N Gauge Forum

Your Layout and Models => 3D Modelling => Topic started by: Jimmy77 on October 28, 2018, 05:06:06 PM

Title: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on October 28, 2018, 05:06:06 PM
Hello all,

I've been playing around a little with 3D design, and I thought I would share some results. For various reasons I've had to demolish what I had started a few years ago, and I'm now working on a new plan. There isn't much progress to report at the moment as its just a big pile of wood, however in the meantime I thought I would have a play with some 3D designing to hopefully use on the layout once construction starts up again. 

My planned layout (which is still floating about in my head, not down on paper yet) will feature a large-ish terminus station. I've always been a fan of heavy engineering, so I thought I would incorporate some heavy duty hydraulic buffers into the design. This is the result of my first test, and I'm quite pleased with the result, although I will probably tinker a little bit more with the design.

To give a sense of scale, the bolt heads are about a 1/3mm across. I thought about going smaller but my head was frazzled by that point! The design is very loosely based on a few examples such as Glasgow Central.

(https://i.imgur.com/WYJ72GD.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/dlNVdAf.png)

Primer coat still drying

(https://i.imgur.com/V1ybWaM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wHYpwFP.jpg)

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: OwL on October 28, 2018, 05:24:42 PM
These look excellent Jimmy and they are something rarely seen on model layouts yet very much in abundance in real life on the modern network.

I think you should look at making these to sell as I'm sure they would be very much in demand by the modern image modellers.

Thank You.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on October 28, 2018, 11:16:41 PM
Thank you,

Its good to hear feedback as I did wonder if I could make these to sell, but I wasn't sure if there would be any demand. Most of the bits and pieces I'm making for my terminus station are going to be bespoke however I'd like to make some items that could be used universally.

If all goes to plan the centrepiece of the station will be the roof structure. I've made some test pieces to see how they turn out, and last week I decided to stick them all together to see how it could look. The columns are 3D printed, the arches are CNC machined, there will be 10 x these, plus a larger section at the back:

(https://i.imgur.com/64vcX8w.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/zgIt9xV.jpg)

I've settled on this for the final design of the arches:

(https://i.imgur.com/cuEeJDR.png)

Cheers,

Jimmy



Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Bealman on October 28, 2018, 11:21:42 PM
It all looks very impressive indeed.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: dannyboy on October 29, 2018, 12:19:12 AM
That roof structure looks excellent and as for the buffers, you could find yourself with a nice little sideline there!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: 70000 on October 29, 2018, 06:50:04 AM
The buffers look very good indeed.
Not just a product for modellers of the UK scene either, as the Ransomes & Rapier produced ones made it to many corners of the globe....
https://www.flickr.com/photos/72399068@N08/6992201342/in/album-72157628467075583/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/72399068@N08/6992201342/in/album-72157628467075583/)
Three of the main stations in Buenos Aires use their products! (Once, Constitucion and one of the Retiro terminals)
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Bealman on October 29, 2018, 07:37:09 AM
Looks like you're on a winner, Jimmy!
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on October 29, 2018, 08:15:20 AM
Thanks chaps!

And thank you for the photo link, I didn't know who manufactured them, so that's given me a good way to source some more pictures.

I'm hoping to make some other items too, mostly station bits and pieces like signage, ticket machines, seating, vending machines (will be a challenge to shrink a Mars Bar to 1/148 but I'm game!)

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: NGS-PO on October 29, 2018, 08:20:22 AM
Hello all,

I've been playing around a little with 3D design, and I thought I would share some results. For various reasons I've had to demolish what I had started a few years ago, and I'm now working on a new plan. There isn't much progress to report at the moment as its just a big pile of wood, however in the meantime I thought I would have a play with some 3D designing to hopefully use on the layout once construction starts up again. 

My planned layout (which is still floating about in my head, not down on paper yet) will feature a large-ish terminus station. I've always been a fan of heavy engineering, so I thought I would incorporate some heavy duty hydraulic buffers into the design. This is the result of my first test, and I'm quite pleased with the result, although I will probably tinker a little bit more with the design.

To give a sense of scale, the bolt heads are about a 1/3mm across. I thought about going smaller but my head was frazzled by that point! The design is very loosely based on a few examples such as Glasgow Central.

