 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=29492.2385)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 24, 2019, 05:51:31 PM
More work today, I have finished my first front scenic board for the right side. This board is part open plan, I have used my last piece of ply for the right side. I planned out my track plan on the floor last night and everything is looking has if it will work out ok. The front section is 4'6" x 2'10", it connects to the fiddle yard with two cabinet makers dowels, held together eventually with suitcase catches, a G clamp for now. The next job is to make some legs for the front section, a piece of wood propping it up at the moment, they will also have castors fitted for easy movement.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-241119174312.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on November 24, 2019, 08:33:13 PM
 :hellosign:
     Tidy work Chris, looking good  :thumbsup:
       regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 25, 2019, 09:22:45 PM
More work today after going to B&Q for another piece of 9mm ply plus a couple of pieces of wood. I have added two supports on the front of the fiddle yard board so you can rest the front scenic board on it while you line up the dowels. I have fitted dowels to the end of that board and fitted dowels ready on the left fiddle yard board ready for when I have made the left scenic board which is more open plan. All four of the boards are fitted with dowels joining them to the next board and all will be fitted with suitcase catches although some will be under the boards.
The old viaduct section from East Lanc lines will be fitted in the front of the left scenic board, I still need to figure out how to do that. Tonight I have fitted leg supports under the right scenic board, I then need to make legs with castors for the front section, this is proving to be difficult with the leveling situation. One solution I have thought of is to use the leveling brkts I have from the old layout but mount them on the side of the legs at the top, and then use them to adjust the height of the boards. The main problem is not just leveling left to right but also front to back at the same time, my spirit level is working flat out at the moment. I am waiting for the glue to dry now so no more work today, time for a well earned rest. By the way swmbo is impressed by the layout, and that is saying something.She prefers it to the old layout which she says was too big. This layout is bigger in some ways but a more compact unit and does not take up has much floor space, and more running track. I am looking forward to getting some track down and some running so watch this space.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on November 25, 2019, 09:33:40 PM
She prefers it to the old layout which she says was too big. This layout is bigger in some ways but a more compact unit

Of all the planning you have done for this layout Chris, that bit is probably the most clever.  How to get a bigger layout and make Val think it is smaller - brilliant  ;) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 25, 2019, 09:50:49 PM
Thanks David @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) ...spot on it's easy when you know how. But this layout will definately have more running, and the beauty of it is for one lap/circuit the train goes past twice before returning from whence it came. I will have to try and knock up some sort of track plan. I am quite pleased with it though it has caused me some sleepless nights working it out.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 26, 2019, 10:06:00 PM
More work today on the baseboards, I was going to make a start on the left scenic board but I relaised it was a bit pointless while the other board is being held up by a offcut of wood. So legs it is, I have decided to use the same idea as on the fiddle yard board on the right end, a "L" shape support which is self standing. I will do the same for the left side, not sure what to do in the centre yet. I have made the fiddle yard supports substantial so they can support the front scenic sections too. Its all coming together, the left scenic board will be the hardest to make, it has the viaduct section and a small gradient on one of the tracks to build in. The river behind the viaduct will now continue under the monkey bridge, I have the scratch built model stored away in a box somewhere. I will also need another bridge where one of my tracks goes over the other, I am planning on scratch building a bridge off the East lancashire Railway down at Burrs country park. I will  go down there and take some pics, I have some pics in a few books but a few close ups of the real thing will help. Now where is that damm spirit level....???
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on November 26, 2019, 10:24:06 PM
The river behind the viaduct will now continue under the monkey bridge, I have the scratch built model stored away in a box somewhere.Now where is that damm spirit level....???

Probably in the same box as the Monkey Bridge :D
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 27, 2019, 07:36:56 PM
Here is my latest pic of my baseboards, you can see the spirit level on the top Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) . The right scenic board still needs painting plus the supports but I am nearly there now so quite pleased with myself. Next job is to make a start on the left open frame, you can see the dowels already in place. I will also add some strengtheners once I have decided where the track is going.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-271119193300.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on November 28, 2019, 11:57:17 AM
My spirit level tends to be my Adam's Apple. It tells me when I'm full - hic :D
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 28, 2019, 07:53:24 PM
Hooray I have completed the basic frame of board four, which will be open plan. I need to finish the leg supports plus make the legs so a lot too do yet. Then of course these boards/ frames need painting. Now I can see the main outline of the layout, I need to work out how to fit the viaduct section to the right side of board four. The piece of wood on the end of the right board indicates the track height for the viaduct. The viaduct itself is 3" in height and is 2' long, my high level section will be 1"1/2", the viaduct sections also needs to lose a bit at both ends because the track comes down to rejoin the fiddleyard board. I can just manage to lose the height and keep the gradient to 2%. This layout will not have much straight track and the only track running pararell to the base board edge is the viaduct and that has a slight curve on it. The River Irwell that goes under the Viaduct will now continue on the other side going under the Monkey Bridge and continuing into the distance, possibly a road bridge if there is room. The only thing is on this layout the river is going the wrong way, in the real world Monkey bridge first then down stream to the road bridge and eventually under the Viaduct and through Radcliffe, but it's too late now, modelers licence applies, it is a fictional layout.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-281119193352.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 30, 2019, 06:11:46 PM
I did not manage to get much done yesterday, I did  manage to make the left leg, it needs two more legs adding to make a "L" shape fame the same as the other side. I have also fixed a piece of 9mm ply to the left corner, the space is where the viaduct section will fit in. I have cut that down to the minimum size, just over 2', the track will come over the viaduct then the track will lose height and into a tunnel. not sure if the track will curve before the tunnel or inside it, then eventually joining the fiddle yard.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-301119180044.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-301119180257.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on November 30, 2019, 07:12:17 PM
It's starting to look like real progress, Chris.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on November 30, 2019, 09:44:12 PM
Thanks Laurence, I have finished the legs for the left end and have now glued the supports in, so waiting for the glue to dry. I am not sure what to do about the centre legs, they are just loose at the moment,the left one has not got a support yet. I need to make them rigid for forwards and backwards movement, I have two castors left so I could just make a square support. It does need to be has big as the one supporting the fiddle yard at the back, and I need to paint them. The left board frame is still very flimsy at the moment, it needs supports and cross rails. With it having varying track heights and a river, I need to work that before I put the cross rails in position. I am getting there, it all seems to be working out, some track down before Christmas........I hope!!!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on December 01, 2019, 06:39:28 AM
Yes, go for it Chris.  Set yourself the target of running at least one train by Christmas.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 01, 2019, 05:28:53 PM
More work this afternoon figuring how the under and over will work. Two double track lines one crosses over the other, one rising and one going lower, its all fun. I have now placed a crossrail and another piece of ply on the frame with a down gradient cutaway. The lower track will have sweeping curves, go under a bridge down a gradient through a cutting, then over the Monkey bridge over the River Irwell then curving again before dissapearing into a tunnel. The scenic challenges on this layout are going to be fun, but watching the trains will be fun too.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on December 01, 2019, 08:15:00 PM
Sounds like it will be great to see, and if you've completed your Crossrail you're miles ahead of the real thing :D
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 02, 2019, 09:00:34 PM
I have been busy today painting, I bought a tin of quick dry gloss this morning so a lot has been done. Once the painting has been done I can then contentrate on sorting the levels of track before laying.
Here is a pic of something I bought last week in a sale, I already have two cleaning wagons a Sharge and a Tomix. The Sharge is a little too wide and a bit high and tends to catch on platforms and some tunnels, I had to alter my passenger platform bridge because of it. But because of the configeration of this new layout with hidden track etc, I do need something I can run round on a regular basis. I will make the layout so all track can be reached somehow with removable scenery, hatches etc.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-021219205346.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on December 02, 2019, 09:33:26 PM
 :hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
   Good progress Chris, looking forward to seeing trains running
       regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 03, 2019, 10:41:46 PM
More progress today, all the catches are now on connecting the boards together, some by nescesity are underneath the boards. I have also been working on fitting the viaduct section, care has been taken with this it is important to get the height correct. And provision has been made to extend the river behind the viaduct. I have also worked out how to fit the last leg in place, this will need to be shorter than the others because of the lower viaduct board. The next thing to do is to extend the river and boards behind the viaduct, the Monkey bridge will also cross the river with possibly a weir between the two bridges, that is good because the river needs be dropping towards the viaduct. I also intend to have a cutaway in front of the viaduct section so you can view the area of the factory and viaduct. Possibly some pics tomorrow night of the viaduct in position, waiting for glue to dry on the leg support at the moment.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 04, 2019, 04:30:05 PM
More progress, the viaduct section has been sorted, not glued in yet but I am nearly there. Plus I have cutaway the front frame for better viewing of the viaduct and factory, a even better view than when it was on the old layout.  Just need to finish the centre leg section then I can start on the river and positioning the Monkey bridge.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-041219162649.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on December 04, 2019, 05:09:21 PM
That seems to fit in very well, Chris.  :beers:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on December 04, 2019, 06:13:01 PM
Looking good Chris.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 04, 2019, 07:42:01 PM
Thanks for the reply's, this is just the first piece of the jigsaw puzzle, more to come.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 05, 2019, 08:13:30 PM
The centre leg section is finished, just has well I was running out of screws. It has now been painted, primer yesterday and gloss tonight. I was not happy with the finish on the front boards with the water based gloss so I gave them a coat of oil based gloss which looks a lot better. I can start work on the track bed levels next, I can not do that tonight I need to use the jigsaw which is a bit noisy, thinking, of the neighbours, children in bed etc. Getting so near now to laying the track, I can not wait to do that and see my plan come to fruition. I should have some trains running by Christmas, back to watching the snooker for now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 05, 2019, 09:43:54 PM
Thought I would add this pic of the completed baseboard assys all fixed together with catches and dowels. I can now concentrate on building the actual layout, getting some track down, I have already bought over half a box of code 55 ready.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-051219214129.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrism on December 06, 2019, 07:00:53 AM
That viaduct's looking rather impressive.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 06, 2019, 09:58:09 AM
Thanks @chrism (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7182) that is the only complete unit from my old layout East Lancashire lines. The viaduct is actually oo gauge,at the time it was built Metcalfe  did not do a n gauge viaduct.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 07, 2019, 09:44:52 PM
More work tonight, worked out the dimensions for extending the  river bed and used some old ply off the old layout. I have also fixed some ply in position for the track in one of the low sections with a small gradient, that needs a strengthener yet. I have also laid out a rough track plan on the right board so I can work out where the lower track transverses the river. I have not glued the viaduct in position yet to make it easier to work on the river behind it, it has some slight damage but that will easily be fixed. I am now waiting for the proverbal glue to dry, once I have something worth showing I will post more pics.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on December 07, 2019, 10:02:56 PM
 :hellosign:
   Thanks Chris, looking forward to seeing more presently.
       regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 08, 2019, 08:49:27 PM
More progress, work today was getting the river bed in place behind the viaduct so I can work out the levels. Next I need to sort the foundations for the monkey bridge, where the track will go etc. I am not sure what is going here yet, one idea is where the river meets the back board, I will place a roadbridge to disguise the end of the river. In front of the real monkey bridge on one side it is a flat area, I could also make a road going under one of the arches leading to the factory. One of the pics I have posted is a un seen view of the viaduct from the other side. Getting there now doing the basic scenery structures, still not glued the viaduct in position yet till I have done the basics.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-081219203503.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-081219203647.jpeg)
You can see a few repairs need doing on the last pic, but it still looks not too bad.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-081219203830.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: exmouthcraig on December 08, 2019, 08:54:48 PM
Can you use a mirror Chris to hide the end of the river????

Viaduct looks fantastic  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 08, 2019, 09:10:02 PM
Thanks for the comments, yes a mirror is a possibility, I will probably go with a road bridge, there is one at the location of the monkey bridge.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: railsquid on December 09, 2019, 01:02:28 AM
Looking good   :thumbsup:

Out of curiosity, why is it called the monkey bridge?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on December 09, 2019, 09:43:17 AM
'Cos it apes the prototype :-X
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Bealman on December 09, 2019, 09:47:37 AM
I was thinking that the prototype may have been in Hartlepool. They hung the monkey, afterall  ;D
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 09, 2019, 10:02:56 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments @railsquid (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3832) the bridge goes over the river Irwell and is very low it also has a walkway between the arches and the girders across the river. It is still in use today now used by the Bury to Manchester tram.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 09, 2019, 04:09:38 PM
A few pics of the real Monkey bridge over the river Irwell. The first pic shows the side with the passageway on the side of the girders. Then a pic from the other side and then the passageway itself.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-091219160153.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-091219160321.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1784-091219160425.jpeg)

Hopefuly I will post pics of my model later.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Milton Rail on December 09, 2019, 07:12:27 PM
Just caught up with your new layout Chris, is looking good already, the viaduct looks right at home there

Look forward to seeing it come to life as well as finding out more about the Monkey Bridge!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 09, 2019, 08:12:16 PM
Thanks @Milton Rail (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4934) for the comments, I have dropped a clog with the river. I should have thought more about where the railway crosses it, should have made a straighter section. So redirectiong the river tonight so I can fit the bridge in place. The bridge I made for my first layout, it was made to fit the river on the layout and I made the bridge a bit shorter than the real bridge, I was also struggling to find components to make the bridge. If it had been made a bit longer I would not of had a problem, I will make it fit somehow, it needs some maintainance too.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 09, 2019, 08:20:39 PM
I have been to B&Q tonight for some more ply wood, I was going tomorrow but I saw the weather forcast and went tonight instead. Tomorrow the plan is to get the rest of the lower level track sorted where it crosses over the Monkey bridge. I will be able to use my jigsaw to cut the wood tomorrow afternoon so that will be fun. I need to make a section where the track is going down a small gradient to the river, the plan is to cut it out of one piece of wood. Once I have done that I could possibly make a start on laying the lower track level from the fiddle yard. The hardest part will be the three baseboard joins, the plan is to use the screw method, soldering the track onto the screws which worked quite well on East Lancashire lines. I then will have three base board joins at high level to do, that will be fun and a challenge, I love a challenge.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 10, 2019, 09:49:02 PM
Today I have been working on the levels again, its just a bit tricky. I am using 3.6mm ply for the open section and to be honest its a bit too thin, I could have used some 9mm ply. So I have put a strengthing strip down the sides, I knew that strip would come in handy lucky I bought it. I will continue using the thin ply it is easy to cut, I might double up on any long sections.
 I have also laid some cork on the right end of the fiddle yard board ready to lay some track. I am using a plan out of a setrack book which has 4 tracks, but I intend too add at least a extra track on each side and maybe a point back facing and using that has a end siding for extra storage. I intend to have a crossover but have decided to put that in the middle like I did on East Lancashire lines. The main use for that will be to allow my DMU to crossover and return down the other track if required. The two centre tracks will also be the through lines, something I did not do on the old layout. I have ordered a few points and some more track ballast from Rails so I will wait for those to come before starting laying the track. I thought I had plenty of points but sods law I do not have all the ones I require.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 11, 2019, 08:25:23 PM
More work tonight on the monkey bridge section, it is a slight gradient so no rushing I need to get it right. it is important to get the baseboard join bang on between the two scenic boards. I was luck on the last layout I managed to disguise the joins with either a tunnel or a bridge of some sort. On this layout it will be a little harder to disguise the join between boards, especially the track join.
I ordered some points and ballast from Rails and I have not had confirmation of my order, I have been out this afternoon and by the time I realised it was too late to ring them. The order is still showing has unconsigned/pending, I chose the Royal mail 24hr option so that was a waste of time. I will have to ring them tomorrow now to find out what is going on, very dissapointed now. Trouble is I usually go out on a Friday and Royal mail do not tend to leave with a neighbour, that means going to the sorting office to collect.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on December 12, 2019, 06:40:18 AM
Online orders can be good most of the time, but sometimes they are a nightmare.  Rails are usually very good though.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Johndra on December 12, 2019, 07:34:06 AM
Hi Chris.

Just read your progress posts. I particularly like your viaduct. I have started a layout (progress is slow) and modelling my viaduct section is the starting point.

I will be interested in your progress.

Cheers
John.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 12, 2019, 05:24:00 PM
Well I found out the problem with my Rails order, they had no stock of the ballast I had also ordered. So I cancelled the ballast so the order can proceed.it is a pity they did not let me know what the delay was. At the end of the day if I am not in for delivery I will collect on Saturday morning from the local sorting office.
Last night I finished the track support over the river, glued in position now and covered in cork ready for the track. I have now started to put down the layers of varnish for the river, it's water based and quick drying. I might use the toilet paper technique to give the river bed some structure along with a mixture of acrylic paints. I have also prepared the baseboard join for two of the tracks, I placed two pieces of track in position, then sprayed over with some paint to mark the position. When the paint is dry, It is easy then to fix the screws in place ready for soldering the track in place to the screws. I have glued the cork with pva but I intend to glue the track using Copydex. Once the track is glued down I will sort where the feeds are going, I want to be more organised with the feeds this time, they were all over the place on the last layout. I have kept all the bus wires from the old layout, I will sort out which ones are suitable and organise the feeds to match the bus wire to avoid any more soldering. I have a few sorts of solderless connections I can use where needed.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 12, 2019, 05:30:46 PM
Thanks John, @Johndra (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7918) , this is my third layout since retiring from work. You learn a lot in this hobby, hopefully I will avoid any of the mistakes made on the previous two layouts. The viaduct is a old hand, it has been on all three layouts. It was originally curved then straighten'd out a bit for the last layout, un touched this time but it does need some repair work.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on December 12, 2019, 06:03:01 PM
Thanks John, @Johndra (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7918) , this is my third layout since retiring from work. You learn a lot in this hobby, hopefully I will avoid any of the mistakes made on the previous two layouts. The viaduct is a old hand, it has been on all three layouts. It was originally curved then straighten'd out a bit for the last layout, un touched this time but it does need some repair work.
In my experience Chris, you certainly learn from your mistakes in this hobby only to come across other mistakes which, hopefully youíll earn from next time.
Itís certainly one big learning curve but, of course, great fun.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Johndra on December 12, 2019, 06:14:24 PM
Thanks Chris @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784)

My last serious layout was in OO and was dismantled 50 years ago in the days when your landscape was built with chicken wire and papier mache. Then life, family and work got in the way. So I anticipate a lot of mistakes and back tracking.

I've started the mistakes in earnest by totally 'over-engineering' a section of the layout that I want to able to remove for access. When I finish rectifying things I'll post some photos in my thread 'Pitlochry - Killiecrankie - Dalwhinnie(maybe)'.

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47136.msg606740#msg606740 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47136.msg606740#msg606740)

The more I plan the less it is going to resemble Pitlochry , Killicrankie or Dalwhinnie but that's my inspiration. Mountains, river(s) and a viaduct.

Cheers

John
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on December 12, 2019, 07:21:42 PM
Yes, it's a pity they didn't let you know about the ballast when you ordered.  I have been using Noch Profi ballast, which looks good (at least to me).
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 12, 2019, 07:39:40 PM
Thanks laurence @Innovationgame (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3091) I use Woodland scenics fine dark brown ballast, which I think goes well with Railmatch sleeper grime on the track. I have been out this morning and purchased 2 bags from a model shop I use, not my local he did not have any. I knew he stocked it, that is where I bought from last time. The ballast was the same price has Rails although his Peco  code 55 points are a lot dearer, so I have saved a bit. I will not get chance now to lay some track till at least saturday night provided the points have come. No big deal there is a lot to do, four boards and track passing from one to the other, now where is that soldering iron ?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 12, 2019, 07:55:21 PM
A quick pic showing part of the monkey bridge in it's position on the layout, a lot of work is required yet.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-121219195309.jpeg)
The track loses about half a inch from right to left over the length of the section you see here with the bridge part way.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on December 12, 2019, 07:57:47 PM
Looking good Chris.
I like seeing layouts at this stage and then watching  them develop over time.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 12, 2019, 08:01:10 PM
Thanks Martin, I am getting nearer and nearer to laying some track.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on December 13, 2019, 07:13:35 PM
 :hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
  You are making excellent progress Chris, the Monkey bridge looking good
       regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 14, 2019, 07:23:51 PM
Well progress has come to a halt, Rails of sheffield have let me down, still waiting for parcel, with some points, ordered with 24hr tracking. No idea when I will get it now, probably after stay in all day Monday waiting again.
The plan is to have a small station with a passing loop plus a crossover from one track to the other, I want to use the new points for that. I should not have been to hopefull of delivery this week, I was expecting too much,typically the tracking site seems to have gone down very convenient that is. Last time I could track it said the parcel was in M/cr at 6.03 pm on Friday, nothing has updated since.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on December 14, 2019, 08:05:53 PM
Is that the Royal Mail site @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784) ? I am trying to track a parcel but no updates since yesterday lunchtime!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 14, 2019, 08:56:57 PM
@dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) yes last update time I had was 6-03pm last night. Its been the same all day today but now I can not access it at all seems to be down. It is Christmas so what do you expect, thats why I tried to order has soon as Tuesday, I did not want the delivery going into next week. Must admit that was on my phone not tried on the computer.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on December 14, 2019, 08:59:54 PM
Blame it on the the post! Oh, it is the post.  ;D
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 15, 2019, 08:42:53 PM
Well everyone, I can not lay the track but while watching some snooker I managed to make a start on the river bed using the loo paper and glue method, I will leave that to dry now.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-151219204125.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 16, 2019, 09:30:38 PM
Another bad day today regarding the parcel ( I am waiting for with some new points). I rung Rails twice this morning and later this afternoon, they just kept fobbing me off. I checked the tracking this morning and nothing had moved since Friday at 6.03pm. So this afternoon I tried Royal mail online then ringing Royal mail myself but that was a waste of time too. Anyway eventually this afternoon I checked tracking again and it had moved to 4.40pm this afternoon, so maybe somebody found it. I will keep my fingers crossed for possibly tomorrow, pretty good really when I ordered it with 24hr tracking last Tuesday Night.
Re the river bed well it is taking a long time to dry, I will have to see if I can find a hairdryer and use that to dry it out or it will be getting frost on it next.....lol.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 17, 2019, 04:23:05 PM
Well after such a ordeal waiting for my parcel from Rails it eventually arrived this morning, so much for 24 hour tracking. I have today been to the model shop I bought a tracksetta 3rd radius, which will help with the track laying. I also bought some plaster bandage ready for parts of the scenic areas. So I should now be able to get on with laying some track over the next few days.....hoooray......lol
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on December 17, 2019, 04:41:12 PM
Good news Chris.
Iím glad the parcel arrived, it can be very annoying waiting for deliveries. Especially when things are late.
Iím about to start on a new model railway related venture (for me anyway). Iím going to make some cast resin items (eg walling, barrels etc). However, the reason Iíve mentioned it here is that I ordered the kit (to make the moulds and the models) from N Ireland last Thursday. I had an email to say it would be delivered yesterday between 2.30 and 3.30 and it arrived at 2.45. So...sometimes it does work out (that was via DPD by the way).
Martin
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 17, 2019, 08:22:45 PM
Today I decided to do more work on the river, painted the river bed and a coat of acrylic varnish. I have just added some base supports for the monkey bridge, it was a little too low. I seem to be a few pieces missing off the monkey bridge, I will have a search for them and if required make some more. I have made the track bed a little narrow where the bridge fits but the plan is to add two strips of styrene onto the bridge itself. This wiil look like a walkway at the side of the track but also strengthen the bridge which is a little flimsy. Now I have the new points I can start to sort the track plan, I have not made my mind up where to start first. I think I should really start at the fiddle yard, this means seperating the boards again, then placing a piece of card between the fiddle yard boards so I can get a tight joint on the track. The fiddle yard will be controlled by two circuit breakers clockwise and anti clockwise. I had thought of left board and right board, but on a fault that would stop the whole layout from operating. I have not decided where all the electrical control boards are going yet. I can put them on the front of the layout but that will spoil the look so probably under the boards out of site.  The circuit breakers are already wired with a fault reset switch and two have a indicator light, it will be easy to wire a light on the other two boards. I am not sure if I will get trains running before Christmas, I do not want to rush this, it is imperative I get good running on this layout right from the start.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 18, 2019, 09:38:05 PM
More work tonight on the scenics, the basic infrustructre, pieces of wood ready for the scenery on the where the two scenic boards join. I thought it better too do this before laying the track over the section, it is important where the two boards join. They seem to get seemless scenery joins on the show layouts, some are better than others of course. Where it just a hill for example I will probably put a hedge or walls to disguise the join. I am also giving the river another coat of varnish, that is beggining to look good. Here is a pic showing the joining boards, there is card between them to stop the two scenic baseboards being joined at the hip.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-181219213610.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 18, 2019, 09:41:45 PM
By the way I should add the river looks white again, but that is the varnish it dries clear. Just thought I will add I need to start preliminary work on the points soldering the frog wires. One of the mistakes I made on the layout was wiring the point motors with red and green wire and then using another shade of red wire for the frogs, I had a shortage of wire at the time. I am going to use a different colour fro the frogs this time so I need to re wire any of the older points and change the colour. I only just remembered that, so the soldering iron will be coming out over the next few days.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on December 19, 2019, 06:40:13 AM
Good idea, Chris.  I use red and black for the point motors and green for the frogs.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 19, 2019, 09:17:02 PM
Thanks Laurence, the thing is I have lots of lengths of green and red fixed together so it would make sense to use those again for point motors. I will use black for the frogs, the old solenoid motors had 3 colours, I used red and green again and I used black has a common return, so I have lengths of black too, seems a shame to waste all that wire. Also the new unifrog points I have just been supplied have wires attached and I have lots of black heat shrink I can use. I still need to work out how I am working the point motors with the Cobalt Alpha. It has 12 switches so 12 points but you can use 2 or more motors with one switch. My plan is to have the four main fiddle yard controlling points, 2 at each end seperately controlled, then any other tracks will be controlled by one switch ie a motor at each end and also a crossover of two points also controlled by one switch. I have a mixture of Cobalt Digital IP motors and I also have some anolouge motors using a AD2FX, so there is some fun to be had wiring that lot up. I need to seperate the scenic boards from the fiddle yard then seperate the two fiddle yard boards themselves, then place a piece of card between the fiddle yard boards then connect the two fiddle yard boards back. When I have layed the fiddle yard track over the join I can then cut the track using a cutting disc. Then removing the card from between the boards and you then get a close joint. Both sides of the fiddle yard boards will be on the same circuit breakers. When I come to the joins between the fiddle yard boards and the scenic boards I will not use the card, I made that mistake on the old layout, and sometimes I did not get seperation of the sections probably caused by expansion or movement of some track. I also intend to wire in some way of splitting the track wiring into sections to help tracking any faults. That way fault finding will be a lot easier, its a biggish layout it makes sense to do it at this stage.
Tonight I have just done some more scenic work, I was not feeling like soldering, will probably make a start now on the soldering on Saturday night, back to the scenics......
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on December 20, 2019, 06:23:37 AM
That sounds like good progress, Chris.  I found the frog connector on the Unfrogs a real advantage.  It saved having to muck about with a soldering iron on the rails.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 22, 2019, 08:22:06 PM
Some more scenic work tomight, I decided to get the main infrustructre for the monkey bridge in place before laying the track. It involves plaster woodland scenics shaper sheet, plaster bandage, bits of foam and glue ie messy. Things are taking shape, the track in a clockwise direction will pass over a small rail over road bridge before going over the monkey bridge. I found the missing piece of the monkey bridge which is good news. It has eight pillars, two at each end on either side with a small arched walkway between them. The end pillars when the bridge was installed on the first layout I made were cut down, ie hidden by the undergrowth. I might make a couple more pillars or try to make them look better somehow, I will see how the bridge looks when I fit it in place. The hardest part is where the two scenic boards join, I want the scenery to hide the join, that is the challenge. At the moment there is clamps etc holding walls in place etc when things are looking a bit more like I will post some pics.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 22, 2019, 09:42:01 PM
Just thought I would Merry Christmas to everyone on the site and a Happy New Year, here's hoping we all get something nice off Santa.......
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 23, 2019, 03:21:35 PM
Well I have been out shopping this morning, model railway shopping not the other kind. I have bought some Woodland scenics shaper sheet plaster and some more plaster bandage. I must admit I bought the Woodland scenics type which is a bit dear but I will see how it compairs to the cheap stuff I bought last week. I have also bought some strips of wood to fix the back boards to the layout. I have always fixed them on the back or side of the boards but because I have my two front scenic boards connected to the fiddle yard boards I can not do that now. So the plan is too fix the 20mmx20mm on the top of the scenic boards at the back and then fix the boards onto that. I need to get some boards fitted so I can plan the scenery, I do not like the big open spaces on the boards. I am off now to get the wood cutting done, I might post some pics later.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on December 23, 2019, 03:22:01 PM
 :hellosign:
    Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to you and yours Chris, look forward to your progress on Irwell Valley.
          regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 23, 2019, 03:25:12 PM
Look forward to progress chris.erm, thats boxing day scenery work when all the repeats are on tv. Happy christmas
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 23, 2019, 04:19:29 PM
Thanks for the reply's yes I am planning on working on the railway hopefully boxing day. I have just taken a break from sawing some plywood, I will just pull a few of these splinters out of my hand and then carry on. I usually lay the track and then start on the scenics this time I am doing the basic scenery first. Merry Christmas everyone.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 23, 2019, 05:05:14 PM
Just thought I would post a quick pic of the scenic backboards I have made for the rh scenic section. I have cut the ply wood ready for the lh side, I only have so many clamps, waiting for the glue to dry now. One has a tunnel cutaway for the track, it will need another cutaway for the high level, I will do that once I know exactly where the track will come through.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-231219170132.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 23, 2019, 09:09:24 PM
More work tonight, just painted the two boards with primer so hopefully I should be able to fit them tomorrow when the paint is dry.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 24, 2019, 10:04:29 PM
Well more work today, I finished the two left back scenic boards including painting them. A few refinements to the boards were made too, to help them butt together.
 I have drawn a rough plan of the proposed layout, bare in mind this is a rough drawing by hand and not bang on to scale. No curves are tighter than second radius, where the two front boards join in the centre, the track is straight where it crosses the boards not curved like on the drawing. There are a few gradients on the track, where the line from the station crosses the monkey bridge the track is going down to the left corner where it then passes under the line from the viaduct which is starting to lose height., that might be in a tunnel yet. There will also be a crossover in the station, I forgot to add it in the drawing which was my second attempt. I am also considering a few small sidings off the loop in the station to give some more running prospects, possibly some shunting. The straightest track is in the station and the track over the viaduct but that is slightly curved.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-241219215238.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on December 25, 2019, 09:07:24 AM
A decent run for locos to stretch their legs and it should also look great scenically.
Nice one, Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 25, 2019, 08:10:03 PM
Thanks Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) , notice no track running pararell to the sides and nice sweeping curves. Merry Christmas hope your mum is ok too.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 28, 2019, 07:12:31 PM
A few Railway related Items I have received for Christmas. The book is very good, I have nearly read everything in it. The two wagons are a GF 12 ton vent van weathered, and a 12 ton pipe wagon. Also a track rubber and with some money I have bought a Dremel 3000 kit, pity it has no chuck but I have ordered one of those off e-bay. I need the Dremel to help laying the track, the Rotocraft I have been using is ok but lacks any power, plus I had trouble with finding a collet to fit the cutting disc I was using which is essential for my 12 planned track joins.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-281219191200.jpeg)
All the best to everyone for the New Year.........
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrispearce on December 28, 2019, 08:10:14 PM
A tidy plan!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrispearce on December 29, 2019, 06:49:01 PM
I am seriously going to stick my little head above the parapet here but I have a question about the trackplan. Why is the viaduct at the front of the layout with the Monkey Bridge etc. behind it? Won't it block the view of the Monkey Bridge? If the lower line, with Monkey Bridge, was at the front with the viaduct behind wouldn't that make more sense?

It is merely me thinking and typing aloud for which I apologise. :(
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 29, 2019, 10:15:39 PM
Yes @chrispearce (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4141) I know what you mean about the bridges, the viaduct section has not been fixed in position yet, actually when I place it in position you can see the Monkey bridge ok. Its all to do with the gradients and the room needed to get things up and down and keep to the max 2% rule. The viaduct at the front gives me just enough track length to get it down to the level before the fiddle yard, it's only 1 and half inches height, but I have lowered the viaduct the same amount at the front, the viaduct is 3" high. I will fit the viaduct in position permanently after laying the lower track, then lay the high level track.
Today I have been doing some more work with the soldering iron, first remove all the red frog wires from the used points and replace with a black wire. I am also tinning the rails at the toe end, ready for feed wires. I have also bought a packet of Peco PL82 for in case I get stuck with a feed to some point feeds, I probably will not need them because I am happy with the tinning I am doing, plus the wires are not the same colour has my feeds. I have had some trouble with the new curved point I bought, the frog link wire came loose so I have had to carefully solder it back, I melted a few sleepers in the process but underneath so it does not show. I have prepared 10 points today so happy with that for a start. I prefer to solder the feed wires to the side of the track even on the scenic sections, it is easy to disguise the joints. I used to solder under the rails but if one comes loose you cannot see that once ballasted, so its harder for fault finding. I have used my helping hands doing the soldering, it sure makes life a lot easier.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrispearce on December 29, 2019, 10:51:03 PM
That all makes perfect sense. Thanks Chris.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on December 30, 2019, 10:06:17 PM
More soldering tonight whle the railway program on CH5 is on the tv. Love the sound of that Loco working, that's what adheres me to steam, what I remember from being on the railways has a child.
Back to the soldering, I realised I have made a mistake, I have been using the wrong gauge wire for the frogs, think it's 16/02, whatever its too heavy. I have found some that is more suitable so tonight I have been changing the wires over. Just for clarity some of you may be wondering where I tin the end of the points, here is a pic showing the tinning and the frog wire soldered underneath the pint. Where the point is tinned I use a craft knife between the sleepers to cut away the webbing, I scrape the side of the rail apply some no clean flux then touch with the iron with the solder. This is where the helping hands comes in use,avoid letting the solder run to the end of the track or you will have trouble fitting the fishplates ie tilting the point helps. By the way the point is a code 55 large radius SLE389F. When the track is laid simply drill a hole next to the point and feed a tinned feed wire up through the hole, press the wire against the side of the track, and you need a steady hand for this touch with the soldering iron and hey presto feed wire fitted.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-301219220104.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 01, 2020, 10:57:30 PM
Some more work tonight, I have finished the soldering ie preparing the points old and new. Out of all the old points only one is unsusable so that's not too bad, I might find a use for it has check point we shall see. I have disconnected the right front scenic board, I still need to remove the left board too. Then I can seperate the two fiddle yard boards and place some card between them, then lay the fiddle yard track across the join. I plan to lay most of the track but not the two curved ends, I will leave them till the boards are connected up again. I want a close joint with the fiddle yard boards but the scenic sections will be on different circuit breakers so the last thing I need is touching rails between sections. I need to leave room for track expansion with the temperature changes in this loft room.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrispearce on January 01, 2020, 11:37:43 PM
Thanks for that timely bit of inspiration Chris! Joining the boards with a piece of card in between, laying the track in a single length then cutting it wouldn't have occurred to me. Now THAT is an excellent idea.

Many thanks!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 02, 2020, 10:30:11 AM
Thanks Chris, I learned it on here so its good to pass it on. The hard bit is soldering to the screws,to place the screws in the correct position I place a piece of old track over the join and give it quick blast of a rattlecan of acrylic paint. That leaves a outline of the track and makes it easy to place the screws correctly,then adjust them for height.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on January 02, 2020, 06:23:14 PM
Hi Chris,

I use single strand 24 AWG wire stripped from Cat5 network cable for all my wire droppers, it's a lot easier to use than 16/0.2

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 02, 2020, 07:23:21 PM
@lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784)  - Happy New Year, I've been reading the post with interest, keep us posted on how it's going!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 02, 2020, 07:25:21 PM
Thanks John @jpendle (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3871) I must admit I used cable from mains for my droppers on the old layout. This time I am using thinner wire, it is thinner than 16/02, I have two reels Blue and Brown the same colour has on the mains cable I am using for the bus wires. I have started fixing the track down, I have two points down at the end of the fiddle yard, so making slow progress. I have decided to tin the sides of the rails for the feeds has I go along to make things easier when I start the wiring itself. I can then just pop the tinned feed wires through from under the board and touch with the soldering iron against the track and points, easy.
Back to work now, just working on a crossover on the fiddle yard, after that the only hard bit will be soldering to the screws on the board join.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 02, 2020, 07:26:53 PM
Thanks @DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745) , Happy New Year to you too. I am getting some track down at last.......wheeeeee lol

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 02, 2020, 09:42:13 PM
Work today, giving it a rest now my knees are hurting. I have laid some track down in the fiddle yard, including 5 sets of points. One was one of the new unifrogs, no pesky insulated joiners required. I am pinning the track down in the fiddle yard and I am using a mixture of points, the first two which lead onto the curves I am using Large radius. I figured it would be easier on the loco's from the curve especially the anti clockwise direction. I have done the crossover the hardest part now is the board joins. Here are a few pics, the first shows my soldering setup for the points etc. the second a close up of where I solder the sides of the rail on code 55. the third shows some track down at last.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-020120213549.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-020120213808.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-020120213908.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on January 02, 2020, 10:17:53 PM
Hi,

You might want to try soldering to the bottom of the code 55, I think it's easier than soldering to the side of the track.
I cut out just enough webbing to lay a wire under the first track and solder it to the second, I also cut out a bit more webbing on the first track to solder the other wire to. This means that the solder joints are hidden and there's less chance of melting sleepers, also, as I use twisted pair wires (Cat5 cable again!) it means that both wires can go through a hole on one side of the track and remain twisted.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 03, 2020, 12:01:11 AM
High John, @jpendle (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3871) , I solder to the side of the track because I find it is easier for fault finding and I find it easier to lay the track. I drill a small hole at the side between the sleeper, and just pop the tinned wire up, touch against the side of the track and touch with the iron, you do need a steady hand. It should be even easier this time has I plan on using the thinner wire I mentioned before. I intend to lay the track then when finished do all the feeds at the same time.
 I soldered to the bottom of the code 55 track on my first layout, the trouble was some of the wires came loose, I was using thicker wire at that time. I found that I had  to pull the track up or solder wires to the side of the track, its fairly easy to do and disguise once the ballast is down and of course in the fiddle yard it does not matter.
I have glued some more cork down so leave that to dry now, I will start again on Saturday laying some more track.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on January 03, 2020, 09:42:48 AM

 I soldered to the bottom of the code 55 track on my first layout, the trouble was some of the wires came loose, I was using thicker wire at that time. I found that I had  to pull the track up or solder wires to the side of the track

I reckon that's the telling comment. Sure, soldering to the base of the rail makes it invisible but............if a wire comes loose................. :worried:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on January 03, 2020, 06:12:05 PM

 I soldered to the bottom of the code 55 track on my first layout, the trouble was some of the wires came loose, I was using thicker wire at that time. I found that I had  to pull the track up or solder wires to the side of the track

I reckon that's the telling comment. Sure, soldering to the base of the rail makes it invisible but............if a wire comes loose................. :worried:

Then I just solder it back to the side  :D

And don't forget with a degree in electronics from the University of Liverpool, I'm a soldering whizz, NOT.

