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Your Layout and Models => Layout Construction => Topic started by: DarrwestLU6 on October 29, 2018, 11:57:09 PM

Title: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on October 29, 2018, 11:57:09 PM
OK folks, it's time to start a thread and get your advice as construction starts in earnest.

I've built a base board that was originally to go on a table top but I now need to convert to a folding, wall mounted design. So I need to do two things:
1) Brace the baseboard with some frames to give it rigidity (I'll research the other topics on the Forum to get tips here,  then post some pictures and diagrams of what I'm planning); and
2) Create the tilting mechanism.

For the latter, I built a model in Meccano  - see the video: https://youtu.be/688-0mB1jv4 (https://youtu.be/688-0mB1jv4) This shows how it should fold up and down.

I have now drawn up some plans (side on) for how big this would be in real life, and am about to source the bits I need (bearings, pivots). I think I might build this in wood as I won't have access to any welding gear! 
   
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/6745-291018235647.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70753)

I envisage building a frame in timber, which I can then box in with some pretty oak veneer, and is screwed solidly to a wall on the left side. The long black arms at the top of the diagram connect from a central pivot at top of the frame to a pivot point on the layout, and they hold the weight. The arms shown red, at the bottom of the diagram, pivot at the bottom of the frame and are connected to the back of the layout. This should make the folding up and down nice and smooth. I anticipate perhaps I'll need some folding legs at the front also to hold the layout in position and for stability. I'll probably need some counterweights somehow, perhaps pulleys and weights on wires? I'm open to ideas!

The right hand diagram show dimensions in millimetres using a free CAD program (Solid Edge 2D). The left hand diagram shows different positions of the layout baseboard as it folds- this should all make sense if you see the video. 

All suggestions welcome. I'll add more photos and diagrams as I proceed.


Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Snowwolflair on October 30, 2018, 12:48:35 AM
The problem you will have is that its fine in 2D but in 3D if the two sides are not exactly aligned when you move it it will immediately twist and sheer or jam.

Can I recommend a rope on both sides pulling up together to move it and better still wind them simultaneously with a hoist removing the need for a counter balance.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: GreyWolf on October 30, 2018, 06:37:16 AM
My immediate thought was something along the lines of a folding chair. We have wooded garden chairs that fold quite well for storage ... a bit of research on google might give you some ideas?

Cheers  :beers:
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Stuart Down Under on October 30, 2018, 07:40:53 AM
Wow! That mechanical stuff is scary!

I think that Snowwolflair is correct - you need to be sure that the baseboard is rigid enough, and/or the two side mechanisms work in perfect harmony. Rigidity will only come with a deeper framework - ply girders? On the up side, fantastic access to the underside of the baseboard. I have a stiff neck from lying under mine, trying to wire up the droppers and point motors!

 :beers:
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: AlexanderJesse on October 30, 2018, 09:13:42 AM
No chance to put 4 pulleys into the ceiling and hoist the layout into the air, when you need the space it usually occupies?
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 30, 2018, 09:55:16 AM
No chance to put 4 pulleys into the ceiling and hoist the layout into the air, when you need the space it usually occupies?

Haha - that's what I had when I was a young lad in the 70s, I had a 6x4 N layout that hoisted up to the ceiling. Still got the pulleys somewhere.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on October 30, 2018, 10:52:02 AM
The problem you will have is that its fine in 2D but in 3D if the two sides are not exactly aligned when you move it it will immediately twist and sheer or jam.

Can I recommend a rope on both sides pulling up together to move it and better still wind them simultaneously with a hoist removing the need for a counter balance.

Snowwolflair - Very good point about the twisting and jamming, so yes a hoist seems an excellent plan. I will try and draw this out tonight (working today but Wednesday-Friday on holiday so I can put in some hours on the build).

StuartDownUnder - I agree, I think I need a stiff frame and had some ideas about the support arms which I will draw up also tonight and see what you think.

AlexanderJesse &  ntpntpntp - Sadly the pulleys and "raise to the ceiling" idea is out as it is our main hallway where the layout is housed. It has to fold up onto a cupboard on the wall. (Although that would have been much easier!)
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Snowwolflair on October 30, 2018, 10:57:52 AM
Strong and rigid does not mean weight, think box girder bridge.  A very strong layout can be made with 5mm ply if it is cross braced.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: The Q on October 30, 2018, 10:59:15 AM
Personnally | think you've gone too complicated, a simple bottom hinge with support stays to the top would do.


Mind you I think It should be built, Diagon alley...
Cloak, broomstick ... gone...
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: AlexanderJesse on October 30, 2018, 12:18:17 PM
Personnally | think you've gone too complicated, a simple bottom hinge with support stays to the top would do.


Mind you I think It should be built, Diagon alley...
Cloak, broomstick ... gone...

I would say so too...

bottom hinges... and pulleys from the top to lift the layout. More stability, because you can use several hinges on the "lower" edge.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: The Q on October 30, 2018, 01:00:29 PM
I would use a piano hinge on it
A pack of 10 1Metre piano hinges from Tool station is under £20
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Pjlons83 on October 30, 2018, 01:19:15 PM
Personnally | think you've gone too complicated

I was thinking the same but there's nothing wrong with that if you enjoy an engineering challenge.

To the OP; have you considered something "off the shelf"? I'm not suggesting this specific one but there's lots of options if you can find something close to your required dimensions.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/6379-301018131712.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70777)
This one is from a site called www.shaperinage.com (http://www.shaperinage.com) but there are lots of others and this particular one seems quite expensive.

edit: I've just spotted the dimension on your original post so it may be a bit big for off the shelf.... worth seeing how they work though? 
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on October 31, 2018, 12:12:41 AM

bottom hinges... and pulleys from the top to lift the layout. More stability, because you can use several hinges on the "lower" edge.


I have seen the light - I put the hinged idea to Mrs DarrWest and she likes the idea of a box on the wall , raised off the ground, so we can get to the floor. We do have enough room to do a simple box hinged at the back edge of the layout. It will still need to stand clear of the back wall by about 30cm to allow for scenery etc so I will need to put a sturdy frame together, that is solidly fixed to the wall (it is brick, thankfully, not plasterboard). I'll knock up some diagrams tomorrow for this proposed frame. In the meantime you can see the size of the hallway and layout in these pictures.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/6745-311018001020.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70809)

The snooker cues markout the width it would be....as a rough guide. I just need to decide what height I should have the baseboard off the floor. I am thinking perhaps 84cm /33 inches - 92cm / 36 inches from floor to top of baseboard.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/6745-311018001857.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=70810)
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on November 14, 2018, 08:03:31 PM
Sorry not been on lately to update progress, got very busy at work, but more news and pictures soon!
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Stuart Down Under on November 15, 2018, 02:08:48 AM
Yes, as a retired bloke, I really don't know how I had time to go to work!  :confused2:
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on December 31, 2018, 01:29:09 PM
Firstly I hope you all had a nice Christmas break and got some fun with the modelling if you had any spare time!