(https://i.imgur.com/WYJ72GD.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/dlNVdAf.png)

Primer coat still drying

(https://i.imgur.com/V1ybWaM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/wHYpwFP.jpg)

Cheers,

Jimmy

These would be perfect for my Glasgow North project, if you were to make these available for purchase Can you advise the length from rear edge to tip of buffers?
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Bealman on October 29, 2018, 08:48:39 AM
I wish you would shrink a Mars Bar to 1/148.... I struggle through the real ones  ;) :beers:
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on October 29, 2018, 09:07:33 AM
will be a challenge to shrink a Mars Bar to 1/148 but I'm game!

The manufacturer doesnít seem to think itís a challenge, which is why I stopped buying them >:(
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Bealman on October 29, 2018, 09:20:11 AM
Actually, I don't struggle through one, but maybe have trouble with the second  ;D

Anyway back to these superb 3D prints!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on October 29, 2018, 09:28:32 AM
I will double check when I get home, but as far as I remember they are 40mm total length (+/- 1mm). How many would you be after?

Maybe I should just make the shell of the vending machine and then carefully slice up a real mars bar and stick the slivers inside  :D
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Bob Tidbury on October 29, 2018, 09:31:48 AM
Years ago there was a firm that made just the buffer and casing in white metal and they were sprung buffers .I never found out the name of the firm as when I bought them they were just in a plastic bag on a stall at a show.
I have no idea where they are now as the terminal station I was building when I lived at my Mums never got finished as other interests came along and I got married and moved out of Mums .
I think Mum gave some of my stuff to one of her friends.
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: njee20 on October 29, 2018, 09:54:10 AM
Are you printing them yourself? Obviously if you're using a service like Shapeways you can just make them available publicly with a mark up as you see fit.

They do look excellent.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: 70000 on October 29, 2018, 10:07:50 AM
Thanks chaps!

And thank you for the photo link, I didn't know who manufactured them, so that's given me a good way to source some more pictures.

Jimmy

A lot of the Rapier records were "dumped" after that nice man, Mr Maxwell, took the company over in the 1980's and then closed it down. However, a number of somwhat disaffected emloyees who were duly made redundant "liberated" a number of things that have latterly been passed on to the Ipswich Transport Museum archives. Not sure how much relates to their hydraulic buffer stops, but I know there is a large scale, working model of a set on display there (which did get handed to Ipswich Museum, officially, when the factory shut).
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on October 29, 2018, 10:48:24 AM
Thanks chaps!

And thank you for the photo link, I didn't know who manufactured them, so that's given me a good way to source some more pictures.

Jimmy

A lot of the Rapier records were "dumped" after that nice man, Mr Maxwell, took the company over in the 1980's and then closed it down. However, a number of somwhat disaffected emloyees who were duly made redundant "liberated" a number of things that have latterly been passed on to the Ipswich Transport Museum archives. Not sure how much relates to their hydraulic buffer stops, but I know there is a large scale, working model of a set on display there (which did get handed to Ipswich Museum, officially, when the factory shut).

Thanks, will need to check that out someday!
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on October 29, 2018, 10:59:41 AM
Are you printing them yourself? Obviously if you're using a service like Shapeways you can just make them available publicly with a mark up as you see fit.

They do look excellent.

Thank you,

Yes I am doing the printing myself with a resin printer, I'm not sure how they would turn out on a regular 3D printer as I don't have any experience with those.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: NGS-PO on October 29, 2018, 12:53:54 PM
I will double check when I get home, but as far as I remember they are 40mm total length (+/- 1mm). How many would you be after?

Maybe I should just make the shell of the vending machine and then carefully slice up a real mars bar and stick the slivers inside  :D

Thank you. That is/would be most helpful.

I would be in the market for eight or ten

Best

Scott
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on October 29, 2018, 08:34:19 PM
Hi Scott,

Total length from tip of buffer to back of unit is 39.92mm. I have sent you a PM too.

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: StufromEGDL on October 29, 2018, 10:41:03 PM
Hi Jimmy;

I'd certainly be in for about 4 sets if the price is right, and you saw fit to make them available to us that are less talented to turn out such fine work.....

Later;
Stu from EGDL
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on November 01, 2018, 03:29:35 PM
Hello all,

Just a quick update, a few of you have expressed an interest in getting hold of a few sets of the buffers, I have made up a small batch to send to you as samples (probably send them out early next week as I'm on nights at the moment).

I tweaked the original design, prepared the files, then realised I made an error so made a small correction. Unfortunately when I was printing I used the original file with the error, so as a result the back end has a slight distortion.