We were led to believe that there would be people to do that for us  :doh:

Oh, and do all the typing as well.

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 03, 2020, 11:34:01 PM
I know what you mean John but with my way I am soldering the side of the track before I lay it, which enables me to be very carefull not to damage the sleepers. I have soldered to the side of the rail in situ before, but you really need a steady hand, it is definately a lot more difficult. I will stick to this way now, it is what works for me best.
I have not done much today in the railway room, I did manage to cut some ply for fixing to the back of the fiddle yard boards, I even give them a coat of primer. I do not want any stock falling off the back of the boards, plus it will give some protection to the high level track at the back from the sloping roof ceiling. And of course the boards are all on wheels, I have moved them forward a bit while I work on the track, it is still too low for even a small guy like me hence the sore knees yesterday lol.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 05, 2020, 09:19:10 PM
More work on the layout, back boards on the fiddle yard, I have fitted and painted in primer. I have made them 3" in height, any higher would stop the layout from going back under the eaves. They serve two purposes, protect the trains from falling off at the back especially when I will be moving the layout and at the moment they prevent my tools from falling off the back. Tonight I have laid a piece of track over the board join and successfully soldered the rails to the brass screws. I have had to make a decision tonight on the length of the fiddle yard sidings, I want the sidings at least two of them to take a train with six coaches, I was struggling just a bit so I have made the decision to pinch 6" off the down gradient. It will mean the anti clockwise direction will have a slightly steeper incline than I wanted but from previous experience with my first layout which had a steeper gradient I am pretty sure it will be ok, sometimes compromises have to be made. I will post some pics when I get some more track down in the near future.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 07, 2020, 12:17:58 AM
More prgress today, I now have a double track through the middle of the fiddle yard with both tracks soldered to the screws at the board join. I have also started on the gradient section on the back of the fiddle yard. I have cut the pieces from 9mm ply using my jigsaw a lot easier than by hand but not has straight.  But I also cut some curved ply with the jigsaw ready for the curved sections I need, also a lot easier than by hand. The plan is to try and sort most of the track on the fiddle yard before joining the scenic sections back and of course the wiring points motors and the track feeds, also needs sorting before connecting back up again.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 07, 2020, 09:34:09 PM
Tonight I have been working on the high level woodwork. It is a 6' incline 3' on each board to a height of 1.5 inches before it curves too the right to join the scenic board. I have used 9mm ply mounted on softwood blocks calcullated to give the correct height and it feels solid, it is glued and screwed. I have left the curved section, just screwed for now so I can remove it while I lay the lower curved track. I have thought of making it removable but it would complicate things because at one end is the baseboard join which is also high level, difficult enough already. A couple of pics showing the progress.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-070120213148.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/1784-070120213259.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 08, 2020, 11:01:01 PM
More track down tonight I made another siding but then changed my mind about using a long radius point I used. I realised it compromised my siding for a 6 coach train, so I changed it to a small radius point. I am trying to avoid buying any more points, I still have another 4 small radius points left from the old layout to you use up plus a couple of y points. I have three brand new points plus a curved point which I have saved for the scenic section. I am not sure about those curved points, I have had trouble with one on the old layout we shall see how it works out.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on January 09, 2020, 06:36:33 AM
I have half a dozen curved points in my storage loops and they don't cause any problems.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 09, 2020, 09:36:31 AM
Thanks Laurence, the one i had trouble with was leading into the station from a long curve. I had trouble with certain locos that caused a short, i even bought a back to back gauge to check locos with. I managed to ease the problem but never completly solved it. I was planning on the using the same curved point on the new layout, I might use the long radius point instead and bite the bullet and buy some more medium radius points.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on January 09, 2020, 10:57:48 AM
At the front of 'Kimbolted' I have curved points off curves on both inner and outer ovals leading to large radius points to form a 'common' third loop and don't have any issues with them.
Hope you can solve your problem, Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 09, 2020, 05:02:19 PM
Today I bit the bullet and went to one of my local model shops and bought 4 medium code 55 points, they are still the old stock not unifrog. I have just spent the last hour preparing them for fitting, feed tinning points and a frog wire.I hope to do more on the fiddle yard tonight.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 09, 2020, 05:12:26 PM
Yes Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) not sure what my problem was caused by but I spent a lot of time trying to solve it. I painted the side of the switch rails at one point, I tried fitting a check rail before the point, I checked back to back's and they were within the correct tolerances. I ended up not running certain loco's in that direction to avoid the point, maybe it was just that one point I had some more curved points in the fiddle yard too. This layout is not set in stone yet so I may change the plan, I have a brand new curved point but that is the opposite hand for where the loop re joins the main line, I seem to remember the  troublsome loco's would go over the point in the reverse direction with no problem. Back now to track laying, and then I might start on some feed wiring so I can run something.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on January 09, 2020, 05:14:44 PM
Today I bit the bullet and went to one of my local model shops and bought 4 medium code 55 points, they are still the old stock not unifrog. I have just spent the last hour preparing them for fitting, feed tinning points and a frog wire.I hope to do more on the fiddle yard tonight.
Well done Chris.  Keep biting the bullet (but don't swallow any lead!  :D)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 09, 2020, 10:32:03 PM
Four tracks now in the fiddle yard it is begginning to look like a fiddle yard at last. I have also made some track feed wires and installed some of them to the track. I was using my trusty soldering workstation to tinn the track for the feed points as required has I lay the track. To save time I dug out another soldering iron I have thinking I could use that just for the wires unfortunately it is a bit too big, I melted a few sleepers. I have a even older soldering iron which I think still works with a small bit, so on my next session I will try that one. The aim is to try and get all the fiddle yard board tracks laid including the high level gradient.
I have made the decision to wire the track through two PSX circuit breakers, the down line and the up line will run independant of each other. In other words a short on one breaker will not shut the whole fiddle yard down like on my old layout. I also plan to do something similar on the two scenic boards. Once the fiddle yard board has all its track laid I can turn it on its side to do the wiring then I am getting down to the nitty gritty, and some trains running.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 10, 2020, 09:38:02 PM
 :hellosign:
  Thanks for the latest updates Chris, excellent progress & looking forward to seeing trains running.  :thumbsup:
        regards Derek.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 12, 2020, 04:46:26 PM
Some hard work last night and this afternoon, my knees are aching a bit now from kneeling. I have now laid most of the fiddle yard tracks and I have soldered all of them to the screws at the board join with no problems. I have made a head shunt on both ends of the smallest siding at the front and just one head shunt on the back track, there was no room at the other end. This should enable me to run the odd longer train around if I want too in both directions. The length of the fiddle yard itself is dictated by the gradient track lines coming in from the left and of course the curves at each end but some compromise has had to be made to allow some decent length trains and some good running prospects. The next main job now is the two high level lines across the back, I have the screws in place and tinned already. Here is a pic showing progress so far.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-120120163849.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 13, 2020, 10:00:34 PM
Today I have added some track to the high level across the baseboard joint. I have soldered the track to to the screws and feed wires on one side. I have been having a go at drawing a plan of the fiddle yard, I just need something to use has a wiring diagram where the feeds are etc, now on my third attempt. I have also fitted some more feed wires to the tracks then I run out of tinned feed wires so decided to make some more ready for tomorrow. The main thing is all the tracks now across the baseboard joint are soldered so I am ready to cut the rails that is a job for tomorrow afternoon. I should then be able to split the two boards and make a start on wiring underneath the boards. I have not made my mind up how I am going to aproach this yet. On my last fiddle yard wires where all over the place. Most of the point motors are in the centre and at each end so it would make sense to run the point motor bus down the centre. I will then run two feed buses down the outside of each board. The bananna plugs and jump leads I used on the old layout worked well so I will continue to use those on this layout, the only problem with them is they are the wrong colour, I might add a bit of paint to them this time. I am looking forward to getting some trains running.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 14, 2020, 08:33:43 PM
Nearly there, feeds to all track on the right side of the fiddle yard including the points is completed. I need to make some more feed wires to finish the job on the left board, so work in progress.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on January 14, 2020, 09:07:52 PM
You're working at quite a pace Chris.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 14, 2020, 09:39:30 PM
Thanks @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) I can tell you the best thing I have bought last year which I am using now is a automatic wire stripper. What a purchase that was, I saw Simon of "Simons Shed" fame ( Youtube)using one, what a good buy and such a time saver. Back to making the wires, nearly done enough for now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on January 14, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
I bought myself an automatic wire stripper a couple of years ago and I have had my monies worth out of it! Certainly beats the old trick of rolling a wire across a Stanley knife blade to cut the insulation!  :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on January 14, 2020, 10:41:07 PM
What's an 'automatic wire stripper'? Does it have batteries?

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 14, 2020, 10:56:16 PM
@jpendle (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3871) Hi John, it would be even better if it did, no its like a pair of grips. You put the wire between the jaws and squeeze the handle's, beats doing it with the cutters like I have been doing for years.
I should add I  have made all the wires I need for now. I have taken the card out between the boards, one or two track joints are not quite has close as most of them, should not cause any running problems I do not think.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on January 14, 2020, 11:07:48 PM
Thanks, I had a quick google and I assume you mean the ones where the grip 'automatically' cuts the insulation regardless of the wire thickness. As opposed to the 500 pound ones that run of the mains and meant for use in a factory  :D

I must admit that working in electronics I can't believe that yourself and @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) have been user cutters or a stanley knife??! That would drive me mad.

I have two sets of small gauge wire strippers, they aren't 'automatic' but they are way better than using my teeth!

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 15, 2020, 09:36:35 AM
Yes John these were less than £5 off e bay. I was quite good with the cutters, i had tried some strippers from the automotive use but found them difficult to use. My main problem was stripping wires in situ on the layout,trying to hold them tight without pulling the droppers off etc, these are so easy to use. I will finish the dropper soldering tonight and hopefully I can make a start on the main bus wires and where to place the control system. By the way i have never usŤd my teeth,probably the reason i still have some.......
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on January 15, 2020, 12:16:33 PM
I have to say that, although I have wire strippers of various types, for the last sixty years I have preferred to use a small pair of cutters.  There's a technique that I used to teach to budding electronics technicians.  It involves using your index finger between the handles to restrict the depth of cut, coiling the wire around your other index finger and pushing the knuckles of each hand against each other to effect the break in the insulation.  They used to pick up the technique quite quickly and, if you happen to need to strip insulation and there's no wire stripping tool handy, Bob (or someone else) is your uncle.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 15, 2020, 11:04:33 PM
I have today finished all the soldering all the feeds on the fiddle yard track, including the head shunts and the section of high level with track on. Tonight I decided to connect the left scenic board and lay the cork down for the low level track has it crosses the board join and then joins the high level ramp. I want to do the board joins where the track crosses over, I need to also sort the other track that is decending over the board join and then joins the left side of the fiddle yard, in other words I want to complete all the track on the fiddle yard board and solder the feeds for those has well before turning the board over.
I have not yet made my mind up where all the control boards are going and where I am placing the command station. I have been lucky too I have managed to buy three more Cobalt digital IP motors this week, I now have eight digital plus a couple of AD2fx boards so I can use some of my anolouge motors. I need to go again tomorrow to the model shop I need some more cork, having so many curves is a bit wastefull.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-150120230025.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 16, 2020, 09:19:20 PM
I am making progress now, I have laid track over the joint between the fiddleyard and the left scenic board, shown on my last pic. One of the hardist things I have found is trying to get a smooth transition from a gradient, espically at the board joint. The double track is now just short of the Monkey bridge, I still need to cut the joints with the cutting disc. I am concentrating on the fiddle yard boards for now. The next job I intend to undertake is the track from the viaduct that has to also go over the board joint but at a higher level, the track will be decending from the scenic board and then curve to join the fiddle yard tracks about 2' 6" from the left.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 16, 2020, 09:42:07 PM
Just thought I would post a pic showing the latest update. The signal box and front of the monkey bridge have been placed in position.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-160120214016.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 17, 2020, 09:49:11 PM
 :hellosign:
  Excellent progress Chris, thanks for the updates
       regards Derek.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 18, 2020, 11:09:00 PM
More progress tonight, I am working on the down gradient from the viaduct. I decided it was best to start at the viaduct and work back towards the fiddle yard. It's a bit of a fiddle, glueing pieces of wood and waiting for it to dry but I am getting there. I have a slight rise where the curved ply joins the straight section, I bit of sanding with the Dremel should sort that tomorrow. Anyway it is looking good and not as hard as I thought it might be. I will post pics when finished.

By the way just for anyone wondering the curved track shown on my post 177 has dropped half a inch and then goes back up to the fiddle yard. The track gradient from the viaduct that I am building now goes over this but is decending. That is the reason for the drop on the low level track and it has just worked out, I am pleased I got my figures right. Most of this part will be hidden under a hill, I will need to build in some access for track cleaning etc.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 19, 2020, 04:27:39 PM
This is my latest update, not bad while watching snooker has well. I have nearly completed the down gradient from the viaduct, the viaduct goes where the copydex bottle is. I need to finish the end of the ramp where it meets the fiddle yard points but that will be easier when I split the boards again. Tonight I will start on laying the track over the screws ready for soldering. I am quite please with the graidient I still manged to get it too 2% although it does include two curves. It will be good to run some trains and test it, that will be the big test. Of course I still need to do the right hand side yet so not finished by a long way but getting there.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-190120162008.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 20, 2020, 07:15:59 PM
Hi @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784)  - It depends on how long trains you want to run. Curves and gradients at the same time are possible, I built a helix about 2% and used the following:
I can get some, but not all, the steamers up this with a rake of 5 coaches, BUT diesels are no problem. You just need to test them. Let's hope all OK, but test before you nail down all the track and finish the viaduct!

IF you find a problem and it's too steep, can I suggest a fix whilst you are still in building mode? If you can, could you drop the height of the tracks that go under the "flyover" tracks? So the tracks below dip down say 5mm under the flyover tracks and level up again after. This means the "flyover" tracks can be at lower height too (leaving a minimum clearance between top of rail and bottom of the wood of say 30-35mm- or your tallest loco/wagon load if taller) and the gradient will be less. Also a trick I adopted was to glue the flyover tracks to a strip of 2mm thick plasticard just for the flyover section (use a width of card with 1cm or so clearance either side of the track, you can easily glue some Peco truss bridge sides to it if you want). The plasticard is much thinner than wood, so will give more clearance, but is solid enough to support the track with wooden pillars either side of the "flyover" section to hold it up.

Just a thought if you get stuck. I had to do both techniques on my layout at one point to reduce the gradients.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 20, 2020, 07:29:10 PM
Thanks @DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745) I looked into a helix at the start of this project but ruled it out on the width of it plus the height under the eves would have been a problem.  What you are suggesting about lowering the underpass  track is what I have done already. The track from the monkey bridge is on a down gradient and drops half a inch so that the track from the viaduct which is also on a down gradient will clear underneath, then it rises back up to the fiddle yard board before the incline at the back of the fiddle yard board. I have tried to keep curves to a minimum of 2nd radius, I have a slight problem with the track on the fiddle yard where it curves, I am planning on working on that tonight
Since I took that last pic I have laid track over the board joint on both  levels and soldered it in place and added the feed wires too. I now need to connect the curves up to the straights on the fiddle yard board, the outside tracks are no problem but the inner ones I need to take care with finishing the curves. Once I have done this I can then start on finishing the tracks over the joins on the right scenic board so then all tracks will have been laid on the fiddle yard board.   pics to follow.....
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 20, 2020, 10:57:08 PM
Sounds good! I see from the photo that the flyover tracks are on a wooden base, but I can't tell from the photo how thick, so you could fall back on the 2mm plasticard idea as a backup plan if you need it. Let's hope it all works well when you wire it up for the test run! Fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 21, 2020, 10:04:55 AM
Thanks I have used 9mm ply for the flyover, I was going to use thinner stuff but it was too flexible. I have tried to keep the clearence under the flyover to 1.5 inches to be honest it is a touch lower so i might just thin the ply over that section to give a bit more clearance. I managed to finish the end of the ramp last night but decided to leave it and let the glue dry.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 21, 2020, 09:59:46 PM
I have today fitted the remaining track between the decent from the viaduct and the fiddle yard. I have fitted the feed wires has I fitted the track presoldering the wires to the track before laying the track. I decided to pull up the overpass on the front scenic board so I can slim it down a touch, if I mess up I will just bridge the gap with plasticard or thinner ply. I need to goto the model shop again tomorrow, unfortunately last week I got the wrong thickness of cork, its too thin which has stopped me from any more progress untill tomorrow night. I am getting so near to completion of the track on the fiddle yard board, the next big job is to lay the track over the right board joins. Again there is two levels of track, this time one is high level but there are no gradients involved.
I might complete the track on the two scenic boards, this would complete the full circuit of track, so I could possibly test the track with a dc controller and a Jinty tank that has not been converted to dcc. Once this is done I can seperate the boards again and make a start wiring the bus and installing the point motors.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on January 21, 2020, 10:01:59 PM
You are getting on at a fair rate Chris.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 21, 2020, 10:10:19 PM
Thanks @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) I am desperate to run something soon, I want to wire up the track soon as possible.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 22, 2020, 04:46:01 PM
I have been to the model shop today I managed to get the correct size of cork this time. I also managed to purchase some tag strips, I think these will be better than using choc blocks and  not take up has much room especially on the fiddle yard board. I think they will be a lot tidier although of course they need soldering. This afternoon after playing snooker I have used my dremel to thin the ply on the flyover down a bit, I am a lot happier with it now it just needs glueing back in place. Tonight I am planning to work on the right fiddle yard board and finish laying the track over the board ends installing the required feeds has I go, I have eight pairs of feed wires I prepared last night.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 23, 2020, 08:55:14 PM
Well folks I made a error, I had calculated the rh corner curve from the fiddle yard points wrong somehow. I also forgot I need to install the rh scenic back board because the high level comes out through a hole in it and of course there is a track join there too. I had to use the jigsaw to make the back scene hole larger that done I have now fitted the back scene board to the front right baseboard, that was a pig of a job, under the eves did not make it any easier. Another problem the board was not sitting upright in otherwords square to the baseboard so I have found one of those old metal shelf brkts to give support. I have also fitted one of the old scenic boards to the side, it will need a access hole cutting in it for access in the tunnel. So now back to installing the track over the baseboard joint, more soldering required, I need to glue some cork down first.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on January 23, 2020, 09:42:36 PM
Just think of all the money gone into the 'Swearbox for railway purchases' though, Chris ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 23, 2020, 10:07:07 PM
Thanks Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) I need a new rh curved point for the lead into the station from the tunnel. Looking at the point I was going to use, it's damaged, sleepers at the toe end are missing and I think it was the point I had trouble with before so it's probably better to buy a new one.  The back board and right side board's are in place, the outer track now crosses the join, unfortunately on a curve but it is soldered in position now. The next job is the inner track then I can do the upper track which crosses over the lower track on the fiddle yard board.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 23, 2020, 10:16:55 PM
Chris. It's looking good but hopefully one will gain an insight into what went wrong and learn
 It will look good when you have that error made good and wiring which I dislike too come good. We are all here to help each other. Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 23, 2020, 10:40:08 PM
Thanks @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) The fiddle yard is a bit of a compromise, I had a plan which I changed slightly. The trouble with curves leading into fiddle yards is the room they waste at the front. Plus I need to leave room at the back for the high level ramp. I would have prefferred to have had a bit of straight track before the two points from the curve, has it happens the down track which is the inner leads into a large radius point, so that should ease it somewhat. On my old fiddle yard I had used code 80 curved points leading into the fiddle yard which made a couple of the sidings very long, maybe in the future I could change the right end. Its all coming together now the test will be when it is running trains.
I also have a idea for my electrics after seeing a video on youtube. I intend to put the electronic units on a board fitted with hinges for access.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 23, 2020, 10:44:14 PM
No worries chris. Apologies it's late. Hopefully one can rectify issues . Maybe one of the experts at track planning and electrics can help solve. Agree that curves can waste space. I m hoping on my own layout to tuck wires underneath the board with those
 Chocblocks holding all together
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: ptopo on January 24, 2020, 11:35:27 PM
Hi Chris, after being away a while Iím really impressed with the scope of the new layout - a really nice vision of a plan and coming along really well. The old layout was super so this has oodles of promise.

Iíve not quite got my head around the fiddle yard issue from the pictures but my best advice (to anyone) is not to stick down track but instead hold it in place with v. small screws between sleepers, itís then dead easy to move around if thereís problems. They can stay in until ballasting and removal the screws at the end and fill the holes with ballast. Sorry if bleedin' obvious.

On track laying I took and adapted my dads most sage advice, think four times, measure three think twice more, then act. Unless youíve had a beer... :beers:. Itís why my layout is taking so ruddy long...

V best, PT
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 25, 2020, 10:46:27 AM
@ptopo (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=409) thanks for the kind comments. The track in the fiddle yard is pinned down and i have no intention of ballasting it so change will be still possible. Tonight i intend to carry on laying the track over the board join,like i said previously i might finish laying all the track on the scenic boards too. Then its the wiring that will need doing,with the boards like they are i can seperate them and turn on there sides to make the wiring easy. The plan is four seperate sections,basically the up an down lines,a short on one does not close down the whole layout.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 25, 2020, 06:25:51 PM
Thanks for all the updates, Chris. I'm looking forward to seeing some trains running, soon. You've certainly made very rapid progress.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 25, 2020, 07:54:12 PM
Thanks Chris, after reading the other post...https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=48053.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=48053.0) Ricky was having the same problem has me on my old layout. Seeing has I have a curved point in a similar place on my new layout which is a awkward place to work on ie near to a board joint, I decided to take the plunge and modify the brand new point I bought yesterday. I have done the same has the oo guys, I saw a guy doing it on his layout on youtube so thanks Charlie. Of course it is a lot more fiddly on N-Gauge the hard part is cutting the little link joining the two switch rails and of course soldering between two sleepers. I staggered the two links so has not to weaken the structure of the point, here is a pic of the modified point, there is a arrow pointing to the link that needs cutting plus of course the wire that leads to the frog which I have soldered a wire too, to attach to my Cobalt motor switch for frog control, just hope it works. Its too late now I have done it but hopefully no more problems with at least two of the loco's I remember having problems before.
By the way I left the black wire attached to one of the links in the picture so you can see how I did it, you cut that off before fitting to the layout.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-250120195254.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 25, 2020, 09:05:37 PM
Well a bit of a nightmare tonight, like I said the two lower tracks going over the board are at a slight angle because of my error. It is not a good idea crossing over a board joint at a angle, I had the problem of marking the track and soldering the rails and then the inner rail moved in the sleepers. Also trying to get the fish plates onto the point was a nightmare. The rails end of the point did not look parrarell, new point ?, and under the eaves so hard access. I wanted to have one piece of rail around the curve and then crossing the board joint ie no track joins especially on a curve that would be asking for problems. I have filled the swear box tonight I can tell you, I should have enough for a sound loco soon. The gap where the track joins the point on the inner rail is slightly large can anyone suggest something I could fill it with, the rail won't move now its soldered in place. I have packed in for tonight and turned off the soldering irons, I have the high level track to do tomorrow but I will not have the same problem with that one it is more straight, still one piece of track though with a curve.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 26, 2020, 04:53:14 PM
Well this afternoon I managed to reduce the gap on the inner rail. I put the soldering iron on the rail joint and loosened it then managed to push the rail through the sleepers and reduce the gap,I then resoldered the joint. I have now fitted the first point of the crossover along with a straight piece and fitted the droppers. The next stage i need to cut some ply for the high level where it comes through the back board,I will do that tomorrow.pics to follow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 26, 2020, 05:08:07 PM
Well this afternoon I managed to reduce the gap on the inner rail. I put the soldering iron on the rail joint and loosened it then managed to push the rail through the sleepers and reduce the gap,I then resoldered the joint. I have now fitted the first point of the crossover along with a straight piece and fitted the droppers. The next stage i need to cut some ply for the high level where it comes through the back board,I will do that tomorrow.pics to follow.

Congratulations, Chris. Well done.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 26, 2020, 10:31:21 PM
I have revised my plan for the small station, it was always going to be mainly a through station. I was thinking of a island platform on the up line but has soon has I fitted the curved point leading from the fiddle yard I realised there was not enough room. The curved point is basically a large radius point and takes up some room so it is now going to be slow line allowing small trains to stop at the platform. I will install a trailing point or possibly use a slip to allow access to a small goods yard for operational interest. Would you believe I am running out of new code 55 track and I bought nearly a full box. All the fiddle yard is new track, this part of building the layout is very enjoyable, ie sorting the track and I am taking care to lay it properly.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 27, 2020, 10:14:00 PM
More work today on the rh side boards. I cut the ply that is forming the high level section and fitted cork in position, After the nightmare with the two low level tracks with them being curved I have approached fitting the high level tracks in a different way. I sorted the screw positions out then put the pieces of track with a slight curve over the screws. I then cut the sleepers where required and soldered the sides and under the track. After tinning the screws ready I placed the track over the screws and clamped in position and then soldered the two tracks to the screws. The track needs the curves finishing on the fiddle yard side a join piece and feeds adding, but that will be a doddle after yesterdays exercise. I can also do that when I have split the boards before making a start on the electrics. When I install droppers on the high level section I have already drilled some large holes to enable the wires to go below the main board, I might make a larger access hole for incase of any future problems, trying to think ahead once scenery is in the way. I am not sure where to put the spur off the loop for the goods yard, t needs to be at the bottom somewhere because I need room for station access.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-270120215816.jpeg)
This second pic shows the fiddle yard the other side of the board join, the tracks still need joing up.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-270120215926.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: ptopo on January 28, 2020, 07:54:28 AM
Oh yes...! That’s going to make for great operation and running.

 :thankyousign:

Regarding the point modifications - I’d read about that approach and couldn’t quite get my head around the advantage vs the normal dropper from the frog (sorry, it’s been so long since I did point works). Is it to stop mis-timed switching of the frog polarity and actual movement of the switch rail causing a short? I dimly recall having this problem with some polarity switching options.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Milton Rail on January 28, 2020, 08:33:40 AM
You are making cracking progress Chris, the layout is coming along a treat  :beers:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 28, 2020, 10:11:15 AM
Thanks guys for the comments,regarding the point modification it's when you have problems with some loco's with the wheels catching the switch rails when they come round the curve and hit the point. I had this problem on the old layout with at least 3 loco's,i seem to remember one was my class 47 diesel. I checked back to backs etc at the time,even bought a gauge to do it with. I read a post the other day in the track section where somebody had the same problem so decided i would try to avoid it this time.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 28, 2020, 05:23:22 PM
More work today, to make life easier in installing the track I have assembled all four boards. The high level is now approaching the viaduct, the next job is to build the high level structure it might be a good idea to bring the low level track round first. I need a lh point to complete the station loop for the goods access. I was trying to make do with what points I have left but it's no good compromising the plan for the cost of one point, I can still complete the main line. The track on the fiddle yard high level still needs connecting yet, I will do that after splitting the boards again. Here is a pic showing progress.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-280120172245.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Shropshire Lad on January 28, 2020, 05:26:34 PM
Amazing progress Chris!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on January 28, 2020, 05:38:47 PM
That setting for the viaduct looks perfect.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on January 28, 2020, 06:06:24 PM
That setting for the viaduct looks perfect.  :thumbsup:

Seconded!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on January 28, 2020, 09:07:55 PM
That setting for the viaduct looks perfect.  :thumbsup:

Seconded!
:hellosign:
Absolutely Third that's looking superb Chris  :thumbsup:
       regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 28, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
Thanks everyone for the comments. Tonight I have sorted the approach to the viaduct on both sides. The middle of the two scenic boards is a track join so that was important to get right, I am waiting for some glue to dry now. Tomorrow night I will fix the final board join track screws in place and maybe solder some track over the join. The screws for the low level track leading over the monkey bridge are already in place waiting for the track. I went to the model shop today and bought another three lengths of code 55 unfortunately he had no medium radius points in stock but he has placed some on order, they will be uni frogs, but thats ok with me. I have plenty to do so I can leave the station loop and goods spur for now and concentrate on other things.  One thing I have done is modify the second curved point at the other end of the station loop, I have now fitted that in place so that I can complete the main line which after s bend curves leads over the monkey bridge. One thing I have changed is the position of the second curved point, I have moved it to the right slightly away from the crossover bridge, so the loop will be a touch shorter but I think it will look better. With moving the point the curves have moved slightly to the left and will be a bit more curvy, still nothing tighter than 2nd radius, it should look good though. I will post some more pics when I make more progress.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on January 29, 2020, 06:38:31 AM
That all sounds like good progress, Chris.  Let us have some more picutures whe you get the next bit finished.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 29, 2020, 09:18:56 PM
Thanks Laurence for the comments here is the latest track update. I am concentrating on the finishing the low level before finishing the high level. It is just has well because like I said I had to recaculate some of the curves. I have managed to lay the outer track over the board join towards the monkey bridge. While I was waiting for the copydex to dry on the track, I started on fitting some of the feeds I had missed  on the awkward curves, I managed it without damaging the sleepers and burning myself. I have run out of feed wires so I need to make some more, its remembering that on the front boards the wires are the other way round. I am using brown and blue, brown is the inside of the track and blue the outer rail. I do not think I have made any mistakes yet, that's tempting fate of course. Here is  the latest pic of my progress.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-290120211816.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 30, 2020, 09:54:33 PM
 I went to the model shop today and bought 4x more lengths of code 55 and some more cork, even though I bought 3 pieces on Tuesday. I also wanted a left hand med point unfortunately Peco only sent him rh points even though he ordered them at the same time has a box of code 55. I will wait while he gets them because I know he will be getting unifrogs and that suits me fine. I have gone over the track I have laid and made a few tweaks here and there, I have also checked each piece of track has feed wires, I found a couple I had missed. The bigest problem today was finding where I could put the track feeds after the track join's between the two scenic boards. There is a small over ( low) road bridge then  hill where the signal box will be then the monkey bridge. I decided to put the feeds just after the board join, the wires will be hidden behind the bridge suport wall, at least thats the idea, I drilled bigish holes in the board beneath the bridge position for the wires to pass through. The track board joins are soldered down to the screws, just before the join the track curves round has it is dropping some height but I noticed a slight dip. I first noticed the dip when the board was on it's side, so what I have done is pack the track there with two layers of cork to level the track out. The next job now is to finish the high level track over the viaduct, so I will have to fix the viaduct in it's final position ready for the track. Some of you may notice on the picture that I have been generous with the track spacing round the sweeping curves, this to avoid problems with running, I think it will look better once the scenery starts to appear. Most of the curves on the left scenic side will be hidden anyway, I have yet to decide where the tunnel mouths will go.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-300120213554.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 30, 2020, 10:15:20 PM
I have just glued the viaduct section in position ready for the next phase of building. Just thought I would post a pic showing the layout.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-300120221339.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on January 31, 2020, 10:18:55 AM
Something I have noticed since placing the viaduct in position is the little stacker truck on the factory scene has gone walkabouts. I did have a vacuum session yesterday so I need to check inside that, or I might find it with my knees which would be painful.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrism on January 31, 2020, 10:20:44 AM
or I might find it with my knees which would be painful.

I've got that t-shirt too  :o
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on January 31, 2020, 10:58:24 AM
or I might find it with my knees which would be painful.

I've got that t-shirt too  :o

Yes, been there and done that.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 01, 2020, 10:00:07 PM
More progress tonight, I have finished the rail over bridge structure ready for laying the track over on the rh high level. I have also laid the track round the curves from the fiddle yard and part way over the viaduct, that was a tight squeeze but I have managed to keep within a minimum of second radius. In the scenic sections the track is glued with copydex, the advantage is if you make a error when its dry just slide a thin blade under the track and your ready to make any corrections. The only problem I find is if you drill through where there is some copydex it gets wraped round the drill so I miss sections for the feed wires. The curved section I have laid tonight needs the feed wires sorting out yet. I still need some more track, I was trying to avoid having a track join on the viaduct because that would cause a problem with feed wires to that piece of track. I was also trying to avoid using old pieces of track so I might have to go to the model shop again and buy another couple of pieces of track to or use some old track after all.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 02, 2020, 06:03:50 PM
Well this afternoon I completed the up track over the viaduct including feeds. I have finished the up line apart from the fiddle yard at the back which needs connecting with a short piece.
I was using a old Burgess soldering iron I have had for years but unfortunately it has packed in. It was good for soldering to the side of the track adding the feed wires, with having a small tip. I am not complaining I have had my moneyís worth out of it,40 years approx. I have ordered a new small tip Antex iron from Rapid online. My main soldering iron work station has a very short lead and a very short mains lead too, so using a small iron was a lot easier. I have run out of code 55 new track now so I will wait till Tuesday when my model shop opens and hopefully my new iron will arrive by then. I had a crawl under the layout this afternoon, I try to avoid that nowadays. I did not find the missing stacker truck, but I did notice a point on the fiddle yard with no feed wires. So I am nearly there, I have done a bit of track tweaking in places, there are one or two places I need to keep a eye on when I finally do a test run.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on February 02, 2020, 06:19:23 PM
You are progressing well Chris - your model shop must love you!  ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 02, 2020, 06:55:38 PM
Thanks @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) yes they do at the moment spent a fortune recently. Here is my latest track update pic. I must admit I was nearly tempted to use some of the old track but the soldering iron packing in sealed it, it can wait a couple of days I want it right. I did have a slight problem this afternoon with one of the new board joints, I was trying to fix it when the soldering iron packed in so that will be the next job.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-020220185511.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 03, 2020, 05:35:08 PM
Well today I could not wait till tomorrow to get the track so I went to the second model shop in the area I know of, bit of a trip but I bought two more pieces of code 55 so I could finish the main line.I have laid the track now across the high level section. Tonight I will make a start on the track feeds, it means moving my soldering workstation, like I said its good but the leads are a bit short. I might have a change and make a start on eother side of the viaduct. You need a good reason to have a vidauct so really I need hills on each side to justify the viaduct.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on February 03, 2020, 06:56:16 PM
You are certainly rattling along with this project Chris.
Looking really good.

