N Gauge Forum

Your Layout and Models => Layout Construction => Topic started by: colpatben on February 03, 2019, 05:06:35 PM

Title: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: colpatben on February 03, 2019, 05:06:35 PM
I have over the past years put together several small boards to demonstrate various aspects of DCC control such as Turnouts, Signals, Programming etc. my thoughts have now turned to building a working layout that demonstrate how all of these various components are joined together. To this end I produced the following for consideration by my Wednesday evening DCC Group.

Scope

1)   It will be in N Gauge so that the completed project baseboard could be taken out for demonstration. This initial design is 800mm x 1300mm. we would run short 2 car DMUs or Push/Pull 0-6-0 two car sets of similar.

2)   The build of non DCC related items such as baseboard, buildings and scenery could be done by volunteers outside of the normal Wednesday meetings thus saving the real work of DCCing for some of our normal meetings.

3)   It will be complete with Block detection so that true computer control would be implemented, and extended to automatic control including ‘Hands Off’ Timetable running. Giving us the opportunity to discover and learn how various software packages handle those tasks involved.

4)   It should be ‘See through’ so that all of the active DCC components are viewable. It may be necessary to mount some of the electronics above the board. 

It will not be all time consuming and I would expect the normal DCC discussions and demonstrations will run concurrently, so that new members or those with no interest in a project would not feel left out, I hope that there will be something for everyone.

I do not intend for us to be a layout building group as we have enough of those at the moment, I see this as a chance to bring together many of the concepts that I have presented in the past.

Following is a track design that will give us the scope for all of the above along with initial costing.

Costs could be reduced if any of you have leftover materials or parts from your own projects that you may wish to sell at a lower price or donate FOC.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/1337-030219164402-73776667.jpeg)

End

Following some discussion we settled on this broad outline.

The baseboard will be a ply frame 1350mm * 800mm *150mm deep with inset high density foam top covered with 3mm cork tiles.

Could I ask those of you who have a hatchback type car to measure the load length to ensure that should you wish to transport it that the 1350mm length will fit.

This construction I will enable us to mount the turnouts and their actuators (motors) onto the tiles before assembly onto the baseboard.

This means that they can be wired and tested by members at home before installation!

As I want some of the actuators to be visible these turnouts can be mounted onto 3mm clear Lexan which is easier to work than Perspex.

This way of showing the workings will unfortunately mean that we will be unable to use Kato track because all if their ‘workings’ are hidden inside of the turnout.

Therefore we will use Peco Code 55 track and Turnouts.

What would normally be the Back Scene board will be used the mounting board for all of the electronics making them fully visible to all.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/1337-030219164406-737901876.jpeg)

In front of that will be a removable back scene.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/1337-030219164410-737912229.jpeg)

The next phase will be to get some materials together.
Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: Railwaygun on February 03, 2019, 06:36:38 PM
as this is a DCC demonstration / testbed, would it be better in the DCC thread?? more offers there?
Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: njee20 on February 03, 2019, 06:42:24 PM
Sorry, I don’t understand, are you building this, or asking for help building it, or offering it is an ‘open source’ design for others to copy?
Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: colpatben on February 03, 2019, 08:23:35 PM
Sorry, I don’t understand, are you building this, or asking for help building it, or offering it is an ‘open source’ design for others to copy?
OK I thought my preamble regarding the intent was that this is a Bexhill MRC project, I cut and pasted several emails to our club members and maybe in context some of my thoughts have been missunderstood by Forum members.

So yes we are building this as an exercise for our (BMRC)  DCC Group, and I will share our progress here.

When completed perhaps I will offer to visit local clubs with this portable demonstration to give other railway modellers an insight as what DCC is all about.

Sorry for any misunderstanding I may have caused  :-[
Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: colpatben on February 03, 2019, 08:32:56 PM
as this is a DCC demonstration / testbed, would it be better in the DCC thread?? more offers there?
Absolutly,  but I thought that I could start under this Thread whilst initial contruction is underway, and then ask to shift it to DCC Thread at a suitable time.
However if a Mod would like to move it now then I am agreable.

Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: njee20 on February 03, 2019, 08:57:01 PM
Fair enough, it was comments about measuring the size of boot openings in hatchbacks that confused me!