AT LAST, I have now made some progress on the layout over the Christmas holidays and built a frame, mounted on battens, that will hold the layout slightly away from the wall and then can be folded up or down.

Step one - get the battens and cantilevers up with some chunky angle brackets:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/6745-311218130640-727891184.jpeg)

Step two - fit the cross beam, sits on the cantilevers, this will hold the weight of the board and provide the support for the hinges...here you see it passing it's first load test! 
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/6745-311218130839-727902348.jpeg)
(The second load test was to have a 50+kg son lie down on the beam and it took that too!)

Step three - now I am fitting 2x1 inch battens roughly every 12-14 inches across the baseboard to provide support (this is all about face and being retro-fitted as originally the layout, dear reader, was going on to a table top).
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/6745-311218130950-727911802.jpeg)

Next step - I'll fit a few diagonal braces in 2x1 also to provide stiffness and ensure no twisting! (Allows me to play with a borrowed Mitre saw for a bit).

Once this is all done and ready, I am going to attempt to position the board up against the beam that you see in the pictures. The board edge has a long plank on one side that I think will hold the weight of the board, and I will screw this to the beam using six heavy duty ball bearing hinges designed to hold fire doors (which are pretty heavy) so should do the job.

I also need to build some fold down legs for the board, I will show you progress over the break as I get on! I've also ordered a pulley system with counterweights (designed for sash windows) so that it will ease the lifting and lowering of the board.

More pictures soon. Happy New Year to you all!  :wave:
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on December 31, 2018, 04:11:07 PM
I always fit the cross battens when I know where the points will be above as, if fitting under board point motors, there's nowt so infuriating as finding a batten just where you want the motor to go.
Don't ask how I know :no:
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on December 31, 2018, 04:44:46 PM
I always fit the cross battens when I know where the points will be above as, if fitting under board point motors, there's nowt so infuriating as finding a batten just where you want the motor to go.

Thanks NPN - an excellent tip, I will mark crosses on the back of the baseboard with a marker pen where I PM's might go, THEN fix the battens! Good advice as ever.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 10, 2019, 08:45:41 PM
Hoorah - Some real progress over the Christmas break!

So after Christmas festivities I managed to get some cross braces put on the board (itís heavy chipboard but that was legacy from the table top idea of the past) using 1x2 timber across and diagonal.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/6745-100119202925-73053469.jpeg)

I then got the legs on and lo and behold a level railway in both directions! (Happy camper)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/6745-100119203435-730551113.jpeg)

However, after a few days I notice a bit of bending of the 1x2 timbers due to the weight of the stuff above, so enhance this with some 5*3/4inch boards around all the edges of the board, to provide stiffness Ė this did the trick without being too heavy Ė and some 90 degree metal support to hold it all together. No way now that was going to bend!
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/6745-100119202924-730451684.jpeg)

So now, I have the railway on the wall and it folds up neatly. I put in a batten each side with a felt pad so it can lean against the back wall, and put some bolts on it, so it wonít move accidentally!
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/6745-100119202936-73054491.jpeg)

Now to do:
1 Ė reposition the legs slightly so they fold down completely flat within frame (ooops!)
2 Ė add some counterweights (I bought some steel sash window weights to counterweight the board, this will make lifting it easier).

Youíll see this in coming posts! But I have a business trip to India next week, so wonít be back online for a bitÖ
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on January 10, 2019, 09:45:35 PM
That should withstand a direct hit from a Cruise missile and, after lowering/raising it a few times I can imagine you'll be entering for 'The World's Strongest Man'. ;)
However, it all looks hugely impressive in that second pic and I look forward to seeing more.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Bealman on January 10, 2019, 09:50:39 PM
Everything he said.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: AlexanderJesse on January 11, 2019, 09:48:16 AM
The next logic step would be to add some hinges at the top of the wall and add a box to it.

When the layout is folded down that box is folded up and contains the lights. When the layout is folded up, the box is lowered and protects the layout from dust. Plus a nice piece of art on the box to "hide" on the box ... to keep the govenrment happy...
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 11, 2019, 12:31:56 PM
The next logic step would be to add some hinges at the top of the wall and add a box to it.

When the layout is folded down that box is folded up and contains the lights. When the layout is folded up, the box is lowered and protects the layout from dust. Plus a nice piece of art on the box to "hide" on the box ... to keep the govenrment happy...

@AlexanderJesse (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6316)  - I was thinking along those lines. I like the box idea but can't hinge it from the top of the wall as there is a light fitting it will hit in the middle of the ceiling. However, what I am contemplating is a box arrangement with roller blind as shown in the picture below. I reckon if I have a 15cm clearance at the top for a pelmet I can fit in a roller blind and hide some nice spotlights in there. Would you go for mains powered LED flood beams? Warm white?

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/73/6745-110119122653-730671282.jpeg)
(I haven't shown the underside of the box in this drawing but will rig something up, maybe a hinged access panel so I can pop up in there behind the layout and do some track cleaning if I need to.)

Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: AlexanderJesse on January 11, 2019, 01:49:08 PM
I was thinking about a box because of the dust-protection that it would give.

About the lighting... Maybe a mix might be the way to go...

For detail work cold white might be better
For running the layout warm white is preferrably because it is more pleasing for the eyes.
For special photographs a programmable RGB might be interesting as it would allow you the create special effects

But I must confess: I have no experience with the light-aspects for layouts. These are just the thoughts I would consider for a layout.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on December 27, 2019, 06:35:52 PM
Some progress on new track down to my new track design:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/6745-271219183432.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=85475)

I have a few days to play over the Christmas break, more photos as this develops!
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 27, 2019, 07:05:33 PM
Hope that piece of track is not near the baseboard edge darren.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 01, 2020, 12:15:49 PM
First rule of track laying - it never goes quite how you expect it to!

I had some fun with this over Christmas. I got some work done on the layout, which I do find very relaxing. Itís my new station throat in the approach to my fictional Kingís Cross, lots of pointwork and this is new since I built the baseboard. So of course, some points land exactly where there is a batten underneath. So I had to get creative. I thought this might be interesting for readers to see how I got around some of the problems!