Martin
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 03, 2020, 09:21:55 PM
Well tonight after laying the track I have decided to leave solderingthe feeds to the track till I get the new soldering Iron I have ordered from Rapid. It should be a lot more nimble than the workstation I have has good as it is. I have also made a change to my plan for the station loop, the initial plan was for a trailing point off the end of the loop but I have changed that to a facing point instead. This will lead to the sidings with a head shunt and another point allowing goods trains to reverse and shunt into the sidings, I think that will work quite well. I have a couple of old points I could use but I intend to use a new unifrog point leading into the sidings for reliability. I have just put some cork down in the station area for the station loop and platforms etc. The station is only going to be a small suburban station with a loop on the upline and the goods spur. Building the scenery is going to be fun on this layout there is plenty of open spaces, there will be a few hills ( for the tunnels ) and of course justification for the viaduct over the river.
Just thought I would add a pic showing track so far.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-030220220818.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on February 04, 2020, 06:26:59 AM
It's all starting to come together nicely now, Chris.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 04, 2020, 10:37:30 PM
The new soldering iron has come today, the tip is a bit bigger than I would have liked. Not sure if I could cut it down a touch without damaging it, so I better leave well be. I managed to wire a few feeds in with it and tonight I have finished the station loop along with a rh unifrog point bought today. I have been putting labels on tag strips ready for the wiring, I have also made some feed wires ready to use. I have also painted the track with sleeper grime over the viaduct.
 A bit of frustration tonight, I can not find my box of shrink wrap anywhere, it has dissapeared into the void. Luckyly I found a piece that I could use, I needed it to wire the frog on the new point, I am also running out of metal joiners so another trip to the model shop. Today I bought a couple of Metcalfe kits, the warehouse kit pn182 which looks has near to a old mill I has I can get. I will probably modify it to make it more mill like. The other kit is a pn147 the Railway bridge in stone, I am hoping I can use this on the road from the viaduct factory, that will also need some modifications making to fit in place. I have seen lots of you guys on the site scratch building but I know my limitations, the monkey bridge is about my limit.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 05, 2020, 11:15:05 PM
Tonight was soldering night preparing the tag strips ready for installing my dcc bus. I then checked them all with my multimeter for continuity. I need to plan where all the equipment is going, I will be using 4 x Psx circuit breakers. Two for the fiddle yard up and down tracks and two on the scenic boards up and down tracks. On the fiddle yard boards where most of the point motors are they will have a seperate bus wired from the  Alpha control box. I am not sure what I am doing with the points and motors on the rh scenic board yet, there is not enough inputs left on the Alpha for the scenic board, all being used on the Fiddle yard boards. I might make a simple panel for the station loop and the small goods yard and use some of the old switches from the old control panel or save up and buy another Alpha unit but then I will also need more digital motors so a bit expensive.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 06, 2020, 09:06:53 PM
This afternoon I took advantage of the sun and went walking, only 3.6 mile but its a start.
Last night I bit the bullet and ordered a Weller soldering iron kit which comes with different sizes of tip, that should be more up to the job of soldering track feeds to the track. I am having problems with my main soldering station, the end keeps falling out which could be dangerous if it landed on my leg. It is a press fit, most have a screw holding the end in and tip in position. This has a sleeve which presses into the end of the iron with a screw on cap to old the tip in position, turning the screw cap and the whole thing turns in the end of the iron. Over the last few weeks it has become progressavely looser, like I said now a bit dangerous. I have tried some thread lock but that only last a couple of days, obviously the heat is too much for it. I might try drilling a hole and tapping it and putting a small screw in it to hold it in position. I bought it from Conrad a few years ago, it was not expensive and it has been very good with varible heat control and a sponge. I suppose you only get what you pay for, I will see what the Weller iron is like tomorrow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on February 06, 2020, 09:43:02 PM
the end keeps falling out which could be dangerous if it landed on my leg.

Could be even more dangerous if it landed somewhere else!  :goggleeyes: . Good luck with the new iron.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 07, 2020, 11:08:45 PM
Well my new Weller soldering iron arrived late this afternoon, better late than never. Tomorrow night I can proceed with finishing the track feeds, this iron has two more tips, a pointed tip and a small spade one. Once the track feeds are complete it will then be time to start wiring up the layout. I will have a main bus which will be fed from the SB5 booster, which will then supply two Psx circuit breakers on the scenic boards and two on the fiddle yard boards. Most of the feeds if there is a few together will be connected to tag strips, via wago connectors, this will enable some sections to be disconnected for fault finding. The Cobalt point motors on the fiddle yard boards will have another bus of two wires from the Alpha unit, I have yet to decide about the point motors on the rh scenic board. I will post some more pics after I have made some progress.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 08, 2020, 07:19:27 PM
Well tonight I am going to finish the tracklaying and feeds now I have my new soldering ron with a more suitable tip. I have retired the Basetech for now, I might try to repair it sometime.
This morning I made a trip over to Heywood mrc on one of there open days, very enjoyable. Thanks to the two guys on the N- Gauge dept, sorry I am terible remembering names, you know who you are, thanks for making me welcome. Back to work now I need to get some trains running and do some testing on this layout. It is nice to know I can go over to Heywood and run some loco's there If I do not manage it before next month's open day.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 08, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
Tonight I have fitted some of the last track ie the head shunt for the goods yard, I have not laid the sidings yet has I have not decided exactly how many etc. I still have the threeway point from the old layout, unfortunately all the wires fell off it when I pulled it up, it was well stuck down. So that point will need a repairs to the wiring if I decide to use it. I have now added feeds to all the track on the scenic board using the new soldering iron, I think I managed to damge at least one sleeper in the process, but that is the way it is. I have been looking through the old bus wires for the old layout to see what I can use and I have decided where the controller and a board with two PSx's will go on the rh front scenic board, so that is the next stage.
I forgot I had to repair one of the track joins over the board joint it had come loose, it was so easy using the Antex 100w iron, that is now fixed. So buying that iron was not completely wasted it will be a good asset for doing any soldering on the heavy bus wires, I used twin and earth cable, you need heat for that stuff.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 09, 2020, 05:45:39 PM
Well I have finally got to starting on the wiring. This afternoon i have fitted the first part of the main bus this involved drill holes in the leg supports to allow it to pass through. This also gave support to it has a bonus, it needs to continue onto the fiddle yard. I have made a board to fix the psx circuit breakers to, I am in the process of painting that. I intend to make a box for the SB5 which will be mounted under the board at the front. The cable from this then plugs into the end of the main bus. I have already fitted supports under the board to support the box. Next to it will be the board with the circuit breakers which will be hinged for easy access. The sub buses from the circuit breakers will then supply the feeds to the track via tag strips,I will post some pics when more things are in place.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 09, 2020, 09:55:05 PM
Well more work on the railway, I have given the electronics board a coat of primer on the other side so that can be drying. Then back to working on the feed wires, First I have numbered them all and matched them to a plan of the wiring. Then I fitted two tag strips, I am trying to think ahead and not place them where other things will need to be like signals etc, so some of the feed wires will need extending. In which case I will extend with larger wire, some I have extended using wago connectors, I have found they do not work very well with the thinner wire I am using for the droppers so I have soldered some together. I am using seperate tag strips  for the up line and for the down line, they will be supplied with power from two buses and from two circuit breakers . Done enough for tonight my knees are hurting now so time to pack in but I am getting there. here are two pics, the first shows the start of the main bus the second the tag strips note the feeds wires which are now numbered.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-090220214251.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-090220214421.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on February 10, 2020, 07:44:47 AM
That's coming on nicely, Chris.  For thin wires (in fact for all wires) I tend to use 'chocolate  block' barrier strip for connectors.  It looks like you have one down near the bottom left of the pictures.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 10, 2020, 04:55:46 PM
Thanks Laurence, yes I used chock block connectors all over the layout on the old layout. That was the trouble they were all over the place with multiple bus wires going to them. It is suprprising how much room they take up under the boards, I was struggling when I decided to fit signals and lights etc, they were fitted to the baseboard the side supports in fact everywhere. I was going to use some of the old bus wires but today I went to B&Q and bought some more twin and earth cable. The old bus wires had cables coming off all over the place, so if I cut some of them off there would be open cable with no insulation, I found a good piece for the main bus and another to extend it for the fiddle yard board. I have just finished painting the electronics board with a coat of gloss, when dry I will fit hinges to it and then mount the components, then I can begin wiring the sub bus's with the new cable. I am not sure if I am going to solder the connections onto it yet, I might use chock blocks it will look neater.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 10, 2020, 08:59:23 PM
More work tonight, I have fitted 2 of the circuit breakers to a new board which will be fitted under the rh scenic board next to the command centre (SB5). It is hinged and will fold up and held with a catch, thus protecting the circuit boards. At the moment these two boards are wired with reset switches but no warning led's. I have drilled two holes ready fo incase I decide to upgrade them, I will probably run the layout with them hinged down so you can see the short warning lights on the boards. The other two PSX's I have are wired with led's, I intend to use those on the fiddle yard and extend the led wires and reset switches to some where I can get to them easy. I am now in the process of making the box for the SB5, that will be fitted just under the board also for easy access.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-100220205108.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 11, 2020, 02:48:36 PM
Well  today I went to the model shop hoping to get some more tag strips, unfortunately he did not have anymore. Then I remembered a radio shop that used to be in Bolton, I thought it had closed a few years ago but luckily I found out it had relocated to Farnworth. I mangaed to buy some more tag strips from there so I now should have enough to do the fiddle yard. I was trying to figure out how to make the few I had last out, I can now fit the extra ones where needed on the boards and avoid long wires. Just finishing the box for the command centre at the moment, back to more soldering tonight.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: tc4332 on February 11, 2020, 04:55:15 PM
Wow Chris, I am enjoying following your progress and today you have taken me down a path that I thought had died. Modern Radio still lives!!!!!
I will be paying them a visit when I return home. I really thought that the business had vanished.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 11, 2020, 06:52:59 PM
Hi there @tc4332 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7940) you must be local to me then. Yes Modern Radio lives its on Gladstone rd Farnworth now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: tc4332 on February 11, 2020, 08:33:07 PM
Hi Chris,
Just another 80 year old living in Wigan. Drove down to Chepstow today for a meeting tomorrow. Then Thursday return via Bridgewater.
Retired electronics engineer.
No actual layout yet, waiting for son and his family to move out then I can use their bedroom. Lots of plans but hoping that they wont be pipe dreams for much longer. Apart from the kids I am on my own now, lost my wife 18 months ago.
I am really admiring your skill levels.
I'll keep in touch if you are willing.
Ray.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 11, 2020, 10:09:26 PM
Thanks Ray @tc4332 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7940) for your post by all means keep in touch, I have sent you a pm.
Tonight I have done some more work with the tag strips, I have re wired the first two using smaller tag strips and labeled them up better. You have to way things up, for some reason in my brain I had used tag strips that had too many connections so I was wasting some. You tend to forget you need to seperate the up and the down lines and count the connections needed. I do not want long dropper wires, they need to be has short has possible and connect direct to the tag strips.I have also fitted the electronics board to the bottom of the baseboard, I will fit the box for the command centre when the paint is dry probably tomorrow night. One of the droppers came off a piece of track, luckily it was in a accessable place and I managed to solder it back in place without doing any damage. One of the next jobs is to fit the two pairs of bus wires in position and then run cables from the bus to each tag strip. I am thinking of using the wago connectors on the wires from the bus to the tag strips, this will enable me to dissconnect parts of the track which should help in fault finding If I need too.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-110220220754.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on February 12, 2020, 06:34:49 AM
It's all coming together.  I assume that the little boxes with holes in at the edges/corners of the baseboards are to locate the legs.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 12, 2020, 09:52:08 AM
Yes thanks Laurence, you are spot on they are the leg supports.I am looking forward to the next bit ie fitting the sub bus wires, i might be able to run something.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 12, 2020, 10:27:08 PM
Well more progress today, I have made a start on fitting the sub bus for the up lines. I have now run out of large Choc block connectors, I have loads of small connectors but they are not much use for the way I am wiring this bus. I saw the idea on Youtube, its a good idea but heavy on the choc blocks. On the left side of the board all the droppers are connected to the respective tag strips, next job, the tag strips will be connected to the sub up bus. On the rh side on the pic you can see the box for the command centre fitted below the board and too the left is the board with the circuit breakers in the folded up position. A trip to B&Q tomorrow and probably the model shop. By the way I have fixed my soldering work station, I managed to drill and tap the end and fit a screw. Has I was tightening the screw the head snapped off the screw but thats ok I have have filed it flush now, has long as it holds the end in.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-120220221754.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 13, 2020, 04:23:16 PM
I have been to the model shop today and B&Q. I spent some serious money today 10x Cobalt IP motors, this will leave me two spare after fitting the motors to the fiddle yard. The plan is to use all digital on the fiddle yard, I was going to use a few anolouge motors along with a AD-2fx but having all digital motors simplifies the wiring. The two spare digital motors I will use for the station loop and I can then use anolouge motors for the goods sidings and the station crossover. I was a bit lucky with the motors,a box of 6, my local model shop was going to return them has not required, he had only ordered single motors.
I have also got the 30a connectors strips ( choc blocks) plus a few more cable tie wraps which will come in handy for keeping the wiring tidy. In the picture you can also see the new tag strips I bought.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-130220162154.jpeg)

I should add on here please do not tell my wife it's not my birthday till August.........
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on February 13, 2020, 04:42:58 PM
Your secret is safe Chris.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on February 13, 2020, 06:21:21 PM
Your secret is safe Chris.

'Course it is ......... how much is it worth?  ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 13, 2020, 10:34:12 PM
Tonight I have fitted the down sub bus using the new cable. This time I bought 1.5mm mains cable which is lighter than the previous cable I have been using. I might have got away with using the smaller choc blocks if I had realised. They only cost £3 so its no big deal, just need to connect the tag strips on the left side, I have prepared some small tag strips for the right side where there are not has many feeds. I do not want to waste the larger tag strips, the fiddle yard will be the challenge, 10 tracks including the high level gradient and 19 points. The left scenic board should be a doddle by comparison, just a few feed wires. By the way the old soldering iron after the repair now works a treat and is now a lot safer to use.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-130220223338.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 14, 2020, 10:01:18 PM
Well tonight a bit of frustration, I usually go playing snooker with my two sons but being Valentines day they have give it a miss. I began doing more wiring on the bus connections checking with my meter has I go along. Has soon as I connected the down bus thats when trouble started, I started by back tracking trying to find the cause of the fault then it dawned on me. I tried the meter on the track itself and the down line and the upline where connected. I then realised the cause, I have used two uni frog points has a station crossover. You do not need insulated joiners, but of course on my layout they are two different district's so I need the insulated joiners between the two points. So I need to turn the board back over and pull up a bit of track and fit the joiners, it is glued down with copydex so easy enough to get too. Simple mistake to make but very annoying I made it, I seem to have wired all the droppers the correct way round.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on February 15, 2020, 06:42:59 AM
An easy mistake to make, Chris.  Also, you may have trouble when a loco uses the crossover, because it will bridge the insulated gaps, so a couple of frog juicers may be called for on one of the tracks, with IRJs on either side of one of the point. 
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 15, 2020, 07:23:05 PM
Well that was easy,I have fitted the unsul joiners already, two tins weighting the track while the glue drys and then back to working on the connections.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 15, 2020, 10:50:53 PM
A bit more frustration tonight, I solved the up and down line contamination, easy as described in my last post. But tonight I was still showing a problem on my meter with the left and right rails showing a fault. The obvious cause would be droppers wired the wrong way round but I have double checked them. The cause is the Circuit breaker, I disconnected that and no fault, unless I also connect one of the two digital ip point motors. The cause with the motor is simple, they are still in the centre position ready for fitting, once activated they will be easy to sort, if its still the wrong, just swap the feeds over. So it might be something similar in the circuit breakers, I will just leave them dissconnected for now while I finish the wiring. Tonight I have been trimming the cork to give a nice shoulder for the track and one of the tracks had come loose on the board join just near the monkey bridge so I have re soldered that. Back to finishing the feeds on this board on the right hand side tomorrow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 16, 2020, 08:54:26 PM
Well tonight I decided to finish the high level track on the fiddle yard board,there was a gap of about 10", I also fitted the droppers. I would have done a lot more tonight but I have not been well for the last 24 hours so I am pleased I managed to do that.  I also fitted some buffer stops at the end of the 3 fiddle yard end sidings, just blocks of ply but thats all I need to stop a train running off the end. Hopefully I will crash on with the rest of the wiring tomorrow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on February 16, 2020, 09:20:57 PM
You take care Chris, health is more important than layouts. I do think you could have chosen better words for your last sentence though.  ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 16, 2020, 09:58:05 PM
Just thought I would post this short video of my new layout. I made a few mistakes like not mentioning the name, not mentioning the left fiddle yard board and calling the left scenic board the right but you get the idea.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on February 16, 2020, 10:41:17 PM
A good explanatory video Chris.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on February 17, 2020, 05:28:56 PM
A good explanatory video Chris.  :thumbsup:
:hellosign:.
 Totally agree, nice work Chris
        regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 17, 2020, 10:45:38 PM
Thanks guys for the comments. Tonight I have done more work on the first scenic board .I have added 3 more tag strips, all dropper wires are now connected to a tag strip. I have also wired the end of the bus cables to jumper sockets ready for joining the lh scenic board. I will use jumper wires to join the two scenic boards, they worked well on the old layout with no problems. To complete the bus wiring  on this board I just need to add feed wires from the bus to the tag strips. I have thought about connecting one of the bus to the SB5 direct and having a test run, I will let you know the result if I do.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Ricky B on February 17, 2020, 11:24:39 PM
I'm enjoying following your progress lil chris. Lots of wiring and gizmos- way above me most of that! Very impressive.👍
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 18, 2020, 10:36:06 AM
Thanks @Ricky B (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6994) pleased you have sorted your point problem. Hoping that i do not have that issue with this layout, i should not has i have modified the two curved points for my station loop. Just having a few problems with the wiring i do not understand at the moment. I wired my old layout the same way which worked so it should be ok.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 18, 2020, 10:31:14 PM
Tonight I have finished the wiring on the right scenic board, all tag strips are connected correctly. My meter is showing a problem of a short if I connect a Cobalt motor or connect the bus's to the circuit breakers, maybe they need power to them so they can configure themselves. So tonight I tried connecting the up bus direct to the main bus from the SB5. I plugged it all in no problems except trying to run a loc through the points was fraught with problems. The springs have been removed ready for using the Cobalt motors and the frog wires are not connected yet. So I gave up on that and tried to run the loco on the high level up track( no points ), that was better after a track clean. I would show a video but I have no software for editing movies at the moment since I upgraded the pc to W10. At least I now know my wiring is correct and working.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on February 18, 2020, 11:30:18 PM
 :hellosign:
   Running trains is always excellent progress Chris   :thumbsup:
      regards Derek.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 19, 2020, 10:38:09 AM
Thanks Derek, I have more testing to do yet. I noticed last night after running the loco although it could not go over the board join, no power on the next board,  I tried a coach which was not good. At least one of the board joins needs some tweaking, one of the rails on one join looks lower which caused the coach to de-rail. I will continue doing the wiring then I can do proper testing and tweaking before ballasting, I want good running on this layout.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on February 19, 2020, 11:56:05 AM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-030220220818.jpeg)

Great photo and progress Chris - looking good!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 19, 2020, 08:57:04 PM
Tonight I have fixed the board join near the monkey bridge, It was a case of heating the solder and re aligning the rail. I have also found out a point on the goods yard was too near a crossbeam so I have swapped the point for a new large radius point which moved the motor a little leaving room for the motor. I am now just re soldering the feed wires which have all moved to the left. I am then going to fit the Cobalt anolouge point motors to every remaining point, only the two curved points are digital on the scenic board. The next job will be to make a start on the feeds on the left scenic board, there are not many bit they are a bit spaced out, no points to worry about though. Another job that will need my attention soon is one of the board joints from the left scenic board to the fiddle yard board. That will be difficult because it is on a gradient with curves, I was not happy with it when I looked last night. At the end of the day if I can not tweak it I will just relay it with new track over the join.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 19, 2020, 11:07:51 PM
I have finished re laying the goods siding point and headshunt and re attached the feeds. I have found another mistake I have made I have put one of the jumper sockets for the bus where there is the central board support, so that needs moving a easy enough job. I have just been checking my anolouge Cobalt motors, I have plenty spares motors but not sure if the bar is long enough to reach through the point, I must have something ie wire I could use to replace them if needed. I have also figured out which way the switches work to wire the frogs and wrote it down so I do not forget. I will start fitting the anolouge motors tomorrow now I have sorted the best ones. Out of 12 used Cobalt motors I only found one that did not seem to work off a 9v battery but some are slow some are noisier. I remember having one that seemed to take ages to work so that is probably the one.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 20, 2020, 07:34:49 PM
Well today I had a trip up to Settle with the good lady wife so of course I called in at Dcc Concepts shop.The weather was not too kind but she demanded we went up to Ribblehead so I duly obliged.
I have ordered some more bits today including a Cobalt value pack which includes some motor operating rods stickers etc. So I will wait for them to arrive before fitting the old motors,I must have used slightly thinner ply on the old layout, it will make fitting them a doddle. I have also decided to use Alpha aeu unit on the front scenic board with a small mimic panel for the station and goods yard. When I have been looking through the old wiring for my control panel I noticed some of the soldered connections on the 25way connector where loose. With my present eye sight it will save trying to solder those back. So tonight I will move the jumper panel that needs moving and then possibly make a start on the left scenic board wiring.
Forgot to add a couple of pics......
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-200220201841.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-200220201931.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on February 20, 2020, 09:19:58 PM
I note you have expanded your viaduct, Chris ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on February 20, 2020, 09:44:10 PM
Brings back many a happy memory. Chris
 A picturesque shot or two
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 20, 2020, 09:46:36 PM
Thanks Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) I wish....Mine is staying at six arches happy with that..... I could have bought a couple things while at Settle but I forgot. Apart from the weather it was a very enjoyable day we had a nice ride out.
Re the layout I have foxed the jumper sockets and taken another look at the bad board join I have left. I think I have found a solution that will not involve removing any track so once I have seperated the left scenic board I will take a good look I will have easier access. I have drilled a few holes for some bus wires from the high level, the second board will be a doddle to wire up. I will leave it till weekend now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on February 21, 2020, 07:44:34 AM
Are you going to paint of those bits of plaster 'snow' in the bgackground?  :D
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: ptopo on February 22, 2020, 09:12:21 AM
Great stuff Chris with problem solving. As my mum says - these things are sent to test us.

Super video too.

Cheers, PT.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 23, 2020, 08:53:10 PM
Hello everyone, I have not managed to do much over the last few days, the wife had a big birthday and that took president. I have bought some more equipment for the railway, the Cobalt extra pack arrived along with a Cobalt Alpha AEU which I have bought from Costal DCC, ordered thursday night and received on Saturday morning so good service from Coastal and the Royal Mail. The Alpha AEU unit will take any switch and convert it to digital signal, I intend eventually to make a new control panel using one of the Alpha Switch D packs but they are on short supply. But I can run wires into the AEU from switches from my old panel with a tempory control panel for now. The only thing is there are only three of the operating bars for the points in the Cobalt switch pack, so I will have to find some wire somewhere to make some.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-230220205017.jpeg)
Tonight I have made a start on wiring the left scenic board, like I have said previously it is pretty simple. I have just used simple single tag strips and I used a old bus wire for one of the up bus on this board. The bus wire had soldered wires off it so I just soldered them direct on the tag strips, no need to over complicate things. I seem to have run out of letters for labeling, the ones I have been using were from Staples Office outlet now gone. The up bus needs extending to the left edge of the board and I of course need to make a Down bus yet but I am well on the way.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-230220204806.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/1784-230220204926.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 24, 2020, 05:13:07 PM
I have managed to finish the two bus wires using old wires to finish the bus. A few droppers need soldering and another tag strip is needed. Another job was fixing the rising track on the fiddle yard left board. With the scenic board removed that was easy to fix without having to remove any track. I have glued it in position hopefully correct this time, there was a slight dip which would have caused some problems. Removing two corner wedge supports and then correcting the board and re fixing the supports in position. I am too busy to work on the layout tonight so hopefully I can complete this board tomorrow. I should then be able to start on the fiddle yard boards, that will be fun, lots of droppers and point motors.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 25, 2020, 09:05:45 PM
Tonight I have finished the wiring for the left scenic board all tag strips fitted and all feeds soldered in position and connected to the bus wires. I have numbered all the feeds and tag strips, I have also checked with my meter all wiring is showing no shorts. Of course the next job is just a bit big, sorting the fiddle yard boards. I have not made my mind up which way to go about it, not sure if I will fit the point motors first. By fitting the point motors first it will make sure they do not get in the way of the wiring. I need to fit a 2 wire bus for the motors, I am am not sure how I am going to wire them yet possibly with small choc block connectors. Then I need to wire the two lots of bus wires up and down again fed from two PSX circuit boards. The two circuit boards are fed from a large plug in choc block connector from the right scenic board Main Bus.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 27, 2020, 09:07:55 PM
Tonight I have began preparing the Cobalt motors ready for fitment. Has anybody any advice on the best way to number the point motors on the fiddle yard. On my last layout It was difficult to remember what to press which switch for any of the tracks. This time my idea is to have the two centre tracks has straight through lines, bit of a pity really has they are the longest tracks. I will have twelve switches on my control panel and I can not make my mind up. 1/ number the points in sequence for the up line first so the first 6 swithes will all be the up line and the reamining switches for the down line. Or 2/ have the first 6 switches on the left for the left side of the fiddle yard and the right switches for the right side. You can have one switch control more than one motor which is just has well because there are 17 motors. Two form a crossover so that one is easy. My tracks are in a ladder formation, here is a pic before it was finished, the front siding has a extra two points with two headshunts to allow longer trains or two trains. Any idea's will be appreciated........
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/1784-120120163849.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on February 27, 2020, 09:34:23 PM
Personally Chris, I would go for the switches on the left controlling the points on the left hand side and the switches on the right controlling the right hand side.  But, before long, you will have some one advocating your other option!  ;) . Have a think about it for as long as you can and then decide.  :beers:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 27, 2020, 10:14:10 PM
Thanks David @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) You made me think, I found the old panel. Looking at it it was numbered1-7 for the left, 8-14 for the right.I had to keep looking at the panel to see which switch to press and I even tried to colour code them. I want a system that is more intuitive, I am even thinking of a switch for a track has opposed to for a specific point. I might though give the four main points their own switch, anyway it's pickeling my brain at the moment. I will work something out I need to do a drawing of the tracks.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on February 28, 2020, 06:49:17 AM
Hi Chris

I have a chart showing which points control which loops.  '1' means the point are set to turnout and '2' means they are set to straight on.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/3091-280220064553-88017514.jpeg)

It means that I know exactly what to set up for the routes, but I can also use it for direct access to the loops.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 28, 2020, 10:02:06 AM
Thanks @Innovationgame (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3091)     Laurence thats a good idea, although i will name mine up and down lines. I have that in my head already, ie the outer track is up and inner is down. Having a think overnight i am thinking of numbering the points 1_6 for the up lines, i think it will be easier to remember.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on February 28, 2020, 10:03:56 AM
See you tomorrow pm, Chris?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 28, 2020, 10:38:33 AM
Yes see you tomorrow Mick,watch out for that speed van if its there this year. I will be coming from the motorway again so i should miss it.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on February 29, 2020, 09:01:36 PM
A nice trip to Preston model railway show this afternoon, met Mick (Newport Nobby) and Ron (Lankyman), nice to see you today.
Tonight I have made a start on preparing to fit some Cobalt motors to my fiddle yard. I really should have done this has I was laying the track it would have been easier. Of the 17 motors I had drilled the hole for the operating rod in the correct position apart from one which I carefully expanded the hole without damaging the point. I was fortunate to have two templates for the motors,you used to get them in a pack of six motors, not any more. Fortunately the IP Cobalt motors are the same dimensions has the old anolog motors. One of my templates was modified I soon remembered why, so when you place it over the point on N-Gauge the hole is offset not in the centre like on our 00 Gauge cousins. Having the templet  offset, with it cutaway so you can see that the blades are central, then drill the four holes for the motor mounting through the baseboard.. I will split the fiddle yard boards tomorrow and make a start on fitting the motors with the boards on their sides, easier than crawling underneath.I can also make a start on the bus wiring etc.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 01, 2020, 07:44:21 PM
Well this afternoon I did some drawings so I can make note of the wiring on the fiddle boards, I have started numbering the drop wires. I have found a bad error, I have forgot to attatch two dropper wires after the point, the trouble is it is where the overpass is for the highlevel so I now need to remidy the situation. If that is the only mistake I have made I will be happy, watch this space.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 01, 2020, 10:06:55 PM
Well I sorted out my error, wellI think I did, it was a awkward place to solder wires. If the feeds are no good I will just add some on the bend after the overpass. I found another point with no feeds but that was easy to fix. The crossover points could have been fitted a bit straighter but has long has they work and I have no problems I will leave them for now. I have now fitted two Cobalt motors, I had put the screw holes on the wrong side of one of them, but they were still easy to fit. I have done one tag strip for the down lines and soldered the feeds, my back is aching now so time to stop for tonight.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/1784-010320220218.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 02, 2020, 08:35:19 PM
Well I finished the left side (easy side) of the fiddle board I am working on. I started to fit some point motors on the rh side, I found one where the operating hole was not quite correct, I tried to modify it from below and I have damaged the point, the switch rail has come adrift.So correction here... It is a new  points, but not a unifrog, and I have a spare point, so I can try to repair that point later on the workbench, I could then use it in the goods yard sidings. Knees are hurting again now so that is enough for tonight.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 03, 2020, 09:08:46 PM
Tonight I have fitted a new point, well yes I decided to buy a new one to replace the new one I damaged, ie like for like. I have now fitted all the Cobalt motors on the rh Fiddleyard board. I had to rework a couple of the holes that did not line up correctly without damaging another point. The next job is finishing wiring the droppers to tag strips, there are a lot of droppers on the right side of the board. The good news is they are all very much grouped together, I then need to sort the two wire motor bus. I have not made my mind up, do I use choc blocks or solder them to the bus. There will be the split type choc blocks at the end of the board anyway to extend the bus to board two..
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 04, 2020, 09:35:32 PM
More progress tonight, I have made up tag strips for the right side of the board including some for the motor bus and fitted them onto the baseboard. The next job is to finish wiring the droppers to the tag strips. Something I have forgot  when setting up the tag strips for the droppers is wires from the bus too the motors. Because I am using a seperate bus for motor control I need to use one of the accessory switches on the Cobalt IP Motor for frog control. So I need wires from the tag strips to the motor's, I have decided to solder the motor wires to the same tag as the feed to the same point. All the points on the fiddle yard have a feed at the toe end which also means using the Cobalt motor the otherway round, I have printed a diagram with the motor wiring to avoid confusion.
a pic showing progress
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/1784-040320214012.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 05, 2020, 06:36:59 AM
That's starting to look very tidy, Chris.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 05, 2020, 07:03:33 PM
Thanks @Innovationgame (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3091)  Laurence, that is the way I like it, it will get a bit more complicated yet though.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 05, 2020, 10:20:29 PM
Tonight I have managed to finish soldering the droppers on the right board, I managed to finish it before my left knee packed in with cramp. I also wired a feed to the motor switches at the same time, there are 3 motors on the left side I need to add the feeds to those too. Then I can start wiring the bus's themselves, a up bus, a down bus and a motor control bus from the sniffer unit. I still yet to decide where I am going to fit the two circuit breakers and the sniffer unit. I might make a hinged board similar to the front and fit them to that. I will also need to extend the reset wires for the circuit boards, I intend to mount them at the front on the front valance.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 05, 2020, 11:41:57 PM
Just thought i would post the latest pic of my fiddle yard wiring.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/1784-050320234046.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 07, 2020, 09:13:57 PM
Well tonight I have wired in the down bus, soldering to the tag strips. I have done half of the up bus before my old knees packed in. I think when I make a start on the left board I will prop it up a bit higher to make life easier. Two of the Cobalt IP motors have been used before, I have bought a couple of the value packs which include new operating rods and sticky pads, it is a pity you only get three operating rods in the kit, hence why I bought the second one. Having the longer rods makes it easy to fit the motors, you can poke the rod through the tie bar hole before the sticky pad takes a hold on the baseboard and then line it up with the pre drilled holes from the template, easy. Once the two bus's are installed I need to connect them to the PSX circuit breakers, the next job then is the wiring the sniffer bus, easy just two wires for all the motors. Then it is do more or less the same for the left fiddle yard board.
"Two of the Cobalt IP motors have been used before, I have bought a couple of the value packs which include new operating rods and sticky pads, it is a pity you only get three operating rods in the kit,"
Just realised this might not make sense, well the plan is to also use some anolouge motors on the right scenic board so need some rods for those, I might still need to make some out of piano wire.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on March 07, 2020, 09:16:13 PM
Keep at it Chris!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 08, 2020, 06:37:52 AM
I don't bother to pre-drill the holes.  My baseboard is 9mm ply and I find that, once the sticky pad is engaged the screws will self-tap into the ply, with a bit of elbow grease of course.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 08, 2020, 09:23:08 AM
H Laurence, by using the templet and pre drilling the holes it means you have the motor in the correct position. I have pre painted my boards so like you say the sticky pads hold the motor in position ok. Although this time i have been using a couple screws has well for safe measure.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 09, 2020, 09:59:00 PM
Well tonight was a bit of a frustrating night, I have made a board panel for the electronics much the same has on the front board. Only problem when I came to mount the circuit boards on the panel I could not find the spacers. Then I realised the down bus I wired the other night I had used the wrong cable for the bus, so I need to correct that. Then I found the spacers so I have fitted the circuit boards only to find two of the wires for the one of the led's are loose and need re soldering. It is probably just has well because all the wires need to be longer to reach the edge of the board, then they need extending to the front of the layout, reset wires and led wires.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 10, 2020, 07:49:11 AM
These little things are sent to try us!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 10, 2020, 10:13:12 PM
Back on track today, I did not manage to do any work till tonight we had two new windows fitted on the house today. So tonight I got back on track, I fitted the down bus with the correct cable and I also made the link cable from the main bus to the circuit breakers. I have also fitted the board in position although I will have to remove the circuit breakers so I can solder the wires needed for reset and the led warning lights. Putting it in position makes it easy to see where all the connections will go and avoids any mistakes. I found some black and red cable which looks just right for the Cobalt motor bus. I was using black cables for the frog wires which was a mistake, so to avoid confusion I have give them a dab of green paint. I should have used green in the first place but I was planning on using up lots of red and green cable for the motor feeds from the old peco motors. When I get round to sorting the goods yard, any points I fit will have green frog wires from now on, you know it makes sense. I will post more pics when I have completed this board.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 11, 2020, 09:36:55 PM
Tonight I removed the electronics board and I have soldered new extended wires for the reset and led indicator lights. I was not happy with the writing I had done on the board with a felt tip, so I stripped it down and gave it a re paint. I have also found some better hinges to use and I have some letter's to use for marking up the board so it should look a lot neater.
The Cobalt Sniffer I am using has it's own power supply but the latest information is to fit a little device between the pwr supply and the sniffer. I was going to fit that on the electronics board but that would mean I could no longer just plug the power supply in, I would have to use the screw terminals. I have decided to fit this inline at the pwr plug end near to the socket, that way the wire will not get in the way and I can just unplug it. I will leave the board for the paint to dry now and then I can complete that tomorrow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 14, 2020, 10:17:44 PM
Tonight I have made some more progress. I have nearly finished wiring the two bus's plus I have added the bus for the Cobalt motors. With the motor bus I have soldered the bus wires to tag strips, I have then soldered wires from the motors to the tag strips. I nearly finished but my knees and back have packed in, I only need to connect two motors and I will have finished this board. I still have three motors that need the frog switches connecting to the respective bus tag strips. I have used red and black cable for the motors, the bus is connected to the sniffer unit ready for powering up.I have used a plug in connector block for the bus to connect to the left Fiddle yard board which I will be starting on soon. I intend to have both fiddle yard boards next to each other connected together on their sides then I can program all the motors and make sure they all work. It saves having to climb under the boards looking for the little switches to set the motors. The first pic shows the circuit boards and the sniffer unit on the hinged panel with the extension wires for reset etc. Unfortunately I made the extension wires a touch short. I still need to connect the up bus to the board.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/1784-140320221301.jpeg)
The second pic you can see the red and black Motor bus cables down the centre, just two wires needed for controlling the motors.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/88/1784-140320221416.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 15, 2020, 07:09:46 AM
You've certainly been busy, Chris.  That looks like a really tidy job.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on March 15, 2020, 07:50:58 AM
That looks really tidy and organised Chris.
Itís well beyond my capabilities but itís certainly impressive.
Keep up the good work.
Martin
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 15, 2020, 09:52:40 AM
Thanks Martin and Laurence,I like to keep wiring tidy. I think it is neater with tag strips too than chocblocks although of course soldering is required. Regarding choc blocks does anybody find them a bit frustrating, you push the wire in and tighten the screw and the wire then falls out and its all curled up at the end,usually in a awkward place too.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on March 15, 2020, 10:09:14 AM
I wouldn't advise bringing your sniffer unit near me as pics of wiring just scare the  :poop: out of me :worried:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 15, 2020, 01:30:46 PM
Regarding choc blocks does anybody find them a bit frustrating, you push the wire in and tighten the screw and the wire then falls out and its all curled up at the end,usually in a awkward place too.
Hi Chris