In the "oven":

(https://i.imgur.com/O0dFJuT.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/KtRdGPY.jpg)

I've also been working on another design, this time loosely based on some found at Crewe Station. They have a smaller overall length, but are a little more detailed. I'm yet to do the concrete base, overall length is around 30mm. I'm not sure how the printing will come out, this will need some extra planning!

(https://i.imgur.com/i0a6pUX.png)

(https://i.imgur.com/Fw0vaMx.png)

The design is loosely based on this (courtesy of Wikipedia)

(https://i.imgur.com/33YHLgy.jpg)

Cheers,

Jimmy

Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: 70000 on November 01, 2018, 04:01:35 PM
There are some "preserved" Rapier ones at Bradford Interchange........

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/70/5878-011118155624.jpeg)

They were originally used at Bradford Exchange and were moved to Interchange when that station was constructed. They are no longer in use - replacement stops being provided - but have been preserved in situ there.
Found them whilst passing through Interchange at the end of August this year.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on November 02, 2018, 07:26:43 AM
Thanks for the picture, good to see they haven't just been ripped out and dumped somewhere!

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on November 04, 2018, 07:29:40 PM
Evening all,

I got around to making up some of the Crewe style buffers, I was curious to know how much detail would be retained or lost, but it turned out quite well I think. The only issue I had was some delamination on the back, however this wouldn't be seen most likely as it would be hidden by the platform structure.

(https://i.imgur.com/AP7eEQf.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/CiLka1o.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/H1IDfqq.jpg)

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: OwL on November 05, 2018, 08:14:36 AM
I found a couple of videos in relation to Hydraulic Buffer testing. First video is Argentina where their testing method is slightly more dramatic than the British method:

https://youtu.be/wVtEsNZhhvo

Then we have Hydraulic Buffers being tested in Glasgow central in a much more 'safer' manor:

https://youtu.be/Wt5v1zMb0GE

These videos show why Hydraulic Buffers are utilised and the effectiveness of them.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on November 05, 2018, 10:44:25 AM
Great videos!

I did think about trying to make spring loaded ones with a spring and brass rod, but I think I'll try that another time!

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: dannyboy on November 05, 2018, 01:12:24 PM
Keep us informed if you do try that - I would be interested.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: 70000 on November 05, 2018, 03:17:20 PM
I found a couple of videos in relation to Hydraulic Buffer testing. First video is Argentina where their testing method is slightly more dramatic than the British method:

https://youtu.be/wVtEsNZhhvo (https://youtu.be/wVtEsNZhhvo)


They are the 1927 built Rapier ones at Constitucion station shown in the link on reply #5.

Glad to see that they are testing things properly out there now, as it "hit the fan" back in 2012 following a serious event at Once station...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Buenos_Aires_rail_disaster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Buenos_Aires_rail_disaster)

There were several sets of 1961 built ones there, which had been de-activated by the time I was there in 2007
https://www.flickr.com/photos/72399068@N08/6992201918/in/album-72157628467075583/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/72399068@N08/6992201918/in/album-72157628467075583/)

It seems this had been done, without considering the obvious safety aspects, by persons unknown, which resulted in the many deaths in that crash.
I know the Argentine Government Department investigating the incident contacted us here in Ipswich for any archives we held on the construction/maintenance of such buffers. We hadn't got a lot of info, but we did send them copies of all my detailed 2007 photos, which got a rather amusingly written thank you e-mail thanking "MI-5" for the photographs!!
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: RailGooner on November 05, 2018, 04:53:38 PM
..
 rather amusingly written thank you e-mail thanking "MI-5" for the photographs!!

 :hmmm: Which has me wondering if your username is code(?). Could I interest you in a Martini? Shaken, not stirred?
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: OwL on November 05, 2018, 09:40:38 PM
Reading the above post about the Argentina rail disaster is something I was not aware of and my thoughts of course go out to all the families of the people who were sadly killed.

Also surprised to read to Argentine Govt response believing that MI-5 or 6 (??) were responding! I understand Argentine-UK relations haven't been the best for circa 36 years but just amazed suspicion still exists even on a rather civilian matter concerning a sad rail disaster!

Anyhow, before it goes off topic, spring loaded versions of the model would be excellent, however the 3D versions I already see look superb and a big thanks for developing these buffer stops that are at present a big gap in the N Gauge world.