And inevitably Chris and @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264)  it is near the baseboard edge - but I plan to have some scenic backdrop there to stop any precious rolling stock falling to the floor.

What I decided on doing was use the Peco edge mounted point motors, and where necessary, some wire in tube to get to a point in the middle of the tracks. You can see this in the picture below in the point at the top of the photo. Having tested this, I realised that I needed to raise up the points shown at the bottom of the picture some more, (this is the baseboard egde) so that the point motor arm would engage properly with the stud on the point tie-bar and not jump off, so I added another layer of cork underlay, which means a gentle gradient. This is not so bad as it will help me later, I can build in a natural downhill slope to some coal sidings to keep the wagons in place.

Another spin off issue was that I couldnít squeeze in all the point motors exactly where I wanted them so had to move some of the points to the right by about 15mm, no big issue but just goes to show you canít foresee everything!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/6745-010120120618.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=85657)
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 01, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Happy new year . How do you plan to build the scenic backdrop ? I am using battens with a board and a backscene glued on.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on January 01, 2020, 05:24:35 PM
@DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745)
I may preach it but can't necessarily practice it owing to limited space :-[
(Fiddle yard right, what will be scenic side left)
https://flic.kr/p/2i7AHBW
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 01, 2020, 05:30:06 PM
Thanks thats what i was thnking mick
. Will give darren some ideas
 
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 02, 2020, 04:59:39 PM
Happy new year . How do you plan to build the scenic backdrop ? I am using battens with a board and a backscene glued on.

Happy New Year Chris! Yes, I think some hardboard with battens, and a backscene glued on, is the way to go. I might throw in some low relief factory buildings/warehouses with the ability to put some soft lighting in some of the windows as special effects for an evening scene.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 02, 2020, 05:01:41 PM
@DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745)
I may preach it but can't necessarily practice it owing to limited space :-[
(Fiddle yard right, what will be scenic side left)
https://flic.kr/p/2i7AHBW (https://flic.kr/p/2i7AHBW)

Thanks Mick - the  clear perspex front is a good idea, I may well do that as a "wrap around" front and first foot or so of the front edge of my layout. I trust the conservatory is no longer misbehaving? It looks nice and clean and tidy in there from the photo!
Darren
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 02, 2020, 05:56:59 PM
Was thinking low relief arches , units to resemble businesses within the arches. Hedges hill layout springs to mind . Next week.
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 02, 2020, 06:34:55 PM
Update
Back to my job today after the holidays, so no modelling time, but I did have time this evening to put up some photos of progress, and welcome any comments.

Lower level layout
Here's the diagram of the lower level of the layout:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/6745-020120181024.jpeg)
Work is going on right now on the left hand side and bottom of this diagram to lay the points and track for the station approach, crossings, and loco servicing area, and some tweaks to the hidden sidings at the top of the diagram (which will be behind a backscene). There's also a point at the top of the diagram which links to an off baseboard fiddle yard - which I've not wired in yet, you'll see I've laid this out on a photo below so I know where to put it!

Method
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/6745-020120171651-857032399.jpeg)

I invested in a Dremel handheld tool a few months ago (for less than the price of a second hand loco) which can do cutting, grinding and reaming. Last week I bought for a few quid a set of 1mm thin cutting discs, these are very handing for cutting track in tight spots. Also shown - a cheap a set of the tracksetta tools and my trusty Peco track gauge. 75% of the points are down now, although Iím also retro-fitting point motors. Iím using flexi track between the point on some nice sweeping curves, being careful to make the minimum a 12inch radius. Depending on the section of track I might use one or two tracksettas on one curve and ďblendĒ. Now more track is down, thereís not enough space for me to use a track cutting hand saw without the risk of nicking another rail with it, so I pin down the track and measure exactly where I need to cut the flexitrack for it to fit between each set of points, mark it with the Sharpie pen exactly where I need to cut it. I then unpin the track from the curve a bit, move the track away from the point then cut with the cutting disk. I use a fine fine to remove any burrs then pop on the rail joiners. Iím very pleased with the results so far and would recommend this approach, much better than my earlier efforts to lay smooth curves just by eye!

Electrics
Iím being careful to solder drop wires on underneath the track as I go along:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/6745-020120171650-8570342.jpeg)

Hidden storage loops
Hereís a view from the left side of the layout. Here you get a peek of the ďbehind the scenesĒ hidden tracks to be Ė there will be a tunnel starting just to the left of the point at the bottom of the picture, into the backscene. The backscene will run roughly parallel with the left side edge. The left hand (back) edge of the layout will need an edge strip here to stop any stock falling off!
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/6745-020120171640-857011647.jpeg)

Upper Level work to do
Here you can see I decided to add in some catch points  at the entrance to the upper station, which is after a helix and incline, to stop any stock fouling the main line. I think Iíll need to cut these into place using the Dremel method, plus I need to wire in a dead section with some IRJís, and add another Dapol (working) home semaphore in line with the existing one.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/85/6745-020120171634-856961534.jpeg)

Once I've got this lot down I'll post some panaramic shots of the layout so you can see more.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 02, 2020, 06:39:39 PM
All looking good. Will comment later / tomorrow. Are those the signals which i recommended ?
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Train Waiting on January 02, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
This is looking absolutely fabulous.

Great stuff!

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on January 02, 2020, 08:52:24 PM
@DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745)
I may preach it but can't necessarily practice it owing to limited space :-[
(Fiddle yard right, what will be scenic side left)
https://flic.kr/p/2i7AHBW (https://flic.kr/p/2i7AHBW)

Thanks Mick - the  clear perspex front is a good idea, I may well do that as a "wrap around" front and first foot or so of the front edge of my layout. I trust the conservatory is no longer misbehaving? It looks nice and clean and tidy in there from the photo!
Darren

Hi Darren - the perspex is just some cheap plastic sheeting from the local builders merchant and it goes by the name of Liteglaze. I do actually have some decent proper stuff to apply when I'm further along with things. The conservatory is fine, thanks, but the polythene sheet I used to keep drips off the layout is still there and used as a dust sheet (must get my money's worth out of it :D)
Oh, and the photo is actually a video but you may have to wait for the 'play' button to come up.
Note the cameo appearance by Hookey at the end. He does like to get his fizzog in any film ::)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 03, 2020, 06:37:11 PM
All looking good. Will comment later / tomorrow. Are those the signals which i recommended ?