I always double the exposed end of the wire back on itself before inserting it into the choc bloc.  That seems to ensure that it bites first time and stays connected.  It's some thing I have been doing successfully for more that fifty years.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 15, 2020, 08:41:28 PM
Yes thats what I do most of the time Laurence except when I am trying to get a few wires in the same connector. The Cobalt motors are a bit fidly to push the wires in but at least they do not need soldering.
 Tonight I have finished the board completely, I made sure to put my meter on to check for polarity before connecting the Circuit boards. One thing I have done tonight is to number the motors, to make life easy I have numbered them the same has the feed the frog is  powered from, which is the feed at the toe end of every point. The next job is wiring the second fiddle yard board, this should be a lot easier has there are no electronics on this board. It is just a matter of extending the bus wires from the first board and the same with the motors.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 16, 2020, 10:18:21 PM
More progress, I have started on the second fiddle yard board. First job was mark up the point motors using the jig and then after turning the board on its side fit the motors. So I have fitted eight motors relativly easy, one was next to a support beam so need some wood triming off the support. The two extra motors I decided to use on the fiddle yard board for head sidings,were too near to a support beam. And with the feed wires on the toe end of the point making it difficult to fit the other way round. So I cut slots for the wires and fitted the motor over them, problem solved unless I have problems with those two dropper feeds. The next job tomorrow is to position the tag strips for the dropper feeds, I also need to number the dropper feeds and make a wiring drawing for future refference.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/1784-160320222541.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 17, 2020, 10:14:02 PM
More soldering tonight, one tag strip fitted and droppers connected for the down line. I have also numbered the droppers then I prepared some tag strips ready for the up bus and the sniffer bus. This involves soldering a piece of wire across the terminals to make them the same polarity, once soldered I check them with the meter for continuity. Getting there now, seeing has all us old folk will be confined for a few weeks perhaps months becuase of the virus, I hope to finish the soldering soon or I will go mad.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 18, 2020, 06:49:14 AM
Getting there now, seeing has all us old folk will be confined for a few weeks perhaps months becuase of the virus, I hope to finish the soldering soon or I will go mad.
My storey is that, for official business, I'm sixty-nine.  :D
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 18, 2020, 11:23:15 PM
More progress tonight, the down bus has been installed, the sniffer feed cable just needs soldering to the tag strip. I have soldered most of the droppers including feeds to the motor switch for the frogs. I think I may have connected some of the wires the wrong way round after taking another look at the Cobalt wiring diagram. It asumes you have the motor at the toe end of the point, because I have a feed there I have the motors the opposite way round which changes the polarity and the way the switches need wiring. Only problem tonight was I noticed a switch rail  has come loose from the tie bar on one of the main points on the fiddle yard. When I have finished the wiring and I turn the board upright I will see if I can fix it, possibly a spot of superglue or the point will have to come up, it was a brand new one too. I think it was damaged by a box behind where I am working on the layout, the side has split because it is overflowing, mainly with old computer parts and I think it snagged on the point. These things are sent to try us but I am getting there, I hope to have finished this board by weekend.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on March 19, 2020, 12:16:34 AM
 :hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
  Looking very neat & tidy Chris, admit mostly beyond my skill level but looking splendid   :thumbsup:
        regards Derek.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 19, 2020, 06:54:12 AM
Hi Chris

All you need to do to swap the action of a Cobalt is to send it the address 197.  No need to change the wires over, although you may need to reverse the DCC connections if the frog polarity is reversed.  Also, I find that removing the spring sometimes causes the switch rail to come adrift.  If you are using the new Unifrogs, there is no need to remove the spring and, in most cases there is no problem leaving the spring in place becasue the switching happens after the electrical contact to the point blade has been broken.  I had problems with shorts when using the internal switch on Seep motors and I overcame that by installing hex frog juicers, which I don't need with the Cobalts.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 19, 2020, 09:48:42 AM
Thanks Laurence I am using the sniffer bus not off the dcc bus to control the motors. So I am using the switch with feeds from the dcc bus for the frogs. It will be a lot easier to wire them the correct way round for polarity of the frogs in the first place, I just need to study the diagram.
Thanks everyone for the comments.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 19, 2020, 09:23:47 PM
More progress on the 2nd fiddle yard board. I have wired 6 of the eight motors, I have connected the down bus. I have also connected the sniffer bus to the tag strip, I still need to connect the feeds for the polarity switches to the motors. Still not got my head round to that yet, you can see the loose wires still not connected.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/1784-190320212230.jpeg)

Ps I will stop posting these pics if its giving people nightmares with the wiring...........
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on March 19, 2020, 10:55:41 PM
Hi Chris,

Have you checked that the 'Sniffer bus' on your DCC system can control your accessory decoders?
The reason I asked is that as I understand it a sniffer bus is used to connect the main DCC output from one system to a second system that is then connected to the tracks.
So I'm not sure how you could get a DCC signal out of a sniffer bus to a decoder.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 20, 2020, 04:23:21 PM
Hi @jpendle (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3871) john, I am using a Dcc Concepts sniffer unit with a power supply which provides the bus for the motors. I am then connecting a Cobalt Alpha Central unit with built in switches to control the motors, all independent of my dcc bus.
Just thought I would add, using the Cobalt sniffer you only need two wires to the motors, so this system can be used on a dc layout. You can use the Cobalt Alpha Central like I am doing or use a Alpha AEU and use any type of switches including stud and probe.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 20, 2020, 10:07:53 PM
Latest update, I have nearly finished the wiring on the left fiddle yard board. I have fitted the up bus and fitted 2 tag strips for the extreme left droppers,2 droppers on each. I finished wiring the two motor feeds from the bus so all motors are wired up now, still need to connect the switch wires. I will download another copy of the cobalt instruction sheet, I have confused myself writing on the other one not realising the wiring on there was for a different orientation of the motors. When you turn a motor round, most of mine are not at the toe end they are under the centre of the point because I have dropper wires at the toe end. Two motors fitted where a crossbeam was in the way are at the toe end. These two points where a after thought, ie a header on the two sidings to allow longer trains to be kept there. I was not planning on having any points in the centre of the fiddle yard, but has you know plans can change. I only have to solder wires now to the left tag strips and soldering will be finished.....hooray....hooray !!! So the job will be finished this weekend.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 21, 2020, 11:24:22 PM
Well I decided to give the soldering a rest today. So I started on a job I have been putting off transferring my computer into a new smaller case. Everything working except no internet the built in network adapter as give up so using a I pad for this blog. I will get a add in network card on Monday from a local computer store,not pc world I may add. Itís a excuse for a ride out, I have ordered online for collect Monday. I will finish the wiring on the fiddle yard boards tomorrow, the next job will be programming the Cobalt motors before I turn the board over.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 22, 2020, 09:42:34 PM
Well I am back in the railway room. I connected the two remaining tag strips and then realised I had not connected the two small tag strips on the rh side. They were a bit difficult to get the soldering iron into without burning other wires but after some messing around I managed it. I need to do some testing and make a note of all the connections for future refference. I still need to connect the frog switch feeds, I need to download and print off a couple of drawings but with my computer downstairs offline at the moment it will have to wait till tomorrow. At least I have finished the soldering on these two boards....I think.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 23, 2020, 07:53:27 PM
Tonight I have sorted wiring the Cobalt motors using one of its switches for frog polarity. The thing to note is to forget the colours used, for a start I am using blue and brown. The outer rail is what matters and the orientation of the motor, most of my motors are mounted facing the other way because I have feeds at the toe end apart from two motors where a beam was in the way. If you do wire them wrong it is just a matter of swapping  s2-L and s2R over. But with 17 motors that would be a bit of a task so wiring them the correct way in the fist place helps. With my other computer back on line I downloaded and printed the diagram from Dcc Concepts site. There are lots of helpfull diagrams and videos on there to help wire their product range.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/1784-230320194556.jpeg)


Just checked the motors on the right board and I have already wired them correctly, what a good do.....
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 23, 2020, 09:35:41 PM
Well bad news I seem to have a short between the two districts, I have tried dissconnecting tag strips to no avail. The next job is to dissconnect the upper tracks maybe I have a rails connected to the wrong tag strips. A job for tomorrow now knees are hurting.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 24, 2020, 06:42:39 AM
Take it one step at a time, Chris.  If necessary, have a look at https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41012.25 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41012.25)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 24, 2020, 07:36:47 PM
Well tonight I have realised what the fault is without needing to do any testing. For there to be a fault between the up bus and the down bus there had to be some wires connected to the wrong bus. With a fresh mind looking at the board I realised a big error, I have wired the outer track ( up ) to the down bus and visversa on the last two tag strips, so a simple job of swapping them over. Phew hopefully that was easier than  I thought.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on March 24, 2020, 07:44:10 PM
Amazing what walking away from a problem for a while can do. Glad you got it sorted Chris.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on March 24, 2020, 07:52:04 PM
Iíve always said that a problem is best walked away from.
Itís amazing how a break and a re-consideration often works wonders.

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 24, 2020, 08:41:55 PM
Well I have done that but still have a fault. I have also made a blunder with my numbering system for droppers, the trouble was I was working backwords from the right board. I wanted to have consecutave numbers from left to right but I started work on the right board first because that is where all the electrics are located, back to the drawing board.......
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 24, 2020, 09:41:21 PM
Finally sorted, the fault was caused by a pair of droppers to the wrong bus tag, down instead of up. It was in the centre of the board and with the board on its side its difficult to pin point each pair of droppers. Only one wrong out of all the droppers is not bad going, I need to connect some of the motors back up now after I dissconnected them during the fault finding. At least I did not wire any the wrong way round, blue outer rail and brown inner rail worked for me.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 25, 2020, 09:02:46 PM
Like I said I sorted the track short last night, it was a bit of a longwinded exercise but I got there. Before I program the Cobalt motors I need to figure a way to control the 17 motors only using 12 switches on the Cobalt Alpha. My last fiddle yard was a pain to use even though I tried to colour code them, accidents were waiting to happen by the time you pressed the correct switches. My thinking this time is too number the sidings then have one switch control the two points ie one at each end of the siding. Just pressing one switch and a train can run straight through would be good, any thoughts or ideas on this would be appreciated. I now need to make notes of the wiring and make diagrams, not something I am not very good at but it needs doing, hopefully I will not do any more cockups......famous last words.....

Just thought I would add while working out my wiring I have found a tag strip with no feed so I need to sort that next.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 26, 2020, 07:41:41 AM
My thinking this time is to number the sidings then have one switch control the two points ie one at each end of the siding. Just pressing one switch and a train can run straight through would be good, any thoughts or ideas on this would be appreciated.
Hi Chris

I have 46 points on my layout, but I have grouped them together as routes.  For all the mainline storage loops, setting a route operates six points, eight on the Millk Loop crossover and four on the branch.  In most cases, I have set each Cobalt with an individual DCC accessory ID and then grouped them in routes.  But for crossovers and the branch runarounds, I have given two points the same DCC accessory ID number, so that switching one accessory ID switches two points at the same time.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 26, 2020, 09:37:39 AM
Thanks Laurence, I think I will do something similar , it is easy enough to program two or more Cobalts with the same switch.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 27, 2020, 09:06:59 PM
I have drawn up a plan for the fiddle yard operation, basically points 1/2/3/4 control the up lines and 5/6/7/8 control the down lines, each switch controlling two points. For a train to go straight through the fiddle yard I only need to press 1 or 5 respectavily, simple. Number 9 controls one of the headers and number ten the crossover in the centre, leaving two switches spare. I am thinking of extending the sniffer bus to the right front scenic board and then adding Alpha AEU to control the anolouge motors. The plan is to have all the controls at the front of the layout mainly on the right hand side. I was going to program the motors tonight but I forgot about the broken point switch rail. It is the main point on the downline on the left side of the fiddle yard board, in otherwords all down traffic goes over it. I turned the board over ready to fix it and typically my small table lamp packed in. I think I have managed to glue it with superglue for now, I will see how it holds out. I have not got a spare point to use the same size, and it is a new unifrog point. If the worse comes to the worse I will fix it in the straight ahead position while the shops open again and eventaully buy a replacement. I am leaving it now tonight to see if the glue holds, the tie bar is still free, I have checked. Hope everybody is ok in these difficult times, Keep Safe.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on March 28, 2020, 06:39:54 AM
The problem with streamline points is that the spring holds the tie bar rigidly in place.  If you remove it, the tie bar floats around and the point blade can pop out of its socket.  With Unifrog points, there is no chance of a short during switching so it's best to leave the spring in place.  When the cobalt changes the point, there is a fairly loud snapping noise as the spring flips the blades across but, at least, that lets you know the point has changed successfully.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Milton Rail on March 29, 2020, 11:14:29 AM
You are making great progress Chris, very neat wiring and loved the video tour of the layout   :beers:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 29, 2020, 12:56:14 PM
You are making great progress Chris, very neat wiring and loved the video tour of the layout   :beers:

Seconded!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 29, 2020, 03:54:59 PM
Thanks everyone for the replies. I made a diagram for the fiddle yard this afternoon laid out simple to avoid confusion. Last night I connected up the sniffer bus and my Cobalt Alpha Central, I managed to program most of the motors. There are two that will not program, one of them when pressing the button causes the sniffer indicator light to change to red indicating a fault or short. Unfortunately that motor is number one on my up line, due to the present crisis if the worst comes to the worst I will swap it for one of the lesser required motors. The other motor seems to have moved off centre but will not move again. I have managed to contact DCC Concepts and they have advised me to try giving the motor a direct feed on its own to see if that works. The sniffer bus is a low powered unit so wiring the two motors direct might move them. I could also remove the motor from the layout and try connecting the motor to the bus on my test track and using the handset to program it.
Once I have had a go at sorting those two motors I need to sort a few of the motors, changing the direction of travel using the 197 command. Keep safe everyone.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 29, 2020, 10:30:07 PM
Well some good news, I managed to get the motor number 1 working with a a direct feed. Then after connecting it back with the others it now works correctly. The other motor that seemed dead, DCC Concepts told me if it did not work after connecting a direct feed to try connecting a switch to the end terminals to see if it would work that way, it does so that is good news. At least I can operate it in a fashion with a seperate switch for now while this crisis is over. I now need to program some of the motors to work in the opposite direction. You need to program 197, but I have forgot how to do it with the Alpha Central. I am sure I printed off a sheet a couple of weeks ago on how to do it,( programming cobalt motors with a accessory bus), I can not find it anywhere and whats more I did not seem to have saved it on the computer. If I did, I do not which computer and where I saved it, I am losing my marbles. I will have to go on DCC Concepts site again and find it.

UPDATE.....
I have found how to do it, a video on DCC Concepts site, it is a similar procedure to setting a digital clock, done quite a bit of that today with the clocks going forward, so easy to do.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 30, 2020, 08:56:08 PM
Tonight I have programmed the Cobalt motors so they are syncronised. I have set up the Alpha switches so they are green for the selected route. Number 1 Up and number 5 Down are the two central lines, green indicates straight through. I still have a problem with one motor, but I can work round it, it is for one of the headers. The only other problem is the switch rail has come off again on the left number 5 point which is right unifrog. I do not have another point that size or I would replace it so I have ordered one on the Rails site. I can not see any messages to say they are shut for postal orders, it will be no big deal if that is the case there are more important things to worry about at the moment. I have tried to glue the rail again, I do not think it was quite in the correct position, Keep Safe everybody and keep modeling.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on March 30, 2020, 09:08:59 PM
Chris. Rails have posted info on their website. They are open only for mail order and phone calls. Hope you get what you need
 Stay safe. Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 30, 2020, 09:46:58 PM
 @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) Thanks Chris, I did not see that must have missed it so there is some hope then of getting it in the next few days. Lucky for me with it being on the end of the fiddle yard it will be easy to replace, the track is pinned down so fairly easy.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on March 30, 2020, 09:50:19 PM
It's on their website. Click on the link @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784) that's got the cv picture. Everything explained.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 30, 2020, 10:02:19 PM
@crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) Thanks again Chris I had another look and found it, so I will wait now for delivery.
Here is a purchase I made a few weeks ago for use with the layout when I build it back up.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/1784-300320220138.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 31, 2020, 09:06:09 PM
Well tonight first I swapped another Ip motor for the one with the fault, it was going to be used on the rh scenic board. So all the motors on the fiddle yard are now fully operational, the boards are now back on their legs. Something I have found out is the electronics hinged board, the catch is not strong enough to hold it up, its too heavy. So I will need to find another way of keeping that up or just leave it down, its no big deal. I have managed to repair the point, number 5 again, which is crucial for the fiddle yard down trains. My lamp started working again so with better vision I managed to glue the switch rail again, I think it is better this time. It is just has well I managed to repair it because I have found out the point I ordered from Rails is now showing on B/O , I am certain they were showing stock yesterday. I have had a tidy up in the railway room it was a bit of a mess, next job is trimming the point motor rods. Care needs to be taken when using a cutting disc, you can easily melt the tie bars, the trick is not to try and cut the bar in one go let the rod cool down.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/89/1784-310320210538.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on March 31, 2020, 09:12:40 PM
Chrism at coniston may have ideas what to use for lighting chris. Would spotlights work for you ?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on March 31, 2020, 09:37:13 PM
Thanks @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) Chris, I am not too bothered at the moment, the lighting on the fiddle yard is 3 led lamps in a fitting for the centre of the room but mounted on the back of the beam. I have got some Gu10 bulbs to fit, they are a bit brighter but they get very hot and do not seem to last very long. Eventually I will fit some better lighting for the whole layout so I can use my decent camera to take some pics. Not sure if I can compete with Roger on Wrenton but it would help with better lighting.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on April 01, 2020, 06:30:19 AM
I'm using GU10 LEDs - 350 Lumens each.  They give a good light into the corners.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 01, 2020, 05:28:05 PM
Thanks Laurence you the gu10ís do give more light than the led bulbs, that is ok in winter but they do get a bit hot. Tonight I plan on cutting the motor rods on the fiddle yard, then connect the scenic boards back up and complete the wiring for the circuit breakers. I will then need to do some track tweaking, I have noticed 1 or 2 uneven sections of track. One of the soldered rails on the end of the left scenic board has come loose, my fault leaning one board in front of another has caused the damage, easily fixed.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on April 01, 2020, 07:03:09 PM
Thanks Laurence you the gu10ís do give more light than the led bulbs, that is ok in winter but they do get a bit hot.
If you use 350 Lumen LED GU10s, they don't get hot and they give a better illumination than quartz GU10s.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 01, 2020, 08:13:12 PM
Thanks Laurence I will have to look out for some of those. The ones I have just have 2w on them, there is one in the draw says 1.2w but that is blue. They were left by my son when he moved out years ago, the fitting was in the centre of the room. It did not give enough light out for me for modeling, so I replaced it with the flurencent light.
Just managed to solder the piece of track on the board joint, it was a bit difficult, with the board being on its side did not help, I think I melted the sleeper too.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 01, 2020, 08:34:50 PM
Well my plans for tonight have just changed, while I was checking out the wiring for the circuit boards I noticed one of the soldered wires to the PSX has come adrift. To re solder that wire the circuit board has to come off, it will be a lot easier if I remove the fiddle yard board again to get too it...damm.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 01, 2020, 10:13:54 PM
Just a update: I have fixed the loose wire on the circuit board,I managed that without removing the circuit board. While I had the circuit board stripped down, I fixed the hinged board problem, a simple block of wood and a screw to hold the board in position. I also decided to make the wiring loom while I had the board out, easier than trying to check the colours crawling under the board. I have made the loom with a plugable choc block at each end, male at one end female at the other, I also made sure the wire is long enough too this time. So tomorrow I will fix the fiddle yard board back in position then I can cut the motor rods to length.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 02, 2020, 09:22:14 PM
I have not done a lot tonight, I have been busy in other parts of the house. Some of the jobs are boring but needed doing like sorting through some of my old clothes and then getting rid of old paperwork. The paperwork  had been building up for quite a while, my shredder has had its work cut out the last couple of days. I have also done some more work on my computer, I bought a leaner and smaller case a few weeks ago just before the lockdown so I was luck there. Tonight I have re arranged my main computer set up which has given me a lot more room.
Re the railway, I have re installed the fiddle yard board, I still need to cut the motor control rods then I can start some more work on the left scenic board. The first job will be to fit the back scene boards then I can put the left scenic board in position in front of the fiddle yard. There are a couple of track issues which need sorting/tweaking, there is a curve with a joint that needs sorting. I need to make sure the track joint that came loose lines up correctly too. After that a job that needs some woodwork is installing the small reset panel for controlling the circuit boards on the fiddle yard board. I can then connect that with the loom I made last night. I have found out why I got some measurements wrong, I could not find my tape measure so I used a ruler I found. I assumed it was 12" like all school rulers were, it's not it's a 15" ruler, no wonder I was out a bit using it, back to the tape.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 04, 2020, 09:15:02 PM
More progress tonight, I have cut all the Motor operating rods, no problems apart from one which was in a difficult position. The point was nearly under the overpass for the high level but I manged to extend the cutting wheel out of the chuck enough to reach the rod. I then fitted all the back boards to the left scenic board, my first attempt the tunnels did not line up correctly. So I undid them and moved the slightly left, this worked out pretty good because I had noted the right scenic board the back board seemed a touch long and it saved having to plane some wood off it to get things to fit. The left scenic back boards are made of two boards end to end, there is a slight gap between them so I have put masking tape over the join for now. I am not sure what will be going on these backboards yet, the worse case senario I can put trees in front if needed. I have also done some track tweaking in a couple of places while it was easy to get too, I have also glued the track down with copydex along with extra some cork where needed. Where I have the track join which I have just glued to make it line up better it might be in a tunnel anyway so good running is more important than how it looks.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/1784-040420211429.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 04, 2020, 09:18:14 PM
Neat. Chris have you planned for accessibility in case you need to do maintenance, track cleaning  derailment? Just a
 Thought . Chris
 
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 04, 2020, 09:26:48 PM
Thanks Chris, yes  there is going to be a tunnel there covering the four tracks on the left. It will either be open from the left side or lift off vertically, one of the too or a combination of both. It seems a shame there is such a large space at the left of this board, not sure what is going there, scenery of some sort. I want this railway with trains flowing through some countryside, that was the best bits on my old layout. One of the plans is for a large mill to the left of the river and behind the monkey bridge. I have a Metcalfe kit waiting for some kit bashing, once the layout is back together I will have more room again and I can use the small modeling desk I made from remnants of the old layout.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 04, 2020, 09:35:58 PM
Okay. I just like to have accessibility and a simple lift out section with scenery on top helps. Bob @Bob Tidbury (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3442) has this feature on his layout and I'm working on off cuts for my own in one place in the corner
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 04, 2020, 09:45:54 PM
Thanks again Chris, yes I am the same, on the first layout I had a hinged door in the side board, I made it a touch small even for my small hands. On East Lancashire lines I made a board which lifted off over the left tunnel, I never did get to building a town on the top. Another tunnel had a lift out section disguised with bushes and rocks etc so I could clean the track. If you have a hiddens section on your layout it is almost a certainty your train will stop there at sometime, access is imperative.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 04, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
Look forward to more progress on this. For now, stay safe
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 04, 2020, 10:11:30 PM
@crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) Chris, this image from my old layout "East Lancashire Lines" shows what can be done. The scenery above the two tunnels is all one piece and lifts off for access to the tracks just inside the two tunnel mouths.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/80/1784-170819210155.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 05, 2020, 12:25:30 AM
Thanks. I remember that scene. Keep up the good work. Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 05, 2020, 09:48:53 PM
Tonight I have finished some more track tweaking, and I have fixed the left scenic board in position. I have noticed the track leading down to the fiddle yard from the high level is still not quite right, so that needs some more tweaking, the good news is the track that was loose lines up ok. Also tonight I have been working on the numbers for my Cobalt Alpha control panel, I have decided to colour code them for ease of use so I have been painting them. Over the next few days the plan is to finish the wiring for the circuit boards, I also need to fit the reset panels in the front valance. I want to set them so they do not get damaged when walking past. I also plan to connect the fiddle yard up to the SB5 and check everything works.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 06, 2020, 09:51:29 PM
Tonight I have worked on tweaking the fiddle yard track where it joins the left scenic board, the test will be when I attempt to run trains over the join. I have decided against setting the reset panel's into the front valance, I realised when I started to measure up the valance wood is not deep enough. So I have now fitted the reset panel for the front circuit breakers onto the valance and connected the wires using Kwikonnects they are easy to use and easy to dissconnect if required. I have cut the hole big enough in the front valance so I can add warning led's later. The panel I am using for the fiddle yard already has led warning lights because that circuit board was fitted under the old layout board. Tomorrow I will cut the hole for the other circuit breaker panel, that will be fitted on the rh side next to where the Alpha central is going to be fitted.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 07, 2020, 08:48:49 PM
Well tonight I have made the hole for the circuit board panel and fitted the panel to the valance. I have also fitted the rh scenic board to the layout so it is all together now a complete layout. I have fitted the wiring harness and connected it up I have also connected the main supply bus to the fiddle yard electronics. I have finished painting the numbers for the Alpha panel and given them a coat of varnish for protection. The next job is fitting them in position on the Alpha panel. I have a bit more track tweaking to do I have noticed another track soldered joint that has come loose so that needs fettling then everything should be ready for the big switch on.......will it all work.....?

By the way keep safe everybody.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 07, 2020, 08:57:51 PM
Well tonight I have made the hole for the circuit board panel and fitted the panel to the valance. I have also fitted the rh scenic board to the layout so it is all together now a complete layout. I have fitted the wiring harness and connected it up I have also connected the main supply bus to the fiddle yard electronics. I have finished painting the numbers for the Alpha panel and given them a coat of varnish for protection. The next job is fitting them in position on the Alpha panel. I have a bit more track tweaking to do I have noticed another track soldered joint that has come loose so that needs fettling then everything should be ready for the big switch on.......will it all work.....?

By the way keep safe everybody.

Good luck with the switch on - are you going to post a video of it working?

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on April 07, 2020, 09:01:20 PM
ready for the big switch on.......

Are you getting a celebrity in to throw the switch?  ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 07, 2020, 09:07:35 PM
Thanks guys for the comments, would you believe I am a bit nervous of the switch on. I have spent so long on testing all the wiring so in theory it should work and yes if it does run I will post a video to celebrate.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on April 08, 2020, 10:00:13 AM
ready for the big switch on.......

Are you getting a celebrity in to throw the switch?  ;)

Sadly social distancing etiquette has knocked that idea on the head.

if it does run I will post a video to celebrate.

Look forward to seeing the vid then, Chris :)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 10, 2020, 09:19:14 PM
Well Tonight I took the plunge and plugged the SB5 Booster into the system, my worries were unfounded. I did not connect the left scenic board just the right front where the electronics are and the fiddle yard. Well the good news the system fired up has normal, I have one or two issues trying to run a train on the right front board with dirty track plus only one point has a motor at this moment in time. Messing around with my UM 3f I manged to make a short and the reset buttons worked correctly so that is good news. I do not yet have led indicators for the front board, the next job is a track cleaning session and fix a few track issues I have. I found a bad track joint, of course it is almost under the overpass and I also have found another track board join that has come loose which needs soldering. I have also found a track join where one track seems a touch high where the track goes over the viaduct. But I am pleased that things work ok that I have tried up to now, I need to find my jumper cables and connect the left scenic board. I should be able to have a good run on there with no points and also I need to test run trains on the fiddle yard. Sorry not a video yet but at least a pic.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/1784-100420211823.jpeg)

I forgot to add Everybody Keep Safe.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 10, 2020, 10:29:39 PM
Perhaps I should explain what gave me doubts about  my wiring on this layout. When I put my meter on the wiring connections with the  PSX Circuit breakers connected it showed a short, dissconnecting them and the short dissapeared. I did find a short on one board, that was a pair of droppers connected to the wrong bus, that was easy. But it just shows how you can start to doubt yourself especially after asking on the forum and guys where saying you must have wired something wrong somewhere. Now I can look forward to progressing with the layout, finish tweaking the track and fit the motors on the rh scenic board I then need to do a test run on the fiddle yard. It is a bit dark on there at the moment since fitting the back scenic boards so I need to pull the layout out for access. The only problem I might have is if I have wired the point motor frog wires the wrong way round. I am confident I have not but we shall see, watch this space, once I have the testing done I can start on the scenics again.....hooray.
Keep Safe Everybody.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on April 11, 2020, 09:42:08 AM
Methinks we need to see a vid of the testing, Chris ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 11, 2020, 09:08:38 PM
Tonight I have fixed three soldered track Joints, two of those had come loose the third just needing a bit of tweaking. I have fixed another joint near the underpass were one rail was not in the fishplate, then I glued the track down. I have also re aligned a siding where it joined the goods yard point, waiting for glue to dry now. I have just found a point where the track has come out of the insulated joiner but I have managed to fix it and re glue the track.
 I am now going to check through my anoulouge Cobalt motors and see which are the best ones to use. I need at least 4 at the moment, maybe a another for two sidings. I have two AD2FX accessory decoders I can use with them, I can work two motors of each input so I will figure some way of using at least one too control two points. The next job is testing the fiddle yard and of course the gradient sections, I am confident I should have no problems.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on April 12, 2020, 06:33:42 AM
Keep plugging away, Chris (not literally, of course).
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 12, 2020, 09:59:35 AM
Tonight I have fixed three soldered track Joints, two of those had come loose the third just needing a bit of tweaking. I have fixed another joint near the underpass were one rail was not in the fishplate, then I glued the track down. I have also re aligned a siding where it joined the goods yard point, waiting for glue to dry now. I have just found a point where the track has come out of the insulated joiner but I have managed to fix it and re glue the track.
 I am now going to check through my anoulouge Cobalt motors and see which are the best ones to use. I need at least 4 at the moment, maybe a another for two sidings. I have two AD2FX accessory decoders I can use with them, I can work two motors of each input so I will figure some way of using at least one too control two points. The next job is testing the fiddle yard and of course the gradient sections, I am confident I should have no problems.

Hi @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784) Chris,

I knew Iíd read a post from Ďa Chrisí who had mentioned cobalt analogue point motors..

Anyway would you be able to upload a full size picture of one of the n gauge mounting templates.

Iíve decided Iím probably going to use cobalts - but they are on back order with DCC concepts.

Iíve started track laying but Iím now stuck as I want to lay points but want to pre drill for the cobalts , but without the template itís impossible.

Many thanks in advance..

Cheers Derek.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 12, 2020, 04:13:25 PM
@degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267)  hi there Derek, the Cobalt motors digital or anolouge are the same size and fitting. I have one of the original templates which they do not seem to supply any more, they used to come with multiple boxes of motors. The template was designed to central the motor with the point, with n-gauge points the tie bar hole is off centre. So all you need to do when laying your point is make a 7mm hole in-line with the tie bar hole. The motors usually come with sticky pads so it is easy to locate the motor under the point. Then add screws after if you need to, painting your base board underneath makes mounting the motor easier. I will post a pic later if you want of the template because if you do choose to drill the mounting holes for the motor it does make it it easy to mount the motor in the exact place. I was lucky I just managed to buy enough digital motors before they went b/o, my local shop had a box of 6 which I snapped up. I have about 15 anolouge motors and again I was lucky I managed to buy 2 x AD2FX decoders just enough to get my layout working. The Cobalts are brilliant motors, itís funny though I have a few which are slow but they still work, I just prefer the faster ones.
I should add you are reccomended to remove the spring on the point with Cobalt motors, you can flick it out after with a small craft knife or screwdriver. Make sure you centralise the point blades before you mark where the hole needs to be for the tie bar hole.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 12, 2020, 04:57:32 PM
@degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267)  hi there Derek, the Cobalt motors digital or anolouge are the same size and fitting. I have one of the original templates which they do not seem to supply any more, they used to come with multiple boxes of motors. The template was designed to central the motor with the point, with n-gauge points the tie bar hole is off centre. So all you need to do when laying your point is make a 7mm hole in-line with the tie bar hole. The motors usually come with sticky pads so it is easy to locate the motor under the point. Then add screws after if you need to, painting your base board underneath makes mounting the motor easier. I will post a pic later if you want of the template because if you do choose to drill the mounting holes for the motor it does make it it easy to mount the motor in the exact place. I was lucky I just managed to buy enough digital motors before they went b/o, my local shop had a box of 6 which I snapped up. I have about 15 anolouge motors and again I was lucky I managed to buy 2 x AD2FX decoders just enough to get my layout working. The Cobalts are brilliant motors, itís funny though I have a few which are slow but they still work, I just prefer the faster ones.

Hi @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784) Chris,

If you would please post the picture of the template at full size so the holes are in the exact positions, it will make life easier downstream as I won't be able to get the boards upside down so will be fixing from the undersides.

Ive gone a bit overkill on the first 2 points and gone for a hole resembling about 7 mm but elongated to maybe 10mm in line with the tiebars, so I'll have to find a way to stop any ballast escaping through those when the time comes to do that lol.

Going to contact DCC Concepts next week to see if I can put a backorder in for the motors or whether I have to just wait until they come into stock..

Anyway - thanks for the help..

Cheers Derek





 
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 12, 2020, 07:29:56 PM
@degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) Here you are Derek, hope it is of use to you.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/1784-120420192831.jpeg)

I have circled the four N-Gauge holes just line up the hole between the two red marks on the left with the tie bar. It was intended to press the tags down on the two red holes so the template centralized on the track, but then you would have to drill a hole in the tie bar.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 12, 2020, 07:37:02 PM
@degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) Here you are Derek, hope it is of use to you.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/1784-120420192831.jpeg)

I have circled the four N-Gauge holes just line up the hole between the two red marks on the left with the tie bar. It was intended to press the tags down on the two red holes so the template centralized on the track, but then you would have to drill a hole in the tie bar.

Hi @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784) Chris,

Great - I'll print it off at 100% tomorrow and place it under a point and see if it lines up

If not I'll just drill the 7mm hole under one of the holes in the tie bar.

Many thanks

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 12, 2020, 07:47:51 PM
@degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267)  Hi Derek just another pic showing both types of motor, has you can see they are both the same size.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/1784-120420194629.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 12, 2020, 09:19:03 PM
I have a video here showing my first test across the two scenic boards. I still have a few track issues that need sorting, for some reason the tracks are not ligning up correct from the high level to the fiddle yard on the rh side so that is a major job.
Here is my 3f going over my viaduct.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 12, 2020, 09:30:46 PM
I have a few issues to deal with has in the last post, another is wiring the point motors on the right scenic board. I am going to try and do it with the board in situ to save removing it again, it is a bit of a juggle to get the board in position and maybe that is how four track joins have been damaged. I can plan the wiring for the motors and make the loom up and then install it under the layout, there are only two wires from the loom to each motor. The main difference is I will be using 2x AD2FX Accessory decoders for 5 of the anolouge motors, I still have two digital motors for the two main curved points on the station loop. Last night I sorted through my Cobalt anolouge motors and prepared them for fitting, I have made some rods out of piano wire for some of them. The Cobalt motors are slow action motors but I have found some of the early anolouge ones I have are slower than others so I have picked the best of the bunch.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 12, 2020, 10:21:07 PM
@degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267)  Hi Derek just another pic showing both types of motor, has you can see they are both the same size.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/1784-120420194629.jpeg)

Thanks Chris,

Assuming these are the ip digital and the ip analogue?

Iím going to opt for the analogue I think, especially to keep costs down..

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 13, 2020, 09:49:55 AM
Hi Derek the left is a Ip digital the right a classic anolouge but they are all the same size. They are wired differently though. That digital one is faulty but works with a switch attatched,DCC Concepts said they will repair it or replace it after the crisis is over.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 13, 2020, 10:03:18 AM
Hi Derek the left is a Ip digital the right a classic anolouge but they are all the same size. They are wired differently though. That digital one is faulty but works with a switch attatched,DCC Concepts said they will repair it or replace it after the crisis is over.

Cheers Chris  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 13, 2020, 10:20:04 PM
Well tonight I have done some more testing, I have also fitted 4x anolouge motors and the faulty digital with the switch. One of the advantages of using the motors with the piano wire rods is they can be cut with my wire snippers. I think I have thought of a way to remove the board without has much hastle. If I also loosen the catches on the right side of the left board I can the ease both boards forwards and then disengage the right board from the left board which should make life easier. It will be far easier to wire the point motors with the board on it's side, it should not take too long. Once I have done that I can then concentrate on the board track joins that need fettling, then some serious testing can go ahead.

                                                   Keep Safe Everybody.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 14, 2020, 09:12:17 PM
Tonight I have stripped the right scenic board from the layout, my plan made it a lot easier, quite obvious really, should have done it that way before. So tonight I am wiring up the point motors, I need to make a tag strip first then they can all be connected. I am also going to wire the feeds and frogs for the inbuilt switches on the Cobalt motors. I will post some pics after I have finished so back to the soldering again.