I wish you every success on the production and I sincerely hope you make a few quid out of it!

Be sure to keep us all posted.

All the best 👍
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: 70000 on November 06, 2018, 07:06:30 AM
Also surprised to read to Argentine Govt response believing that MI-5 or 6 (??) were responding! I understand Argentine-UK relations haven't been the best for circa 36 years but just amazed suspicion still exists even on a rather civilian matter concerning a sad rail disaster!

It was a actually a rather humourous "tongue in cheek" reply from somone with an excellent command of English rather than anything more than that. It was so good, I think it was reproduced in our museum magazine at the time. Whilst there is a fairly small, but very enthusiastic, rail enthusiast presence in Argentina, I think its only the likes of us who would take several photos of buffer stops!
Given the past history of the railways there, UK built rolling stock and infrastructure is still quite prevalent both in preservation and on the current network.
The botched privatisation of rail there, coupled with the somewhat shambolic way they seem to do things, seems to have resulted in lots of records/knowledge being lost , hence their need to contact a museum in the town where the things were made to try and find out more information!

Anyway......back to those superb 3d models......................(can you do them in OO...........? :D)
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on November 06, 2018, 09:59:07 AM
Thanks chaps,

I will take a look at spring loaded ones, will need some more thought, but I think it could be achieved. I'm sending out a few samples today so I'll see how they are received, then I'll get my pencil and ruler out again and get to work  :D

As for doing OO ones I can't see why not, its just a case of adjusting the sizes on the CAD work.

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Shropshire Lad on November 10, 2018, 02:12:12 PM
Jimmy has very kindly sent me a set each of two different buffers to check out. Now I've painted the first stops I'm really impressed with them 😀.
I'll post some pics of the other buffers when I've had chance to paint them!
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/5589-101118140631.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71343)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/5589-101118140711.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71344)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/5589-101118140800.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71345)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/5589-101118140848.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71346)
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on November 10, 2018, 08:12:30 PM
Hi Colin,

Glad they turned up safe and well (another package I sent had a bit of a prang and lost the buffer arms!). Looking forward to seeing how the other ones will look in situ with your rolling stock! How did you find the alignment with your 08's buffers?

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Shropshire Lad on November 10, 2018, 08:40:14 PM
The other set suffered a postal prang resulting in one buffer being snapped off but I'm fairly sure I can repair it!
The buffers were fine height wise but I'll try them with some code 40 track as that is what I'll be using in the station area.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: GroupC on November 11, 2018, 07:48:22 AM
The buffers look great, just what I need. I'd be interested in a few sets!
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: OwL on November 11, 2018, 03:59:32 PM
These look brilliant painted up. It's a shame I haven't got a terminus on my layout (I don't even have a station lol!) But if I had I would have a couple of these on my layout.

Nice to see them so well painted. They look very realistic. Thanks everyone :NGF:
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on December 06, 2018, 02:27:04 PM
Hello all,

Haven't done too much in the way of printing at the moment, its quite cold in the workshop and I'd heard that it can affect the resin during the printing process.

Anyways, my curiousity with all things buffer related hasn't been dampened, in fact I've been working on a scaled up version!  ;D

(https://i.imgur.com/io7bvRQ.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/knFz00q.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/17dG8pX.jpg)

Whilst its still not finished, and needs another coat or two to smooth out the paintwork, its an improvement on what I started with.

(https://i.imgur.com/1kZJs4T.jpg)

Hopefully when the weather improves it'll have a new lease of life as a beer table for the garden!  :beers: :beers:

Cheers,

Jimmy
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: RailGooner on December 06, 2018, 02:33:40 PM
I'll take two please Jimmy. Can you deliver in time for Christmas? :D
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on December 06, 2018, 02:43:27 PM
I think I'd be needing new suspension with two of them in the back of the car  :D

Driving around the concrete-sectioned parts of the M25 with just one in the boot was a bone-shaking experience!
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: StufromEGDL on December 06, 2018, 03:17:37 PM
Hi Jimmy,

Nice full size buffer. I'm on the lookout for similar myself...

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Buffers
Post by: Jimmy77 on December 06, 2018, 03:43:39 PM
Hi Stu,

I think they pop up on ebay every now and again. I paid £75 for mine, plus around £30 for red oxide, top coats, wire brushes, etc.

If I see any going, I'll let you know.

Cheers,

Jimmy