Chris - Sure are, I moved the ones in the wrong place and have a spare home semaphore now to put in the right place. I'll do a post of the plans for the coloured light signals later!
Title: Re: Hogwarts - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 03, 2020, 06:42:34 PM
Hi Darren - the perspex is just some cheap plastic sheeting from the local builders merchant and it goes by the name of Liteglaze. I do actually have some decent proper stuff to apply when I'm further along with things. The conservatory is fine, thanks, but the polythene sheet I used to keep drips off the layout is still there and used as a dust sheet (must get my money's worth out of it :D)
Oh, and the photo is actually a video but you may have to wait for the 'play' button to come up.
Note the cameo appearance by Hookey at the end. He does like to get his fizzog in any film ::)

Hi Mick - yes I watched the video now in full and enjoyed the Cameo - he seems quite perturbed he can't get in to play trains!
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 03, 2020, 06:42:46 PM
Cool.kernow are attending stevenage. They will have goodies. I also mark my points on plans and what line they cover eg down fast point A. Speak soon
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 19, 2020, 10:49:44 PM
Hi everyone - just a quick note to say I survived the Philippines business trip, which was a bit exciting given the Mt. Taal Volcano 40km south of Manila blew up just as I arrived! We had planned to climb the crater, and go swim in the lake near the volcano, but decided to go further north instead for safety. Here's a few shots of the trip, as a slight digression from the layout building, hope you don't mind. 

First - Mount Taal erupted on 12 January forming a big cloud of ash and debris - just as I was arriving!
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/6745-190120215706-863742148.jpeg)

So we headed up north to higher and safer places:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/6745-190120215707-863842180.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/6745-190120215710-863881477.jpeg)

With some nice beaches:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/6745-190120215712-86390418.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/6745-190120215710-86388196.jpeg)

Then at the end of the week all was safe and back to downtown Manila:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/6745-190120215714-863921234.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/6745-190120215715-86394549.jpeg)

And for those of you that worry about the wiring on your layouts, one last one Ė here is the local electricity supply!
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/86/6745-190120224202-863972118.jpeg)

Thank you for all your kind words and hope to see you at NGSE!
Darren
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Bealman on January 19, 2020, 11:24:06 PM
Darren's excellent Philippines adventure!  :beers:
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 20, 2020, 02:29:19 AM
That's not fun that rats nest of wiring
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: joe cassidy on January 20, 2020, 11:49:18 AM
Hi everyone - just a quick note to say I survived the Philippines business trip

"business trip" ?

Any vacancies where you work ?
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on January 20, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
Nice pics, Darren.
I'll try to make my wiring a little better than that!!
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on January 20, 2020, 06:28:03 PM
Hi everyone - just a quick note to say I survived the Philippines business trip

"business trip" ?

Any vacancies where you work ?
Of course, I didn't post anything about the boring bits!
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on January 20, 2020, 06:36:14 PM
What track laying is fun and you referred to electrical work darren before I head down and build the townsxape
 I meant we not I.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 10, 2020, 10:49:20 PM
Well it's been a long while since I posted on Hogwarts to King's Cross - due to lots and lots of work (and even longer working days under lock down!). Anyway there's light at the end of the tunnel (excuse the pun!). I can see a nice Easter Weekend spending some time with the family and doing some more on the layout.

I've spent some time tonight on SCARM planning the branch line (this is the easier bit) which leads from the ground level up to a higher level station (Hogsmeade) via a double Helix, which is part hidden in tunnels behind hills/backscene. See diagram below (it shows a bit small on my screen so you might have to double click to see details). There's also a reversing loop built in (also half hidden). I have broken the branch into four signalling blocks, then numbered the points, and decided where to put the signals, and indeed the signal boxes. It's a DC layout and all the track in this section has a single power feed so I need dead sections to isolate trains. In the diagram below, I show each signalling block in a different colour (blue, purple, red or orange) and the dead sections in black. Most of the signals are semaphore and I have Dapol signals in stock ready. The scratchbuild issue will be the H4/H5 bracket (bottom left in the diagram) which is before point P10. I'll have to make that, but want it working so that will be a fun project!

Tomorrow I'll do the same on the ground level - which is a double loop main line but with some complex junctions. Once I've planned all my blocks and dead sections I can then finalise my track laying!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/6745-100420224737.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=90714)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: zwilnik on April 10, 2020, 11:10:50 PM
Is this branch line part also going to fold up like the main section? (if so, that's pretty impressive with a helix)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 11, 2020, 03:10:05 AM
Cannot wait to see this finally .....
 Take off
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 11, 2020, 06:15:02 PM
Is this branch line part also going to fold up like the main section? (if so, that's pretty impressive with a helix)

Yes it does, the whole baseboard is hinged at the back edge and just lifts up. Because it's heavy I have some cantilever weights (as used in sash windows) that balance this out. The branch is built to go ABOVE the ground level tracks. It comes off the main line (double track loop, more on this later) which is at ground level, then slowly gains height as it first winds behind the hills/backscene, (looks like a yellow line on the diagram in previous post) then re-emerges out front (orange line) on the low level loop, about 15mm above ground level (orange line).  Then the train has a choice to go continue for a reversing loop and pop out the way it came in OR crosses the points (shown P12) to the helix (purple line). On the helix there are two full circles (Peco Set Track R2 inner, R3 outer) gaining height to about 12cm above the baseboard before finally coming out on a viaduct as it approaches P10 on the diagram. It can then join an upper loop or go into Hogsmeade station that sits on a board above the hidden tracks below.

Here are a few photos to explain. First the viaduct (with a view of the inner part of the helix in the background):

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/6745-110420180418.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=90787)

This is the only scenic item I've actually completed! It does need the stone coarse to be picked out with a cream paint - that's on the to do list, but I've done the stone colour using a Humbrol enamel. This was built from adapted Ratio viaduct kits to make it curve -  my first go at kitbashing, but I'm quite pleased with it.

The idea with the double helix is that I will hide the back half in some tunnels and hills, so it will look very Swiss Alps rather than UK, but I think that will be fun - and on the hill above all this will sit a model of part of Hogwarts Castle. I have lot's of modeller's licence here as the location is all part of JK Rowling's imagination so I can go to town! (King's Cross and London scenes on the other hand I'll model as 1960's London, so get to indulge the prototypical side there.)