UPDATE:  I have finished wiring the sniffer bus on the board ready for connecting the motors. So I need to solder feed wires for the switches and connect the two digital motors direct to the tag strip, and connect the AD2FX units to the tag strips. The anolouge motors connect to the AD2FX units.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 15, 2020, 09:54:02 PM
At last I think I have finished soldering, just has well running out of Liquid flux. I have today wired up all the motors on the scenic board with feeds. The tag strip feeds the digital motors direct, the AD2FX units are also fed from the tag strip.The anolouge motors are fed from the AD2FX units. One unit is feeding 3 motors, the two crossover point motors are connected together through a Gaugemaster Kwik Konnect, there was no way of getting two lots of wires into the AD2FX unit. At present I am using four anolouge motors but eventaully when I decide where the sidings are going and where to place the point I will use another anolouge motor. I have made the connection to the Fiddleyard sniffer bus under the fiddleyard board, using a plug in choc block connector. The next big job is to make a control panel for the anolouge points on the scenic board. The two digital motors I am using work on the station loop and I have two switches left to work them on The Alpha unit. The plan is to make the panel using switches and connect them to the sniffer bus using a Cobalt Alpha AEU. This unit changes ordinary switche operation into digital commands, that will be exciting to get working. I am not sure yet if I am going to modify the old control panel for Ramsbury station or start again, I think I still have some new switches I can use.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-150420213127.jpeg)

I should add the loose wires are either frog wires waiting to be connected or feed wires for the frog switches. I need to work out now which way the switches work for correct polarity of the frogs.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 16, 2020, 09:30:25 PM
Well today the layout is back together, I have connected all the frog and supply wires to the motors, they should all be the correct polarity. One or two did not lign up correctly and needed modifactions to the rod operating hole. I managed to do that without any mishaps unfortunately putting the board back together was not so successfull. The centre support legs seem to get in the way and while I was trying to fit the board back I damaged a track join. Has it happens it was the one that needing sorting anyway on the high level section to the fiddle yard board. I had some good luck for a change, the two motors that needed tweaking I had not cut the rods off because they are the hardened steel ones.
I managed to get through to DCC Concepts today and confirm that my plans for the control of the front point motors should work with the Alpha AEU unit and I found that I do not need to supply power to the switches the AEU should take care of that requirement. So three jobs now to get some decent trains running. 1/ fix the track join (in awkward place) 2/ make some sort of control panel for the station and goods yard, 3/ tweak the track on the high level section near the track join. So fun ahead but at last I am getting somewhere. Only trouble is I have to go shopping tomorrow which I now hate with all this social distancing. We need to shop for my father-in law who is 83 has well as ourselves. He lives in sheltered housing but the company is not very good, thats what you are up against. KEEP SAFE EVERYBODY
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 16, 2020, 09:31:56 PM
Glad your sorted chris and dcc concepts could help. PM sent
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 18, 2020, 08:22:56 PM
Well tonight I have been working on the control panel. I needed a box to house the panel and I have come up with what I think is a good idea. I plan to use the old angled box, I noticed one side was not symetrical so out came the wood plain, so sorted that. The old box was hinged but I do not need to do that, I will just make a nice piece of board to fit the top. The box is just under 1'6" wide which is just wide enough to mount the Alpha Central on the left side with room for a small fiddle yard diagram over the top. The right side will have a diagram of the station and Goods yard and the switches fitted with led's. The Alpha encoder (AEU) will be fitted inside the box with the switches connected to it. A link wire will connect the two Alpha units together, I have ordered a Alpha extension display unit to fit on the right top next to the diagram, this will give me a read out of which switches are in operation, although the led's should be working. From this panel assy are two wires connecting it to the Alpha sniffer unit. DCC concepts told me there should be power to the switches from the Aplha and sniffer unit so no need for a power supply to the switches. If there is not enough power I can easily add a power supply and plug it into one of the Alpha units. I intend to design and print the track diagrams and then laminate them and fasten on the front of the board. Tomorrow I intend to have a go at sorting the track join which means getting the soldering iron out. Pics to follow in the future.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 19, 2020, 03:48:36 PM
Well its so nice outside so I forced myself to stay in and be good. I made the best of it, I rebuilt the control box using some board I found. The only bit left from the old box is the two ends, I have taken more care this time on building this box. For a start its a bit more square, the only problem is I have no board I can use for the panel itself. I have one piece of board left but it is too thick for the switches, I had some very thin ply so I have ended up bonding two pieces together which should do. I am now leaving that to dry overnight, I now need to design the diagram, not sure what software I am going to use for that probably paint. Then print it out and laminate it and fix to the board.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-190420153902.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 19, 2020, 03:53:56 PM
Impressive woodwork. DarrwestLU6 is pretty up to good with  software. Worth pm ing him @DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745) and having a look through threads on control panels. I cannot remember who had built a panel  . There is a thread if you google n gauge control panel software darren started
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 19, 2020, 07:11:10 PM
I now need to design the diagram, not sure what software I am going to use for that probably paint. Then print it out and laminate it and fix to the board.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-190420153902.jpeg)

Hi Chris,

Powerpoint or Word is also reasonable for line diagrams if you have either of those?

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 19, 2020, 08:51:46 PM
Well thanks for the tip Derek unfortunately I do not have either,I do have Open Office that might work. Looking at the picture I posted this afternoon I noticed I needed to use a cutting disc to cut the two point motor operating rods, so I have done that with no mishaps. I am still trying to keep fit so I have done just over ten miles on the bike tonight, there was less people out than there would have been during the day but some people are just ignorant and ignore social distancing. I give them has wide a berth has possible, Keep Safe Everybody.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 19, 2020, 10:52:05 PM
Well thanks for the tip Derek unfortunately I do not have either,I do have Open Office that might work. Looking at the picture I posted this afternoon I noticed I needed to use a cutting disc to cut the two point motor operating rods, so I have done that with no mishaps. I am still trying to keep fit so I have done just over ten miles on the bike tonight, there was less people out than there would have been during the day but some people are just ignorant and ignore social distancing. I give them has wide a berth has possible, Keep Safe Everybody.
Hi Chris,

No worries, have sent you a direct message, might be able to help.

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 20, 2020, 07:36:35 PM
Well this afternoon I finished off the panel for the front of the control box, I used a electric plane to make the edges good and sqaure. I am really happy with the panel, think I will give it a coat of white primer, I intend to glue my laminated diagram onto it. Thanks to Derek, @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267)  for doing another drawing for me. Not sure which drawing I am going to use yet.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 20, 2020, 09:37:59 PM
Tonight I decided to paint the panel and the box. I now going to have a go at doing my fiddle yard drawing, will see how that pans out. I have a couple of railway related items comimg in the post this week, one is a extended display for the Alpha encoder, I need to mount that on the front panel next to the station drawing. The encoder will be fitted inside the box with a  small hole for the connecting cable to the Alpha Central which will be mounted on the front left of the panel.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 20, 2020, 09:43:26 PM
On another note can anyone explain to me the pic on the calender on my wall. The loco is either going backwards or its on the wrong track with a signal for the opposite direction, it has puzzled me since I first saw it, then I will change it back to April.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-200420214224.jpeg)

by the way its at Arnside
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on April 21, 2020, 07:48:01 AM
Two possibilities spring to mind.  One is that the photo has simply been printed the wrong way round.  You would have to be familir with the location to know that.  Also, the steam is obscuring the semaphore arm, a clear view of which would confirm which way round the picture should be.  The second is that there is a PW works on the other line and lingle line working has been implemented for the duration of the works.  I'm sure there are other explanations as well.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 21, 2020, 10:01:24 PM
Thanks @Innovationgame (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3091) Laurence,I think the pic is the correct way round. Looking at the pic close up thw signal looks the correct way, I can see the red on the end of the arm and the square plate and the diamond plate are on the correct side of the post. If the pic was reversed they would be on the wrong side. There must be another explanation for the pic then, like you say work on the track and possibly single line running perhaps.

Re the layout, more work on the control box. I have re done both drawings myself thanks to Derek @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) for trying to help.I decided to have another go at the station drawing taking a little more care plus I have done the fiddle yard drawing too.That one might be a touch too wide and deep, I can get away with the depth. I will wait till my display comes from DCC Concepts to see if I have room, if not I will re do it a touch smaller. There is a facility in Paint that allows you to adjust the image size, the trouble is when you print it it still prints at the same size, I can't get my head round that one.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-210420220003.jpeg)

By the way I have decided to use the same station name has on the last layout, it saves making new signs. Recycle......
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 21, 2020, 11:12:08 PM
Well I tried to do another drawing, a smaller version of the fiddle yard drawing, trouble is it was not has good. I have had another go at resizing this drawing which I like, I reduced the size but when I print it out it still prints at the original size. Any way I tried printing it for A5 size instead and that looks the perfect size, so I need to laminate that one now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Bealman on April 21, 2020, 11:23:33 PM
That trackwork your control box is resting on looks very neat, Chris!  :thumbsup:

Box looks good, too!

Re: calendar.... strong wind?  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 21, 2020, 11:38:52 PM
Hi Chris,

Really glad you got the drawings sorted to the right size.

I was using a program called Adobe Illustrator, which I havenít used for year's, but wanted to give it another go. To be fair it would do a fantastic job for these types of drawings, but the overall print size is essential from the outset to set up the art board so that it prints out to the exact specification. I didnít realise this until after Iíd done the first draft, in hindsight I should have asked you for the height and width constraints to fit in the exact panel - it would have been relatively easier then.

Importantly for myself, I learned how simple these panel drawings are compared to the actual layout. Up to now Iíve seen them and couldnít associate the drawing to the layout, because they are just straight lines, compared to the curves of a layout. But after having a go at your drawing I realised how straight lines do replicate a curved layout. On top of that I rekindled my interest in Illustrator, so in due course Iíll certainly do these types of drawings for my own layout.

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 21, 2020, 11:55:14 PM
Thanks Derek, @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) I have just had a go using Microsoft Paint 3d, I managed to print it on a piece of A4 but across the top ie not landscape. It is a midges narrower than the A5 drawing and not has deep. The advantage is when laminating it will be better because its at one end. I am not sure what will happen when I cut it to size, the A5 might de-laminate so I think this one is better. Yes I made my old one using lining tape and the angled lines to represent curves, if you do it right it looks good and professional.
I have limited room to get two drawings on the board, the fiddle yard drawing is going on the top left with the Cobalt Alpha sat below it. On the right side the station drawing will be fitted to the far right with the switches and Led's mounted on the drawing, hopefullly enough room to the left of the drawing for the extended display. The Alpha encoder will be fitted inside the box, most of the box is wasted to be honest, I am just using the box to mount the Alpha central at a angle to the layout but it was the easiest way I could think of because both units need to be linked together.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 22, 2020, 12:08:54 AM
Thanks for the comment @Bealman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255) , not surprising where the location is, my sister lives not far from there. I will go and have a look  for this location and pay her a visit after the lockdown finishes.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on April 22, 2020, 12:26:21 AM
On another note can anyone explain to me the pic on the calender on my wall. The loco is either going backwards or its on the wrong track with a signal for the opposite direction, it has puzzled me since I first saw it, then I will change it back to April.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-200420214224.jpeg)

by the way its at Arnside

I agree Arnside and the loco is actually the Hogwarts Express and because it's magic it's OK for it to run at speed backwards over Arnside Viaduct  :D

The only rational explanation that I can think of is that there were engineering works entailing single line running.

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 22, 2020, 08:51:24 AM
Thanks Derek, @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) I have just had a go using Microsoft Paint 3d, I managed to print it on a piece of A4 but across the top ie not landscape. It is a midges narrower than the A5 drawing and not has deep. The advantage is when laminating it will be better because its at one end. I am not sure what will happen when I cut it to size, the A5 might de-laminate so I think this one is better. Yes I made my old one using lining tape and the angled lines to represent curves, if you do it right it looks good and professional.
I have limited room to get two drawings on the board, the fiddle yard drawing is going on the top left with the Cobalt Alpha sat below it. On the right side the station drawing will be fitted to the far right with the switches and Led's mounted on the drawing, hopefullly enough room to the left of the drawing for the extended display. The Alpha encoder will be fitted inside the box, most of the box is wasted to be honest, I am just using the box to mount the Alpha central at a angle to the layout but it was the easiest way I could think of because both units need to be linked together.
Hi Chris,

Sounds like youíve got it well sussed mate. Will you take a picture and post it when itís completed please, Iím looking forward to seeing it.

Cheers Derek  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 23, 2020, 07:54:11 PM
Well more painting then sanding and then more painting last night and today, I have put the first coat of gloss on today. I have more or less decided to use the A5 print of the drawing, lets face it my eyes are not going to get any better of the next few years so why make it smaller than need to. I have cut a handset holder into two to hold the Alpha Central but I found they were not deep enough, so I have had to make two pieces of wood to heighten them a touch, you will know what I mean when I eventually post a pic of the completed panel. I am still waiting for my encoder display extension, its in the post somewhere, I will need to cut a hole in the panel for it to fit. My magnets have arrived from York modelmaking, thanks Julie. I want to finish the panel so I can operate the the layout fully for proper testing. I still need to solder the track join and tweak it a bit, I do not think it will be a major problem, its just in a awkward place to get too.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 24, 2020, 08:29:20 PM
Well the painting continues, the display has arrived today from DCC Concepts so I can decide where that is going to be fitted. Work has started now on the control panel, hardist part is fitting the switches and led's, drilling the holes etc.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 24, 2020, 09:36:56 PM
Well a lot of work tonight fitting switces etc. I need to finish the hole for the display and then fit the encoder inside and connect the switches and display.Then I need to connect the two Alpha units together then connect to the sniffer bus. I will then need to program the two AD2FX units for the anolouge motors and see if it works. To get the drawings to work I have had to play about about to get them to fit, I am quite happy with the result. It would have been nicer if I could have fitted the Alpha centralinto a hole into the panel rather than stuck on it. When things get a bit more back to normal I might buy some more wood and remake the panel. I nearly dropped a clog with the panel I made it was a touch too thick, the switches only just went through, I supposidly measured the thickness.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-240420213211.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 24, 2020, 11:46:25 PM
Hi Chris,

Itís looking really good  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on April 25, 2020, 12:21:41 AM
 :hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
  Nice looking panel Chris, top stuff
   :thumbsup:
     stay safe regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on April 25, 2020, 06:31:21 AM
:hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
  Nice looking panel Chris, top stuff
   :thumbsup:
     stay safe regards Derek
Wot he said!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on April 25, 2020, 09:06:40 AM
Very impressive, Chris, but stop messing about. We want to see trains running! ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 25, 2020, 10:35:35 PM
Thanks everyone for the comments. I have fitted the display,that was a bit fiddly getting the hole the correct size. I wanted the display to fit snuggly into the panel, otherwise I would have to glue it in position something I wanted to avoid. A problem I have encountered is the link wire between the two Aplha's is not very long. So I have glued a block of wood inside the panel box to raise the encoder a bit. I am now thinking of fitting hinges on the lid like the previous box otherwise your trying to hold the lid while connecting wires etc.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-250420222443.jpeg)
Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) I want to run trains too but I need the point motors operational in the station, they are on a extension of the operational system used on the fiddle yard board ie the sniffer bus. I still need to fix the track join, I was thinking of doing it tonight but it's a bit warm in here. I had mistakenly switched on a socket not realising the electric radiator was on, it is supposed to be thermostatically controlled, so much for that.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 25, 2020, 10:39:40 PM
Great job Chris,

Nice and tidy mate.

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 25, 2020, 10:41:09 PM
Impressive. Would like too see trains running and @DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745) is the team expert on electrics. But chris looking good with your panel.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 26, 2020, 12:45:50 AM
Thanks for the comments. I wanted to avoid all the wiring connections I had on the last control panel, this system avoids all that of course at a cost. I have probably explained all this before but this will save somebody having to back track through my posts. The right side is using basic Dcc concepts switches from my old panel, then connected to the Alpha encoder inside the box. Two wires from each switch to the encoder which converts them into a digital signal. The Aplha encoder is connected to the Alpha Central which is connected to the sniffer bus with one cable, no need trying to make a printer cable connector work anymore. The sniffer bus consists of a twin cable bus for the motors on the fiddle yard which is extended to the front scenic board for the station. The station section is a mixture of digital and anolouge motors, I am using a couple of AD2FX accessory decoders for the anolouge motors. This system is independant of my dcc bus so could be used on a non dcc layout.
I have tonight now fitted hinges on the lid of the box, the only trouble is the lid does not fit flush at the top anymore so I need to do some more woodwork to rectify that. the box is easier to use with the hinged lid, it will be a piece of cake doing the inside wiring now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on April 26, 2020, 10:32:15 AM
@lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784) You know I'm joshing about a vid and I dare say you're more impatient than I am to see things running. That's the problem with point motors etc - I can run trains at the moment but when it comes to the motors everything will have to come up again and trains won't be run until the job is finished (if it ever is) and that's what keeps putting me off :-[
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 26, 2020, 01:26:58 PM
Thanks Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) yes I know what you mean. Once i have the wiring finished i will need to program the AD2FX's for the anolouge motors and the two digital motors, this involves crawling undetr and flicking some switches, still a bit unconvenient.

Update: I have wired the switches and the display unit. I have also fitted a piece of wood to fill the gap at the top, that also needed some wood filler which would be best leaving overnight. I also had get rid of the end of screws for the hinges that came through the front panel, so a bit of touching up required with the paintbrush. I am just a bit annoyed with myself, I left the paintbrush out overnight and now its gone hard. It was with Dulux water based gloss if anyone knows a way of softening the brush, cheapbrush but it was a new one.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 27, 2020, 05:34:13 PM
Just done some sanding and more painting to the box, looking a lot better now. Tonight I plan to have a go at the track join, I will see what I can do to get good running. I will double check the other track joins before I can start some serious testing.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 27, 2020, 09:08:59 PM
More painting and sanding on the control box,pretty happy with it now. I need to think of a way to attach it to the front board, then I can plug it in and see what happens, hopefully it will work has planned. Also tonight I have had a go at soldering the track join, it was a fiddly job mainly because it was awkward to get too. There is a open space in the baseboard near and I managed to crawl under and come up through the hole, a tight squeeze but I made it. I am thinking of whatever I build on that space I might make it removable for future access if required. The joint was a pig, one side seemed lower than the other which was causing derailments. So in the end I held the rail in the correct position with pliers while I put the soldering iron against the outside of the rail. It seems to have worked, all I can think of is the screws into the baseboard where not both at the same height, bit of a mystery.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on April 27, 2020, 10:04:21 PM
I need to think of a way to attach it to the front board,

6 inch nails and a lump hammer?    No? Oh well, just a thought.

Seriously Chris, I think you are doing a great job.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 27, 2020, 10:57:01 PM
thanks David @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) I will probably end up with two elongated holes with screws sticking out of somewhere, that is how it was fitted before, this box feels a bit heavy though.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on April 28, 2020, 11:12:44 AM
Chris - these are what I'll be using to hang control panels off the back or front of my layouts.
Means the control panel can just be lifted away if necessary and the screws only jut out about 1/8".

https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=glass+plate+slotted&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 (https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&q=glass+plate+slotted&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 28, 2020, 12:16:07 PM
Thanks Mick but I hate to queue, it is bad enough for shopping once a week. I tried ordering some off Amazon but they will take a week, too long, I will make something.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on April 28, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Thanks Mick but I hate to queue, it is bad enough for shopping once a week. I tried ordering some off Amazon but they will take a week, too long, I will make something.

It was more the idea I wanted to plant, Chris. I'd have thought they'd be fairly simple to make either from thin ply or metal. Drill the necessary holes and then use a decent file to make the 'keyhole' bit
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 28, 2020, 12:37:44 PM
Thanks Mick that is how I fitted the old box onto two screws with large heads. This box is made with thicker board, I will do it somehow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 28, 2020, 01:10:58 PM
Hi Chris,

One piece of 2x1 wood with a mitre 45 cut through the end then another with the opposite mitre.

Fix to the board so that the longest length of the mitre is at the front and the opposite on your box

Youíll end up with 2 opposing mitres - they form a Ďhangerí and as long and you put a few in place will be more than sturdy enough for hanging the box - itís called a French Cleat.

Easier to add the picture straight away, the rectangles are your baseboard and the box (End profile) and the bits with the mitres are the hangers. They form a really strong way of hanging stuff, anyway just an idea.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/8267-280420131614.jpeg)


Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on April 28, 2020, 02:09:53 PM
French Cleat - I have been edyoukated today.
 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 28, 2020, 02:58:26 PM
French Cleat - I have been edyoukated today.
 :thankyousign:

Youíre welcome Mick  :laughabovepost:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 28, 2020, 03:19:50 PM
Nice one Derek, @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) I like it, I might make a version of that. I can be a bit clumsy so a bit of  ply wood on the end so I donít walk into it and knock it off.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 28, 2020, 03:32:42 PM
Nice one Derek, @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) I like it, I might make a version of that. I can be a bit clumsy so a bit of  ply wood on the end so I donít walk into it and knock it off.
Hi Chris,

Good point I forgot to mention that you should put a stop lat at each end of the mitres you fix to the baseboard, like you say, those will prevent the box getting knocked straight off and onto the floor. Normally you would fix a longer length of say 2x1 horizontally with  the mitre along the top edge and then a couple of shorter lengths on whatever you are hanging, itís a bit more secure, but as long as you place stop lats, the smaller bits will do just fine.

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 28, 2020, 09:45:44 PM
Well a very frustrating evening, no matter what I do I can not get the control panel to work. I managed to get the 17 motors working on the fiddle yard on their own but now they do not work again. I will have to contact dcc concepts tomorrow, I think that the sniffer unit is not powerfull enough, the blurb tells you it will power more motors than I am using.

Update: I have tried my 3f over the track joins I supposidly fixed, they are still not good enough. Also a track join at the other end of fiddle yard, the loco went over ok forwards but derailed backwards. So some work to do with the track. I do not know why the track joins are out of line, the boards where bolted together when I laid the track and soldered in position, must have been some movement somewhere. I only have a small piece of new track left so I may end up re cycling some old track over the joins.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 28, 2020, 11:11:24 PM
Well tonight after all the faliures I have decided tomorrow to make a concerted effort to fix the track issues and at least get some trains running.
Re my control panel issues, I have been on dcc concepts forum but will probably ring them tomorrow for advice. I have a feeling that the sniffer bus is not powerfull enough and I will probably be better off using the Alpha box which is more powerfull, I will see what they say tomorrow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on April 29, 2020, 07:44:33 AM
I'm sorry to hear about your problems, Chris.  The Cobalt problem is a bit of a mystery.  I run everything direct from my Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance and I have 46 Cobalts.  However, the most punishing route only switches eight points simultaneously.  Keep plugging away at the track.  That's one of my bugbears, mainly in the storage loops, thankfully and not out on the scenic part of the layout.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 29, 2020, 12:39:22 PM
Well I had two very constructive calls with DCC Concepts this morning which of course led to me spending some more money. But I am happy with the outcome, I have upgraded from the Sniffer  to the Alpha Box along with a few other bits. So I will now have to wait for delivery now expected next week sometime, meanwhile I am going to concentrate my efforts on sorting the track.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 29, 2020, 12:49:05 PM
Hi Chris,

Glad to hear that the control aspect seems sorted, those guys at DCC Concepts are very nice people and really helpful, I know I enjoyed my chat a couple of weeks ago when I was asking about the cobalt motors and the switch packs.

Good luck sorting the track mate, I donít envy you that job, I spent ages trying to sort my points issue the other day, still not perfect but a lot better than it was.

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 29, 2020, 03:38:16 PM
Thanks Derek, I have come up with a similar idea to yours with my control box. I have made something and I have left the glue drying while after tea. I think it is better than using two screws, I have decided to mount the control panel on the right baseboard support legs, it is a little low but will be fine when sitting on a small stool I have when operating the railway. I will post a pic later when finished.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 29, 2020, 04:38:03 PM
Well I managed to be successfull  with something, here is my panel box fitted to the layout. the second pic shows how I fitted it, similar to Dereks @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) 's french cleat.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-290420163353.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-290420163507.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on April 29, 2020, 08:45:06 PM
Well I managed to be successfull  with something, here is my panel box fitted to the layout. the second pic shows how I fitted it, similar to Dereks @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) 's french cleat.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-290420163353.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-290420163507.jpeg)
Hi Chris,

Excellent job - looks perfect and easier than cutting mitres :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 29, 2020, 10:40:27 PM
Well I have done some more testing tonight, i made room with a bit of tidying up so I could get to the left side track joins. Two out of the four are ok, the other two seem to have a large gap which causes problems with the tender drive on the 3f. I have realised what went wrong with these track joins, they were not level when I laid them. There is a small gradient on the fiddle yard side and I had mad a error with it, it was slightly high and I altered it which has made the gap bigger. I have quite good access to the left side so I should be able to fit in another piece of track tomorrow to close the gap. It is important I have a gap between the scenic board and the fiddle yard board because they are on different power district.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on April 29, 2020, 11:20:56 PM
 :hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
   I admire your tenacity Chris, the Power box is looking good & hope all track is sorted soon.
      stay safe regards Derek.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 30, 2020, 10:15:48 AM
Thanks Derek for the comments.  Well some good news this morning, my goods have been dispatched from DCC Concepts. Richard advised me that RM are holding parcels for two days so I expect delivery will be mid next week. I have bought the Alpha Box which is more powerful than the sniffer unit, it will easily power both my Alpha Central and my Alpha encoder unit. I found out my switches will not work with the encoder unit without modification, the encoder needs 3 wires for input from the switch. My switches only have two in and two out, Richard advised me that by taking off the small pcb I could use those switches but then the ledís would not work. He kindly gave me a pkt of switches I can use with my panel. So I have bought a Mimic panel set so I can have ledís on my panel, I can fit the unit next to the encoder in the control box. I can only praise the service from Richard and the guys at DCC Concepts during these difficult times. I am determined to get my railway running and good advice is essential.
This afternoon I plan to do more work on the track joins and do whatever is required for smooth running.
Keep Safe everybody.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 30, 2020, 06:13:49 PM
Well I managed to be successfull  with something, here is my panel box fitted to the layout. the second pic shows how I fitted it, similar to Dereks @degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) 's french cleat.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-290420163353.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/1784-290420163507.jpeg)

That is very neat, I like it!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on April 30, 2020, 08:13:08 PM
Some sucess tonight with the two rail joints on the left scenic board to the fiddle yard. I managed to fettle the joints with a combination of lifting a piece of wood supporting the two tracks,re-gluing the wood and re soldering the two track joints without having to use new track. I have run my 3f over in both directions with no problems, of course I need more extensive testing yet with different locos and coaches etc. Next the right side joints........watch this space. Something to note I need to place the layout so I can get access to the fiddle yard, at the moment it is nigh on impossible to get too, lucky the layout is on wheels then.
Keep Safe everybody.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 01, 2020, 09:26:30 PM
Well today has been shopping day, I used to enjoy shopping but not with all the queueing you have to do nowadays. I have not done much on the layout tonight, I had one or two other jobs to do, one was railway related. My Train Tech tester was only working intermittently so I decided to fix it proper. It was taped to a piece of track with two wires soldered to the track, I decided to use one of my low powered soldering irons and solder direct to the tester which I have managed to do with no problems.
For some reason I could not get to sleep last night, anyway I have decided on what I am doing with the scenics on the rh side high level, I am inspired by watching this video,

 it kind of gives me ideas on what I want for the rightand side of the layout around the station area. Love the music too........
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 01, 2020, 09:39:05 PM
Excellent piece of blues and great artwork, too.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 01, 2020, 09:46:04 PM
Lovely inspiring video super music. And creating terraced housing which will suit your layout chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 01, 2020, 11:32:07 PM
Now I understand why you are so interested in the mill on Hillsden, keep up the good work Chris

Keep Safe and Well

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Bealman on May 01, 2020, 11:44:32 PM
If you get your layout looking like the video, then it'll be great.  :thumbsup:

But I'll insist that any videos you post of it be accompanied by the same soundtrack!  ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 02, 2020, 12:02:34 AM
Thanks everyone, yes the artwork in the video is superb of the mills and houses etc.  I have been watching this video for ages, I have it on a playlist, lucky they have not deleted it yet, they are always ruining my playlists blocking videos. Yes seeing your mill's on your layout @Nbodger (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8543) is what reminded me about this video. Not sure if I will be able to do it justice on my railway and of course it will be in colour, but that is something like what I want on the right side of the layout. Then the train will go out into the country crossing the viaduct etc, the viaduct being a focal piece of this layout at the front, the train then dissapearing into another tunnel. @Bealman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255)  I am not sure if I am upto adding the music to a video and what it would entail, if I can I will. That is something I need to think about video editing, I have tried a few free programs but not had much success with them. I am better at building computers than using software, you would not believe how much software programs I have bought and hardly used, Anyrail 6 for  starters.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Bealman on May 02, 2020, 01:11:27 AM
I spent most of 1972 living inside that video, by the way. That's me at middle rear top photo, middle of bottom photo  :uneasy:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/255-020520010756-92200279.jpeg)

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 02, 2020, 01:33:31 AM
And you have shown the family those photos george ? Or remember your mates ? I would be more interested in the terraced housing
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 02, 2020, 07:40:01 AM
It all reminds me of when I was sent to Bolton to help out because of a shortge of engineers there (nearly fifty years ago).  As I drove along the main roads, there was a cobbled side street every few yards, lined with terraced houses and with a mill at the far end of the road.  I expect it's all changed now, though.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on May 02, 2020, 07:42:58 AM
Super video and great blues music Chris.
And.....your hair in 72 was about the same length as mine. I donít know now how I used to put up with it.
If you can recreate the feel of those terraced houses on your layout youíll have done a marvellous job.
Keep up the good work.

Martin
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 02, 2020, 10:18:33 AM
@lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784)
Chris - it might pay you to have a look at the late Paul Price's 'Foster Street' layout as it was based on an industrial town in the NW

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=26431.msg531018#msg531018 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=26431.msg531018#msg531018)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Bealman on May 02, 2020, 11:16:28 AM
Good idea. That was a good layout, that. I used to love the elephant train.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 02, 2020, 03:45:27 PM
Hi there I should point out Martin @port perran (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=230) the pic is not of me thatís @Bealman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255) ís pic although I did have long hair circa 1967. I had my motorbikes but wanted to learn to drive a car, my dad said get your hair cut and he would teach me in his car, short back and sides later......kept the bike though in fact bought my Bonneville in 1968 and had a mini has well.

Good news my DCC Concepts parcel has arrived I can now get my control panel working.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on May 02, 2020, 04:18:12 PM
Apologies Chris.
I must pay more attention !  :dunce:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 02, 2020, 08:26:46 PM
Well I made a start with fixing my control panel. First I needed to fit the panel in the front valance of the layout board above where the control panel sits. The two Alpha units need to plug into this then I connect that to the Alpha box which will be under the layout at the back. Trouble was I must be getting clumsy in my old age, I marked out the cutaway for the panel but knicked myself on my thumb with a chisel in the process, just has well the chisel needs sharpening or I could have done myself a bad injury. Also the wood has split on the inside, you cant see it but I decided to repair it anyway so I have glued and clamped it. I need to make a better connector for the accessory bus wires,I had two twisted together into a choc block connecting to the bus, awkward to mess with when lay on your back under the layout so I am going to replace the choc block with two 3-way wago connectors a lot easier.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on May 02, 2020, 08:56:51 PM
I wonder what percentage of members can say that they have nicked themselves with a sharp object? Pretty high I would think - and yes, I have done it- more than once!  :). Glad it was not too serious Chris.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 02, 2020, 10:01:43 PM
Thanks David @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) , yes just a graze. I have now made a small shelf on the right fiddle yard support to put the Alpha box on Lucky I had some more of the bus cable. I have made a extension cable to the shelf, the sniffer was fitted on the hinged board, but this Alpha box is a bit bigger, hence the shelf. The panel is now fitted in the front valance, the f/panel is now connected to the Alpha central and the encoder inside the box.The next job is to fit the new switches to the right side of the panel and wire those up to the encoder that will involve soldering 3 wires to each of the switches then it is straight forward to connect to the encoder.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/1784-020520215924.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 03, 2020, 12:10:00 AM
Well tonight I decided to buy myself another loco, I was very tempted by a sound fitted Castle set but resisted and bought something considerly cheaper and more likley to be seen on my layout another Jinty, the LMS one this time though. Now I have one of those L shaped chips knocking about in one of my boxes, but my other Jinty run rubbish with it fitted. So I have ordered a Zimo 617N from Coastal, that may fit without to much modification. I have a feeling that some of our loco's may be hard to get for some time with this present crisis and we all know where they are made, there may be a future crisis.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrism on May 03, 2020, 06:42:26 AM
Well tonight I decided to buy myself another loco, I was very tempted by a sound fitted Castle set but resisted and bought something considerly cheaper and more likley to be seen on my layout another Jinty, the LMS one this time though. Now I have one of those L shaped chips knocking about in one of my boxes, but my other Jinty run rubbish with it fitted. So I have ordered a Zimo 617N from Coastal, that may fit without to much modification. I have a feeling that some of our loco's may be hard to get for some time with this present crisis and we all know where they are made, there may be a future crisis.

Dunno about the new-fangled stuff, but the Jinty out of the box is a lovely little runner on "direct coal".
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 03, 2020, 10:24:45 AM
Thanks @chrism (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7182) my Jinty I bought a few years ago was a terrible runner on dcc with the ďLĒ shaped chip fitted in the end I hardwired it, forgot what chip is fitted now might be a lenz. So we will see what this one runs like maybe I will have more luck this time.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 03, 2020, 12:10:15 PM
Sorry to hear of your injury, Chris. I'm not allowed near sharps nowadays and, in fact, have to use plastic cutlery :-[
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 03, 2020, 04:04:11 PM
Hi Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) I have done some more woodwork this afternoon, I needed a panel to plug my controller into. I noticed when testing the other day my controller was struggling when I tried to reach the left side fiddle yard. So one fitted, this time I got a splinter in a finger doing the wood work. It can be pesky stuff that wood but I enjoy working with it. The front of my layout is beginning to like a proper front panel layout now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 03, 2020, 08:34:56 PM
I only have to scratch my head and...................... :ouch: :-[
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 03, 2020, 08:44:44 PM
Me too. Sure mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) is of the same opinion once electrickery is done with  , please can we see trains running chris ? Many thanks
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 03, 2020, 09:11:25 PM
Yes once the f/panel is wired I need to fix the right track joins, spending a bit of time with swmbo  tonight watching tv. I want to run trains all the way round, check those gradients.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 03, 2020, 09:23:29 PM
Me too. Sure mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) is of the same opinion once electrickery is done with  , please can we see trains running chris ? Many thanks

Me too, I want to see trains running, but I am awaiting those mills and terrace houses  ;)

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 04, 2020, 09:42:48 PM
Sorry guys but more soldering tonight, soldering the switches for the panel. I have text messages telling me my loco and decoder's has been dispatched to me from Modelrailways direct, Coastal and Digitrains.I have 2 chips coming because at first the only Zimo chip I could find was the MX617N later I found a MX616 which is a dearer chip at Digitrains,Coastal is now showing those in stock. I will fit the smallest one to the Jinty, and the other I might fit into my class 47 which I think has a Bachmann chip in it, so not wasted.
I need to fix the track tomorrow so I can at least run my new loco and everything else.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on May 05, 2020, 03:09:49 AM
It all reminds me of when I was sent to Bolton to help out because of a shortge of engineers there (nearly fifty years ago).  As I drove along the main roads, there was a cobbled side street every few yards, lined with terraced houses and with a mill at the far end of the road.  I expect it's all changed now, though.

Last time I looked the mills had gone, still plenty of terraced houses though.

And were you Ďsent to Boltoní because you couldnít be Ďsent to Coventryí, seeing as you were already there  :doh: ???

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 05, 2020, 06:36:45 AM
And were you Ďsent to Boltoní because you couldnít be Ďsent to Coventryí, seeing as you were already there  :doh: ???J
Actually, by then, I had left Coventry and was living in Moreton-in-Marsh (which probably sounds slightly familiar).
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 05, 2020, 07:52:50 PM
Well today the switches are fitted to control panel and wired up, and also a new UTP panel fitted in the front rh side to match the left side one. Now to getting on with trying to fix the track joins.
On another subject, my two sons say I am mad but I let my good wife cut my hair tonight, easy job with cutters on No 4, quite happy with the result.

Here is a pic of the front of the layout showing the setup, control panels and reset panels and UTP panels for the controllers.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/1784-050520194824.jpeg)

PS: my decoder from Coastal has come first, just need the loco toput it in.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 05, 2020, 08:55:47 PM
I like the look of that viaduct, is that a kit?

Regarding cutting hair I got some brownie points on Sunday cutting my wifeís hair, she was quite pleased with the outcome, decided if I cut it every week then could save a fortune, more to spend on the railway

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 05, 2020, 09:24:30 PM

On another subject, my two sons say I am mad but I let my good wife cut my hair tonight, easy job with cutters on No 4, quite happy with the result.


Pah! @Lawrence (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=16) recently did his on #2 but I reckon his wife is filing for divorce now as she's not impressed ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 05, 2020, 10:10:22 PM
Thanks Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) I offered to do the wifes but thank god she said no. More work tonight, I had to move a lot of stuff and then managed to move the layout left enough so I could get along side and get access to the track joins. All four needed work on them, no idea what happened to them they were all laid with the track across the joins before being soldered to the screws. I have fixed 3 out of the four and I can tell you it took some doing, one of them I had to move the screws. I have not done the fourth joint yet, I can not believe how bad it is, here is a pic, you will see what I mean.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/1784-050520215623.jpeg)

I will do that tomorrow, I have a piece of new track if needed but up to now I have managed just with tweaking.
Hi Mike, @Nbodger (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8543) yes the viaduct was a Metcalfe 00 gauge kit for single line, at the time of buying they did not do a N-gauge kit. It has been on 3 of my layouts, on the first one I managed to give it a slight curve, I have straightened it out for this layout.I like it that much I decided to give it a front row position on this layout. On my last layout it had a mill behind it, painted on the backscene from a local history book.
Had enough for tonight now, my poor old knees are aching, I need to do some more tidying upin the room so I can pull the layout forwards to gain access to the fiddle yard. More track cleaning after fixing the last track join and then give the layout a test run with some stock.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 05, 2020, 10:20:30 PM
Thanks Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) I offered to do the wifes but thank god she said no.