Sounds interesting though.
Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: colpatben on February 04, 2019, 07:28:13 AM
No.02 4/02/19

Baseboard underway 5.5mm ply supporting 600mm*600mm*50mm foam tiles.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/1337-040219072527-73799997.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/1337-040219072531-738042142.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/1337-040219072535-738052162.jpeg)
Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: colpatben on March 18, 2019, 12:41:20 PM
All of the track is laid.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/1337-180319123116-750821841.jpeg)

Underside

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/1337-180319123116-75082836.jpeg)

The ‘See Through’ turnout motors

Tortoise Top.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/1337-180319123120-750891236.jpeg)

Bottom

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/1337-180319123118-75088552.jpeg)

Peco Top.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/1337-180319123120-75090756.jpeg)

Bottom with frog polarity switch.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/1337-180319123118-750882297.jpeg)

This is how I envision the depiction of wiring detail to look on the back of the layout.

Digitrax BDL168

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/1337-180319123642-75092540.jpeg)

DAC20

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/1337-180319123642-75092308.jpeg)

This will be the actual wiring detail.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/75/1337-180319123853-750941686.jpeg)

Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: colpatben on April 23, 2019, 05:11:51 AM
DR4088LN-CS Excellent

A change of detector.

The original plan had been to use a Digitrax BDL168.

Having bought both a Digitrax PR4 and a BDL168 and spent several days building a loconet terminator it soon became apparent that this configuration was too complicated with regard to RailSync together with the lack of Command Station ground connection hich needed a pseudo ground circuit!

I finally decided that a better way to go was to change to the Digikeijs DR4088LN-CS and a RR Circuits Locobuffer USB.

As neither of these two devices will act as a loconet terminator I also purchased a Möllehem Gårdsproduktion Loconet Terminator.

Having wired it all together on a small test board the DR4088LN-CS worked first time without any problems and at less than half the cost of a BDL168 for the same number of Inputs (16).

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/76/1337-230419050644-764761856.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/76/1337-230419050644-764761535.jpeg)

Colin
Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: Newportnobby on April 23, 2019, 09:41:45 AM
Is a loconet terminator anything like a Skynet terminator? :dunce: :confused2:
Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: Bealman on April 23, 2019, 10:04:52 AM
Think Arnold has competition.... depending on which Arnold...
Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: colpatben on April 23, 2019, 01:56:10 PM
Is a loconet terminator anything like a Skynet terminator? :dunce: :confused2:

I'll be back  8)

Later, much much later........

Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: daversmth on April 27, 2019, 08:45:28 AM
Hi,

I  am building a layout whose focus is automated computer control.
My thread is here.

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34463.60 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=34463.60)

Happy to discuss or demonstrate to anyone who is interested.

Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: colpatben on April 28, 2019, 04:31:12 AM
@daversmth (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5576) thanks for the link.

The wiring has progressed sufficiently that I can run the first test loco:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/76/1337-280419042141-76718782.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/76/1337-280419042138-767161946.jpeg)


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/76/1337-280419042138-767161398.jpeg)



This gives a first impression as to what I hope to achieve with regards to having all of the electronics on show.

I have had to temporarily remove the reversing loop and the white lead across the layout powers the two isolated turnouts.

At 45 seconds the RocRail computer screen can be seen with detector blocks illuminating although I need to cut in some track breaks to prevent backfeeds to adjacent detector sections .


Title: Re: Bexhill MRC DCC Group Automation Demonstration Layout.
Post by: colpatben on July 05, 2019, 12:02:07 PM
Reversing loop update.

The reversing loop which is controlled by a Tam Valley Dual Frog Juicer is split into two separate sections with each section occupancy detection feedback using sensors from different manufacturers.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/1337-050719114838-791542367.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/1337-050719114838-79170977.jpeg)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/1337-050719114837-79154975.jpeg)

The upper section occupation feedback is by using an NCE BD20 current sensor. The section feed wire from the Frog Juicer is passed through the sensing coil three turns (to increase sensitivity) to the section rail.

The track break separating the two reversing loop sections can just be seen one sleeper below the green wire track connection from the BD20.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/1337-050719114840-791721097.jpeg)

The lower section feedback is by using Heathcote Electronics IR-DOT detectors. You always need two detectors per section to trigger ‘Enter’ & ‘In’ events for the computer control software.

The IR-DOT detectors are set up in different modes to best represent the most common form of installation.

The top sensor has both the Transmitter and Receiver in the same plane beside each other much as they would be if they were hidden below the baseboard and fitted side by side between the track rails. The detector is triggered when any part of the train reflect back the transmitter to the receiver.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/1337-050719114839-791711293.jpeg)

The bottom sensor is positioned with the Transmitter and Receiver opposite each other across the track. The detector is triggered when any part of the train blocks the path between the Transmitter and Receiver.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/1337-050719114839-791702066.jpeg)

In the final picture is a Tam Valley Mono Frog Juicer which is changing the frog polarity for the turnout switched by the adjacent Peco PL-11 side mounted point motor.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/1337-050719114840-791731792.jpeg)