Next shot, you can see how the to be built Hogsmeade station sits above the hidden tracks beneath. So that I can access them if a train derails, or for cleaning the tracks, I have built the station on a hinged section. This is held down by clasps so that it is under a slight tension, then the tracks align perfectly at the join!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/6745-110420180844.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=90788)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 11, 2020, 06:17:31 PM
It's a good representation of glenfinnan. Happy tracklaying
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Stevie DC on April 11, 2020, 06:46:46 PM
Great work! It looks nice and complicated; my kind of layout!  ;)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: AlexanderJesse on April 11, 2020, 06:59:44 PM
Great work! It looks nice and complicated; my kind of layout!  ;)
I would ingenious (some nice ideas there!)  and fresh und a good mixture of fantasy world and prototype world.

 :claphappy: :claphappy: :claphappy:
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 11, 2020, 10:37:57 PM
Great work! It looks nice and complicated; my kind of layout!  ;)

Thanks @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894)  @Stevie DC (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) and @AlexanderJesse (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6316) for the kind comments! Yes, I like complicated, I think it will make it interesting to operate!

Well I got into track laying today but came up with a new idea (when is a layout EVER finished eh?). I think I have been inspired by the very fine EM gauge model of Liverpool Lime Street in Model Rail January 2020 and May 2020 Railway Modeller. I saw in there that there are sometimes THREE tracks between bay platforms, which would serve me well to park carriages. So then I juggled my points around and bit and came up with this idea - see photo...each side of the scisssor crossing are platforms, then you see the three tracks - the top one is a platform, the bottom of the diagram (edge of the layout) can now have a LOVELY LONG PLATFORM and there's a middle track for just shunting and I can park carriages in there also.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/6745-110420220828.jpeg)

The grey card in the photo is the island platform, this will be 45-50mm wide (depending on how much clearance I need for the valve gear of my widest steamer, an old Minitrix 9F, I think they are 12 mm from the centre line of the track! But that's about 22 feet or 6m which feels about right.

This gives me - from the top two suburban platform bays (with the scissors I can get a loco to run-around a 4 coach train fine); third track down would allow a 5 coach train with run around (or 6 without); fourth track down is for shunting/carriages; and finally the bottom track gives me the space to create an express bay with enough room for 8 coaches plus a loco. I am VERY pleased with this as my little layout I thought would never get above 6 coaches, this gives me an excuse to run a few expresses, maybe a rake of Pullmans? Let's face it, an A4 with 8 coaches would look very cool....

Moving on, I realised I could pull this off by replacing a point with a second Peco Double Slip  - now on order from Track Shack, who are saying they still do mail order on their website.  I know they are pricey bits of point work but I think a worthwhile investment given the space saving, and means I can squeeze this in with the existing track work (just) positioned to the left of the existing slip and above the turntable, and use mainly 15" curves to connect it all up (worst case down to 12" radius - which I think my Dapol steamer will live with, as they have a minimum radius R3 curve which is 298mm, 11 3/4 in).

Here's a combined photograph with comments so you can see it laid out.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/6745-110420222331.jpeg)

So I will potter about now doing other bits of track before the new Double Slip arrives....plenty more to do. Will post updates as I go along.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 11, 2020, 11:21:27 PM
Don't forget in steam days .... an inward service needed to be detached so the northbound service could draw clear and the inbound eg london loco nearest the buffers can return for servicing and turning to the shed. Apart from that the 2nd double slip will be a useful addition. Look forward to progress darren
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 14, 2020, 02:24:51 PM
Thanks Chris - yes I thought of that, the new double slip will also connect to the loco area, so locos can access that for water, coal, and turning.

Here's the latest layout plan:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/90/6745-140420142319.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=90994)

I've now got five platform bays but one is for parking coaches, run around etc. This should fit under one arch of the two at King's Cross station. The "London Loop line" is purely fictional but is a link line off the main line just before KX and connecting to other bits of North London (actually NOWADAYS such a link exists as Thameslink trains run through to Cambridge, but this I think is a recent addition?)

Must get back to work now, more tonight!
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on April 14, 2020, 03:37:16 PM
I think this one's going to be FUN! Looks interesting, Darren.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 14, 2020, 03:52:51 PM
It will be mick as I have been to Darren's and yes the plan is interesting operationally  , going to be fun. Cannot wait for progress
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Allen on April 15, 2020, 03:22:10 PM
I'm in awe.... this looks brilliant!
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 16, 2020, 10:48:09 PM
Thank you Mick @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) and @Allen (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=8480) - I am really looking forward to getting this running.

Today's little problem, I have run out of track pins! So no track laying today.

That spared me a bit of time to do more planning this evening. I really like LONG coal trains (all the rage in the 1960s) and wanted to find a way to put in a coal siding, then came up with the idea of a siding with weigh station and some coal chutes that I can argue lead to an basement coal depot under KX station (plausible?). I have a couple of spare points so this works out.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-160420224442.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=91090)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 16, 2020, 10:56:55 PM
Looks good. Now Edmonds, chegwin, john craven, Maggie Philbin. Ah plan looks good. The windcutter train the example im thinking of with a coaling stage. Scalescenes  , scenecraft, osbornes all have a good range
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: degsy_safc on April 16, 2020, 11:28:18 PM

Today's little problem, I have run out of track pins! So no track laying today. But Chris and I are going to do a bit of "swap shop" (anyone out there remember this TV show) he has some spare track pins for me, I have some spare ballast for him!

Hi Darren, I can swap you a bag of PECO SL-14 track pins for 26 cobalt point motors if you have any spare  :hmmm:

Hoping in massive anticipation  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on April 17, 2020, 09:48:31 AM

Today's little problem, I have run out of track pins! So no track laying today. But Chris and I are going to do a bit of "swap shop" (anyone out there remember this TV show) he has some spare track pins for me, I have some spare ballast for him!


Don't forget social distancing. I wonder which hurts most when hurled from 2 metres - track pins or N gauge ballast :hmmm: :D
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 17, 2020, 10:16:23 AM
No we remember. I prefer to call it the 2m  apart rule. Theres a wall to place items and stand back . Cannot remember how long ago I stood in the cricket team slips. A long time ago. Pins hurt the hands ballast goes everywhere if dropped
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 17, 2020, 08:09:46 PM
Onwards and upwards!