 :laughabovepost: reminded me of this one........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH7Ze1t7b04 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH7Ze1t7b04)

Hope you can get those curves sorted, Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Bealman on May 05, 2020, 10:29:52 PM
Does it work ok? That's the important thing, not what it looks like  :beers:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 06, 2020, 12:33:31 AM
Thanks everyone, well @Bealman (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=255) that last joint definately did not work, derailment everytime with the um 3f. It will be sorted tomorrow and then clean the track, I think the UM 3f needs its wheels cleaning too, I might try my 80119 a loco with a bogie that should be a good loco for the test.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 06, 2020, 08:18:27 AM
In my earlier days in the world of vocational training, we had a hairdressing class on site and so I had my hair cut every week by someone under instruction.  After a few years, you get to know quite a lot about it.  When Celia and I got together as an impecunious couple, I used to cut her hair and she, under my instruction, cut mine.  I'm not sure I would want to go back to those days, happy as they were in a lot of respects.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 06, 2020, 10:26:51 AM
All four needed work on them, no idea what happened to them they were all laid with the track across the joins before being soldered to the screws. I have fixed 3 out of the four and I can tell you it took some doing, one of them I had to move the screws. I have not done the fourth joint yet, I can not believe how bad it is, here is a pic, you will see what I mean.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/1784-050520215623.jpeg)

I will do that tomorrow, I have a piece of new track if needed but up to now I have managed just with tweaking.


Hi Chris

Just been looking at your track photo, I understand that theses were existing joints and I presume it is the track at the front that is giving the most problems.
May I suggest that you replace with a new length of track, laid across the joint, check that it runs ok, remove sleepers whilst track in position and mark out new screw positions , these should be close to the board edge, place new screws whilst track in position, these last two operations will require slight movement of the track, again check alignment and that trains will run, solder track to screws, then finally cut track, preferably with a slitting disc.

Sorry not trying to teach you to suck eggs but just stating how I would have done this.

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 06, 2020, 03:45:15 PM
Thanks Mike, that is how I did it originally, must admit those screws look a little but too far from the edge. I seem to remember struggling with that piece of track, I got the calculation wrong for the curve. This layout is a modular layout made up of four boards, with 3 lots of double track joins on the scenic section plus all the track joins on the two fiddle yard boards. My old layout was modular too, but I had to climb under to get in the centre, and then there was the roof beam, I kept banging my head on it.
Re this join I might end up either with new track or at least move the screws a touch for better alignment.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 06, 2020, 04:06:24 PM
Thanks Mike, that is how I did it originally, must admit those screws look a little but too far from the edge. I seem to remember struggling with that piece of track, I got the calculation wrong for the curve. This layout is a modular layout made up of four boards, with 3 lots of double track joins on the scenic section plus all the track joins on the two fiddle yard boards. My old layout was modular too, but I had to climb under to get in the centre, and then there was the roof beam, I kept banging my head on it.
Re this join I might end up either with new track or at least move the screws a touch for better alignment.

Chris,

Just had a thought (I know thatís dangerous)
What about using copper clad paxolin in lieu of screws, you could have a wide strip say 20mm or so and solder the track the full 20mm, this should help keep the track in place on that bend. But donít forget to saw through the copper between the two rails else you will get a short. This solution would probably give you long term stability of the curve

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 06, 2020, 07:02:23 PM
Thanks again Mike, I prefer the screws, the advantage is you can adjust the height. Some of my boards do not seem to match ie level to level, so adjustment is possible. Plus I still have spare screws and no copper clad.
Good news my new Jinty has arrived from Modelrailways direct, and a Zimo MX616N decoder from Digitrains, thanks to both for excellent delivery. Wow that decoder is so small I am pretty sure it will fit straight in the loco. I forgot too when I put 3 lots of double track it is actually 12 lots of track joins, so has you can see I have done a few.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 07, 2020, 12:06:08 AM
Well I have managed to fix the track rail joint, I ended up repositioning the screws but I have consistent running over it now. Problem is I have a piece of dead track in the middle of the fiddle yard and again it is difficult to get too, I want to avoid pulling all the layout apart after the time spent getting good track joints. My main problem is all the boxes I have which are taking up room, the plan was to store them under the layout, but I need to leave enough room so I can roll the layout forwards for access. I did manage to run the 3f around from the low level and up onto the high level.
I then decided to finish programming the point motors on the control panel, I have had mixed success with that. I connecetd everything up, first just the Alpha central, I programmed one of the digital motors on the station and even reversed its travel direction. I disconnected the Alpha central and connected the Alpha encoder, I then programmed the anolouge motors with the accessory decoders job done. The trouble is the whole lot will not work when they are both plugged in so another call is needed to Dcc Concepts tomorrow after doing the shopping. Fun and games this digital stuff, Keep Safe everybody.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 07, 2020, 08:08:10 PM
Well this morning I rung DCC Concepts and has usual they were very helpfull and advised me the cause of my problem. I need to give the second Alpha a different address, strange thing is I had a light bulb moment last night and wondered if that was my problem. I also ordered another Mimic panel, I decided I will have a few spare led's from the right side control panel so why not buy another mimic board and have some led's on the left fiddle yard diagram. When I get chance I will buy some mdf and make a new panel, right thickness this time, I could then make the panel slightly oversize which will allow for a bigger drawing and allow me room to move the Alpha Central down a touch.

Here is a pic of my latest purchases, new LMS Jinty and chip, MX616N.The chip is so small, pretty sure it will fit straight in without bending the pins.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/1784-070520200053.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 07, 2020, 09:30:42 PM
Well after a few mods to my train tech tester, I soldered the wires on and fixed it to a piece of card. I have tested my tracks in the fiddle yard and found the faulty dropper wires, they need re soldering. Also found one of the sidings is playing up too, so I might has well sort that while I am at it, quite pleased I only have two problems. And all the point motors and switches on the two panels working correctly now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 07, 2020, 10:25:23 PM
Latest update: I fixed the faulty dropper wires, I found what look like damged wires,possibly the soldering iron burn. I cut then them then  I used a couple of Gaugemaster kwikonnect's to join them, still no good after testing so next suspect a dry joint on the rails, I re-soldered the droppers to the track and that fixed it. The siding track droppers where worse, they turned out to be dry joints on the tag strip under the layout and needed re-soldering which under a board is difficult but I managed it. While I was at the back of the layout I cleaned the track so I am hoping now for a testing session. I had a slight problem with the right front support when moving the layout forwards, with it only being a small narrow unit. I stabilised it by fitting a bar ( off a wallpaper table ) across at a angle.I need to position the storage boxes now  to make it easier to move the layout backwards and forwards., but I am getting there at last.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 07, 2020, 10:49:06 PM
Chris

Fingers crossed, all will be running tomorrow night, look forward to your update.

Dry solder joints can be a nightmare, I have a intermittent fault in my control panel with the points, I loose power occasionally to all points, which means a problem on the common return to the points, I can reset by operating a specific point change button, so looks like a problem in the first and second point in the chain, havenít found it yet, but as I am going to build a slave panel for shunting I will be in the main panel a lot so will sort at that time

Stay Safe and Keep Well

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 07, 2020, 11:05:39 PM
Thanks Mike, yes I am looking forward to proper testing at last tomorrow. Hopefully stuff should run all the way round the two levels, my only worry is the gradients, what if they are too steep and  a reasnoable length train won't run. Me of little faith, I will soon find out now, now where is that Deltic.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 08, 2020, 08:18:12 PM
I managed to send the Loco all the way round the circuit tonight but still a few track problems. I had made another adjustment to the Main upline track join unfortunately it still needed adjusting some more. Now I have the point motors working I tried to send the loco through the station on the fast line and the curved point there proved to be another problem, the alignment leaved something to be desired. Luckily with gluing with copydex it was easy enough to move the point and track slightly and then re glue in position, weights on while the glue drys. The good thing was once the loco was past the station it went round and up the gradient onto the high level, the test will be with a train with a few coaches,again now where is that Deltic!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on May 08, 2020, 08:44:06 PM
You're getting there Chris.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on May 08, 2020, 08:45:02 PM
Videos of trains soon?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 08, 2020, 09:48:17 PM
Update:.I am having trouble now with the curved point into the station area, this is the same area I had problems with on the old layout with a curved point. This is a brand new curved point plus I hardwired it, everytime the 3f goes over it it shorts in both direction and orientation of the loco. I checked if I had wired the motor the wrong way for polarity but it is correct. I have just done some more track tweaking in the station area so the glue is drying now, tomorrow I will try a few different loco's. Maybe its just the 3f, I am sure I checked back to backs on it last time because it was the same on the last curved point but was ok on curved points on my old fiddle yard. When I can run some trains without them stopping all the time even though I have cleaned the track I will make a video.....now where is that Deltic.... the best runner I have ever had.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 08, 2020, 10:07:36 PM
Update:.I am having trouble now with the curved point into the station area, this is the same area I had problems with on the old layout with a curved point. This is a brand new curved point plus I hardwired it, everytime the 3f goes over it it shorts in both direction and orientation of the loco. I checked if I had wired the motor the wrong way for polarity but it is correct. I have just done some more track tweaking in the station area so the glue is drying now, tomorrow I will try a few different loco's. Maybe its just the 3f, I am sure I checked back to backs on it last time because it was the same on the last curved point but was ok on curved points on my old fiddle yard. When I can run some trains without them stopping all the time even though I have cleaned the track I will make a video.....now where is that Deltic.... the best runner I have ever had.

Chris,

Just a thought, you say you have checked the wiring, but is the point throwing right across to set the polarity, have you checked the polarity on the actual rails to check this.

Is this a medium or large radius point, does the 3F have some play, hence sliding and shorting, some small locoís used to do this on medium radius points.

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 08, 2020, 10:17:59 PM
Thanks Mike, it is a rh curved point which is effectively a long radius point. I did swap the two wires over for the polarity switch but then the frog was set the wrong way. It is strange too because it is doing it on the straight on route not the right exit. The polarity is correct with my little track tester which has two wires attached, you can easily check the switch rail's and the frog. The frog polarity is set by one of the switches  on  the Cobalt IP, the motor is controlled from the accessory bus not the track bus. I will try a different loco tomorrow and see what happens.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on May 08, 2020, 10:20:20 PM
You're getting there Chris.  :thumbsup:

Sorry Chris - should have kept my thoughts to myself!   ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 09, 2020, 08:46:41 PM
Well I have got there a complete run with the Deltic and 3 custard and creams, I found one fault where when I had repositioned the track a rail had come out of the track joiner, easily fixed and track glued and pinned. The second run clockwise I found I still have a fault on the high level, sometimes the centre coach de railed.Feeling the track with my fingers one railfeels a bit low the gap is a bit too big but there is not a lot more I can do to that, so more tweaking required. Notice it went over both curved points with no problem, they are both hard wired,ie stock railslinked to the switch rail.


and the 2nd video Clockwise.....

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 09, 2020, 08:48:56 PM
That could easily pass as the Merseyside express chris diverted
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 09, 2020, 08:52:41 PM
Great to see trains stretching their legs on a good length run, Chris, especially with the 'clicketty-clack' of the wheels. You must be hugely encouraged with that.
(First vid not available as needs your permission it says to me)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 09, 2020, 09:01:54 PM
Sorry Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) it should work now I forgot to make it public. Yes obviously more testing required but that Deltic is the best. Chris @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) It is indeed the Merseyside Express with a added coach, the box has room for 3 coaches but you only get two.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 09, 2020, 09:05:40 PM
Love deltics
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 09, 2020, 09:06:07 PM
Chris,

Great to see a train run, even though there was minor gremlins, which we all have from time to time
Was it the 3F at fault yesterday or did you rectify the curved point issue?

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 09, 2020, 09:14:38 PM
Thanks Mike @Nbodger (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8543) I think the 3f must be at fault as you can see the Deltic has no problem, I have just run it down the station loop too with only a slight hiccup,I forgot to remove a screw that was holding track in position while the glue dried. Here is another short video of my new 3f jinty running in on my dc test track with one of my furry friends.She is called bubbles and is about 15 years old, still playfull. She belonged to a freind who died a couple of years ago he had 12 cats, the RSPCA would have put her down because of her age and she has some sort of abcess on her neck, it does not cause her any trouble so we have left it, the vet is aware.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob9OJ_L0Jv4&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob9OJ_L0Jv4&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 09, 2020, 09:25:51 PM
As a little aside...........

(https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/49875492276_e909e4b858_t.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2iZjWdC)DP1 on Kimbolted (https://flic.kr/p/2iZjWdC) by Mick Hollyoake (https://www.flickr.com/photos/182878845@N04/), on Flickr

Lovely cat, Chris!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on May 09, 2020, 09:36:05 PM
Hmm, my Deltic hasn't been out of it's box since we moved house.  I wonder what I'll be doing tomorrow? :drool:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 09, 2020, 09:42:18 PM
Nice video Mick, I should think so Steve get it running, I think it is my best runner. I saw one at a show and I had to have one, Jim at the Loco shed in Whitefield duly obliged and got one for me, I have never regretted buying it.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 10, 2020, 06:44:10 AM
That's the Deltic as I remember it, rushing through Rugby on the by-pass lines.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 10, 2020, 09:41:27 PM
I am on a roll, fitted the Zimo MX616N in the Jinty tonight. It was fraught with danger I had to bend the pins to fit and a piece of capston tape on the top for good measure. I then glued in some crew to finish the job. The only problem with the loco I noticed one of the screws is missing, now I do not know if that has fellout while I was running it in but either way it is lost. I programmed the loco on my programme track, checking that it run's ok before fitting the body back on and then checking again,all ok. So here she is running with three coaches round my layout gradients and all what a good sign. I still have a few small track issues I need to sort out, on the lower level where the track has a gradient from where it dips under the high level and then goes over the Monkey bridge location, the change of gradient sometimes causes coaches to uncouple. Of course I could use some tacky wax on the coupling, when I find it, but a little track tweaking should sort it.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 11, 2020, 12:19:19 PM
Well today has started out good, I went to B&Q and bought some MDF, there was a queue but it was well organised. I plan to make a slightly bigger control panel, I can have the board overlap at the bottom which will allow the Alpha central to be mounted a bit lower making room for a bigger fiddle yard diagram. I ordered another mimic panel set from DCC Concepts on Thursday and I topped up my solder and flux while I was ordering, the parcel has arrived this morning excellent service. So with the new panel the plan is to have route indicators on the fiddle yard diagram has well as on the station plan, hence the need for a bigger diagram.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 11, 2020, 06:15:32 PM
Update: I have made the new panel this afternoon and done some tidying around the loft. I need to re print the diagrams and then laminate them, then mark the positions of the switches and ledís. The ledís in the mimic set are larger than the small ledís I used on the other panel that is why I decided to make a new panel if I could get some mdf, plus the other panel was too thick.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 11, 2020, 11:50:58 PM
Well tonight I have spent a lot of time trying to modify my diagrams of the fiddle yard, I ended up re doing it completely. I can not quite get it to the size I want with the software I am using but I think I have manage it. I have made the new panel bigger but I have to watch where the diagram will be the switches and led's etc have to fit within the boundry of the box itself even though the panel overlaps the box. The main reason for the overlap is to allow the Alpha central to be mounted a bit lower so I can have a deeper Fiddle Yard diagram. I have managed to do that with deeper spacing to make room for the led's to fit to show the routes. The same with the right diagram I have spaced the tracks out a bit more to allow for led's. These led's need a 6.5 mm hole, the old ones were only about 3mm. I have fitted the panel too the box, the panel is made from 6mm mdf. The only problem is the screws are a bit long so I have glued the hinges has well as using the screws, the only other option would have been to use machine screws on the hinges. you would definately have seen the heads of those though. Getting there though, I will get the laminating done tomorrow, then cut the holes etc, then I can paint the panel. I want to get this done has soon as possible, some track tweaking then I can make a start on the scenics, tunnels first then sort the bridges.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 12, 2020, 12:25:36 AM
Well tonight I have spent a lot of time trying to modify my diagrams of the fiddle yard, I ended up re doing it completely. I can not quite get it to the size I want with the software I am using but I think I have manage it. I have made the new panel bigger but I have to watch where the diagram will be the switches and led's etc have to fit within the boundry of the box itself even though the box overlaps. The main reason for the overlap is to allow the Alpha central to be mounted a bit lower so I can have a deeper Fiddle Yard diagram. I have managed to do that with deeper spacing to make room for the led's to fit to show the routes. The same with the right diagram I have spaced the tracks out a bit more to allow for led's. These led's need a 6.5 mm hole, the old ones were only about 3mm. I have fitted the panel too the box, the panel is made from 6mm mdf. The only problem is the screws are a bit long so I have glued the hinges has well as using the screws, the only other option would have been to use machine screws on the hinges. you would definately have seen the heads of those though. Getting there though, I will get the laminating done tomorrow, then cut the holes etc, then I can paint the panel. I want to get this done has soon as possible, some track tweaking then I can make a start on the scenics, tunnels first then sort the bridges.

Wait until I start my additional slave panel, I will show you how itís done ???
No fancy software, just pencil and paper, oh plus a large eraser.

Burnt fingers when soldering, always pick it up by the tip (ouch), just follow my posts when I get started  :no:

Only joking keep up the good work, that new electronics is over my head it wasn't around when I started.  ???

Stay safe and well

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: chrism on May 12, 2020, 06:32:37 AM
Burnt fingers when soldering, always pick it up by the tip (ouch), just follow my posts when I get started  :no:

There's worse than that - when needing to hold a piece in place with one hand and needing the other for holding the iron, holding a length of solder in your mouth to apply it. It works, however  when a mate tried that he accidentally picked up a length of tinned copper wire instead of the solder  :doh:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Milton Rail on May 12, 2020, 08:21:16 AM
You are making great progress Chris, great perseverence with the electrics and that Deltic looks great on those nice long runs.  Nice Clickety Clack too  :thumbsup:

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 12, 2020, 09:57:07 AM
There's worse than that - when needing to hold a piece in place with one hand and needing the other for holding the iron, holding a length of solder in your mouth to apply it. It works, however  when a mate tried that he accidentally picked up a length of tinned copper wire instead of the solder  :doh:
I've been using Multicore solder for the last (almost) sixty years and I find that by pulling out a length of solder and winding it around my index finger, I can manipulate the finger to locate the end of the solder into the correct position while holding the iron in one had and the work in the other.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 12, 2020, 10:48:59 AM
Wow guys these soldering tales are making me cringe, for most of the track soldering I used one of those helping hands. I find the Dcc concepts 145 solder and no clean flux brilliant thatís why I have just bought some more, no connection to Dcc concepts just a happy customer.
Yes Mike my old control panel on my old layout the diagram was made with black lining tape and covered with a sheet of plastic, I forgot I had the laminating machine. I am trying to do this one better, I have even bought a punch for the led holes this time.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 12, 2020, 01:24:52 PM
I was lucky today, I forgot yesterday to purchase a 6.5mm drill, I thought I had one but every size but that. I went to a local hardware shop, I did not realise he had limited opening time but he saw me and served me. So thanks to him I can make some more progress this afternoon with my panel. I have already laminated the diagrams I plan on using, I have a punch for the led holes but I have not got one for the switch holes which are smaller, should have bought one of those.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 12, 2020, 09:44:28 PM
This afternoon I punched out the holes for the diagram with the 7mm punch, I then transfered the holes to the panel and drilled them out and bevelled them and then sanded ready for painting. I also cut out the hole for the Aeu encoder extra display then I gave the panel a coat of wood primer. I am not sure what colour to paint the panel yet, I normally do white but I fancy a change. The wife suggested dark green and I do have a spray can of dark green acrylic. I might have cream or blue or something like that left in the garage so I will see what I can find. My diagrams do not fill the panel and they are white with black lines, the diagram's have a black border.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 12, 2020, 09:56:47 PM
Keep going Chris, you are moving at a fair pace, soon be complete at this pace, puts me to shame

Keep safe and well

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 13, 2020, 04:44:58 PM
More work this morning I have painted the panel now with a Creme  colour found in my garage, looks good. When that is dry I can glue the diagrams on to the panel and then fit the ledís and switches etc.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 13, 2020, 04:51:44 PM
I forgot I have gone mad with the cash, I have ordered a GF Castle Pullman set with sound. I thought it would have gone by now, so I was surprised when I saw it was still in stock. I watched some videos last night on YouTube showing real steamers running last year,. So I decided to buy the model while it was still available, they might not be available again for a while.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 13, 2020, 07:44:52 PM
Damm a bit annoyed, the paint has not dried yet, it is Johnstones one coat Gloss, no idea how old it is. I was hoping to save time by painting it this morning, I will have to leave it overnight now. I will get on with sorting a few track issues then I can run some more trains. I have one problem that needs sorting with the AD2fx units, one of them must have point motor centralising enabled, I need to send a 198 command down the point motor bus to sort it. Another problem I found is one of the motors on the station loop the operating rod is still too long so that needs cutting down.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 13, 2020, 08:59:39 PM
Well three sections of track where I was experiencing un-coupling issues sorted, track re-glued down. I found the cause, stupid me had used replacement sleepers on the track joins. The sleepers I think must be for code 80 which of course is a lot thicker than code 55, this was enough to uncouple some coaches. So that is another job to do make some sleepers out of some spare code 55 track.  I still have the track solder joint to do, I will do that tomorrow. I have had some more track running tonight with 4MT 80119 tank with the coaches and of course the Deltic had another run around for good measure, so good to have something running at last.
One of the things I noticed last night watching the trains on Youtube was the lovely sweeping curves and gradients has the trains came into view. On my layout I was going to cover some of the curves on the left side with a big  hill and two tunnels. I think I will keep has much of the sweeping curves has possible before the tunnels now. And I have a good plan for disguising the two track joins in the centre of the layout, it is a trick I used on East Lancashire lines ie removeable bridge's.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 13, 2020, 11:13:32 PM
Update: I have just give the panel another coat of gloss, I also tweaked a couple of pieces of track next to the centre track join on the low level. For some reason I had not calculated the levels correctly there was a slight high spot, plus I have found one of the soldered joints is loose. Getting there though, can not wait to start  on the scenery, I have some good ideas in my head.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 13, 2020, 11:19:52 PM
can not wait to start  on the scenery, I have some good ideas in my head.

Better on the layout than in your head  ::)

Stay Safe and well

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 13, 2020, 11:25:01 PM
Thanks Mike, I am just hoping I have not made any clangers as on my last layout, where I had track coming out of a tunnel too near the edge of the board. Only trouble with this layout is there is going to be too many tunnels, I managed to avoid one with a road bridge instead on the old layout.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 14, 2020, 04:34:38 PM
Well thanks to Model Railways Direct and Royal Mail I received my parcel this morning ordered less than 24 hours before, what service. So I do not need any more incentive to sort my track out, can not wait to see this running, a bit of reading to do to find out how to run it. Of course the next problem will be I need some more coaches, canít just run it with two coaches.
Keep safe everybody.

Ps the other good news my control panel paint has dried at last.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 14, 2020, 07:52:40 PM
Here is my latest purchase, I know its a GWR thingy but what a nice loco,need to run it in now.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/1784-140520195214.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 14, 2020, 08:10:19 PM
I can't be 100% sure but I do believe they were seen as far north as Crewe, although not with Pullmans
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 14, 2020, 08:19:46 PM
There we go mick : https://www.staffordrailwaycircle.org.uk/steam-around-stafford-and-crewe/ (https://www.staffordrailwaycircle.org.uk/steam-around-stafford-and-crewe/)      , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_4073_Class. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_4073_Class.) Good shot of loco at chester.  And a piece on launceston castle c 1926
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 14, 2020, 08:39:49 PM
Thanks Guys,like I said rule 1 applies anyway.Here is where I am upto with my control panel  version 2. Alot more to do yet but getting there.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/1784-140520203653.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 14, 2020, 08:46:19 PM
Chris,

Control Panel coming on well

You are now putting me to shame with your purchases, I had better get online quick and make a few more purchases.

Stay Safe and well


Mike H 8)


Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on May 14, 2020, 08:56:53 PM
Hi Chris,

The panel is looking really good  :thumbsup:

That Castle Pullman was very nearly the set I bought to get started, but when it was explained how much it is to install sound on all loco's - I backed out and went with The Highlander  :D

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 14, 2020, 09:28:29 PM
Here we are back were I started but with control panel Mk2, fitted and working. I can fit the led's anytime, I want to fix the track issues first.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/1784-140520212704.jpeg)

One mistake I made was I made the panel a little too high on the top left side so I have cut it down with the saw, needs the paint touching up.

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 14, 2020, 09:35:21 PM
Thanks for the comments guys, yes Derek I know what you mean about sound on loco's. I will have to put up with just the one for quite a while I think, I just thought it was time to buy one while I could at a good price,only trouble is I will need some coaches to go with it soon.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 15, 2020, 06:32:34 AM
I can't be 100% sure but I do believe they were seen as far north as Crewe, although not with Pullmans
They certainly ran through Chester to Birkenhead.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on May 15, 2020, 06:00:38 PM
Thanks for the comments guys, yes Derek I know what you mean about sound on loco's. I will have to put up with just the one for quite a while I think, I just thought it was time to buy one while I could at a good price,only trouble is I will need some coaches to go with it soon.

LOL yes I know what you mean about the coaches - my highlander only has 2 and I cannot see any that look like the ones in the set. The highlander extension pack looks more like a DMU coach in there which I don't like. The more I watch peoples layouts grow and see the wonderful steam loco's they are displaying is making me think that I'll need to get a couple just to run on my layout - although my original thoughts were to just run diesels.

Have a load of fun with the new loco Chris - would be nice to see a video with sound on so we can see it and hear it  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek ..
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 15, 2020, 08:27:37 PM
I have just done some more testing (Running trains) and I am still having a few track issues, not all the un-coupling issues have been resolved. I have just found out the first point in the station still has self centering enabled, that is easy to resolve. But I have found out I have a issue in the fiddle yard when I set the yard to track 3, the PSX cuts out, so I need to investigate what is going wrong there, maybe I have missed a insulated joiner or have a wrong polarity track feed, all points have a direct feed at the toe end.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 16, 2020, 07:14:10 PM
Well last night after more testing I was still having problems on the high level where a train comes over the viaduct and crosses the lower track. The carrages kept un coupling, a track join looked a little high with a dummy sleeper under which I removed but the problem persisted. I discovered on checking one of the blocks was creating a high spot on the high level which caused the uncoupling. I could probably have got away with using some Tacky wax on the coupling but I want it right. So I have managed to lossen the block and reposition and glue it to level things out. To be honest I must have made some wrong calculations re-the height of the viaduct but it was all a compromise.The track had to be high enough to cross the low level, then decrease in height for the fiddle yard. So the track losses height from the high level, levels over the viaduct then decreases in height again down to the fiddle yard all making the layout more interesting. I am now waiting for this glue to dry then switch the soldering iron for a few track joints.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 16, 2020, 08:09:22 PM
Update, 3 x track joins soldered, The first two I did in less than a couple of mins the last one on the high level being the hardist to sort. So more testing required next, just need to wait for more glue drying, track and wood. Hoping that this sorts out a few issues, I want to make a start on the scenics soon, placing of the tunnels is where I think I will start. I have just remembered I have forgot about the fiddle yard short......!!!!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 16, 2020, 10:37:35 PM
Well I have just had a pretty successfull testing session. I managed to run trains round in both directions without a problem, the track joins are good now, I even tweaked a couple more that were working but I noticed the loco or coaches glitch as they went over. I still had 80119 uncoupling a few times but tacky wax sorted that out. I have spotted another high spot on the lower level so I will tweak that I think,I want good running all round before ballasting etc. I also found out I could get rid of the problem on the track joint which had a larger gap than I wanted. I put a G clamp across the board joint and closed the board up getting rid of the large gap, so I moved the screws on the side catch and job done. The fault on the fiddle yard has dissapeared, when I switch on the point motor bus I can here a motor somwhere making a noise. I think maybe another IP Digital motor on the fiddle yard still has centering enabled, it is easy to fix once I find which motor it is. I need to be round the back of the layout watching when I switch the motor bus on to find out which one it is, but at least I am getting somewhere at last.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 16, 2020, 11:27:32 PM
Well I have just had a pretty successfull testing session. I managed to run trains round in both directions without a problem, the track joins are good now, I even tweaked a couple more that were working but I noticed the loco or coaches glitch as they went over. I still had 80119 uncoupling a few times but tacky wax sorted that out. I have spotted another high spot on the lower level so I will tweak that I think,I want good running all round before ballasting etc. I also found out I could get rid of the problem on the track joint which had a larger gap than I wanted. I put a G clamp across the board joint and closed the board up getting rid of the large gap, so I moved the screws on the side catch and job done. The fault on the fiddle yard has dissapeared, when I switch on the point motor bus I can here a motor somwhere making a noise. I think maybe another IP Digital motor on the fiddle yard still has centering enabled, it is easy to fix once I find which motor it is. I need to be round the back of the layout watching when I switch the motor bus on to find out which one it is, but at least I am getting somewhere at last.

Chris,

Important to make sure that trains run ok and that all electrics and point motors are sound before starting any ballasting. And donít we all hate ballasting  :(

Stay safe and well

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 17, 2020, 12:23:26 AM
Thanks Mike, I do not mind doing the ballasting since I started using the ballast powder glue, sorry forgot the name. Give up on the old way with dropping diluted glue with a eye dropper, now I did find that frustrating. Of course I will not be ballasting the fiddle yard but it would be good to find out which motor is playing up, one clue is it is on the upline. The upline and down line are on different circuit breakers, and it is something to do with using siding switches 3/4 so it should not be hard to find. If a point motor is centralising on switch on that motor's switch for the frog might not be in the correct position which could cause the short. I have decided to do the track ballasting this time before doing any major scenic work, I need to decide of course where the tunnels will be so not to waste too much ballast, but I am looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 17, 2020, 07:44:52 AM
Thanks Mike, I do not mind doing the ballasting since I started using the ballast powder glue, sorry forgot the name.
If it's Ballast Magic you're using, then I agree, it makes ballasting something of a joy.  The ballast goes down so quickly and, after a quick misting with water, the results are immediately obvious. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 17, 2020, 10:07:55 AM
Thanks Laurence, thatís the stuff like you say makes life a lot easier in my book. I now need to run that Castle loco in and then give it a run, still not got round to it yet.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 17, 2020, 10:17:03 PM
Well tonight a lot of testing, the problems with the fiddle yard have dissapeared. I even set a lamp under the board ready for switch on and nothing, another mystery or gremlins. Regarding the curved point I am having problems with both of them on my station loop, the second one where the loop returns to the mainline is the worst. Now I have linked the switch rails to the stock rail and testing with my tester shows that, the problem on the old layout was with the back of a wheel catching the unused switch rail but that is the same polarity has the rail being used so I can only summise the problem must be just before the frog. here is a short video of the dmu.


I have also done a drawing, sorry about the backwards writing but this is the area were I think there is a problem. I have marked the rails that are bonded electrically.(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/1784-170520220637.jpeg)
The good news is the Deltic, it goes anywhere on the layout pulling 6 coaches easily up the gradients. The 4Mt 80119 is not so bad that pulls 3 coaches easliy up the gradients as does the 2MT 46440. The 4Mt also goes through the station loop. I have no problems with the class 108 DMU going up the gradients just the station loop problem. With the station loop I think I will change the  loop with a smaller point than the current unifrog point. I have checked my spares box and I have several smaller points I could use instead, then I could ease the curve into the second curved point. It as to be to do with the area marked because I was backing the 2MT into the loop and one of the coaches caused a short at exactly the same place. I will re-do the loop first and see if that helps, just wondering if widening the gap between the two rails would help on the point.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 17, 2020, 10:38:26 PM
Just thought I would post this pic of the station loop leading to the second curved point( No12). The curved piece of track before the point is rather sharp, easing that bend might alleviate things a bit.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/1784-170520223531.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 17, 2020, 11:32:49 PM
Just thought I would post this pic of the station loop leading to the second curved point( No12). The curved piece of track before the point is rather sharp, easing that bend might alleviate things a bit.

Chris

I presume you are referring to the short length of track between the two points, if so that does seem to have a sharp kink in it in lieu of a gentle curve for full length. The track appears nearly straight for three quarters of the length then bends, possibly this length is a little short and you have pulled it straight.

I believe the train is getting thrown and shorting on the switch blade, have you tried running it very slow as the throw may be exaggerated when running fast

Do no if this helps

Stay safe and well

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 17, 2020, 11:55:37 PM
Thanks Mike, I did try it a lot slower of course with the same result. Because of course the train would be stopping at the station platform. If you slow the video down in the settings you can see it stops before it gets to the switch rail. I am not happy with the rail between the two points anyway so I will be relaying it with a different point I think. I have a few to choose from including another curved one, that might be taking a risk with the luck I have had with them.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 18, 2020, 06:42:50 AM
It looks to me as though you need to isolate the frog from the switch rails and then connect it up to the Cobalt switch.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 18, 2020, 09:58:06 AM
Thanks Laurence, the frog is connected to a switch on the Cobalt motor, the link between the frog and switch rails has been cut and the switch rails and stock rails are bonded together. Both of the curved points have been wired this way, I was trying to avoid what happened on the old layout.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 18, 2020, 12:56:39 PM
Are you getting a short or is it simply a back-tp-back problem?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 18, 2020, 01:03:34 PM
Definatlely getting a short it trips my psx circuit breaker, on pressing reset the loco starts again.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 18, 2020, 01:05:13 PM
Are you getting a short or is it simply a back-tp-back problem?

I was going to ask exactly the same question.

If I understand correctly the problem is really with the DMU, which is a two axle power bogies, on similar bogies (class 25ís) I have had it short against the switch rails due to excessive movement, although my problem was on a pair of Med rad points.

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 18, 2020, 01:37:33 PM
Thanks Mike, i am not happy with the curved rail before the facing point anyway, I am planning on sorting that tonight. At least i seem to have sorted the track joins, all locos so far have travelled over the joins with no more problems.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 19, 2020, 09:48:05 AM
Well disappointment I was not well last night so not much progress on the station loop, I loosened the track ready for moving and thatís it ended up going to bed early. That is the beauty of using copydex to glue the track down, just slide a thin blade under, itís has easy as that. I have a piece of new track so the plan is to use that for the loop and a shorter point. I was not happy with the station loop anyway so watch this space.
Keep Safe everybody.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on May 19, 2020, 08:55:43 PM
Well disappointment I was not well last night so not much progress on the station loop, I loosened the track ready for moving and thatís it ended up going to bed early. That is the beauty of using copydex to glue the track down, just slide a thin blade under, itís has easy as that. I have a piece of new track so the plan is to use that for the loop and a shorter point. I was not happy with the station loop anyway so watch this space.
Keep Safe everybody.
Hope youíre feeling better quickly Chris.

Take it easy

Cheers Derek  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 19, 2020, 10:22:08 PM
Well the station loop has been relayed without too many problems,I could not find my xuron cutters, which I found. Then later I could not find my wire strippers, and still not found them so back to the old way with a pair of cutters. I used a shorter rh point,I have rewired it and I have refiited the point motor. I have re soldered the feeds to the track, with it being curved I had to do it in situ, I think I have damaged one sleeper, I will have to disguise that somehow. Actually the station loop looks a lot better, I still have one feed to do on the track that leads to the goods yard.That is a short curved piece to which will be difficult to solder again. I never fitted the last point in the goods yard so I might do that at the same time then its all done.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 19, 2020, 10:57:11 PM
I am having second thoughts about the station loop, the piece of track I have re-done leading to the facing curved point on checking is a 9" radius. I was trying to avoid anything less then 12" radius on this layout. Now most of the stock using this loop will be small passenger locos or the class 108 DMU. I will have to do some testing before doing anymore. If it is not satisfactory I will change to plan "B", I will replace the curved point leading into the station with a standard lh point, then I could have a island platform instead, we shall see.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 19, 2020, 11:08:21 PM
I am having second thoughts about the station loop, the piece of track I have re-done leading to the facing curved point on checking is a 9" radius. I was trying to avoid anything less then 12" radius on this layout. Now most of the stock using this loop will be small passenger locos or the class 108 DMU. I will have to do some testing before doing anymore. If it is not satisfactory I will change to plan "B", I will replace the curved point leading into the station with a standard lh point, then I could have a island platform instead, we shall see.

Chris,

Glad to hear you are back in the land of the living and getting stuck in again with the layout.

Word of caution the 108 DMU does not like tight curves, tends to de-rail, similarly Stanier 57í coaches, I had to relay the bends on the entrance to the fiddle yard on Hillsden after purchasing these items. Everything else on the layout up until then had not caused any problems

Take care and keep safe

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 20, 2020, 04:35:08 PM

Word of caution the 108 DMU does not like tight curves, tends to de-rail, similarly Stanier 57í coaches

How tight is tight, Mike? My branch line curves are code 55  brought down to 9" radius using a couple of 9" tracksettas and I have no issues with 101s, 108s and Stanier coaches. There is variation in all stock, of course, as all our models are hand built so in no way am I saying I'm right. I just go by what occurs with my own stock.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 20, 2020, 04:53:46 PM

Word of caution the 108 DMU does not like tight curves, tends to de-rail, similarly Stanier 57í coaches

How tight is tight, Mike? My branch line curves are code 55  brought down to 9" radius using a couple of 9" tracksettas and I have no issues with 101s, 108s and Stanier coaches. There is variation in all stock, of course, as all our models are hand built so in no way am I saying I'm right. I just go by what occurs with my own stock.

I agree it depend on how tight and couldn't tell you now as it has all now been realigned, also all my track is code 80, On viewing Chris's previous photo's it looked as the curved track he was having problems with was laid "straightish" for majority of the length, and then pulled into a tighter curve instead of the bend flowing equally over its full length. The curves in my fiddle yard were similar due to limited space and not wanting to move any trackwork at the time, which I finally had to as it was becoming a problem on new stock.

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 20, 2020, 05:28:23 PM
Yes I am a lot happier with the curved track now it is more constant curve than the previous version. I seem to remember struggling to fit the curve in and fitting the droppers with that piece of track, it was a time when my best soldering iron ie smallest, was not working. The truth will be in more testing tonight, thanks Mick you have given me some hope that all will be ok.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 20, 2020, 07:59:58 PM
Well I have found a major fault tonight, the DMU is still playing up but it is intermittent with I think pickup problems. I tried cleaning the wheels for a start which did not make much difference. I noticed on a couple of occasions it restarted without me pressing reset, soI dropped the hinged board down under the layout so I can see if there is in fact a short. On one or two occasions there was not and the loco moved on its own, but and a big but, on other occasions both the circuit breakers tripped for the down line as well as the up. There is only one place where the two track's meet, in the station crossover, and I originally made the mistake of not putting insulated joiners on the two points because they are unifrog's. But when you have two districts you need insulated joiners on both rails. So the only other way the two tracks can be joined is a pair of droppers connected to the wrong bus/circuit breaker. But at the end of the day the DMU only goes over one of the curved points leading into the station loop, it will happily go through the main line but not the second facing curved point, so I am not sure what to do maybe a station re design after finding the other fault.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 20, 2020, 08:04:39 PM
Track cleaning, check connections, probe for dust ?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 20, 2020, 08:18:19 PM
Hi Chris,

Does it happen in both directions and have you tried the DMU in reverse order?

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 20, 2020, 09:37:05 PM
Hi Guys thanks for the replys. I had the same problem on the fiddle yard, I found a pair of droppers connected to the wrong bus.It is finding them, I will have a crawl under and see if a can spot anything obvious. The first place will be the high level tracks, they come off the two lines and then drop through a hole on the lower board. When I was installing the droppers, on some I drilled two holes for up and down lines, down being the inner track. I have checked the point motors for feeds from the bus too one of the switches used for the frog polarity, that could also cause the same fault. Like I said I will have a crawlunder first,I might end upsplitting the boards again, which I want to avoid if possible I damaged a couple of track joints last time trying to lift the board and I have just got them all working good.
Just had a rethink, first thing I will do is discconnect the two front scenic boards, then try again if the fault goes away I know its on the left board or vice versa.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 20, 2020, 09:50:36 PM
Update:I have just disconnected the left scenic board the fault is on the right board, thats one thing out of the way.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 20, 2020, 09:52:26 PM
Chris. Hope you sort issues. We all would love to see your layout in all its glory
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 20, 2020, 10:13:40 PM
Thanks Chris, I want to see it in all its glory too. I am on the bedroom computer now it was a bit warm in the loft railway room tonight. At least I know where to start looking, not too worried about the Dmu at the moment, I will check the back to backson that before I start changing the track plan.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 21, 2020, 09:43:32 AM
Having a good nights sleep helps the little grey cells, I think I have thought of another way to help make assembling the boards back easier. It just involves adding a small piece of ply wood to the left scenic board to help support the right board while I line up the dowels, it should work. The idea of having a sectional layout was to ease maintainance and enable splitting the layout if needed.

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on May 21, 2020, 11:52:09 AM
 :hellosign:
  Hoping all goes well for you Chris
     stay safe regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 21, 2020, 04:11:48 PM
Thanks Derek I am up for sorting it out tonight, I have just been a nice walk over the moors to clear my head.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 21, 2020, 04:26:05 PM
I have just received this today from Hattons, looking forward to a good read, will post a pic later struggling on this I pad.

Update the pic:(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/93/1784-210520162246.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 21, 2020, 07:54:49 PM
Sorted the Circuit breaker problem, has I thought a pair of high level track droppers wires were connected the wrong way round, ie up to down and down to up. While I was doing it I spotted a loose dropper wire so I have fixed that while I had the soldering iron out. I did not need to split the boards I managed the soldering while under the boards, but I did fit the piece of ply to make life easier in the future if I need to split the boards. I have just tested to make sure and deliberately shorted the tracks and only one circuit breaker trips. In a way the problem with the DMU highlighted the other problem so a bit of good fortune really.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 21, 2020, 08:01:29 PM
Sorted the Circuit breaker problem, has I thought a pair of high level track droppers wires were connected the wrong way round, ie up to down and down to up. While I was doing it I spotted a loose dropper wire so I have fixed that while I had the soldering iron out. I did not need to split the boards I managed the soldering while under the boards, but I did fit the piece of ply to make life easier in the future if I need to split the boards. I have just tested to make sure and deliberately shorted the tracks and only one circuit breaker trips. In a way the problem with the DMU highlighted the other problem so a bit of good fortune really.

Good, very happy you have sorted the problem, have an evening just running trains and enjoy.

Does this still mean you have a problem with the DMU on the curves

Stay Safe

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 21, 2020, 09:25:38 PM
Yes and worse the DMU refuses to run at the moment.I have just tried my brand new Jinty on the loop and it is the same plus one of the coaches causes the short too. The main difference from last night the short is restricted to just the UP line, the Deltic carried on has usual. To be honest I am thinking of a re-design of the station layout, I wanted a island platform so if I do away with the two curved points altogether and replace with two left points, it is a bit of work but if I get better running that is all that matters. I have dug my back to back gauge out of the box but I have no confidence in using it, I do not have any stock where it will fit between the wheels. I think it is a touch too big, I have a seperate post in the Train Surgery section.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 22, 2020, 11:04:07 AM
Well I have made the decision to alter the station plan, I intend to lose the two curved points which are giving me grief. If possible I will have a island platform, I will try to keep to a similar plan so I do not have to change the track diagram.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 22, 2020, 09:13:25 PM
Well I have made a start, the loop track has been pulled up. The Curved point leading into the station has been replaced with a Uni Frog rh point plus a longer piece of track to the crossover, feeds re attached, the point motor now needs moving slightly. Now waiting for glue to dry, I will now see if I can get the loop to run wider so I can have a island platform. I think that would look better in the station anyway. I could still use a un modified Curved point at the bottom of the loop but I do not want to chance it with all the luck I have with them. I think I will avoid using it, fortunately I have a few spare points I can use including a 3 way point. That needs re wiring all the feed wires felloff when I pulled it up on the old layout, still two frog wires fortunately.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on May 23, 2020, 07:58:09 PM
Well I have made a start, the loop track has been pulled up. The Curved point leading into the station has been replaced with a Uni Frog rh point plus a longer piece of track to the crossover, feeds re attached, the point motor now needs moving slightly. Now waiting for glue to dry, I will now see if I can get the loop to run wider so I can have a island platform. I think that would look better in the station anyway. I could still use a un modified Curved point at the bottom of the loop but I do not want to chance it with all the luck I have with them. I think I will avoid using it, fortunately I have a few spare points I can use including a 3 way point. That needs re wiring all the feed wires felloff when I pulled it up on the old layout, still two frog wires fortunately.

Good luck Chris - hope the changes are successful and give you troublefree running  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 23, 2020, 09:56:24 PM
Thanks for the comments Derek, that's the plan, I have the main line connected up now and feeds soldered in position. The motor for the facing point had to be turned round and the feed wires would not reach the toe end of the point so I had to extend them using one of the excellent Gaugemaster kwikonnect connectors. I am at present again waiting for the glue to dry on the mainline track. I am taking my time, I want this section right and good running and nice connections with no kinks in the track. My next task is to see If I can get a nice loop in with a gap wide enough for a island platform, if not I will revert to the original plan but without the curved points.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 23, 2020, 10:17:55 PM
Well more progress, from the point replacing the facing curved point I have a nice second radius curve to the station loop connecting to the point which leads off the loop to the goods yard. The platform will be a interesting curved shape on the loop side, that will be good making a platform for that some fun ahead. The track leading into the station has a nice gentle curve so I should have no running issues, looking forward to finishing this, pics to follow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on May 23, 2020, 10:23:15 PM
The motor for the facing point had to be turned round and the feed wires would not reach the toe end of the point so I had to extend them using one of the excellent Gaugemaster kwikonnect connectors.
Hi Chris,
One of the best things Iíve seen for a while was recommended by @jpendle (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3871) - Wago connectors, these would be perfect for extending wires if you run out of your Gaugemaster variant.

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on May 23, 2020, 10:41:38 PM
@degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) , I think Chris bought an assorted box some time ago on my recommendation.

But the specific ones I use are these

https://www.wago.com/us/lp-221 (https://www.wago.com/us/lp-221)

I find the 2 way and 5 way the most useful.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 23, 2020, 11:15:41 PM
Thanks Derek and John, yes I have a box of Wago connectors has well. I find they work better with thicker gauge wire but I have used both on this layout. I have laid another point on the end of the curve, I drilled the holes for feed and motor and frog and then glued the point in position. I had to re route the point feed wires but fortunately this time they were long enough to reach the new position. I intend to try and finish it tomorrow but it is looking good. I want to finish this and start on the scenery which I enjoy the most. I have a few tunnels planned on this layout, four to be precise and as with all tunnels you need a reason for the tunnel. I have made some mistakes on my previous layouts, ie one tunnel going under another, another tunnel too near the edge of the board for the support walls etc. This layout will be a tale of two halfs, the right side a small station going through a built up area with house's etc, the left half the train will run through open countryside over bridges and viaducts, I am looking forward to this.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on May 23, 2020, 11:24:43 PM
@degsy_safc (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8267) , I think Chris bought an assorted box some time ago on my recommendation.

But the specific ones I use are these

https://www.wago.com/us/lp-221 (https://www.wago.com/us/lp-221)

I find the 2 way and 5 way the most useful.

Regards,

John P

Iíve bought the 3 & 5 way - best thing Iíve seen for ages  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 23, 2020, 11:36:55 PM
I forgot to add I need to finish my control panel, I want to have led's showing the route. I have bought two Mimic sets, the first I bought is red and green led's. The second set is green only and I soon realised I would soon run out of the green ones to show the route so I have ordered a extra pack today. The other thing I need to do is get my Castle run in on my rolling road, then I can give it a run.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 24, 2020, 07:56:56 PM
More progress tonight, the station loop track has been laid,, I had it down once but had to pull it back up when I realised the point was damaged, it looked like a new one too. Fortunately another point was found in my spares box, frog wire attached and now that is down instead. I also have the Castle running on the rolling road having a running in session, I need to read up and find out how to activate the sounds. The next job is wire the feeds for the loop, I am at present waiting for the glue to dry. I have also moved the head shunt for the goods yard, it originally followed the main line. The new thought is to possibly have a level crossing before the overbridge, it will just add a bit more interest.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 24, 2020, 09:29:05 PM
Just finished wiring the new station loop, I am happy with it I cant see any forceable problems with the curves. I am going to fit the second goods yard point while I have the soldering iron out.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/1784-240520212646.jpeg)

Update: I have just fitted the second goods yard point which was a bit more difficult than I thought. One of the leg supports was in the way so I soldered a short piece of track to the point, I have now glued them down. Because of the shortage of room the plan is to fit the feed wires to the piece of track otherwise I will not have room for the motor.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 25, 2020, 07:47:29 AM
Keep plugging away, Chris.  Remember, slow progress is to be preferred to "OMG, I need to tear it all up and start again!" :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 25, 2020, 10:01:52 AM
Thanks Laurence it as taken me three days so not exactly rushed it but pleased with the result. The next thing is have a test run and see how the stock runs, the DMU was playing up last time.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 25, 2020, 09:09:16 PM
Well a test run and not at first good, I needed to do some tweaking. First the point from the fiddle yard( replaced the 1st Curved point), I had left the soldered feed wire a touch high derailing the test loco. 2nd/ problems with point 14 on the loop it was anything but level plus it must have creeped a little so not has aligned as I would prefer. 3rd/ no 12 point ( this point replaces the second curved point) the frog polarity was the wrong way round, easily sorted just swap the wires over. 4th/ the piece of track between point 14 & 12 that was not has aligned so re glued it in position. The main problem was with point 14 being high, the loco was like a rocking horse on the point. I ended up pinning the track before something I wanted to avoid, one pin is in the end of the sleeper so not easy to see. The pin in the middle of the sleeper, I may be able to remove once ballasting has been done.
Anyway I successfully run 7309 LMS Jinty around the loop with 3 coaches so success at last, I am just waiting for the glue to dry now on the curved piece of track.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 25, 2020, 09:40:05 PM
Glad you got there in the end, Chris. Of course, we do require proof in the form of a vid ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 25, 2020, 10:48:56 PM
Thanks Mick, I have just laid the two sidings and fitted a point motor to point 16 in the goods yard.I have also connected the point motor to the AD2fx  ready for programming to the switch. It still needs two feed wires to a switch for the frog, but I have already soldered and wired a feed to a connector which will supply feeds to the two sidings and the point and motor so nearly there. Next I need to supply feeds to the tracks and point that means more soldering tomorrow. The plan is for one of the longer sidings to go to a goods shed, pretty sure I have one somewhere unused. While I am under the layout I need to supply a feed wire from the point motor bus so I can get my mimic lights working on my control panel, a pair of 16/02 will do. I will do a video just to show this troublsome loop working at last.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 26, 2020, 10:25:36 PM
Well more trouble tonight, if its not one thing it's another. I test my Jinty 7309 but it was still having problems in the loop, the other night it was fine, I mistakenly thought I had sorted it. You know what thought said, "followed a muck cart thought it was a wedding". Anyway I did some more track tweaking around the point but I also found that the track join from the fiddle yard one rail was very slightly low but this was enough to upset the loco and make it rock so I sorted that out. I have another problem now, the new goods yard point which I said was a new point I forgot it is a damaged one the switch rail has come loose. Anyway I have give it a touch of superglue so we will see how it fairs, It may have to be replaced, I do have a left point but it is a shorter one and would require altering all the goods yard track again.
Well to prove I have at last sorted this troublsome station loop here is a video to prove it. Plus my Deltic on it's way with a special coach for Cant Cove.

One for you here Chris @Chris in Prague (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2895)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 26, 2020, 10:34:10 PM
Good to see things running well, and hope you can sort the other probs very easily, Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 26, 2020, 10:49:25 PM
Chris

At last something running, we have all been waiting for this. Really pleased that you are getting things sorted, just hope you resolve your other issues quickly.

When you have the issues resolved I suggest you just run all of your stock for a couple of days to just make sure, well at least before you ballast the track.

Good Luck, scenery soon

Stay safe

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 26, 2020, 11:06:17 PM
Thanks Mick  and Mike for the comments, I plan to do more testing asap. I also need to finish my control panel, something annoying me but it has not caused any problems yet but may do when I start to use all the tracks in the fiddle yard. When I switch on my Cobalt Box system for the point motors I can here a motor somewhere, sounds like a motor still has centralising enabled, the trouble is it must be at the other end of the layout and I can not see which one it is. If there is a motor doing that the point should be in the centralised position, so I should be able to tell which one it is. Short of setting all the fiddle yard motor switches to learn and then send a command to turn centralising off. Access to the back of the layout is not good at the moment, I put a board on the back to stop trains dropping off and it is fairly high to protect the high level tracks when the layout is pushed back under the eaves.  I need to sort out my plastic storage boxes and get has many under the layout as possible, then I can just pull the layout out on its wheels as far forward as possible.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 27, 2020, 09:48:32 PM
More testing tonight, first I tried running the Jinty with my minitrx cleaning car, it struggled in places. So I tried again behind the Deltic which had no problems pulling it, but I think the car needs adjusting it got stuck on one or two points. I then tried my class 47 on the up track it run at first but then suddenly stopped and tripped the circuit breaker. I had to remove it from the track to reset the circuit breaker so not sure what has gone wrong there, I will have to try it on my test/programming track. According to my diary it has a bachman decoder in  it, I have a spare Zimmo decoder I can use. I then tried the Deltic on the up track to make sure it was ok, that run round ok on the main line but when it got round on the low level with the point set for the loop it derailed.On investigation I found the motor pin sticking through the tie bar was catching the bogie, easily fixed. The thing is it will not be going through the loop anyway in normal running, but I was testing all possibiltys. Number 16 point is not staying glued so will need replacing, so I need toorder a replacement.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 28, 2020, 12:22:55 PM
Well a new point has been ordered from Jim at the Loco Shed, plus a coach for my Castle to make it worth for him. He will be delivering it too me this afternoon, you donít get much better service than that. So the first job will be replace the point, then fit some more ledís to my control panel, I made a start last night.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 28, 2020, 12:38:55 PM
Well a new point has been ordered from Jim at the Loco Shed. He will be delivering it too me this afternoon, you donít get much better service than that.

Blimey, Chris!
Have you got some compromising pictures of Jim or something? :o
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 28, 2020, 01:43:27 PM
Hi Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) it is simple he is trying to remain in buisness, by law he can not have the shop open yet, so he is doing mail order and delivery to his local customers. Luckily for me he does not live to far away from me, he is working in the shop till 1-30pm so he is dropping it off on his way home.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 28, 2020, 01:50:51 PM
Good service, but I hope you didn't think I was being serious, Chris.
That would require a whole new mindset for me ;D
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 28, 2020, 03:18:56 PM
Mick I did actually....... no only joking I know you too well......lol
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 28, 2020, 09:30:53 PM
Just had these delivered to me today, only ordered this morning.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/1784-280520212442.jpeg)
Just thought I would give my new loco GWR Castle Defiant a run on my new layout, I bought another GWR Hawsworth coach to add onto the two pullman coaches supplied. Sorry about the video, I thought I had stopped filming then started another but it turns out I only didi the one with a lot of the floor included. I have not got a video editing program yet to use, apparantly there is one with Windows 10 but I could not figure how to use it, I need to look up the instructions. There should have been a video showing the loco setting off which is pretty good, I need a longer play with it.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 28, 2020, 09:44:36 PM
Chris enjoyed the floor spotting, no seriously nice to see something running without problems.

Windows 10 editing software, is easy to use but suggest you practice with editing, using split video allows you to separate chunks out.

Stay safe

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 28, 2020, 10:22:02 PM
Thank Mike, I did try to use the widows editing software in split screen too, but I wanted to crash on with replacing the faulty point in the good yard. That has been done now, the replacement point is a unifrog so I should get good running for shunting, I have weights on the track after glueing, feeds resoldered back with no mishaps. It was nice to have another loco run round with no problems I need to try it on the up line next, that reminds me I have a couple of point motor rods to cut down.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 28, 2020, 11:36:47 PM
Update: I have added some more led's to my control panel and I switched on the Alpha mimic panel for the first time. You  have to set the start number sequence first which is easy, I have another one for the swiches on the right side. It is a shame really because the Mimics come in 12's and I will only be using the first 4 ie for points 13/14/15/16, but there is room for expansion if its ever needed. So I have some led's working already, the plan is for green to show the current route. You get 12 led's with the panel and it is supprising how quick you can run out of them once you start drilling holes all over the panel for them, luck I have ordered some extra ones plus multi connectors so I do not have to cut and splice the wires, pics to follow soon.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on May 29, 2020, 11:39:31 AM
Many thanks for the videos, Chris, including of the alleged Minitrix Greeley brake end coach in BR Lined Maroon and your "Castle". You now need a GWR livery brake end coach, Colletts are cheaper than Hawksworths.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 29, 2020, 05:37:05 PM
Thanks Chris pleased you liked the Mintrix coach of yours. Thanks for telling me about Collets I know nothing about Gwr stock. I saw the Hawksworth coach going cheap ( £23.50) and it was chocolate and cream so I bought it along with the point I needed to finish my goods yard. To be honest I thought the coach was a brake end I must have been mistaken because it was the only one he had. I do need to by some more chocolate and cream coaches, the Castle would have definitely had more than 3 coaches even though it was a special train travelling round the country.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on May 29, 2020, 07:04:57 PM
I think the Dapol Collett brake end coaches in GWR livery can still be found for lower prices than the GF Hawksworth ones can, Chris.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on May 29, 2020, 07:10:14 PM
Hampshire Models who I have bought from several times, quite happily have one:

https://www.hampshiremodels.co.uk/collections/dapol-n-gauge-coaches (https://www.hampshiremodels.co.uk/collections/dapol-n-gauge-coaches)

DAPOL 2P-000-283 N GAUGE COLLETT COACH GWR CREST CHOCOLATE/CREAM BRAKE COMP 6527
 £20.99 Regular price£24.50 1 AVAILABLE
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 29, 2020, 09:21:47 PM
Thanks Chris I might buy that.
Here is a update on my control panel. Things have been delayed waiting for some multiconnectors so I can plug multiple green led's into the one connection. I could have cut and spliced the wires but I did not fancy doing that and keeping them standard is better for any future changes. Up to now I have just used the red/green led's, on the right side the station plan I am using the mutli colour ones for all the switches.The plan is to use extra green one's to show the route selected. I have 24 of each at the moment and I have mainly installed the red/green apart from two on the station diagram which are not connecetd yet. I have just enough green led's for the diagram has it is at present that is why I have ordered a extra pack with the connectors. There are a few bare spots on the fiddle yard diagram for the sidings, plus it would be good to show which goods yard siding is active.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/1784-290520210832.jpeg)

Be a lot better once it is all lit up.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on May 30, 2020, 06:37:19 AM
Tha's a very tidy looking control panel.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on May 30, 2020, 09:15:35 AM
Looks very professional, Chris. Unlike my 'Blue Peter' effort :-[
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Bealman on May 30, 2020, 09:23:41 AM
Looking forward to seeing it "all lit up"  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 30, 2020, 09:39:59 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments, I am hoping the parcel will arrive today then I can finish it at last.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 30, 2020, 05:31:30 PM
Well a bit of a sickner no parcel has arrived so will have to wait now till Monday and hope it comes then. Will do some more testing tonight but not for too long, a bit warm in the railway room.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 30, 2020, 10:37:06 PM
More testing tonight and I have had some success apart from the Class 47 which is giving me problems ( see seperate thread in train surgery) I have tried a few locos and also run them through the station loop with no problems,even the UM 3f, that needs wheels cleaning I think, some seem a little rough over the goods point on the loop so I need to check the point is flat. A video to digest.

Sorry deleted the first two wrong way round for some unknown reason. I will repost some more later on Sunday.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on May 31, 2020, 10:52:38 AM
Chris,

Glad your track problems are getting resolved, hope you get the class 47 sorted soon. Anymore news on the 108 DMU that was giving you grief before.

Stay safe

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 31, 2020, 09:23:02 PM
More testing tonight this time with my Class 108 DMU. I removed the bogie and cleaned the contacts and wheels and removed some hard grease that was all over the place. I then gave it just a touch of model railway oil. I then tried it on my test track first and it now runs pretty good althought the slow speed running is not brilliant.On checking my diary it has a DZ125 decoder which I put in when I bought it in 2013, those 6 years have passed to quick for my liking. At some time I will get another Zimmo decoder so I get good slow running. I tried the 108 on my layout it passes through the station loop even stops and starts with no problems here is a video, strangly it stopped on the layout on the curves and on checking it the circuit breaker had tripped. I am wondering if I have the circuit breaker set too low, I have it set on 1.29amps.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 31, 2020, 10:13:58 PM
Another test run this time my old GF 4MT 80048 having a well earned test run round the layout, eventually un coupling the coaches, nothing tacky wax will not sort. Also the Class 108 DMU was running too. That has not bad slow running when using the normal increment buttons(stupidly i was using the fast increment buttons)  with the DZ125 decoder, not has fine as the Zimmo but not bad.


On further testing it looks like the Class 47 is drawing extra current so not sure what that means for it, Imight just put back a cheaper decoder for in case it blows.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on May 31, 2020, 10:33:02 PM
The last test run tonight, this is my old GF 3f from my original layout built for my two sons in the 90's. It has been converted to dcc by Digitrains and has a DZ125 decoder hard wired. It still runs ok, there for nostalga, must find my later 4f and see how that runs.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on June 01, 2020, 03:54:17 PM
 :hellosign:
  Definitely getting there Chris 👍
always good to see trains running 👍
   stay safe regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 01, 2020, 04:20:35 PM
Thanks Derek nice to hear you are ok too. Good news my parcel from DCC Concepts has arrived, at least I can now do more work on my control panel.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 02, 2020, 12:36:38 AM
Well tonight I have spent wiring up my control panel with led's and connectors. Things have not been working as I was expecting, I was trying to match my Mimic panel to the Alpha Central with green/red led's. The trouble is I think its a voltage thing and they do not mix, I could not get a line of green led's to light, I swapped the first green/red led for a green one and hey presto they now all light up. To be honest this is probably better than my original idea, having just a line of green led's showing the route selected is a lot simpler and less confusing to look at so I will go with that. I had decided not to splice the wires and wait for the connectors, so its just as well I did, I would have ended up in a right mess.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 02, 2020, 10:47:30 PM
Well a bit more experimenting with the led's tonight on the control panel. Not sure if it is what I wanted,I have ordered some more connectors I will wait while they arrive and see what I can come up with.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 03, 2020, 08:25:20 PM
Well more experimenting with the mimic led's, at first I thought I had some duff led's it turns out the plain green led's donot work with the green/red led's. It is probably a voltage thing but I just wish I had known when ordering the sets, I would just have ordered the green/red and not orderd plain green. It means some compromises have to be made with my diagrams, the two centre tracks I want lit green for straight through running, then the next two or three lines lit similar to show when set up. In some ways it might be less confusing. The station diagram I am well pleased with now I have managed to get the centre station line so it is green when set or red when against and vice versa for the station loop, wellpleased with that.
This morning I bought a couple more items from the Locoshed, and Jim delivered them just after dinner. I am now planning on scenics which is good, so I checked through my model stock boxes. I found out I was short of tunnel mouths so I ordered some Peco ones plus some Ratio stone so I can work on my Monkey bridge, that is what I made the stonework with and it made it worthwhile for Jim to deliver it too me. I have a few used tunnel mouths Peco and Noch and I might be able to utilise at least one of those.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/1784-030620202441.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 03, 2020, 10:23:02 PM
Update: I have spent the rest of the evening cutting sleepers to fit next to points and track joins etc. With using code 55 I have just cut some from pieces of track cutoffs, I found the pre made ones seem to be made for code 80 and caused me problems with track levels. I have fitted these where required and I have then given the track a coat of Sleeper grime. I also put some pieces of paper over the top of the wet track which has given me a template of the station, then I cleaned the top of the rails with some cotton buds.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 04, 2020, 09:04:32 PM
Here is my latest update, I have some of the track ready for ballasting. You can also see where the station platforms will be with two rough templates. I made the templates after painting the track, I just laid the paper on top of the wet paint to give me the outline. The station will only be a small surburban station with some trains passing through.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/1784-040620210135.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 04, 2020, 09:09:14 PM
Hi chris. Impressive plans for the small station but how did you cope with sleeper grime? Good idea with the use of cotton buds to clean rails. Hope this will ensure smooth running. Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on June 04, 2020, 09:12:54 PM
Hi Chris,

Thats a lovely bit of track laying there, looks really interesting, be a lovely point of view for photos when the trains are running round it  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on June 04, 2020, 09:34:32 PM
Chris,

Good to see you have moved on from your track problems and now have the confidence to start ballasting.
Curved platforms are not easy to get right, have you constructed one before? Lots to consider length and width of stock etc.

Stay safe

Mike H 8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 04, 2020, 09:42:31 PM
Thanks for the replies, yes I like the Railmatch Sleeper grime,I have never had a  problem painting my track with it. I put a bit of masking tape of the switch blade moving rails to protect them. I like the Woodland scenics fine brown ballast too I do not think there is a need to paint the side of the track, maybe a couple of dark patches in stopping place's. I decided to have a couple of curved platforms this time for a change, I am not sure how long they will be yet, probably has long as I can getaway with. I have been watching a lot of videos lately of steam on heritage railways and there are a lot of curved platforms and long curves overall under bridges etc, just what I am planning for this layout. One of the main differences is where ther are turnouts there are always nicely curved, where as ours off our Peco points, are more or less straight. It would be nice to get ours like that but still get good running.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 04, 2020, 09:49:05 PM
Thanks Mike,I think I had a go on my first layout. I know the basics using your longest coach etc, to me the gap always looks to big but we will see how it goes. The down line has a fairly longish straight section so that should be easy enough, it is the island platform that might cause me a headache. I am planning on using Metcalfe Cardboard platforms for this, I still have a part used box. I used the Peco edging ones last time they are more difficult to curve, it can be done,you have to cut notches and use hot water etc to bend them.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on June 04, 2020, 10:03:09 PM
If you don't have one either beg, steal or borrow an outside framed Farish class 08 or a Trix 9F ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 04, 2020, 10:06:35 PM
Just thought I would add, some of you may be wondering why I am worrying about the station at this stage of development. The reason is the high level behind the station, the track will come out of a tunnel over a embankment then over a bridge before crossing the viaduct.I need to make sure I have enough room for some sort of station buildings between the track and the high level walling. The original plan was for station buildings on the other side of the tracks with just a single platform not the island I am planning now. I have made basic mistakes like this before not leaving enough room sotrying hard to avoid the same mistake. I have no master plan I just have idea's in my head, I just make it up as I go along, it is not based on a real place this time so I can more or less do what I want.
Thanks Mick I havn't but I think I have something a bit wide might be the 2mt micky mouse.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 04, 2020, 10:11:33 PM
Can you not place the station building chris where the two bottles are placed?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 04, 2020, 10:25:24 PM
Thanks chris @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894), I could at a pinch if my plan does not work out, I am trying to keep the station compact if possible, you will see why eventually.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 04, 2020, 10:35:49 PM
Cool lil chris. Look forward to more
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 05, 2020, 11:40:22 AM
Some good news two out of the three parcels I am waiting for have arrived. I have a new collet brake end coach to go with my Gwr Castle and some more connectors so I can finish my control panel at last. Pics to follow later.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: greenlaneman on June 05, 2020, 11:50:38 AM
For marking out platform edges for clearance purposes, cut a pencil in half longways so that the lead is exposed.
Using your longest coach - I use a MK3 as I have an HST - apply the pencil tight to the middle of the coach for the convex platform edge and at the extreme end of the coach for the concave platform edges. With extreme width locos; such as an 08 or Minitrix 9F; they seem to jam at the platform end ramps where the platform edge 'ramps' down to ground level.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 05, 2020, 12:35:44 PM
Thanks for that I knew about using my longest coach but not the cutting a pencil in half. It makes sense for a more accurate line, not sure how you cut the pencil in half though that will be fun.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 05, 2020, 07:32:07 PM
These are my items I have had delivered today,a/I should be able to finish my control panel, b/ I can run my GWR Castle with four coaches instead of two or three which is a bit better.
More work on the track tonight so I will crash on......
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/1784-050620193131.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on June 05, 2020, 07:42:00 PM
Chris

Did you sneak them in?

 :D

Stay safe

Mike H
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 05, 2020, 09:08:57 PM
Hi Mike no the wife saw them delivered, she knew I was waiting for the two parcels, well I am waiting for three to be honest, not sure when the third is coming.

Update: two high level tracks are now ballasted, that was the easy bit, no points. In the station I had a old pencil which was nearing the end of it's life so I carved it down on the lowest part with a craft knife and fixed it to the side of a 63ft coach, I do not think I will be running anything longer. I then marked on the paper template which was taped in place, this will give me a rough idea of the edge of the platform. I then painted over again with sleeper grime, hopefully this will leave a line on the cork when I remove the template, no big deal if it does not. The next job is ballasting the station section, I will do it before installing the platforms, I can always fill in any gaps after upto the edge of the platform wall.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on June 05, 2020, 09:16:39 PM
I do not think I will be running anything longer.

Chris

You say you wont run anything longer, what if you had visitors who brought their own stock, or those impulsive buys.
I remember a friend bringing a Minitrix 9F to run on Hillsden, my heart sunk, luckily he passed the platforms, similarly a HST set.

just wanted you to be sure

Stay safe

Mike H  8)

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 05, 2020, 10:47:11 PM
Thanks Mike, all my railway friends are on here so to speak, but I will probably give myself a bit of leeway regarding the platforms anyway. One of the longest steam locos I have is a Black five, but it is a non runner at the moment, I really do need to fix it or get it fixed, plus the Deltic is pretty long. I am pretty pleased with the ballasting I have done so far, it is hard already, I have gone over it with the vac already and it did not pick much loose up.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 06, 2020, 09:04:01 PM
More progress tonight with the ballasting, I have nearly completed all tracks on the rh scenic board.The test will be when its dried, hopefully I have not glued my points up in the process, I have moved the switch blades so it should be ok. The next job is the viaduct, I still need some adjustments to the track on the viaduct, some of the track needs some cork underneath it and the board join leading onto the viaduct on the upline, the rails look slightly low. For anybody interested I am using Delux Ballast magic with their water spray bottle. I will post some pics tomorrow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 06, 2020, 10:34:44 PM
Quick update:I have fixed the track joins, really happy with them now. I have sorted the track over the viaduct, cork where required and then painted the track on the viaduct and the left scenic board with sleeper grime. Here is a pic of the right scenic board after ballasting, just a few places need tweaking, it is best to wait till it is absolutely dry, the points feel free so should be ok. I want to get all the ballasting done this weekend then I can start work on scenics.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-060620223416.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on June 07, 2020, 11:16:31 AM
 :hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
 Looking good  :thumbsup: so far Chris, nice progress  :thumbsup:
    stay safe regards Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 07, 2020, 07:20:00 PM
I just thought I would post this after Mike of Hillsden fame posted a pic of his old 4f. My old LMS 4f 4232 crossing the viaduct with a un protypical passenger train. I have been using it to test the track after ballasting.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-070620191736.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 07, 2020, 10:52:13 PM
Update: Tonight I have finished the ballasting in the scenic areas on the left board. This was a bit difficult in places especially where the monkey bridge is, the wood is very narrow, the plan is to add some plastic strip to the bridge structure to strengthen it at the same time giving clearence for the trains. I am just hoping the main structure of the bridge is long enough, I am not sure what I used to make the square girder sections and if I have anymore. I know I made the stone work from Ratio stone sheets which I have bought some more. It is thick stuff and a bit difficult to work with and cut but I will live with that.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on June 08, 2020, 07:58:44 PM
Very good to see the progress with the track, Chris, and that the Collett brake end coach has arrived, too. Soo you'll be able to add it to your GWR "Pullman" train and give it a run?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 08, 2020, 09:41:34 PM
Thanks Chris, Yes I will give the collett coach a run soon, I have give the track a vac but I need to check closely and make sure everything is safe before running the Castle.
I have been busy tonight re-arranging the railway room, organising my boxes etc. My initial idea was to have the layout over to the left of the room but a big box was stopping that, I measured it and decided it was just has good across the back, the layout has no need to go that far under the eaves so the layout is now over to the right. The layout can be pulled forwards for operating sessions then I can gain access to the fiddle yard from the left, I have better access to one of my music keyboards too, not played it for ages the layout was blocking access. I have also moved my Alpha Box unit to the front of the layout, I had to extend the bus connection wire to it. I had it under the layout at the back on the right side, when I switched power on to the layout I had to crawl to it to press on the on button on the top.I have made a shelf on the right front support legs for it, it is easy to reach now.
So I am progressing well, just need to tweak my ballsting, there are a few holes where feed wires go to the track, I need to plug those first, the point motor hole will be a bit trick to disguise. I am please with the points after ballasting them, they all seem to be working ok and look quite good.
I am now starting to plan about the scenics I will start on the left side first with the two tunnels and a big hill. I want the tunnels so that you do not see the train turning right imediately after entering the tunnel and spoiling the illusion, and a hill to have a reason for the tunnelin the first place.
Keep safe everybody.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 09, 2020, 03:16:57 PM
This afternoon I have been doing some woodwork, I have made a back board for the left scenic board. It includes a hole for access inside the tunnels, I still need to make two doors to go on them yet but no rush for those. I will post a pic later.