Here's today's question. I am building a plug and socket so I can quickly and easily connect my controller to the layout (14 wires into one simple socket). in the picture, the female socket, on the left, I can mount on the layout in a slot, flush mounted, so that's easy. But the male plug, (on the right) I need to build some kind of small stub like housing to put around it and the wires. I am thinking I might need to mount it on a small plastic box, tin or something similar. I can wrap all the wires in a cable tidy, but for the enclosure, I'm scratching my head to think of what might work. Some readily accessible household item....This is a closeup photo but the size is 35mm  x 10mm face size to give you an idea. 

Any suggestions folks?

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-170420195856.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=91137)


Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 17, 2020, 08:19:45 PM
Depends where your siting this eg placing on the layout ? Under a signal box ? Plate layers hut ?
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 17, 2020, 08:24:44 PM
It will be mounted on the edge panel of the layout (not on the layout itself).
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 17, 2020, 08:28:41 PM
On the side of the board ?
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: degsy_safc on April 17, 2020, 08:30:28 PM
Onwards and upwards!

Here's today's question. I am building a plug and socket so I can quickly and easily connect my controller to the layout (14 wires into one simple socket). in the picture, the female socket, on the left, I can mount on the layout in a slot, flush mounted, so that's easy. But the male plug, (on the right) I need to build some kind of small stub like housing to put around it and the wires. I am thinking I might need to mount it on a small plastic box, tin or something similar. I can wrap all the wires in a cable tidy, but for the enclosure, I'm scratching my head to think of what might work. Some readily accessible household item....This is a closeup photo but the size is 35mm  x 10mm face size to give you an idea. 

Any suggestions folks?


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-170420195856.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=91137)

Hi Darren,

How about one of those lawn mower type plugs with the innards removed?

Something like this https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwji9ZPGl_DoAhVDsO0KHWDEB6kYABAGGgJkZw&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAESQOD2bRd_zP0inv6aOvwhhf2lJlcZkFVOgZiVF-GopUSKf8ierIo0fy4YGn6BqHSUb0cL0SV_yxNNyjUZGbACzCo&sig=AOD64_3MUVRr49Mr_OcNfo5nXGMsmr7PlA&ctype=46&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiToonGl_DoAhVORRUIHR24BxcQ9aACegQIDBA9&adurl= (https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwji9ZPGl_DoAhVDsO0KHWDEB6kYABAGGgJkZw&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAESQOD2bRd_zP0inv6aOvwhhf2lJlcZkFVOgZiVF-GopUSKf8ierIo0fy4YGn6BqHSUb0cL0SV_yxNNyjUZGbACzCo&sig=AOD64_3MUVRr49Mr_OcNfo5nXGMsmr7PlA&ctype=46&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiToonGl_DoAhVORRUIHR24BxcQ9aACegQIDBA9&adurl=)

You could then epoxy your plug and socket in each end and leave the female end as a trailing lead and just hook up / unplug when you want to?

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 17, 2020, 08:37:16 PM
Derek - now that is an excellent idea, I will see what I can find online.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 17, 2020, 08:38:07 PM
Banana plug ?
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 20, 2020, 12:55:32 AM
Sunday afternoon was spent on layout building, and very relaxing it was too!

I  purchased some time ago a traverser and glued down tracks - about 40 inches long, managed to get nine tracks on there within the degree of travel.  It sits on a portable picnic table, that folds up flat, then I can store both table and traverser away when the layout if folded up. The fiddle yard sits to the right of the layout and will be hidden behind the right hand backscene.

Today's challenge was to connect it via a removable quarter circle of track - aligned with dowelling and latched down with brass catches - and I built a spur off the back hidden siding to connect this to the layout. Of course (thanks to the guidance of @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264)) I remembered to add a guard from some offcuts of hardboard - so stock does not fall of the back!

Here you can see the work done. I glued the track down on the connecting spur as it is sitting on a bed of hardboard, which is impossible to pin. So the screws you can see in the middle of the track are inserted just to hold the track down whilst the glue dries. I will remove them tomorrow, solder on some leads and then test it! In the bottom photo, you can see the hidden sidings and also the back of the "Upper Loop" built on a flyover, but will all be hidden behind a hill - once I have built it!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-200420004745-91349925.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-200420004748-913531118.jpeg)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-200420004752-913541117.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 20, 2020, 04:18:08 AM
Impressive waY to spend sunday afternoon. Looking good and just how long did that take ?
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on April 20, 2020, 09:51:08 AM
Of course (thanks to the guidance of @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264)) I remembered to add a guard from some offcuts of hardboard - so stock does not fall of the back!


Good man. (And still they scoff.)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 20, 2020, 10:58:14 AM
Impressive waY to spend sunday afternoon. Looking good and just how long did that take ?

Ah, that would be telling, but let's just say afternoon to early evening!
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: AJP on April 20, 2020, 12:11:42 PM
Hi Darren, very impressive, like it a lot, one thing occurred to me though in Kingscross you have the 3 lines with the centre siding, connected by 2 lots of points - what about using a 3 way point in the centre siding connecting to the 2 platforms either side.
Anyway keep up the good work!

Tony
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 20, 2020, 12:25:11 PM
The 3 way point may save space. Track shack look the likeliest source or a certain internet order firm I can think beginning with the letter e.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 21, 2020, 12:08:55 AM
Hi Darren, very impressive, like it a lot, one thing occurred to me though in Kingscross you have the 3 lines with the centre siding, connected by 2 lots of points - what about using a 3 way point in the centre siding connecting to the 2 platforms either side.
Anyway keep up the good work!
Tony

Thank you Tony! I did consider that but a) an order right now might take a few weeks to arrive and b) Iíve been playing around with the spare points I have and moved a few things around, better use of space and will re-use a Y point instead. Iíll post up a revised diagram soon, but hereís the mock up:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-210420000635.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 21, 2020, 12:27:47 AM
That looks neat and just needs pinning.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: AJP on April 21, 2020, 07:24:03 AM
Looks Good to me
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 21, 2020, 12:33:10 PM
Oh Lordy- the new double slip has arrived and they sent Electrofrog. Bit of a baptism of fire as my first electrofrog point!

Iím not too fussed as I was going to switch the power feed depending on the route setting anyway, so kind of makes sense to go with electrofrog- but still I am a little bit daunted. Iím sure I can figure it out Iíll have a little look around on the forum tonight, after work. Back to my conference calls now!

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-210420123232.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=91470)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 21, 2020, 12:35:11 PM
And you needed non electrofrog ?
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on April 21, 2020, 01:03:50 PM
@DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745)
Darren - embarrassingly I've forgotten who did this for me but it might help (attached)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 22, 2020, 08:23:00 AM
Thanks @Newportnobby (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) - I'll take a look this evening.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 27, 2020, 10:51:32 PM
Right - I have had a good look at the wiring now and actually it's not going to be that hard. If you consider that for each half of the diamond all the rails are connected to the same power, which makes sense, and each has it's own feed wire. There are two other leads - one for each frog, which you change the polarity for depending on the route set. I will double insulate both sides of the double slip (so 8 * IRJ in all). So I just need to do a little drawing to figure out all the permutations and I'm sorted.

Sorry no photos this weekend, I did make some more progress on the hidden sidings, but nothing photogenic! More soon.

In other news, I have been researching ways to build the King's Cross station canopy - anyone had any experience with the following?
Ideas are:
1) Scalescenes (download)
https://scalescenes.com/product/r005a-large-overall-roof/ (https://scalescenes.com/product/r005a-large-overall-roof/)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-270420231159.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=91845)

OR
2) N-Scenic Grand Canopy Kit (laser cut card)
https://www.n-scenic.co.uk/collections/n-gauge-buildings-and-structures/products/n-gauge-canopy-station-3-versions (https://www.n-scenic.co.uk/collections/n-gauge-buildings-and-structures/products/n-gauge-canopy-station-3-versions)

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/91/6745-270420231308.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=91846)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 28, 2020, 11:22:44 AM
Number 1 @DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745) looks similar to Barlow's roof at the old st pancras. I would opt for number 2 personally. Compare the two photos to real life snaps. Should know working trains out of both terminii. Both look good . But if costs bother option 1 is okay the glass frontage to me looks good
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on April 30, 2020, 10:18:59 PM
Bit more progress this evening on the hidden sidings round the back. Iíve grown to really love my second hand Tracksetta to get those smooth curves. Here just checking I have enough clearance for some wide valve gear...

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/6745-300420221817.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=92166)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on April 30, 2020, 10:24:05 PM
That's progress
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Jimmy77 on April 30, 2020, 10:45:39 PM
Hi Darren,

Just been catching up on your progress, its coming along very nicely! How long are your platforms going to be? Looks like you would be able to get a fairly long rake in there.

I've seen a couple of layouts with the OO large overall roof, and the end result did look very good.

I'm also planning to use a few double slips, hopefully I can get my head around the wiring too!

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 01, 2020, 12:51:50 AM
The layout @DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745) which @Jimmy77 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2554) maybe referring to is graham ' s southwark bridge of this parish using a peco roof
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 01, 2020, 09:30:35 AM
Ah yes Chris,
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/298-090618115928-662322072.jpeg)
A beautiful layout. I will enquire...
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Jimmy77 on May 01, 2020, 11:03:02 AM
Hi Darren,

That is a good layout indeed, however it was a OO layout Dean Park which uses the scaled up version of the first one that I was thinking of, amongst a few others.

(https://i.imgur.com/NdKv2iV.png)

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 01, 2020, 05:33:22 PM
I think graham used a peco roof.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 01, 2020, 05:35:35 PM
@Jimmy77 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2554) - thanks for the clip looks good.

I also spoke to @GrahamB (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=298) on PM - he used the Peco Products LK-20X Double length overall arched station roof, in OO gauge - here's a nice picture.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/6745-010520173328.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=92201)
 
And here's the original thread: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41540.msg511069#msg511069 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41540.msg511069#msg511069) (thanks @crewearpley40 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3894) for the hint!)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 01, 2020, 05:37:41 PM
@DarrwestLU6 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6745) ALSO search track cleaning under a peco overall roof in that facility
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: GrahamB on May 01, 2020, 06:24:06 PM
Thank you for the kind comments re Southwark Bridge.

I built the overall roof so it could be removed for safe transport and track cleaning purposes. The pillar in each corner was glued to the roof. The pillar location was then marked on the platforms, slightly oversize holes were drilled and copper tube inserted. That means the roof locates correctly every time and doesn't wear the cardboard platforms. The remaining pillars were then glued to the platform. The result being the roof sits correctly every time.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/298-090618115926-6623072.jpeg)

Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 01, 2020, 06:42:10 PM
Graham such a fine structure I remember having the conversation last year and that will help darren in his choice making. Chris
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 01, 2020, 07:16:23 PM
@GrahamB (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=298) - I have a similar issue, the station roof will need to be removable, but in my case this is because the layout is hinged on a back wall for storage and folds up, so there's no headroom for a big roof! So I will do something like you have designed there, a very neat solution.

The question for me is which design looks more King's Cross like?

Here is old King's Cross:
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/6745-010520191307.jpeg)

And here is 2015 King's Cross (I think this shot taken from the footbridge you can see in the photo above):
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/6745-010520191350.jpeg)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 01, 2020, 07:29:00 PM
Right then - my last post before my wife and I go for our evening dog walk, so I'll leave you, my esteemed NGF-ers, to contemplate this one - I think if we look as the roof supports, the N-scenics has an uncanny resemblance to KX - but I'd be interested what you think based on this photo, then compare with above (just imagine it in yellow brick)...

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/6745-010520192113.jpeg)

I also like the arches in the side wall as this suits my modelling only of one the two KX train sheds. On the side facing the middle of the layout, I will have a goods platform and so I can put a canopy on the external wall and a goods bay. On the wall facing the layout edge, this would be the internal wall between the two great canopies...
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 01, 2020, 07:41:20 PM
As I said previously this is more resemblance to what you wish to achieve.  One can always find suitable printed more yellow LX brick and cover. I believe the bricks are a very ascetic yellow clay
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: degsy_safc on May 02, 2020, 12:47:21 AM
Right then - my last post before my wife and I go for our evening dog walk, so I'll leave you, my esteemed NGF-ers, to contemplate this one - I think if we look as the roof supports, the N-scenics has an uncanny resemblance to KX - but I'd be interested what you think based on this photo, then compare with above (just imagine it in yellow brick)...

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/92/6745-010520192113.jpeg)

I also like the arches in the side wall as this suits my modelling only of the two KX arches. On the side facing the middle of the layout, I will have a goods platform and so I can put a canopy on the external wall and a goods bay. On the wall facing the layout edge, this would be the internal wall between the two great canopies...
Hi Darren,

Iíd say the likeness is quite remarkable - even the design of the inner girders is a pretty good match. Like you say change the red brick for sandstone / yellow and youíre onto a winner  :thumbsup:

Cheers Derek
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 02, 2020, 01:30:51 AM
Go with what we discussed last night darren. Should be absolutely fine. The yellow sand clay brick effect will be scalemodelscenery or the right paint. Looking good
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 23, 2020, 01:50:30 PM
Track laying weekend!

Spotted an annoying problem -see photo- I have a double track junction with a diamond crossing and I think the tracks are a tad too close according to my Peco track gauge. I could get away with it but I feel if I have two Minitrix 9F Ďs passing each other I might hit trouble unless I move The crossing down a bit....


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/6745-230520135003.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=94007)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 23, 2020, 03:28:37 PM
What's the remedy ? Move it down a bit
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: GrahamB on May 23, 2020, 04:15:24 PM
You should be using the wider gauge for set track radius curves. The locos should be OK but the carriages might foul each other.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 23, 2020, 04:25:03 PM
Good point graham
 Darren have you a wider gauge to hand ?
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: GrahamB on May 23, 2020, 04:37:11 PM
It's
Good point graham
 Darren have you a wider gauge to hand ?
It's the same gauge. The two closer lugs give adequate spacing for "streamline" and wider radius curves. The two wider lugs give adequate spacing down to 9" radius curves.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 23, 2020, 04:49:45 PM
Graham
 Thanks you can see I just use old fashion methods with track, pencil and run a carriage and a loco and check clearances
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 24, 2020, 03:42:14 PM
You should be using the wider gauge for set track radius curves. The locos should be OK but the carriages might foul each other.
Thanks Graham Iíll check all the curves using the wider lugs, and Iíll use the narrower pair for straights runs.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: exmouthcraig on May 24, 2020, 03:55:12 PM
Darren just caught up with this, that over roof will look fantastic and is presumably a very very good copy if Kings cross.

Have you got it yet??? Be great to see that coming together!!!!
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 25, 2020, 09:43:34 AM
Darren just caught up with this, that over roof will look fantastic and is presumably a very very good copy if Kings cross.

Have you got it yet??? Be great to see that coming together!!!!

Yes it does look like KX doesnít it. I havenít ordered it yet but will do, they are laser cut to order.

I was busy yesterday attaching Peco point motors and switches to one of my slips - I figured there are complex bits of pointwork and fiddly so best dig a hole in the baseboard for these. Iím trying to avoid doing that for all points by using the motors with an extended pin and connect them underneath the board. So far Iíve connected the electro frog but then have the insulfrog one to do! I need to adjust the switches to so they are aligned correctly then tighten up.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/6745-250520094111.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=94114)
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/6745-250520094208.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=94115)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on May 25, 2020, 09:57:27 AM
That is mondays task
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: lil chris on May 25, 2020, 10:23:03 AM
Best of luck setting those switches up for Peco motors, I gave up the swear box was getting full. I like the station building canopy, I fitted my removable canopyís on my old layout using a similar idea ie using tube embedded in the platform.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on May 25, 2020, 02:30:54 PM
@lil chris (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1784) - indeed they are fiddly little whatnots arenít they!

Just to help any modellers in future Iíve posted a little tutorial video on how I got them to work! See this video and thread: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=49702.0 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=49702.0)
I think I might go with PL-13 on the other insulfrog double slip - I donít need to switch any frogs just panel lights! They look a lot more robust!
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on June 01, 2020, 10:53:41 AM
A little bit of progress over the weekend: I cut holes in the baseboard big enough to push through the point motors and attached micro switches:(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/6745-010620104732.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=94645)

That is messy business!

I then relaid the diamond crossing with plenty of space between the double tracks so that I won't get any problems with passing trains. This now has a lovely sweeping curve around the corner (will show you later once I have finished it all)....

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/6745-010620105113.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=94646)

There then ensued some furkling with the exact positioning of the double slip to make sure I could achieve nice smooth curves to the left side of the slip connecting with other point work (not too tight radius - checked out with odd bits of Setrack and/or tracksetta), and still line up with where I need it to go on the right hand side, and still be greater than the minimum clearance on my Peco track gauge.  I might need to chamfer a tiny bit off the turntable edge to provide a good clearance (7mm from the outside rail) but I can live with that. (The top left exit from the slip joins the track above it so there's no problem with that route being close to the track, there will never be two trains on those two tracks at the same time.)

Got there - Finally! See photo:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/94/6745-010620105211.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=94647)

Lessons learnt: with complex trackwork keep checking the clearances and the radii of curves.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 01, 2020, 10:57:07 AM
Take it darren theres plenty of clearance to allow trains to pass safely ? Good job. Time to order the station roof. John dutfield probably has supplies  ken orders pretty quick.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on June 01, 2020, 11:06:25 AM
Take it darren theres plenty of clearance to allow trains to pass safely ? Good job. Time to order the station roof. John dutfield probably has supplies  ken orders pretty quick.

Yes, clearances should be fine, a bit more connecting up of the track to the left to do after work in the evenings this week and I think we are ready for a test run- that will be exciting. And ordering the station roof!
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: DarrwestLU6 on June 01, 2020, 11:09:58 AM
I am now wondering what to do to fill the holes between board and point motor now the point motors are in position - perhaps some Das modelling clay? I can leave it in there overnight and it will set hard. I think I might also screw some supports under the point motors also so they don't wobble about.
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 01, 2020, 11:10:42 AM
Take it darren theres plenty of clearance to allow trains to pass safely ? Good job. Time to order the station roof. John dutfield probably has supplies  ken orders pretty quick.

Yes, clearances should be fine, a bit more connecting up of the track to the left to do after work in the evenings this week and I think we are ready for a test run- that will be exciting. And ordering the station roof!
ken at 01245 494455 for the roof. Go with other ideas given hor the station
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: crewearpley40 on June 01, 2020, 11:14:09 AM
I am now wondering what to do to fill the holes between board and point motor now the point motors are in position - perhaps some Das modelling clay? I can leave it in there overnight and it will set hard. I think I might also screw some supports under the point motors also so they don't wobble about.
  I would place pieces of thick card myself and yes supports under the board. Remember my board with those holes ? Large cardboard now taped and painted over would not notice the drilling work
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Nbodger on June 01, 2020, 11:15:24 AM
Look forward to the test runs, hope all runs well first time

Also canít wait to see the completion of that station roof

Stay safe

Mike H  8)
Title: Re: Hogwarts to Kings Cross - A compact, folding layout
Post by: Newportnobby on June 01, 2020, 11:18:03 AM

There then ensued some furkling

You can't beat a good furkle and, best of all, you can't be arrested for it! :D
I'm now off to thrust my cordwangle.
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