Pic has promised.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-090620195259.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 09, 2020, 11:32:54 PM
Update: This is my latest update, I have painted the left board with primer plus added supports for the hill. I think I will still need to make part of the hill behind the tunnel mouth removable, even though I have made a nice size access I do not think I could reach just behind the tunnel mouth.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-090620232911.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Bealman on June 10, 2020, 12:07:22 AM
Yep, the more access the better. My back and ankle are telling me the hard way these days.  :(
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 10, 2020, 09:05:57 PM
More work today on the structural work for the hill and tunnels. I have also decided where the tunnelmouths will be and started work on the aproaches to the tunnels. I have boxed in a lot of the four  tracks leading to the fiddle yard, making sure I have plenty of room this time to get to the track for cleaning and recovering anything that stops in the tunnels. I only have small hands but did not leave enough room on the last layout plus I made a hatch that hinges up, that was a mistake so I have learned from my mistakes, the doors will hinge sideways this time.
The Plan, the track on the high level will come over the viaduct through a small cutting and then enter the tunnel under a big hill, put it this way the hill from the tunnelmouth is nearly 2', it seems a waste of board space but was a requirement of my mimimum of second radius curves, remember the lower level passes underneath the high level in this tunnel that is also second radius.I will post some more pics tomorrow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 11, 2020, 09:21:05 PM
Today I have been doing more work on the left tunnels and hill structure, I am covering the track to protect it from debri so when I start to build the hill over the top the track is protected, looking forward to that bit. I am also making the forground to the entraces to the tunnels, in places it was a little narrow so gluing small bits of wood, it is always handy to keep offcuts. I need to blend the hillside onto the start of the viaduct, I love it, I will getting the plaster bandage out soon.
I once made a hill on one of my old  layout's out of chicken wire, but when you put your hand inside for access you had to take care not to hurt yourself it's sharp stuff so no more of that. On the pic you can see a couple of tunnel entrances these are not the ones I am planning on using, they are just for using in the building process especially the Peco one I have a new one for that. The low level tunnelI am not sure if it is going there, I might need to move it. I do not want it looking like one tunnel's going under another that would be very unlikely and unrealistic. I made that mistake before, it would be a shame because I may loose the left curved track after the monkey bridge.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-110620211706.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 11, 2020, 11:26:40 PM
Well I have sorted the position of the low level tunnel entrance, the righthand one, I have moved it a touch back so it is straight but with the track curving towards it. I went online to check if any tunnels in the uk had curved track before the tunnel entrance and there was a few to choose from. I have decide on the entrance being partly hidden by high walls each side of the entrance, probably a rock formation of some sort, I need to find my woodland scenics rock mould now. It is fun doing scenics for a change and this time with using a open plan baseboard it is different, I will post some more pics tomorrow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on June 12, 2020, 07:40:49 AM
The tunnel entrances are beginning to frame the whole end of the layout, Chris. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 12, 2020, 09:07:34 PM
Thanks Laurence, yes It will be a large hill and should look pretty impressive, I hope. I have done more work around the tunnels tonight, I am making a lift out section for the left tunnel, it would be a bit of a reach from the hatch. I had to figure out how I did it last time, but its good fun, the most I have had for ages. I am getting nearer to the viaduct soon there will be no gaps in scenery from the hill to the viaduct, I will post some pics when it looks a bit more like a hill. Now where is my plaster bandage......
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 12, 2020, 09:18:12 PM
I too am impressed with the tunnel chris. moving the portal a tad makes the difference. Research was useful I hope
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 12, 2020, 09:51:00 PM
Thanks Chris, yes always good to research if you are not sure about something. It also means I keep the curve before the monkey bridge and also means more running track. The plan is to have rocks over the top of the entrance on the right tunnel with verticle walls on each side, it should look good. At the moment I am building things with bits of offcuts of wood or even card, ready for plaster cloth or shaper sheet etc. The hard bit is figuring out the heights especially where the lift out section is, it is s bit difficult with there being two tunnels but I love it.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 12, 2020, 09:55:59 PM
Be interesting to know the tunnels you found in your research. Just hope the clearances will work out and sure as maybe thought will be made if a lift out section could be incorporated to did cleaning etc
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 12, 2020, 10:54:31 PM
Hi Chris one of the tunnels was on the Sheffield line Woodhead another was Stanage where it just curves on the entrance. I must admit apart from the channel tunnel my track curves more than most of them, modelers licence applies.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=railway+tunnel+uk+images&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjg1Jq0of3pAhV7TxUIHeXfBIEQsAR6BAgKEAE&biw=1261&bih=930 (https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=railway+tunnel+uk+images&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjg1Jq0of3pAhV7TxUIHeXfBIEQsAR6BAgKEAE&biw=1261&bih=930)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 12, 2020, 11:00:00 PM
Ah. Standedge tunnel and totley you refer to. There was an article which i can send . It's on standedge tunnels , a beautiful n gauge layout MR262 july 2019. Worth a read @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 13, 2020, 09:23:12 AM
Chris @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) You want to watch Martin Zero on YouTube on the Stanage tunnels, he does a really interesting one going inside the old railway tunnel and showing the canal tunnels. If that article you mention is in model rail magazine, I think I have read it (mr262).
I would put you a link for you tube but I do not know how on this I pad.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 13, 2020, 09:25:52 AM
 :NGF:It's ok chris. I will find martin zero and have a look in when not working. Thanks for the heads up chris @lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784) try   https://youtu.be/-VMOxCWZtFg
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 13, 2020, 10:50:35 AM
Thanks for that Chris @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) i have watched lots of Martins videos and I actually met him when he was making a video about the wet earth colliery which is not far from where I live just before the lockdown. I walk past there and cycle regularly, I knew a lot about it already but he added some extra interesting facts. The videos about the river medlock in the centre of Manchester are fascinating, fish swimming in the river in the city centre.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 13, 2020, 10:54:21 AM
No worries chris. I have the model rail article anybody interested on standedge modelled in n gauge. Really super n gauge layout
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 13, 2020, 10:10:37 PM
I have been working on the left tunnel entrance ( plaster cloth at last ) tonight so I thought I would post a couple of pics but with a train for added interest. Here is my Black Five 5020 ,at present a non runner, pulling four Eastern region coaches on a holday special on its way to Blackpool. Thanks Chris @Chris in Prague (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2895) for the coaches,I really need to fix the Black Five.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-130620220625.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-130620220903.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on June 13, 2020, 10:18:39 PM
Thanks, Chris. Good to see the coaches safely arrived but I'm very sorry that your "Black Five" isn't running at present. I hope that you'll be able to fix it, soon. The landscaping is coming along well.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on June 14, 2020, 11:43:24 AM
That really is a fine sight!
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on June 14, 2020, 12:12:29 PM
I might have mentioned this before Chris, but that viaduct is one fine piece of modelling!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on June 14, 2020, 12:34:25 PM
I might have mentioned this before Chris, but that viaduct is one fine piece of modelling!  :thumbsup:
I agree, it looks excellent & the river below looks really cool too. :thumbsup:

Regarding the train, I still have my Hornby Silver Seal OO Gauge Black 5, in my OO box up in the loft as well as a couple of maroon coaches to go with it, in fact I've got more OO gauge stuff than I have N Gauge stuff at present  :doh:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 14, 2020, 12:35:37 PM
Thanks for the comments, I like the viaduct even though it is a oo gauge kit. I have a few repairs to do to it with the walling, that should be easy enough. That is the river Irwell by the way hence the name for the layout.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on June 14, 2020, 01:15:48 PM
Thanks for the comments, I like the viaduct even though it is a oo gauge kit. I have a few repairs to do to it with the walling, that should be easy enough. That is the river Irwell by the way hence the name for the layout.

Chris
Is obviously not the bridge over the Irwell in Radcliffe circa 1989 / 1990 I was involved with.

Stay safe

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on June 14, 2020, 01:38:53 PM
That is a fine viaduct Chris.
You really wouldnít think that it is actually 00 scale.
And the tunnel mouth and hill are coming along very nicely indeed.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 14, 2020, 04:47:53 PM
Thanks for the comments, which bridge are you talking about Mike. The ex rail bridge that has been made a footpath and cycle way. I have just been over that this afternoon on my bike, a enjoyable ride, it keeps me fit I did over 10 mile today. There is of course a stone built viaduct through the middle of Radcliffe which the Metro tram now goes over, used to be 3rd rail electric class 504.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on June 14, 2020, 05:01:30 PM
Thanks for the comments, which bridge are you talking about Mike. The ex rail bridge that has been made a footpath and cycle way. I have just been over that this afternoon on my bike, a enjoyable ride, it keeps me fit I did over 10 mile today. There is of course a stone built viaduct through the middle of Radcliffe which the Metro tram now goes over, used to be 3rd rail electric class 504.

New road, road bridge over the Irwell, footbridge and a reasonable length of retaining wall, all known as A665 Blackburn St Diversion.

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 14, 2020, 05:04:56 PM
Chris. Were you discussing part of the route served a long time ago by the emu stock that ran to bury ? Now trams I believe
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 14, 2020, 05:29:25 PM
Thanks Mike, yes the road bridge at the side of Asda on the town centre bypass, it held up ok in the floods a couple of years ago.
Yes Chris the line that was the third rail Manchester Bury now the metro tram. There is a old bridge at the back of the Asda store that took a line from Bury through Radcliffe and via Kearsley junction into Manchester. I based my viaduct on the Radcliffe one or  the big disused viaduct known has the 13 arches on the trail, unfortunately you can not cross the viaduct on the trail it is fenced off. The track bed is known has the sculpture trail, a lot of people walking or cycling down there at the moment.
My first layout was called Radcliffe North Junction and was based on where the electric line branched off to the left, and another line branched off to Bolton. There was five stations in Radcliffe at one time,( the is a rumour there was six) the present station at Radcliffe had three platforms with a branch to Bolton via Bradley Fold, joining the Bolton Bury line, the Bury railway station was known has Knowsley st.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 14, 2020, 05:33:48 PM
Just a update, the plan tonight is to do more work on the hill, pics to follow later.

By the way the 3rd rail electric was started by the L&Y railway, it was one of the first. It was also different in the pickup was a side shoe and third rail was protected with wood.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 14, 2020, 05:50:56 PM
I canít believe it, just watching a video of a Black five 45020 which is my loco the one I pictured on my post, need to fix it now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 14, 2020, 10:32:44 PM
Latest update: I had to patch up the holes around the tunnel entrances first with bits of wood and card, I then placed scrap paper in strategic places on the side of the hill to form shapes then laid some old newspaper across the top to flatten it out a bit. Then the fun part with the plaster bandage, there is still a lot to do yet. The verticle space over the right tunnel is for some sort of rock face, also the top of the left tunnel is removable for access to the track. The hill will come down towards the front edge of the baseboard but not to baseboard level, otherwise the engineers building the railway may have taken the railway around the hill avoiding the need for the tunnel.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-140620222537.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on June 15, 2020, 09:35:22 AM
Looking good, Chris.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 15, 2020, 09:48:58 AM
Thanks Chris, I used a lot of plaster bandage and did not even overlap it 50% but I intend to skim some of the hill with scenic plaster so it will be ok. It is solid wood underneath protecting the track so is pretty strong as it is.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 15, 2020, 12:32:36 PM
Well my local model shop is open at last, trouble is big queue, I hate queueís. So I rung up and Jim is delivering me some more plaster bandage and some grass flock later, now I like that what good service. So you can guess what I will be doing next, I need to dig my rock moulds out too.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 15, 2020, 09:31:01 PM
Update:I have decided to work on the hill at the front, to the left of the two tunnels.I have decided on the height and made a piece of ply to fit across the front to protect the hill, which will dictate the height, I will paint it white afterwards. I am putting some bracing across made with strips of card, I will glue some paper over the top then finish with the plaster bandage. The next job then is to carry the hill onto grassland, I have yet to decide how I am going to do that because it is a open frame baseboard at the point. Pics to follow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Chris in Prague on June 15, 2020, 10:32:59 PM
Looking forward to seeing it develop, Chris.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 15, 2020, 11:10:05 PM
Latest update: Built the side of the hill,most of the time its waiting for glue todry.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-150620230729.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-150620230936.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 16, 2020, 04:45:46 PM
Well not impressed with Woodland scenics shaper plaster, it went hard so quick I had to throw the first lot, managed to salvage a couple of pieces I can use has rocks. I made another lot but sod waiting for two mins I used it straight away, it started going off too.  Well I will have another go after tea, I will mix in smaller lots. Something I noticed the waste stuff  felt very warm to touch, adding more water made it worse just like the plaster you use on walls, how the hell you can sculpture it is anybodyís guess.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 16, 2020, 04:53:40 PM
Chris. That's not good. Have you tried fillers eg polyfilla type or any other product. I used layers of newspaper and 50 50 pva then dry then filler. Others may have different methods which they maybe more comfortable familiar with
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on June 16, 2020, 04:54:57 PM
Hi Chris,

That hill is removable isn't it?

Or at least enough of it to get to the train that will stall/derail inside the tunnel?

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 16, 2020, 05:17:37 PM
No the hill is fixed not removable, thin ply protects the tracks John apart from a piece over the front of the left tunnel, then made with paper covered over with plaster bandage. But there is a large access hole in the back board see my previous post.(662).
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 16, 2020, 05:33:55 PM
Thanks Chris @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) , I boxed the track in then layers of paper and  pva then plaster bandage to form the shape of the hill. I am running out of pva my Hobbycraft bottle is getting low, I went today but saw the size of the queue at Hobbycraft and B&Q but came away. I then called in a local small diy shop and bought some, it was expensive but looking at it it is strong stuff used in building so I can water it down. I have two boxes of the Woodland Scenics stuff bought months ago so I will use it up now, I will just make small lots now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 16, 2020, 05:39:53 PM
I always use my local independent diy store Chris. Are you planning to use other manufacturers materials ? Take your time, was just an idea as always cautious with ideas and you learn as you go along guess
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 16, 2020, 09:56:11 PM
Well I have just put some more over the top very thin to try and get it smooth. It is better than it was but i am not doing all of the hill now. I might just put some more plaster bandage, it is cheaper too, over where I am not happy with it but make sure I smooth it over properly. Here is a pic showing the progress, the removable piece for access to the front of the tunnel is shown removed.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-160620215437.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 17, 2020, 12:14:49 PM
Just been to my local model shop, stocked up with plaster bandage and some more flock, will crash on with the hill today.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on June 17, 2020, 03:28:24 PM
Just been to my local model shop, stocked up with plaster bandage and some more flock, will crash on with the hill today.

Good luck Chris, looking forward to a success story in the near future  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 17, 2020, 09:28:05 PM
More progress on the right side of the hill. I covered the big hole in the open baseboards with thin ply then pieces of card to shape the hill with rolled up paper and covered with plaster cloth. There will be a big mill in front of the river, and I am thinking of a farm or maybe disused farm on the side of the hill. There will be a road across the back of the layout with a bridge over the river, this road will continue over onto the right scenic board. I have not decided on everything yet all this is for later. Once the hill is completed I will start on the tunnels on the other side, that will be a semi built up area, that's the plan at the moment, things can change and probably will. I am trying to keep things has light as possible, ie keep the weight down.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-170620212651.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 17, 2020, 09:29:25 PM
Looking like a productive evening chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 17, 2020, 09:35:38 PM
Thanks Chris, there is a slight ridge where the card is folded I managed to disguise the rest with rolled up paper, but I need a flat area for possibly a small farm of some sort and some sort of track leading to it. I have the basic structure so I can always build up on it. I am just leveling the area in front of the river ready for when I make a mill building, it wont be has good has Mikes on Hillsden, we shall see.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 17, 2020, 09:41:22 PM
Impressive and it's your representation . I used a set of 6 strips of wood that I found in a cupboard and nailed and glued another small batch to make a lift out section for another member with a handle to aid lifting and cut through polystyrene blocks to make a block on top before pva and grass. That  will help aid track maintenance etc
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on June 17, 2020, 10:21:48 PM

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-170620212651.jpeg)

I do hope that's not your blood in the pic but, more worrying, if it isn't then whose is it? :worried: :uneasy:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 17, 2020, 11:57:09 PM
No its not blood Mick its where water has dripped from the plaster bandage on the piece of plywood.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 18, 2020, 09:29:21 PM
I have not done a lot on the railway today, I had a flat pack chest of drawers to build for our bedroom. I am also doing more orgainising and throwing away stuff that should have been thrown years ago.
Our main Tv screen has started to go,one of the back light's is showing through apparantly a common problem on some Samsung tv's. I have bought a new TV waiting for delivery on Sunday, with  the intention of putting the old TV in the loft to replace the 10yr old Samsung led TV which is there. I will gain a smart tv with youtube etc for my loft room so I can watch Railway videos while I work on my railway, I can put up with the odd white spot on the screen. There are videos on youtube telling you how you can glue the caps back on to fix the tv but I will leave it for now unless it goes a lot worse. It has not been a good couple of weeks to be honest, lucky I had bought most of the stuff I needed for the railway before. The loft window in the railway room had some mould round it which I cleaned off, but the blackout blind looked dirty, but when I tried to clean that my hand went straight through it had rotted, can not complain it has been up at least 20 years. Trouble was the new blind cost me £83, thats nearly a new loco or possibly a Union Mills, you win some you lose some.
Re the railway: I have matched the removable piece over the tunnel entrance with more shaper plaster so it is the same colour and texture has the surrounding area and patched up a few other areas with what was left. I have also buitl up some ground at the side of the river where the mill will go so it is level. I am going to put some sort of base coat on the hill tomorrow, get rid of the white look.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on June 18, 2020, 10:10:55 PM
I am a great fan of Samsung products and our main TV is a Samsung. By saying "one of the back light's is showing through", do you mean it is a pixel that is now white? If so, our previous Samsung TV had the same problem. However, it did not put me off getting another Samsung  :no:

You are progressing well with the layout.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 19, 2020, 12:04:15 AM
Hi there @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) yes I like Samsung TV's myself this one is our third, the one in my loft is a 40" HD Led model and is 10 years old. The one in our front room which is just over five years old has what is called backlights so there is a white bright area near the bottom of the screen, it is a bit annoying depending what is being viewed. Apparantly they are glued onto the back of the actual panel and they can come loose, if you are brave enough you can have a go and do it yourself and glue them back. I will leave it for now it is still working and ok for my use in the loft. I have actually ordered a LG nano screen this time plus it has dts sound, I struggle to hear speech on the Samsung I even tried a sound bar with it but swmbo did not like that.
Keep Safe.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on June 19, 2020, 08:08:12 AM
We bought our Samsung nine years ago when analogue switchoff occurred.  Its sound was always terrible and I bought a set of powered speakers that we still use with it to this day.  Otherwise it's fine.  Not that we watch it much anyway.  Sorry  :offtopicsign:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 19, 2020, 09:29:37 AM
Thanks Laurence, swmbo watches more tv than me especially in the evenings when I am in the railway room. Itís true what you say I like the present Samsung tv but the sound is a bit terrible, when I do watch tv dramas I can not tell what is being said.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on June 19, 2020, 09:55:23 AM
I had a flat pack chest of drawers to build for our bedroom.

Hope you had better luck than I normally do. Generally I end up with a bedroom shed and a few bits left over :confused2:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on June 19, 2020, 10:46:26 AM
I struggle to hear speech on the Samsung I even tried a sound bar with it but swmbo did not like that.


I have that problem, but I know, from tests at the hospital, that I have problems hearing certain frequencies. I did think of getting a soundbar, but might not bother now.  ;) Anyway, back on topic, how is the 'scenickery' going?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 19, 2020, 09:49:34 PM
Update: today I have painted the side boards on the outside black gloss, I need to finish the right end, I will do that when I can move the layout. I also painted a shelf for underneath my TV cupboard. I have been to B&Q today, I bought some conti board for another project in the bedroom and a piece of board for the TV to use has a stand.
I have now given the hill it's first coat of paint, I used artists acrylic colours watered down of course. I have used a mix of Reeves grass green and Windsor & Newton sap green and zinc mixing white, just to vary it a touch. I have also glued some wood on the river bank to make it level on both sides ready for the road bridge, thinking ahead.
Keep Safe everyone.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-190620214907.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 19, 2020, 10:02:52 PM
Here is a coach I have just received from Chris in Prague, thanks Chris. It is missing a buffer and has a buckeye coupling on one end I need to swap, but it is a great addition to my fleet.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-190620220006.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 20, 2020, 08:39:48 PM
A few jobs tonight, the first was fit the shelf in the tv cupboard. Then on the railway I added some polyfiller around the rocks over the tunnel entrance  and on the sides aproaching the entrance. I am thinking of giving parts of the hillside a darker wash to dull down the green a touch in places,I will do some experimenting and see what is best.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 20, 2020, 08:44:49 PM
Impressive work just needs a tunnel mouth. I would agree a dark wash would help before the scatter and flock
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 20, 2020, 11:06:36 PM
Update: I have given the hill a dark wash, I did the left area first. Then I watered it down a bit more and did the other side and a couple of other places. I also did around the tunnel mouth and the rocks area. I am quite happy with the result I will see how it dries and post another pic tomorrow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on June 21, 2020, 08:27:51 AM
Hi Chris,

I was just wondering why you are so particular with the colours used for painting the plaster bandage, as I assume you are going to cover it with flock / scatter at some stage and hence will not be seen.

I just use whatever paint I have available in a green or brown colour, and this is used just to seal the plaster surface and making it look anything but bright white until I get around to covering it.

I use basically green scene scatter material of various shades, first layer is a mixture of browns laid on a neat PVA base, when dry, I donít remove the excess but go over it with a diluted PVA mix with a eye dropper, this makes the whole area solid, when dry apply further colours of scatter with each layer given the diluted PVA treatment, this gives a solid covering that is robust.

Apologies if you think I am trying to teach you to suck eggs, I was just curious as I couldnít see the need to worry about the colour.

Stay safe

Mike H  8)

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on June 21, 2020, 08:47:39 AM
I do pretty much the same as Mike but plaster the paint on quite thickly then sprinkle the scatter over that so it sticks.
I then apply static grass over that.
Just my method.....there is generally more than one way to skin a cat though so use whichever method suits.
Cheers
Martin
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 21, 2020, 08:04:09 PM
I have not done a great deal today on the railway, been a bit busy setting TV's up. I now have a nice to watch videos and railway stuff etc in the loft room.
Re the railway, I found the removable cover for access to the tunnel entrance was stopping the tunnel mouth itself from sitting correctly in position. I had to cut it down a touch using a razor saw, then I filled the end with polyfilla, It will need painting when dry. When I have finished with that and fitted the tunnel entrance in position I can make a start on flock/ foliage etc.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-210620195704.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 23, 2020, 10:11:01 PM
Well after more work on the tunnel removable cover, I put a layer of glue on the end and then left it overnight, then I touched it up with some paint. Tonight I have added the flock, I have used some jarvis on the top of the hill then built up around it with Woodland Scenics Green Grass fine flock.The main idea with trying to get some shades of green paint on was so if any showed through I would get varying shades on the hill, I think it has worked.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/95/1784-230620220535.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 26, 2020, 10:59:39 AM
Sorry everyone but no progress for the last two days, itís a bit too warm at the moment in my railway loft room. It is raining here at the moment so maybe I can get up there later and do some more work.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 27, 2020, 05:47:59 PM
Well I have had some progress today, more sealing work on the tunnel cover, I do not want anything falling off it if it has to be removed for any reason. I have also done some work on the right side of the viaduct. Two pieces of wood glued where the board join is, then shaped using my dremel . Then plaster bandage to fill the gap on the hill behind the factory, I have also fitted a Peco tunnel entrance on the high level tunnel. On searching through my scenics from the old layout I have salvaged two bridge girder sides that I scratch built, they look a little low to the track when in place so I need to do some more work with them. Pics later.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 27, 2020, 08:16:07 PM
More work since the last post, trying to catch up now after the heatwave. A bit of pollyfilla around the tunnel entrance plus the side support walls have been fitted. More work on the removable piece over the tunnel entrance, it is taking shape now, a few white bits that need painting. The only thing I am not happy about is I think the hill is a bit too green in places, I might tone it down a touch.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-270620201059.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-270620200949.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on June 27, 2020, 08:29:45 PM
I am with you a bit Chris in relation to the greenery. Rather than use any more paint, maybe just some darker green scatter or suchlike spread over the green paint, without covering it all.  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on June 27, 2020, 08:54:55 PM
The shade of green is a bit too dark for me. I'd lighten it up, either with a lighter paint or some lighter green scatter and then break up the uniformity with some clumps of foliage to represent small bushes. You could dab some colour on bushes to create gorse.
Sorry - but them's my thoughts.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 27, 2020, 10:07:16 PM
Thanks @dannyboy (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4209) it is flock not paint and I think it is too dark/bright green, and Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264). I agree Mick it is well too bright and too dark for me, it is not how I visualised it at all.  It is woodland scenics flock/scatter, the trouble was with the lockdown I was buying blind, my fault I asked for woodland scenics flock in jars.  I have been to the shop since and bought something a bit lighter plus some in pkts I have in stock already. I did some on the top of the hill but that was looking too brown, I bought two jars of Woodland scenics, the one used is Fine Turf Grass Green the other is Blended Turf Green Blend, they both look very similar in colour. I have not opened the Green Blend I might take it back. I have not been over the hill with the vac yet so some may come off in the vac, I could then try something lighter especially on the top of the hill which will give a better perspective. Plus a few stone walls and bushes to add to the scene, there is no way it is staying as it is even if I have to paint the flock.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 27, 2020, 10:12:45 PM
Chris. Have you an independent diy store that sells painters spray green ? Reason in suggesting is I used this to make an area much darker than the acrylic paint adjacent to my canal scene then used flock and lichen
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 27, 2020, 10:36:20 PM
Thanks Chris @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) I have plenty of paint in various shades of green in enamels and acrylics plus I have a airbrush I can use. I also have a can of Halfords green spray paint but I think that is too dark too. I will find something to do, it is a no rush job and with the warm weather it drys quick.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on June 28, 2020, 06:46:24 AM
If possible, Chris, I'd add a few lighter patches and a few darker patches.  Such a large area of grass is rarely the same all over.  A bit of brown or straw colour might also enhance it.  And as Mick says, some small clumps of brambles or such like might help as well.  But it is starting to look really good.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on June 28, 2020, 07:51:44 AM
Hi Chris, Iíll add my voice to the ďtoo brightĒ club.
Have you thought about applying static grass over the top of the flick?
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on June 28, 2020, 11:42:46 AM
Chris,

I agree with the others regarding the green.

I would look at the steeper areas and treat them differently, they would not be well vegetated and earth / rock colours would be evident with a small amount of Green vegetation, gorse / brambles as suggested would look good too.

May I suggest that you look at the photographs of Hillsden where it goes through cuttings to see the kind of finish I am talking about for the steeper slopes.

Stay safe

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 28, 2020, 11:58:46 AM
Thanks everyone for the comments and ideaís, I am not happy with the hill so it will be changed. It looks nothing like the thoughts in my head, I think the heat got to me when I layed that flock on, watch this space.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 29, 2020, 01:54:12 PM
Well I have been to my local model shop again this morning, I was the first customer. I have bought some moorland colour flock plus a few trees and some various pieces of styrene so I can work on scratch building some bridges, I will post a pic or two later.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 29, 2020, 10:04:29 PM
More progress tonight with the hill and behind the factory, still plenty to do yet to get it how I want but getting there. I used my woodland Scenics scenic cement and sprayed it with the spray bottle before adding a different colour of flock. Also more work around the rocks above the tunnel entrances. I have also patched up the hill behind the factory at the end of the viaduct with wood and plaster bandage and painted it in a base colour. I used a couple of pieces of mdf which I glued on the top of the board ends, I then shaped them using my dremel. I then used plaster bandage on the factory side, when dry I used some poly filla to smooth it out before painting. I have not decided how big the hill will be the other side of the join will be yet but I will disguise the join with a few bushes and shrubs.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-290620215459.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-290620215836.jpeg)
and here after plaster and base coat of paint.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-290620220028.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 29, 2020, 11:32:29 PM
Impressive viaduct
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Innovationgame on June 30, 2020, 06:29:55 AM
The mottled effect on the hill is a big improvement.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on June 30, 2020, 05:30:41 PM
Well more work around the tunnel entrance patching upwith filler and I have fitted the Dapol Home signal in front of the tunnel and fixed a workmans hut in place too. I am now working on the viaduct itself at the other end making a new supporting wall, lucky I kept the box with all the left over bits from building the viaduct. The good news is I tested the signal using a 9v battery and it works so I can only summise the power supply to it on the last layout must have give up the ghost not the signal so sorry Dapol for blaming you. I was using a 16v ac off a old transformer converted to dc so not sure which failed. I am planning more work on the hill shrubs and walls etc. Yesterday I was looking for some pine trees and I came away with a pkt of Jarvis trees which are for n-gauge and are quite nice but the wrong type of trees. Anyway looking in my scenics box I found a 24 pkt of Woodland Scenics Pine trees and there are 11 trees unused, not sure what I did with the other 13, must have used them on the first layout no idea where they are now.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 01, 2020, 11:12:40 PM
Here is a pic showing the supporting wall on the right side of the viaduct plus you can see the work I did yesterday on the hill and also  the signal fitted before the tunnel.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-010720230940.jpeg)
I have done more work since taking this pic, on the bottom of the wall out of site with plaster bandage and now there is also soil in front of the wall. The next job is tidy up the track join carefully with ballast.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on July 01, 2020, 11:44:42 PM
Hi Chris,

The hillside is looking really great now, especially with the mixed tones youíve used. The lead line of the viaduct towards it is lovely, and will be a great focal point for photos in the future when you have trains running both ways across the bridge.

Super job  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on July 02, 2020, 08:03:49 AM
Looking good Chris with the hillside and viaduct really starting to look good.
One small detail really caught my eye. Itís the way the concrete area just by the red lorry starts to blend, seamlessly, into the grassy wasteland with the browner, drier grass on the edge.

Great work

Martin
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on July 02, 2020, 09:24:35 AM
Hi Chris,

The main hillside is looking a lot better, if I may make a suggestion, you have some fairly steep areas, from the photograph they look at an angle of 60 degrees plus, these areas are still very much green, which does not look natural, I would prefer to see some exposed earth in those areas, with only a little greenery.

Thatís only my thoughts, it is your railway and hence your decision

Stay safe

Mike H  8)

Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 02, 2020, 09:42:12 AM
Thanks for the comments Martin and Mike, yes donít worry about the steeper areas Mike I have plans for those, I know exactly what you mean I have already painted some darker to see what that was like.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on July 02, 2020, 10:02:28 AM
I agree with Mike's comments but everything's coming along really well, Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 02, 2020, 11:12:08 PM
Getting there now the hill is beginning to look more like what I wanted, perhaps darker than I envisaged.I have done some more painting using a mixture of Burnt umber and a sand colour of acrylic paints which I bought from The Range.  I have also been to the model shop again today and bought more stone walling for the top of the hill. I figured the hill would have more than wall across at some point and the tunnel entrance wood be walled off to prevent the sheep losing there way to their deaths.
I also been working on the second tunnel, for this one with there being a slight curve I am using a Noch Steinmauer tunnel portal because it is a touch wider. I am also fixing in place supporting walls on either side of the entrance. I have to do a bit of filling in places where I have the stone walls because of course they are dead flat and my hill was not, so a bit of tweaking was required but its fun and things are looking better.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on July 03, 2020, 09:25:27 AM
@lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784) Just spotted this in the very next thread I read, Chris....

https://www.osbornsmodels.com/archn0200-arch-laser-flexible-cotswold-stone-walling--gate-pack---n-gauge-43315-p.asp (https://www.osbornsmodels.com/archn0200-arch-laser-flexible-cotswold-stone-walling--gate-pack---n-gauge-43315-p.asp)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 03, 2020, 11:21:19 AM
Thanks Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) that looks good but too late now bought the Jarvis stuff. After doing my shopping trip I hope to do more work on the layout this afternoon, canít go walking itís chucking it down.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 03, 2020, 09:57:59 PM
Today I have been working on several projects on the railway. First I decided to finish the track ballasting a job I normally loath, I must admit it is not has bad using Ballast Magic. For a second I thought I had run out of ballast but on checking I have two bags of the stuff I prefer to use which is Woodland Scenics Fine Dark Brown. I worked on the track on the viaduct first, there was quite a few gaps plus where the track crosses over the board edge. Then I did in front of the second tunnel up to the curve for the monkey bridge, next I finished the support walls for the second tunnel, I had to cut down pieces to match and reposition the top stones on the wall. I then decided to do some more painting, I used some more Burnt Umber with a mixture of gray, painting around the rocks over the second tunnel and around the walls on the hill where I had used some filler. I also used some of the mixture around the hill.Next I decided to patch up the backscene where I had clumsily splashed green on it. I used a mixture of poster paints and some zinc white acrylic to represent the sky and clouds. You will not see much of it because the plan is for a edge of a plantation of pine trees, similar to the ones over Belmont north of Bolton near where I live and go walking a lot. Plenty to do yet but I am pleased with how it is coming on now. I need to finish the track so I can run some more trains they should look good exiting the tunnel and going over the viaduct. First two pics shows the work on the support walls and entrance to the tunnel.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-030720215201.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-030720215506.jpeg)
And here is where I am up to at the moment.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-030720215650.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 03, 2020, 10:01:34 PM
Really like the landscaping work chris. Coming together
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: degsy_safc on July 03, 2020, 10:20:54 PM
Excellent Chris, itís all really coming together for you now..

Great job mate  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 03, 2020, 10:37:59 PM
Thanks for the comments, I am a lot happier now, very pleased with the removable piece over the tunnel entrance you hardly know its there. It is amazing how what a bit of different colour and a few shrubs on the hill has transformed the look to the left of the tunnel entrance, not finished yet though.

Update: I have just found the 13 Pine trees I used on the first layout in a box plus more stone walls and another box of Woodland scenics tree materials, so 13 was not unlucky for me today.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: jpendle on July 03, 2020, 11:51:32 PM
It's looking very good Chris, I just wish progress were as fast on my layout  :(

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: keithbythe sea on July 04, 2020, 07:38:24 AM
Looking really good Chris.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on July 04, 2020, 09:52:20 AM
Me likee :). Great job, Chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Delboy on July 04, 2020, 10:45:40 AM
Looking good Chris.
Look forward o seeing a video of a few locos rolling through.
Very impressive.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: cornish yorkie on July 04, 2020, 10:50:26 AM
 :hellosign:  :greatpicturessign:
Looking proper Pennine Chris, splendid modelling.
   regards Derek.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 04, 2020, 01:06:13 PM
Thanks everyone including Derek, Delboy and Mick comments much appreciated, maybe I am doing something write.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: port perran on July 04, 2020, 02:16:32 PM
You definitely are doing things correctly Chris.
Itís looking really good.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 04, 2020, 02:28:00 PM
Impressive ballasting with the brown shades realistic on the tracks leading from the tunnel over the viaduct chris
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 04, 2020, 03:26:56 PM
Thanks Chris, the shades on the ballast was accidental, I gave the track another coat of sleeper grime after ballasting, and I have just added more ballast after to fill any gaps. Ballasting the viaduct has been problematic, after pulling the old track up it was not even.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 04, 2020, 03:29:36 PM
It looks realistic though to me
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 04, 2020, 10:19:26 PM
Hi everyone, I have been sorting the track again tonight, it is important to finish it has soon as. First I have worked on the track join from the viaduct, I had put a mix of ballast magic right upto the track join, but of course it needs to be free so I placed a piece of plastic in the track join then sprayed the ballast with water. To be sure I have also used a eye dropper with a mix of pva and water and a drop of washing up liquid and gone over the joint with that too, I also went over any troublesome spots on the viaduct and at the end.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-040720221605.jpeg)
I also have two new additions to my stock thanks to a friend on here, you know who you are. One of the coaches is "E"region which will go with a few others I also have. I have a few "E" region coaches so I can make up a train passing through to Blackpool from Yorkshire, I just need a Mk1 break/second/ coach eastern region to make up a full train. I also have a couple of "W" region coaches but I think I will just disguise the numbers on those with some appropiate dirt.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-040720221902.jpeg)


Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Newportnobby on July 05, 2020, 10:45:51 AM
To be sure I have also used a eye dropper with a mix of pva and water

I just need a Mk1 break/second/ coach eastern region to make up a full train.

Have you suddenly gone Irish, Chris? :confused1:

PM sent about the coach ;)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 06, 2020, 11:07:33 PM
I have not done a lot yesterday, I was busy with a computer problem. I like playing computer games, I have played some for years I find it keeps my reaction times up to the mark. Anyway I saw a game I like going cheap on Steam so I bought it for about £12. I was into the game with having played about six hours and the sound packed in, can I get it working again......
Anyway re the railway, tonight I have tidied up around the track ballasting making sure there is no loose ballast. I then planted a few small trees and shrubs on the hill, then I made a start on painting the Pine trees. I had some difficulty getting the colour right, I started to paint them and soon realised they looked a bit pink. I had used burnt umber but it was well too brown so added white then I added some gray still not right so added some black, that looks better. I will try dry brushing some lighter colour down the trunks tomorrow, I have plenty of pics of pine trees to compare too. One thing I noticed from my pics they have a lot of branches low down the trunk with no foliage so I have cut some of the branches to suit on the Woodland Scenics pine trees along with twisting them a bit and trimming the plastic too. Hopefully tomorrow I can make a start on making a forrest, so pics to follow.
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Milton Rail on July 07, 2020, 08:18:46 PM
I have to hand it to you Chris, you have have fairly cracked on!  I dunno, I turn my back for a minute and half a layout has appeared!  The scenery looks brilliant, really good blend of hillside & rockface, same thing I am trying to recreate ... hope I am as successful as you have been.

I made the mistake of putting "Trainstation 2" app onto my phone when I was in hotel isolation prior to mobilising offshore .... am losing a lot of productive time! 

Seriously though, the layout is coming on a treat

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: lil chris on July 07, 2020, 10:11:31 PM
Thanks Andrew for the kind comments, I keep getting distracted with the computer game and getting it to work on the computer or I would have done more on the layout. I ended up buying some new wireless headphones and they are working.
I am working on the trees again tonight, a bit more painting, I want to create a forrest against the back board. I am undecided how to fit the trees, I could just drill holes there is no track under where they are being placed. I might use the bases for them and fit them in place with some filler then fit the trees into the bases after. It will mean going over some of the flock that is there but I am not too worried about that but it will make sure the trees are verticle unless I want otherwise. I have also fitted a few small trees on the side of the hill plus work around the right tunnel behind the wall.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-070720220828.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/96/1784-070720221009.jpeg)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: Nbodger on July 07, 2020, 10:45:27 PM
Chris,

That hillside is looking really good, if you stopped playing computer games it could look a lot better  ;D

No seriously is does look very good

Stay safe

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Irwell Valley Railway
Post by: dannyboy on July 08, 2020, 09:12:11 AM
Starting to look quite realistic Chris. Trees are really going to bring it to life.  :thumbsup:
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal